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Blackthron

New claim system

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19 minutes ago, gumbyc said:

I was replying to DOCHOLLIDAY's questions regarding being able to destroy things pass the initial period. My quote answered that. The PVE statement dosen't change that.

Ya, it would have been nice to post the entire statement, but I see too many people re-posting enormous sections for no reason. I try to be conservative. 

The PvE statement DOES change that, because it would mean PvE CAN allow destruction past 12 hours, which goes beyond your response.  His question did not specify PvP or PvE, and you only gave him half an answer, the half that was guaranteed for PvP.  That's why I say these things should be completely quoted, because a quote taken out of context can easily be made to appear as something that it isn't.  I understand completely that some people will repost half a book (an exaggeration) as a quote with only 1-2 sentences of their own, and I do agree that it's annoying... But not including all of the information related to a question is nearly as bad as giving the wrong answer, because it makes it appear as though the incomplete answer is complete.

15 minutes ago, Chucksteak said:

Hmm. Found the fly in the ointment. The anti griefing mechanism only applies to the have nots. 

Mayhaps this system wont last long in its current state. Seems just a bit too far fetched to imagine a small group excelling and that was the intention. Them again it all comes down to upkeep. That 2nd island better be god damned cost prohibitive.

There's always going to be griefing in a game like this, unfortunately.  You really can't get around it.  There are some MMO's out there that can effectively separate PvP from PvE in a way where greifing is not possible but... they're based on entirely different game mechanics that allow for that ease of separation.  Atlas, Ark, and most other sandbox survival games just simply can't achieve mechanics that eliminate griefing altogether.  All we can hope for is a system that adequately prevents the worst forms.

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Yes, if your not part of a settlement, I guess you have no anti-griefing recourse. That's why it's important in PVE to own your own land with a claim and have it so no one else can build on it. Boats are a different problem.

Ikarirain: yep

Edited by gumbyc

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1 hour ago, Chucksteak said:

My worry is not witch owner you get. Its rather the owner will be a mega company.

Beyond that, all onwers of any decent island will be a mega company. 

And they will all be allied, officially or not matters little and less.

Why is this my concern? Becuase this is the way it was previously. I was in a mega. Guess who I was not supposed to attack? Pretty much everyone else on the top 10 list. It was a super lame pirate experience almost exclusively attacking much smaller groups who had maybe attacked a ship or said something wrong.

I am hoping that the upkeep is significant, and that every additional Island adds (2) zeros to all upkeep costs. If megas are maxing out claims, add more zeros untill that shit stops. 

 

Sry but I call bs on that. If you were in any "mega", no matter which side you were in, you had pretty much the other half of the server as possible target and no side had the whole top10 list. If you then only attacked smaller groups you have noone but yourself (or your own company) to blame.

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It's total garbage and will drive even more players away, unless of course you're in one of the dev's favourite mega tribes.

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2 hours ago, Rats said:

It's total garbage and will drive even more players away, unless of course you're in one of the dev's favourite mega tribes.

I an happy that someone looks through the fog.

Everything about the new system is just pro megatribe. Devs are just interested into megatribe leaders, not small groups and casual gamers.

The same as it is in ARK

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19 hours ago, Blackthron said:

Let's say, I want to leave there peacefully. Why would I build there something if I know I can't fight back ?

Develop relationships..... this is an MMO relationships, good or bad should define your experience.

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20 hours ago, Blackthron said:

How can I be sure one day you won't get bored from Atlas and you decide to destroy everything. Do you get my point? 

Imho, new system is a disaster.

That is since you look at the system as ‘that is it’. People don’t seem to understand that when this update goes live, we’ll be doing tests and what not and there will be balance changes etc. If there are a lot of people that complain about the destroyed structures, I’m pretty sure they’re gonna do something about it whether it’s added time to delete a structure (like 30 secs per structure to delete by the owner) or have a cap on deleted structures per x amount of hours. 

This update is a great starting point with a lot of potentional. I’m really looking forward to see how it all plays out in the weeks after the wipe. One thing is for sure, that it’s better than it is now. 

If this system doesn’t work out, were gonna have another one and so on. Don’t forget that the whole claiming system defines every piece of the game. Somehow the players think that is something easy to solve or to balance out perfectly. 

