Flame Bear Cart Meta Need Changing

[Bandit_Black 46]

Flame bear meta that is currently the go to mechanic needs to be tweaked. I've been meaning to write this for a long time now. Every pvp battle i'm in involves using flame bears to counter flame bears. Its cheesy ( and Ive been in a LOT of pvp battles). There is almost 0 way to kill a bear with out flame. They take little damage from anything but flame arrows/jars. So there is absolutely 0 counter to it. 

Bears are stronger than any animal in the game, combine that with flame cannon and almost invincible unless you have the same setup to counter it. Most all fights on pvp and raids on land are decided by who has the most bears. Also, if hit with flame its almost insta-death, out of touch with any other offense in this game. (Will instantly kill 5 tigers with riders if not more - unkillable with tigers even if the driver is semi competent)

My opinion would be to nerf the liquid flame/and the bear health/damage received. Other idea would be to add the bear traps from ARK to the game to counter the bear carts as well as fix the melee in this game, its weak and worthless except in the water.

Edit: The nature's touch heal is also a serious issue with bear fights, can reheal the bear every too often as it currently is.

Edited March 13, 2019 by Bandit_Black

[koulikov 9]

It's the case since the beginning of the game. You just need to spam bear/tiger to win the PvP battle or AvA battle (animals vs animals).

Players said it's fun PvP so nothing will be change.

When you attack an island, a good technic was to tam directly on this island and then you can flood the ennemy with bear / tiger and other animals you can find. The limit is 800 per company so imagine what you can do

[Bandit_Black 46]

51 minutes ago, koulikov said:

It's the case since the beginning of the game. You just need to spam bear/tiger to win the PvP battle or AvA battle (animals vs animals).

Players said it's fun PvP so nothing will be change.

When you attack an island, a good technic was to tam directly on this island and then you can flood the ennemy with bear / tiger and other animals you can find. The limit is 800 per company so imagine what you can do

Which players said its fun pvp? What are you talking about. Its complete cheese. 

You obviously haven't pvp'ed much or only been doing offline raids, because flame carts are practically unkillable with a good driver.

The whole flame cart thing is completely unbalanced. If you had any experience in pvp you'd know this.

Tigers are terrible. A good flame bear cart will kill 10 tigers with riders without breaking a sweat.

And its not fun pvp by any means, completely out of touch with every other weapon, ammo.

There is a big reason no one uses grapeshot carts. Because liquid flame carts are OP. In fact, just yesterday I murdered a whole clan on just bears and tigers with my flame cart in 3 minutes. Its ridiculous how fast that flame kills everything.

Edited March 13, 2019 by Bandit_Black

[koulikov 9]

Just now, Bandit_Black said:

Which players said its fun pvp? What are you talking about. Its complete cheese. 

You obviously haven't pvp'ed much or only been doing offline raids, because flame carts are practically unkillable with a good driver.

The whole flame cart thing is completely unbalanced. If you had any experience in pvp you'd know this.

Tigers are terrible. A good flame bear cart will kill 10 tigers with riders without breaking a sweat.

And its not fun pvp by any means, completely out of touch with every other weapon, ammo.

There is a big reason no one uses grapeshot carts. Because liquid flame carts are OP. 

You know nothing about PvP.

I did some PvP yesterday in a 1 vs 2 in a lawless.
I have kill one guy and 20 tigers and 10 bears. I have spend 2 hours in a PvA (player vs animal) because the 2 guys just hide in their base after and put their animals in aggressive mode. You call that PvP ? Are you serious ?

It's easy to deal with flame cart when you have ballista so learn how to play.
 

 

 

[DocHolliday 366]

I can't say I like the tame/cart meta in any form.  Hand to hand, firearm and riding a naked tame are fun to me.  Tame running full speed spitting out grapeshot/flame not sure much.  First time i did it I was like hey this is cool its slaughtering people.  After 20 kills in a row its like this is boring.  How long do I have to do this?  It quickly lost its appeal to me because it was easy mode. 

[Captain Jack Shadow 488]

I would like to see battles have more emphasis on player weapons...pistols, swords, etc...  The problem with a game like this is that it's mechanics force an unbalance.  A Vanilla Carbine sucks, but a Legendary or better, and you are one shotting people.  Finding a balance that is fun, challenging, and does not run off the casual players, is near impossible.  But without the casual players, the servers become empty.  Why?  Because the majority of people are casual players.  They have lives outside of the game.  They don't have 40+ hours a week to devote to the game.  So at the point that some people have all the good stuff through BPs and the more casual Companies have very little BP stuff, the game starts dying, because they get tired of being rolled.

