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Xenom

My take on the claim rework

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hey all,

as i guess the new settlement claims are not subject to change i want to at least write how i think  the rework could work - doubt it will how it is currently laid out. playing on PvP i do not really see a need for them on PvE but maybe there is future plans for them like mob raids or something so let's just asume they will matter sooner or later.

 

1) Purpose of settlement claims and their owner should be for sorting out the overall island stuff like...

-set tax on pvp (no tax on pve) 

-set raid window for offline protection on pvp (pve raids later on?)

-accept/deny company claims (see below)

-war declaration stuff

-future island stuff you might come up to that doesn't work on the old claim level

 

2) Keep current claims - how? why?

-current claims should only work on settlement islands and the settlement owner has to accept/deny claim requests - seriously this 12h or whatever timer on building is just an explosive barrel of griefing. company claims would be a "sub claim" below the settlement claim so the island owner can distribute the land - no 12h of destruction, accept or deny, accept = you can build and it's yours until destroyed!

-limit claims to 2 or 3 per player

-limit max claims per company to like 50-100 max or whatever number fits the world remake

-claims that have no npc's/player's of owner company in it for a set time will start to decay (keep in mind small companies go on holidays!) make it so if nothing is build this goes faster, when buildings are in it make it like 3 weeks, npc's/players in it will prevent decay, the more claims you have the faster it decays - basically what you did with claiming timer right now (was a good idea btw).

-why keep them? without any claims the griefing will just get out of hand, claims were perfectly fine for marking your spot where you can build whatever you want and you know the borders where you can build and no other one could...without someone will ruin your base with pillars or other stupid stuff, stuck you boat, tames or whatever in pillars just because he can - really devs just don't remove the old claims. the only problem with the old claims was: no limit and no decay/despawning when inactive. a lot of ppl are just kind persons will help each other, work together, attack and defend and play the game like it's meant to be played but there is enough that will just grief the hell out of everybody they can if they can. don't open pillar spam online, just pls don't ^^

 

3) tax situation - a lot do not really like the idea to only pay taxes to the island owner - maybe this can be changed a bit tho i personally do not mind to pay tax if the owner is actively defending and helping the smaller companies on his island (on pvp that is:P) - really depends how the island community is but i doubt most are as pleasent as the one i am in.

-whatever tax is set 1/3 of it goes to the company claim owner if someone is harvesting in your claims - just so it doesn't feel too one sided as living on an island will also decease the upkeep for the island owner anyways

 

all in all this would be how i would do it and thought i leave this here for discussion - maybe i am just totally wrong but i just can't see the rework work as proposed. tho my hope for a non NGE remake is kinda dwindling right now - whatever it will be like, thanks devs for the super fun hours that melted away from christmas until the announcement - wasn't having such a blast in quite a long time 🙂 for me you had it perfectly right besides some tweaks ^^

 

P.S. Don't wipe chars! 🙂 

Edited by Xenom

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one more thing...i really tried to think about PvE servers after wwriting this as my experience/take on the claims is froma  PvP standpoint only....but just can't think of any benefit for settlements on PvE. maybe it would be best to remove them there all together.

 

just my 2 cents 😛

 

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As an alternate plan or in addition to the PVE system consider:

I believe everyone wants land they can call their own. They don’t want someone else to be able to destroy any of it and don’t want ruthless players to be GM’s. If there are no land owners and settlements, there is no need for taxes. Everyone will be tax free so their hard work doesn’t go to someone else, or even the common good.  If there are those who want to be in a community let’s make  one or two of each lawless section a community build area where there can be smaller claim areas, which can be turned into towns, and have elected town leaders.

All claimed area will be square. Not round. This will prevent overlap to protect and useless circular build areas.

When you join the game for the first time you get one claim flag to use where you want (except lawless). Part of your claimed area must be on land. Your claimed area can overlap with someone else earlier claim however the part that overlaps is not usable by you. You can un-claim the land and receive another claim flag to be used somewhere else, when you do that, all structures in that claim area becomes harvest-able and that area can be re-claimed by someone else. You will have a resource box on the claimed lands which upon lack of use the structures will start to decay. You cannot build on someone else’s claim and in PVP the only time you can attack or raid that area is when that player is anywhere in game. After a predetermined time limit not in game all structures including boats owned will decay rapidly. 

If someone wants to expand their claim they can purchase additional claims at a Freeport vendor, for say 50,000 gold each. The overlapping rules still apply to the purchased claim. 