Edited by Percieval

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15 hours ago, Chucksteak said:

Can you quote where you read this? I dont remember them saying owners could attack other structures at anypoint after the 12 hour window. But Icould be wrong.

See post from ikarirain in this topic. He quoted that part form captain log

Edited by awakatanka

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1 hour ago, awakatanka said:

See post from ikarirain in this topic. He quoted that part form captain log

Yeah i saw it thanks.

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16 hours ago, Percieval said:

That is since you look at the system as ‘that is it’. People don’t seem to understand that when this update goes live, we’ll be doing tests and what not and there will be balance changes etc. If there are a lot of people that complain about the destroyed structures, I’m pretty sure they’re gonna do something about it whether it’s added time to delete a structure (like 30 secs per structure to delete by the owner) or have a cap on deleted structures per x amount of hours. 

This update is a great starting point with a lot of potentional. I’m really looking forward to see how it all plays out in the weeks after the wipe. One thing is for sure, that it’s better than it is now. 

If this system doesn’t work out, were gonna have another one and so on. Don’t forget that the whole claiming system defines every piece of the game. Somehow the players think that is something easy to solve or to balance out perfectly. 

You just proven my point. There are 0 reasons to trust owner of your island. And no limits will help. How 30s destruction timer gonna help? I just dont understand. I am not wasting day/weeks/months of my time building on someone's island. Neither my guild. 

All they had to do is make a hard cap on claim flags and add upkeep in any form. Thats it!! But no.. lets wipe the server, introduce broken system.. and then wonder why players are not coming back... 

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5 hours ago, Blackthron said:

You just proven my point. There are 0 reasons to trust owner of your island. And no limits will help. How 30s destruction timer gonna help? I just dont understand. I am not wasting day/weeks/months of my time building on someone's island. Neither my guild. 

All they had to do is make a hard cap on claim flags and add upkeep in any form. Thats it!! But no.. lets wipe the server, introduce broken system.. and then wonder why players are not coming back... 

Man. I made a clear point, you completely ignored it and went on rampage number 5. Anything in this post doesn’t change anything to what I said. I literally said ‘We’ll go from there’ and you already proving my first sentence. Gheheh. 

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Quote

 

Well, lack of trust is justified in many cases. Plus, my ego can not stand being ruled by an overlord, for I am the one who leads. I am a natural alpha but momentarily lack the manpower to seriously clash with zerg.

The best option for my type of mentality is living on lawless and defying being ruled by zerg, and slowly building my own empire from there.

Hopefully I shall get a chance to build on lawless and one day launch an invasion into a nice claimed. And if ever that happens, don't worry, I am also a benevolent dictator, like Lotus said. ha-ha!👍

Edited by gnihar

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19 hours ago, Percieval said:

Man. I made a clear point, you completely ignored it and went on rampage number 5. Anything in this post doesn’t change anything to what I said. I literally said ‘We’ll go from there’ and you already proving my first sentence. Gheheh. 

Dont you understand? Your 'we will see and go from there..' has triggired me. 

What if everything will go wrong? What you will be saying then? 

I dont mind changes... but this... this is a waste of everybody's time. Be couse they will have to make another major re-do on main mechanics(claiming) and mb another wipe.. 

 

Edited by Blackthron

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2 hours ago, Blackthron said:

Dont you understand? Your 'we will see and go from there..' has triggired me. 

What if everything will go wrong? What you will be saying then? 

I dont mind changes... but this... this is a waste of everybody's time. Be couse they will have to make another major re-do on main mechanics(claiming) and mb another wipe.. 

 

Nice assumption based off of nothing you got there. You’re trying to troll me? Until now a lot, if not any changes have improved the game, except for the animals nerf. So stop being this damn pessimistic, I’m not sure if that’s your personality or you can look into the future, mine are based off of assumptions made throughout the course of the last few months. Come on man. 

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Nothing personal man. Im pissed off by devs. And no, I can't see future, but I was following another full loot one-world(server) mmo. And I see ... I saw this before... devs were criticized for some changes but instead of tweaking what already works, they delete/rewrite the whole mechanic/feature and wipe the server. 4 times a year. 

