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UncleMike

I wish there was good news for PVE

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After they announced the 1 island 1 claim system and said they would just copy paste that to PVE but no wartime the forums were full of "please don't do this". I was very vocal in discord about what a bad idea this was but, I knew that they wouldn't develop two claims systems, its too much effort. We (my company) had all but decided to go. In discord I was told to wait and the changes might not be final. Then Dollie solicited a bunch of feedback in discord on PVE, and for a moment I was hopeful. Then we see the captains log today and what we got was...

"We're keeping it how we said in captain's log but we'll keep an eye on it".

I think I got my money's worth out of the game, so I am not here to complain, just to say, farewell. It's clear the direction of this game is PvP and offline raiding and that's totally a fine choice. We tried PVP and we spent all our time defending our tiny base and no time on the water. I dont see that changing significantly, and pve is "Feudal Lord and Serf Simulator 1.0". We've decided to move on, but did enjoy our time here.

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1 minute ago, UncleMike said:

 I was very vocal in discord about what a bad idea this was but, I knew that they wouldn't develop two claims systems, its too much effort.

 I was very vocal in discord about what a bad idea this was but, I knew that they wouldn't develop two claims systems,  for PVE ,  its too much effort.  for PVP...sure.

There..fixed that for ya.

Sorry to see more of the good pve players leaving.  Happy trails and red sunsets, Unclemike.

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Actually, no what I was saying is they will never have 2 claims systems, one for PVP and one for PVE. So I kinda knew whatever system they used in PVP is what PVE would get stuck with.

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Posted (edited)

I'm waiting to try it out 🙂    Test it on the PTR before snapping a conclusion, some things may sound bad, but are actually not as dire when you see it working.

 

I like Atlas, and don't want to see it turn a direction that limits fun to, but I / we have already played through the most challenging period... be silly to give up now, like giving up at the end of a marathon with the finish line just in sight.

Eagerly awaiting the time when test feedback starts filtering through, going to be quite an exciting time reviewing peoples opinions and practical experiences.

Edited by Vorxius
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7 minutes ago, Vorxius said:

I'm waiting to try it out 🙂    Test it on the PTR before snapping a conclusion, some things may sound bad, but are actually not as dire when you see it working.

 

You won't find out on the ptr.  It's only a week and the player numbers are very low.  Everyone's going to get an island, probably, and it'll look great for a week.  Nearly everyone will be very happy, except that we'll all be separated on our own islands and can't talk to our friends.  The real conclusions won't happen till much later on a live server with a larger playerbase.  (If that happens)

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, Vorxius said:

I'm waiting to try it out 🙂    Test it on the PTR before snapping a conclusion, some things may sound bad, but are actually not as dire when you see it working.

 

I like Atlas, and don't want to see it turn a direction that limits fun to, but I / we have already played through the most challenging period... be silly to give up now, like giving up at the end of a marathon with the finish line just in sight.

Eagerly awaiting the time when test feedback starts filtering through, going to be quite an exciting time reviewing peoples opinions and practical experiences.

Except the 1 claim per island system is not something were interested in at all. I don't know why we'd "give it a shot". This is what honestly we've been told in Doscord this whole time waiting for the wipe. "Give it a shot", "Wait and see". But it is clear they are focused on PVP and will just copy whatever system they create over to PVE. That is fine, as a game direction to focus on PVP, I get it, not arguing, it's their game. It's just not the direction I'm heading.

While I do think I got my monies worth. I don't think I'll by another game from this org. 

Edited by UncleMike

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I am interested in it. I want to see what this one island claim system will be like.

But unlike you I don't call myself "we" I know others share my opinion, I know others share your opinion, if they want to speak up they will do so.

Look, I know you will sound less important if you say I rather than we, but if you want intelegent discusion trying to speak for others won't get you very far.

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19 minutes ago, Jack Shandy said:

I am interested in it. I want to see what this one island claim system will be like.

But unlike you I don't call myself "we" I know others share my opinion, I know others share your opinion, if they want to speak up they will do so.