Players can have alliances. If that alliance wants to unite together in a new area, all the individual claims will go to the alliance and the claims previously owned by those players will be un-claimed. I would limit the number of company alliances to maybe 5 to 10. The new alliance, if by 10 players, 10 claim, the alliance can temporarily claim 10 adjacent areas (if available) in a new location. This allows for sharing of resources.

To prevent Griefing like TANCHYON experienced recently, allow boats to pass through anything, except islands (from MR PUTTS). I would add except shipyards and other boats. If someone blockades someone by boat or boats, the boats can be pushed without damage to any, to make way and to escape. All of the boats that are pushed will return to their original position. I would also suggest as another player mentioned a long time ago to extend the reach of anchoring to any 1st blue area around an island for galleon and brigs. This would allow boats to anchor beyond the areas that structures can be built from the bottom up.

I know there are smarter people and planners out there. Help us to come up with better ideas, and post them.

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Keep the old claim system! Maybe limit claimflags per person! Later in games lifetime u can introduce a election - system, where the island can elect a gouverneur and he can select the raid protection time and is responsible for playershops or building a city on the island or something like that...  As long as there is no gouverneur the raiding time is fixed on the island maybe from 4 pm till 12am. 

But to be honest - first of all the dmg and the structure hitpoints have to be balanced, means that a single bear with cannon can destroy a whole base in a few minutes - like McGyver - blasts everything away with a spoon and a chewinggum 😮 and some annoying things should be fixed (like stucking in animals while running through the wood, not finding the "climb up" point, while in water, NPCs falling through the shipdecks etc)

 

But if it is not possible to keep the old claim system: I agree Xenom

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With all the problems ( and there are many ) I don’t think anything is as important as having a place to build a base and start sailing. I wish there was more discussion on the claiming system which   It is said you can’t please everybody however it seems with the new claiming changes you can’t please any of the people all of the time. I don’t know if anyone will like the changes. 

If you do, tell me why. 

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10 hours ago, pzzuii said:

Keep the old claim system! Maybe limit claimflags per person! Later in games lifetime u can introduce a election - system, where the island can elect a gouverneur and he can select the raid protection time and is responsible for playershops or building a city on the island or something like that...  As long as there is no gouverneur the raiding time is fixed on the island maybe from 4 pm till 12am. 

But to be honest - first of all the dmg and the structure hitpoints have to be balanced, means that a single bear with cannon can destroy a whole base in a few minutes - like McGyver - blasts everything away with a spoon and a chewinggum 😮 and some annoying things should be fixed (like stucking in animals while running through the wood, not finding the "climb up" point, while in water, NPCs falling through the shipdecks etc)

 

But if it is not possible to keep the old claim system: I agree Xenom

the strongest pirate wins, there is no election for a gouverneur.. yarr harr!

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On 3/12/2019 at 7:44 AM, Arykos said:

the strongest pirate wins, there is no election for a gouverneur.. yarr harr!

that might the pirate lord then 🙂  he could distrubute the rum according to the amount of bounty brought home ^^ in the long run i aso think that more buildings like the lighthouse...maybe townslots so you could build a little pirate town where you can set up shops, get missions or whatnot and that needs someone to decide what to do would be a nice addition...still way way off i guess 🙂

for the current problems i think that having no option to "mark" your land with a claim or something of that sort and relying on some island owner to destruct stuff in a timely manner is not a good solution. no more offline raiding but offline building nonsense directly in front of someones base or ship is as bad and to be expected 🙂 moreover i will miss all the nicely done flags and the welcoming territory messages 🙂

 

Edited by Xenom

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I don't like the idea of one owning the whole island and required to be a game monitor at the same time. Too much control over others. Regardless my question is when someone builds on the settlement with no borders to their base, what happens when one person encroaches on someone else's base? 

Lets face it, some of the island are huge and the owner/owner's will be playing the game and not too concerned with destroying structures or too involved with player to player squabbles. In addition to the 12 hours window or destroying thing manually, it going to require a lot of play time to manage. Also, if the owner of the island is a company with many players, are those powers going to given to all the players in that company? If so chaos.

The other thing that pisses me off is no alliances in PVE, because they can "game the system" , whatever that means. They are allowed in PVP but not PVE. Really don't under stand that.

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On 3/11/2019 at 2:18 PM, Xenom said:

one more thing...i really tried to think about PvE servers after wwriting this as my experience/take on the claims is froma  PvP standpoint only....but just can't think of any benefit for settlements on PvE. maybe it would be best to remove them there all together.