Its okay if devs said on release something like 'Guys, it is alpha. We plan to do a wipe or two after we see how main mechanics/features work" 

But they never said that and I think its okay to assume there will be no wipes etc. What they did was a nice cash grab. And now this game is hobby for them, not work.

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4 hours ago, Blackthron said:

Nothing personal man. Im pissed off by devs. And no, I can't see future, but I was following another full loot one-world(server) mmo. And I see ... I saw this before... devs were criticized for some changes but instead of tweaking what already works, they delete/rewrite the whole mechanic/feature and wipe the server. 4 times a year. 

Its okay if devs said on release something like 'Guys, it is alpha. We plan to do a wipe or two after we see how main mechanics/features work" 

But they never said that and I think its okay to assume there will be no wipes etc. What they did was a nice cash grab. And now this game is hobby for them, not work.

Well in my head it is NOT okay to assume there won’t be any wipes in an Alpha EA game with that big of a map and that has very ‘complex’ mechanics. That’s just my opinion. 

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4 hours ago, Blackthron said:

Nothing personal man. Im pissed off by devs. And no, I can't see future, but I was following another full loot one-world(server) mmo. And I see ... I saw this before... devs were criticized for some changes but instead of tweaking what already works, they delete/rewrite the whole mechanic/feature and wipe the server. 4 times a year. 

Its okay if devs said on release something like 'Guys, it is alpha. We plan to do a wipe or two after we see how main mechanics/features work" 

But they never said that and I think its okay to assume there will be no wipes etc. What they did was a nice cash grab. And now this game is hobby for them, not work.

"This Early Access game is not complete and may or may not change further. If you are not excited to play this game in its current state, then you should wait to see if the game progresses further in development."

 

What do you mean they never said that? That quote is from the very top of the steam page. It was there when I bought the game. "This Early Access game is not complete and may or may not change further. If you are not excited to play this game in its current state, then you should wait to see if the game progresses further in development."

 

That seems clear to me. I understand you are upset, but to claim they never warned you is nonsense. It also says right at the top it is an EA game, with a planned 2 year out dev cycle. Despite what people think this is not even a beta, this game is more like a late alpha. And yet most of the people seem to think it is done already. It is not.

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Well.. cant really argue with that..  but we all know these alpha releases... they hype it like it is official release day. And if everything goes well there will be no wipe. If not... "hey guys, remember it's only an early access". 

Imho, if it is an early access then there should be a 100% wipe on release day. And that should be mentioned somewhere. If it's not - I assume there will be no wipe. 

Aaaanyway.. they have sold enough copies to make couple mil. bucks.. so it doesn't matter what I, we, want. Pretty sure they dont want me back after wipe... they got my money already.

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I think they want you back. I know I as a player want you back, the game is only fun if people play it. But I understand some people are upset and I do understand why. 

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What I dont understand: They wanted to do something against griefing... well... in the old system you set a claim flag and you could only build in there. And in the new system you can build everywhere - as long as the settlement owner allows you to build on his land...

so the new system makes griefing easier and supports it...    so whats the point?

And:

I can't see what the big problem with the old claim system is, so that the devs have to totaly change this system...  (and hence wipe all) 

If it is, because ppl didnt get land to build, I have to say, that in our sector a lot of land was free. It was claimed by the biggest company there, but if you asked them, you could claim a piece of land... and so time after time the island grows to a nice comunity with a lot of different companys which were able to defend together against big companys...  The only thing is, it takes time so that ppl start to talk to each other, develop diplomacy, aliances and so on .... but to wipe now interrups the development... 

 So I dont get it: why devs have to stop this claim system and change it completely instead of improve the old system (perhaps a limit of claimflags)?

In the new system landowners will also be the biggest company in the sector and you will have to follow their rules, or they destroy you... but that's not new... (at least on pvp - PVE I dont know)

So - again - i dont understand the necessity of the claim system change.... I cannot see what positive innovations the new system will bring...

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3 hours ago, pzzuii said:

What I dont understand: They wanted to do something against griefing... well... in the old system you set a claim flag and you could only build in there. And in the new system you can build everywhere - as long as the settlement owner allows you to build on his land...

so the new system makes griefing easier and supports it...    so whats the point?