Look, I know you will sound less important if you say I rather than we, but if you want intelegent discusion trying to speak for others won't get you very far.

I think he's talking about himself and his group of friends.

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, Jack Shandy said:

I am interested in it. I want to see what this one island claim system will be like.

But unlike you I don't call myself "we" I know others share my opinion, I know others share your opinion, if they want to speak up they will do so.

Look, I know you will sound less important if you say I rather than we, but if you want intelegent discusion trying to speak for others won't get you very far.

I call myself "We" because if you read my original post, it is me and my company, I'm not speaking for anyone else. You sound less important by not reading. You should try reading.

For context, my original post said "We (my company) had all but decided to go. "

Also could you please define "Intelegent discusion"

Edited by UncleMike
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1 hour ago, UncleMike said:

I call myself "We" because if you read my original post, it is me and my company, I'm not speaking for anyone else.

You can speak for me as well Unclemike, as I share your opinion. I spoke up on this issue enough to sound like a broken record, so I stopped....no one was listening.

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I think there won't be any problems with finding a island with the new system.  The player base will be so small by the time they get it done that there will be plenty of room for everyone.

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You are also speaking for me and my whole crew, UncleMike.  I didn't think to write on discord but I did write here on this forum.  I am wondering if they read this forum since they have so much to read on discord.  Maybe they don't have time to read everything that was written here.

I really did think they would listen to what we were saying. When you have a majority of people who are stating a like or dislike of something, you would think they would take notice. 

Of what I saw here, the majority of the people do not like what they are planning for pve.  The pve building system is broken in Ark and they are going to be doing pretty much the same with the Atlas building system. When you keep doing the same thing over and over and keep getting the same bad result, doesn't that signify insanity? 

I guess we will wait and see but I am having a hard time figuring out how any of this is going to work out for the best.

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Wow, thanks folks, if enough people respond saying they are with us maybe, allthough I've pretty much lost hope. 

I want to be clear, I think something needed to be changed with the existing claim system. I think the change was simple for PVE (not speaking for PVP). Limit number of claims, make them square and not overlap etc, BUT the key was it is clear the solution for PVP doesnt work for PVE, we're just asking to consider that.

Who else do I speak for? 🙂

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Oh the original claim system just didn't work at all for PvE, we built our home as exiles on a lawless island...  and it was there that actually we started enjoying things.  I'm 50/50 with the whole claim a whole island thing.  Half of me wants to test it, perhaps try it and be one of those landlords with 'best interest' for everyone kinda thing.   BUT then I realise I work, have a family, and simply cannot dedicate time per day to get rid of the same old foundation spam by someone hoping, just hoping I lose my mind and not bother...  then you quit your island because it's just too much, and someone then has to take over, and run an island already corrupted by foundation spam.

If lawless is where we again find ourselves, i'm ok with that if someone cannot just build a wall around us, or build fence posts to hold our brig / galleon to ransom..

Will see!

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2 minutes ago, Vorxius said:

Oh the original claim system just didn't work at all for PvE, we built our home as exiles on a lawless island...  and it was there that actually we started enjoying things.  I'm 50/50 with the whole claim a whole island thing.  Half of me wants to test it, perhaps try it and be one of those landlords with 'best interest' for everyone kinda thing.   BUT then I realise I work, have a family, and simply cannot dedicate time per day to get rid of the same old foundation spam by someone hoping, just hoping I lose my mind and not bother...  then you quit your island because it's just too much, and someone then has to take over, and run an island already corrupted by foundation spam.

If lawless is where we again find ourselves, i'm ok with that if someone cannot just build a wall around us, or build fence posts to hold our brig / galleon to ransom..

Will see!

You outlined the reasons well that we discussed too. We considered Lawless and we spent a good amount of time there in PVE until a land claim opened up, we had 2 claims, and we really enjoyed our time there. But no one in our small company wants to come back so I don't think we'll try even Lawless

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I don't think lawless is the answer.  We just need a nice little area to claim that no one else can build on and no one can build anywhere that they are not able to place a claim flag.

Each person is allowed one claim flag.  You can cap a Company at 15 to 20 flags.  No one can build ANYWHERE else. 