The most perfect games see the AVERAGE player seeing a 1 to 1 success-failure ration.  A game like this will have stamina.  It will be around for a long time.  To do this, the best players need to be less successful, and the worst players need to be more successful.  Game mechanics that make this possible are good.  For instance, one game played, ended the ability to quick scope.  When you brought up the scope, it wasn't pointing exactly where the crosshairs were.  Thus you needed to reacquire the target.  It also had a fair amount of sway to the gun when you were standing.  Thus anyone who was dancing around, bringing up their scope and popping people in the head...were definitely cheating, because it simply wasn't possible in the game, just as that would not be possible in real life.  Snipers don't dance around and head shot people a split second after bringing the scope to their eye.  It made the game more fun for everyone, not just the twitch shooters.

[Bandit_Black 46]

I'd like to see more balance with the cart meta, its just way to easy to kill with it compared to any other weapon/skills in the game.

Its way out of balance and anyone honest with themselves that has a lot of big pvp battles will admit this.

Its cheese, you must have bear carts to fight bear carts or you lose. Flame melts players and bears, flame is no different then auto aim in all honestly as the range/spread and damage is way too high.

[Bandit_Black 46]

22 hours ago, koulikov said:

You know nothing about PvP.

I did some PvP yesterday in a 1 vs 2 in a lawless.
I have kill one guy and 20 tigers and 10 bears. I have spend 2 hours in a PvA (player vs animal) because the 2 guys just hide in their base after and put their animals in aggressive mode. You call that PvP ? Are you serious ?

It's easy to deal with flame cart when you have ballista so learn how to play.
 

Sounds like you know nothing. If you actually tell me about a lawless fight. Laweless fights are trashcan pvp buddy as its only tiny clans living there.

My experience to which I reference is top 10 clan pvp. You can deal with 2 nubs in lawless easily yes, but in battles of 20+ player land fights and bear/flame carts decide victory. Go out there with a ballista bear and you'll get smashed unless you get 2 lucky shots off.

 

22 hours ago, koulikov said:

 

 

[Willard 245]

Take a cannon bear/horse, load explosive barrel and oneshot his flame bear and everything around it  

[koulikov 9]

2 hours ago, Bandit_Black said:

 

 

top 10 clan pvp is bear only battle.

It's not true PvP but AvA (animals vs animals).
There is no skill to attack with a horde of bears.

You have never use a sword in this game and you talk about what is PvP ?
Remove all bears/tigers in the game and come in 1 vs 1. I will show you what is true player vs player.

[Bandit_Black 46]

13 minutes ago, koulikov said:

top 10 clan pvp is bear only battle.

It's not true PvP but AvA (animals vs animals).
There is no skill to attack with a horde of bears.

You have never use a sword in this game and you talk about what is PvP ?
Remove all bears/tigers in the game and come in 1 vs 1. I will show you what is true player vs player.

Bear teams, Sniper teams, sea teams, fob teams, mortar control teams. Your not quite right. However best bear team wins the fight and kills everyone but the snipers. You have to snipe the riders or combat with flame carts or you lose, end of story.

Swords suck, only nubs use swords. Again, lawless is for nubs, we all know this.

34 minutes ago, Willard said:

Take a cannon bear/horse, load explosive barrel and oneshot his flame bear and everything around it  

You cannot shoot explosive barrels out of cannons anymore. Plus you'll be cooked with flame before you get a shot aimed and off most likely.

Edited March 14, 2019 by Bandit_Black

[koulikov 9]

21 minutes ago, Bandit_Black said:

Bear teams, Sniper teams, sea teams, fob teams, mortar control teams. Your not quite right. However best bear team wins the fight and kills everyone but the snipers. You have to snipe the riders or combat with flame carts or you lose, end of story.

 

Swords suck, only nubs use swords. Again, lawless is for nubs, we all know this.

You cannot shoot explosive barrels out of cannons anymore. Plus you'll be cooked with flame before you get a shot aimed and off most likely.



I don't see you in the top 10 but you say I am noob ? ok
 

Your sniper is useless. I have never see someone who kill a rider in a 150 players battle but maybe you are the only who have no lags and 60 fps.
You can attack my bear with your weak sniper, there is no problem. You will die quickly.

Please now stop talking to me. Your level is too low.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sneakydude 143]

2 hours ago, koulikov said:

top 10 clan pvp is bear only battle.

It's not true PvP but AvA (animals vs animals).
There is no skill to attack with a horde of bears.