And:

I can't see what the big problem with the old claim system is, so that the devs have to totaly change this system...  (and hence wipe all) 

If it is, because ppl didnt get land to build, I have to say, that in our sector a lot of land was free. It was claimed by the biggest company there, but if you asked them, you could claim a piece of land... and so time after time the island grows to a nice comunity with a lot of different companys which were able to defend together against big companys...  The only thing is, it takes time so that ppl start to talk to each other, develop diplomacy, aliances and so on .... but to wipe now interrups the development... 

 So I dont get it: why devs have to stop this claim system and change it completely instead of improve the old system (perhaps a limit of claimflags)?

In the new system landowners will also be the biggest company in the sector and you will have to follow their rules, or they destroy you... but that's not new... (at least on pvp - PVE I dont know)

So - again - i dont understand the necessity of the claim system change.... I cannot see what positive innovations the new system will bring...

They changed it because the old system was hot garbage and almost no one liked it. Only the "hardcore" PvO liked that system. It was a terrible system that drove players away in mass. The new system encourages actual PvP.  They also are adding new islands cant do that without a wipe. They are also getting rid of the tons of duped items still on the official servers. 

If you can not see the positives perhaps you are one of the "hardcore" PvO players. The wipe is good.

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Hmm... 

The only thing you do is to insult me - I am NOT a PVO Player - dont know how you think you know this about me.... its wrong!

I just tried to ask in a constuctive way which positive innovations the new system will bring?! To me I dont see any improvements... How does the new system encourages actual PVP as you said? 

If you say that u dont like the old system it is fine to me, but dont tell me you know that NO ONE liked it! You should not speak for everyone! Before the devs announced the wipe there were playing about 12000 - 15000 ppl enjoying the game every day - and for sure these ppl were definitive not all PVO hardcore players... 

All I wanted to say is, that to improve the old system would make more sense to me than totaly change it... sure it had its flaws but the new one isn't perfect either... 

So please tell me, what on the old claim system is so " hot garbage" and why do you think it is such "a terrible system" ? 

 

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2 hours ago, SIEGEGUN said:

They changed it because the old system was hot garbage and almost no one liked it. Only the "hardcore" PvO liked that system. It was a terrible system that drove players away in mass. The new system encourages actual PvP.  They also are adding new islands cant do that without a wipe. They are also getting rid of the tons of duped items still on the official servers. 

If you can not see the positives perhaps you are one of the "hardcore" PvO players. The wipe is good.

Wrong. The majority of folks like it and were actively playing the game not going on this forum and crying.

The new system does everything but encourage PVP. In fact it actively discourages it by making it very expensive to buy into (war tokens are not cheap) and by limiting PVP to only a few hours per day as well as removing the element of surprise that attackers would normally have. It's a system essentially designed to hinder PVP.

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2 minutes ago, Bullet Force said:

limiting PVP to only a few hours per day as well as removing the element of surprise that attackers would normally have. It's a system essentially designed to hinder PVP.

9+ hours per day is plenty of time. They can adjust that and have said they may. 

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11 minutes ago, pzzuii said:

Hmm... 

The only thing you do is to insult me - I am NOT a PVO Player - dont know how you think you know this about me.... its wrong!

I just tried to ask in a constuctive way which positive innovations the new system will bring?! To me I dont see any improvements... How does the new system encourages actual PVP as you said? 

If you say that u dont like the old system it is fine to me, but dont tell me you know that NO ONE liked it! You should not speak for everyone! Before the devs announced the wipe there were playing about 12000 - 15000 ppl enjoying the game every day - and for sure these ppl were definitive not all PVO hardcore players... 

All I wanted to say is, that to improve the old system would make more sense to me than totaly change it... sure it had its flaws but the new one isn't perfect either... 

So please tell me, what on the old claim system is so " hot garbage" and why do you think it is such "a terrible system" ? 

 

Don't worry he calls anyone that doesn't agree with him and anyone that expresses love for PVP a "PVO" player. You have to remember you are talking to someone that got so destroyed and completely obliterated on the official servers that he has felt the need to spend the last few weeks on this forum demanding the game be made easier for him. He will blame offline raiding today and tomorrow it will be some other excuse but a bad player remains a bad player.

1 minute ago, DilBert said:

9+ hours per day is plenty of time. They can adjust that and have said they may. 

You have to factor in different time zones. On paper it might look smooth but reality is different.

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