This is what I wish they could implement in Ark. Gosh, it sure would solve all that pillaring that is going on over there.

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The way I see it (in PvE) anyway, is that a claimed island would provide some better protection and be a better policed area, but lawless makes far nicer farming and taming spots.  You wont get the tax and free to build a good outpost.   After x amount of time, your base on the claimed island is yours, forever, no one can take it down as long as that initial period has elapsed.

What we're going to do is have a MAIN BASE on a nice clean and good island claim, and a busy farming base in lawless where we actually build our ships..  We know that our stuff will be secure between them.  The only thing we haven't talked about is where we'll keep the materials.  One of the guys in the company said screw bases altogether, and have a house boat.  We'll take our base with us  on our travels.   The only problem there is that anyone sleeping on the boat phases out of it when it's moved, so you'll need a base to log out to, and bed back to the boat when logged in.. or just swallow the death when you logged in, remembering to strip down when you log out in the first place.

A lot of a lot!

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I don't know how it's going to play out, will the landlord be able to demolish at any time? Someone on Discord said only within 24hrs, so what happens if the landlord wants to remove someone griefing etc? Is he/she stuck with them? I don't know how it's going to work out.

I'm taking it the upkeep for your structure is going to be like Rust? Put resources into cupboard and it keeps the base up for say 12hrs 24hr and so on. If people are worried about landlords it will probably be best to get a few people together and plan where you go so you can take an island. Hopefully I get somewhere with a nice landlord. I certainly won't build alot until I get the feel of this person owning the island because I don't want everything gone the next day when I log in.

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Not gonna bother with this game anymore, latest captain's log shows the devs clearly have no interest in PVE, which is fine, it's their game. 

Maybe they realise they simply don't have enough content for PVE so need to insert artificial PVP like mechanics like island claims and a landlord / serf approach to keep things interesting. There's too many other good games out there to try atm to let this game take up the drive space.

I'll check back in 12 months... good luck to all the PVE players sticking with this, hope it works out for you.

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6 hours ago, UncleMike said:

After they announced the 1 island 1 claim system and said they would just copy paste that to PVE but no wartime the forums were full of "please don't do this". I was very vocal in discord about what a bad idea this was but, I knew that they wouldn't develop two claims systems, its too much effort. We (my company) had all but decided to go. In discord I was told to wait and the changes might not be final. Then Dollie solicited a bunch of feedback in discord on PVE, and for a moment I was hopeful. Then we see the captains log today and what we got was...

"We're keeping it how we said in captain's log but we'll keep an eye on it".

I think I got my money's worth out of the game, so I am not here to complain, just to say, farewell. It's clear the direction of this game is PvP and offline raiding and that's totally a fine choice. We tried PVP and we spent all our time defending our tiny base and no time on the water. I dont see that changing significantly, and pve is "Feudal Lord and Serf Simulator 1.0". We've decided to move on, but did enjoy our time here.

Farewell and good luck. We are offski too. Be safe

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I'll give it a try and hopefully I can convince my 4-5 friends I was grouped with to come back and try it out but the devil is really in the details and we have very few at the moment.  Whether or not this system will work will depend on the upkeep cost, tax structure and the landlord's demolish window.  The problem will be that people don't always play on a PTR in the same way they will on live.  For example, the Companies who are going to desire to take an island for their exclusive use (run off other settlers) may not bother with the PTR.  If they want to get useful data out of the PTR I think they need to make it be a relatively small map where there are relatively few islands to claim.  PTR participation in most games is low and if you have a situation where most companies are able to claim an island, you won't get the needed insight into how land owners and land tenants are going to interact to test whether the balance of upkeep, tax, demolish window etc. is in the right ballpark. 

The best thing we can do at this point is get as many people, with as many different play styles as possible into that PTR so we can either prove their approach needs to be adjusted or they can prove to us that we are barking up the wrong tree.