You have never use a sword in this game and you talk about what is PvP ?
Remove all bears/tigers in the game and come in 1 vs 1. I will show you what is true player vs player.

true what? melee is broken and too many hacks to care. Your funny man...

[Captain Jack Shadow 488]

The game needs to focus more on man vs man PvP, and less on bear vs bear.  I wouldn't cry at all if they allowed one player to control up to 10 crew who go in and mimic what you are doing.  If you are cutting down trees with a pick, they do the same.  If you are wacking fiber with a sickle, they do the same, so long as you keep doing it, they do it.  Allow them to carry a high weight if you set them up to do so.  Not an absurd weight, just high weight.  Allow NPCs to be slotted into specialties.  Gatherers are minimum wage workers.  Fighters are high cost.  So an NPC slotted as a gatherer should be very cheap compared to somebody on a cannon.  NPCs on the sails should be somewhere in between.  NPCs not doing anything should be much cheaper.  1 gold per day.

Elephants shouldn't be meta tree gatherers...they should be Meta load haulers.  Bulls, and horses should be next for load hauling.  Bulls haul more weight but slower, and horses haul less but faster.  Lions, Tigers, Wolves and Bears, should not be Meta Fighters, but could be used to increase your force.  However, fire should be like a cross is to vampires.  Animals rightly fear fire, and thus fire should make them flee.  You should not be able to ride these animals, and they should be more of a defensive tactic than offensive.  They should get a buff when in their own settlement, as this is natural for animals to be more aggressive when defending the home turf.

Weapons of all types should be increased in their ability to do harm.  From swords, to Bows, to Pistols, to Carbines, these should all do more damage, but armor should be better at mitigating that damage.  Get rid of the naked zergs.  One shot with a pistol, and one swipe with a sword should be death to a naked zerg.

Make the game more about skill than time in game.  This means making it easier, through commerce, to get the materials to make high end gear, but also mitigate their impact.  You should still want them, but If I never miss a shot, and the other guy is lucky to hit, he shouldn't be winning a fight simply because he is in a Mega that has all high end stuff.  I shouldn't land 5 shots on him, and he misses 5, and then hit one shot and I am dead.  That takes skill completely out of the equation.

It's a tough thing to balance.  You want to make the game interesting by making abilities diverse, but when taken too far, you risk creating a situation of haves and have nots, and the have nots won't stick around long.  They go find another game to play.  Games must have balance, because people won't play a game where they feel their defeat is hard coded into the game.

[Captain Jack Shadow 488]

This is why I believe that if the ability to fight by riding a Bear is not removed, they must increase the fighting ability of Wolves, Tigers, and Lions.  They must have Health and Melee much more inline with the ability of the Bear.

Special abilities of each should be:
Bear - Pulls cannons
Lion - pulls riders off their mount
Tigers - Slash to slow movement
Wolf gets pack buff if up to two other wolves are following.  All three get a buff.

Pretty much what we have, but their total strength needs to be much more balanced.

Remove Greek Fire from the swivel cannon.  Create a new cannon that cannot be mounted on carts, to be used for fire.  Do not allow NPCs to mount cart cannons.

[Sneakydude 143]

NAw i dont agree removing anything or nerfing anything in the game anymore. I do however agree about using tames in a pirate game that is made to look like ark.

Cannons should be used on horses, flames etc.. You can shoot them just as easy. But this is an unrealistic attempt at a pirate game as it is. There has to be some form of pvp on land due to the fact its so frigging laggy. Not counting the ddosing i see going on. What gives?

[Bandit_Black 46]

6 hours ago, Captain Jack Shadow said:

This is why I believe that if the ability to fight by riding a Bear is not removed, they must increase the fighting ability of Wolves, Tigers, and Lions.  They must have Health and Melee much more inline with the ability of the Bear.

Special abilities of each should be:
Bear - Pulls cannons
Lion - pulls riders off their mount
Tigers - Slash to slow movement
Wolf gets pack buff if up to two other wolves are following.  All three get a buff.

Pretty much what we have, but their total strength needs to be much more balanced.

Remove Greek Fire from the swivel cannon.  Create a new cannon that cannot be mounted on carts, to be used for fire.  Do not allow NPCs to mount cart cannons.

I do agree with your ideas. Greek fire is OP in its current form, nothing can be done against it.

Should definitely be toned down or pulled off cart swivels, I can understand grapeshot, grapeshot has a reload. I can understand cannons, they have a reload and mainly for structure damage but long greek fire that instakills all players and tames is out of balance.