 

just my 2 cents 😛

 

Here's a few Pro for it in PVE.
1: Pillar/Foundations greifing spam prevention. (Belive me I've been victim of it under the Old Claim system other co placing foundation right at the border of you claim where you have good resource to stop them from showing up. They claim next to you just to do that and literraly don't build. Owning a whole island will prevent that.
2: In PVE lots of Company Traded resources/animals. Having a settlement with a Trade outpost will enhance that by enableling you to keep trading while offline.
 

Final note the problem in Land saturation for PVE was always the fact we had unlimited flag to place not that we could own land. Humans have a greedy nature and with no hold barred they will take all they can. That said the captain log 23 mentioned that the LIMIT will be substantially lower in PVE and it should be since those claim can't be taken down in war an only from failing at upkeep.

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why should the player that built their tax bank first and planted flag get to decide where i play and on what island and grid?

none of us signed up to be told how and where we play by other players that have paid the exact same as we did , 

this system they have planned is fucking joke of a system , from a pve players view at least on pvp u can blow the crap out other players and take their island from them 

Edited by UDO

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25 minutes ago, UDO said:

why should the player that built their tax bank first and planted flag get to decide where i play and on what island and grid?

none of us signed up to be told how and where we play by other players that have paid the exact same as we did , 

this system they have planned is fucking joke of a system , from a pve players view at least on pvp u can blow the crap out other players and take their island from them 

Lawless region will still be there if you prefer that but you'll have to deal with the pillar/foundation spamers. And the New claim system is meant to encourage you to accept people on your island if you don't want them you'll have to work harder to pay upkeep. That said if you ever played ARK PVE was a nightmare being only lawless Some tribe owned entire server by just putting pillars foundations everywhere. I don't want ATLAS to turn into that. Most PVE players in ARK played on their own private server due to that. With ATLAS is different cause having the full map requires to to be bloody rich IRL to host all the Hardware required or even rent it. Therefore Having both option Lawless regions for player like you who don't want to live under a Settlement and Claim Regions for other like me sound good to me.

Edit: I just hope for people that will choose to play in Lawless that they will still include that new Auto-Maintenance structure for you to have away time to enjoy. In the current state Lawless if you go offline more than 3 days anyone can destroy your hard work.

Edited by Lorien

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i personally found the old claim system to be a quite good solution. it was even less of a problem on PvP but sure the no limit on how many claims you can place and/or no upkeep  was the reason it was flawed to some extend.

i do not really see the reason for the island wide claims besides to make sure you do not have 100 different offline raid protection times per island for every claim there is which makes sense. so i guess that's a big reason why they go for it which is ok as long you do not remove the current claim system completly. besides there is a need for this on PvP these are all things that do not play any role on PvE - so a limit of claims would have been all that is needed there and then maybe the island claim for offline protection time on PvP. so all in all this rework seems a lot too complicated for the solutions that were needed.

Edited by Xenom
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I like what some other player said in that when you start the game you get a claim flag. Make the claims square not round. Make it so you can buy other claims at Freeport. Other that that, other details can be worked out.

I hope the DEV's are reading all the posts. Their decisions affect hundreds of players in game and out.

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yeah let's see what kind of feedback makes it into to final version of the remake...let's hope they will see what issues will come if they push it thru like they described it. i think there is quite a few good suggestions around while most agree that the rework as described as of now will create some serious problems.

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15 hours ago, Lorien said:

Lawless region will still be there if you prefer that but you'll have to deal with the pillar/foundation spamers. And the New claim system is meant to encourage you to accept people on your island if you don't want them you'll have to work harder to pay upkeep. That said if you ever played ARK PVE was a nightmare being only lawless Some tribe owned entire server by just putting pillars foundations everywhere. I don't want ATLAS to turn into that. Most PVE players in ARK played on their own private server due to that. With ATLAS is different cause having the full map requires to to be bloody rich IRL to host all the Hardware required or even rent it. Therefore Having both option Lawless regions for player like you who don't want to live under a Settlement and Claim Regions for other like me sound good to me.

Edit: I just hope for people that will choose to play in Lawless that they will still include that new Auto-Maintenance structure for you to have away time to enjoy. In the current state Lawless if you go offline more than 3 days anyone can destroy your hard work.

cant keep using there is always lawless as an excuse for a poorly thought out system ,

 

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