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31 minutes ago, Bandit439 said:

I'll give it a try and hopefully I can convince my 4-5 friends I was grouped with to come back and try it out but the devil is really in the details and we have very few at the moment.  Whether or not this system will work will depend on the upkeep cost, tax structure and the landlord's demolish window.  The problem will be that people don't always play on a PTR in the same way they will on live.  For example, the Companies who are going to desire to take an island for their exclusive use (run off other settlers) may not bother with the PTR.  If they want to get useful data out of the PTR I think they need to make it be a relatively small map where there are relatively few islands to claim.  PTR participation in most games is low and if you have a situation where most companies are able to claim an island, you won't get the needed insight into how land owners and land tenants are going to interact to test whether the balance of upkeep, tax, demolish window etc. is in the right ballpark. 

The best thing we can do at this point is get as many people, with as many different play styles as possible into that PTR so we can either prove their approach needs to be adjusted or they can prove to us that we are barking up the wrong tree.

I hear you, I think the PTR will be a smaller grid and I agree the people who are going to be Evil Landlords likely aren't going to show their colors on the PTR.  Part of me is guessing the PTR will be pvp only, because I do think they want this game to be pvp focused. If its been posted otherwise my bad, but I keep seeing "The PTR" and worry they are only going to have it PVP enabled.  The one claim per island meta just doesn't appeal to my group to even try it out. But I hope you guys do get something useable in the end.

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It could work assuming that you have a high enough scale on additional islands.

For instance you first island is cheap enough that you don't need settlers. But the second should be double the first one and so on. Otherwise there will not be enough islands to go around.

The original issue with the claim system is that there was effectively no upkeep or it's too easily stealable as we saw when the game first released.

The solved the stealable aspect but they need to make it so claims are an investment. It had better be so expensive to hold that second island that companies are here on the forums begging for people to come build there.

Only then will you get people playing nice with taxes and not destroying your stuff.

I've quit playing long before the wipe and I'll not return until I see those posts I mentioned above.

Good luck grapeshot

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Maybe we have to admit the thing, that no one seems to want to give voice to: Atlas is not very interesting for PVE, it is really more of a PVP game. Maybe with 'colonies' platform, there will be eventually a nice mix mode, with PVE and PVP areas. I do not foresee enough endgame environment content continuously generated, to make PVE interesting in the long run. The most important endgame elements are PvP focussed and the end goal is to be a pirate that steals from other players.

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I was talking to somebody about the land claims situation. Person is familiar with Atlas but a much bigger Ark player. The conversation was basically this.

I was playing 16 hours a day every day for like 2 months. I had 1k hours when the wipe was announced. So I am talking to this person about the claims. I was explaining how at this point claims worked that people would basically need to quit for a month to get land and would only have to log in then out to keep it for another month. The upkeep they had was not working to make getting>keeping>losing land cycles in check for PvE. So they needed a harsher upkeep applied to owning land.

So they were going to make the islands all lawless and put this repair machine in to keep your buildings from decaying to death. The problem I saw with this was they would have people blocking resources to kick other players off the island cause they can't repair if they can't get resources.

They decided to change it though which I was thankful for was putting 1 tribe as owner of an island then they have to basically feed the flag based on island size. Which I think is great. Just take freebuild off and make it so the owner has to allow tribes to build. Then the people that don't want to or don't have the ability to feed a flag every 3-5 or whatever days can just build on somebody else's land and they pay taxes to help the land owner. Win/Win

I then started talking about how some people want it to be 1-3 claims per person which would be fair if they added an upkeep cost like owning the island. The only problem is if 1-2 people wanted to they could screw all the tribes on an island by using their claims to block resources. If somebody wants to build on top of the only metal mountain on an island you can't really have a dev say no you need to play how it benefits the other players. So it would lead to problems. So I think the devs see it was the whole island for a tribe is better for the players regardless of big or small tribes.

This person goes and explains to me well Atlas is supposed to be an MMORPG with few real MMORPG features at this point what if they are making the changes in preparation for features that haven't been announced yet?

And at that point my jaw just kinda dropped and I was like damn it might not have anything to do with what people want but what they are designing. So I just kinda sat there humbled. 😕

 

~Lotus

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