 

[Sneakydude 143]

1 hour ago, Bandit_Black said:

I do agree with your ideas. Greek fire is OP in its current form, nothing can be done against it.

Should definitely be toned down or pulled off cart swivels, I can understand grapeshot, grapeshot has a reload. I can understand cannons, they have a reload and mainly for structure damage but long greek fire that instakills all players and tames is out of balance.

 

This is when beta comes in they balance out the melee and other things, we are so far behind this before they (most devs) dabble into it. After the march update i hope they start looking at it and start balancing out stuff for us. But i really REALLY hope they start closing their code down and get better DDOS protections for the servers. But lets see how things go, maybe the servers will start populating regions.

[Bullet Force 151]

On 3/16/2019 at 1:23 PM, Sneakydude said:

This is when beta comes in they balance out the melee and other things, we are so far behind this before they (most devs) dabble into it. After the march update i hope they start looking at it and start balancing out stuff for us. But i really REALLY hope they start closing their code down and get better DDOS protections for the servers. But lets see how things go, maybe the servers will start populating regions.

ARK didn't manage any DDOS protection in 3+ years of development. I don't see this game with its devs doing much better given a lot of them are also ex ARK devs.

[Sneakydude 143]

2 hours ago, Bullet Force said:

ARK didn't manage any DDOS protection in 3+ years of development. I don't see this game with its devs doing much better given a lot of them are also ex ARK devs.

Really? that's frigging sad. For a team that made so much money, and lost so much money they still should have done something for players. 20 dollar game at best

[Captain Jack Shadow 488]

On 3/17/2019 at 1:05 AM, Bullet Force said:

ARK didn't manage any DDOS protection in 3+ years of development. I don't see this game with its devs doing much better given a lot of them are also ex ARK devs.

But...but...ARK is the bestest ever! 

Edited March 19, 2019 by Captain Jack Shadow

[gnihar 111]

On 3/13/2019 at 2:31 PM, Bandit_Black said:

Flame bear meta that is currently the go to mechanic needs to be tweaked. I've been meaning to write this for a long time now. Every pvp battle i'm in involves using flame bears to counter flame bears. Its cheesy ( and Ive been in a LOT of pvp battles). There is almost 0 way to kill a bear with out flame. They take little damage from anything but flame arrows/jars. So there is absolutely 0 counter to it. 

Bears are stronger than any animal in the game, combine that with flame cannon and almost invincible unless you have the same setup to counter it. Most all fights on pvp and raids on land are decided by who has the most bears. Also, if hit with flame its almost insta-death, out of touch with any other offense in this game. (Will instantly kill 5 tigers with riders if not more - unkillable with tigers even if the driver is semi competent)

My opinion would be to nerf the liquid flame/and the bear health/damage received. Other idea would be to add the bear traps from ARK to the game to counter the bear carts as well as fix the melee in this game, its weak and worthless except in the water.

Edit: The nature's touch heal is also a serious issue with bear fights, can reheal the bear every too often as it currently is.

Meta to counter flame bear is Balista bear.

The existence of "metas" alone speak of imbalance. But I don't hold this against the devs. Balance as in the ability to do same thing in different ways is hardest thing to achieve in video games.

But I am positively convinced bear will receive a huge nerf soon.

 

[Bullet Force 151]

On 3/17/2019 at 7:17 PM, Captain Jack Shadow said:

But...but...ARK is the bestest every! 

It had many positive qualities especially with regards to PVP that this game now lacks. A solid design philosophy that knew what its players loved and loathed. That's why it remain ever so popular.

4 hours ago, gnihar said:

Meta to counter flame bear is Balista bear.

The existence of "metas" alone speak of imbalance. But I don't hold this against the devs. Balance as in the ability to do same thing in different ways is hardest thing to achieve in video games.

But I am positively convinced bear will receive a huge nerf soon.

 

TBH the whole cart meta needs to disappear. The devs have made a mistake turning ground combat into who has the most tames. Tames should be there for farming not fighting.

[Spyrit 10]

So you want to nerf fire, when it is something used in naval pvp. We've already had fire arrows nerfed. The flame cannon is facing the rear of the cart, maybe avoid the backend? I had two tigers eat a bear a rider and the cart, they attacked from the front.

[Kast 96]

Swivels should not be usable on bear carts at all; only cannons. The entire mechanic whereby highly mobile pirate-bear Rat Patrol units race around the battlefield is just lunacy. Basically, bears should be limited to moving cannons into position, ideally at walking speed only - think of the bear as a tractor, not some #$^$^@ heavily armed G.I. Joe dune buggy.