Landlords and GMs

[Winter Thorne 696]

11 minutes ago, CazzT said:

I would not classify that as GM.  Quite the contrary, actually.  Most games with claim systems don't allow non-members o build in the claim area at all without permissions of the claim being set to allow it.  This is just giving claim owners more control over their land.  That's not GM level, just a different way to handle he claim feature than other games.

Most games don't  limit claims to 10% of the server population though.   And I'd agree that if every player got a claim, those permissions wouldn't be anything like a GM, but they don't.    So you've set up a system where you're using 10% of the players to (hopefully) control bad behavior by the other 90%.  That's more like junior GMs.

8 minutes ago, Willard said:

Landowner can demolish your stuff because it´s his land not because he is a GM. 

 

It's not "his" land really though.  If that were true then you couldn't claim that in this system everyone can have land, which is what the devs are saying about it.  So they have this new system where everyone can have land and build everywhere, but the players wanted to know what would happen with the pillar spam.  So there are landlords who get to control the land for everyone. 

I guess you could put it this way -  either this is a game where hardly anyone gets to have land, the landlords own it, and nobody else gets any.  (In which case, they're not junior GMs, they just get to own all the land).  But they can tell you what to build, where to build it, and demolish your stuff.  Or they can tell everybody nothing at all and let everyone grief each other.  Or they could be nice guys.  Who knows?  It's luck of the draw.  Explained like this, there won't be an increase in the playerbase any time soon.

 

or  we can say this is a game where everybody gets to have land, and to prevent the problems we all know would arise, they've put landlords in charge of all the land to police it, and given them limited powers to enforce whatever behavior they like.  (Junior GMs)

In the end you can call them whatever you want, but it comes down to the same thing - a small subset of players being given control over other players with no oversight.  Sounds like Junior GMs to me.

[CazzT 68]

2 minutes ago, Winter Thorne said:

It's not "his" land really though.

If he claimed the land, how is it not his land?

I think there's a breakdown in communication going on.

3 minutes ago, Winter Thorne said:

So you've set up a system where you're using 10% of the players to (hopefully) control bad behavior by the other 90%.  That's more like junior GMs.

The system isn't being set up with the purpose of controlling others, though.  That's why it's not a GM.

5 minutes ago, Winter Thorne said:

a small subset of players being given control over other players with no oversight.

So.... clan leaders/guild masters.  But I don't think you're using GM to mean guild master.

[MrHeid 79]

3 hours ago, Winter Thorne said:

Oh..thanks for explaining.  It's because there are even fewer "claims" available after this change than there were before.  Around 500 total, more or less, so we don't all have the option to be a landlord.  On a decently loaded server (depending on how many come back, how many new players, etc.), less than 10% will have the option to be a landlord.

Not true. At least on PVE.  There is only like 500-1000 active players I bet.  Many of those would be in the same company.  Claims are based on companies and size but I am guessing that a company with 50 people would be able to claim much less land then 50 individual players.  Most if not all determined players will get a claim if they want it.  

[Winter Thorne 696]

55 minutes ago, CazzT said:

If he claimed the land, how is it not his land?

I think there's a breakdown in communication going on.

I think much of that breakdown is not between the 2 of us, and at least part of it is deliberate.  That's why I brought up that statement that everyone can "have" land.  

1.  Players complain that they can't get claims and they want to have land.

2.  Devs "take all our feedback into consideration", knowing full well what those players mean is that they want to own a piece of land.  They want something they can control, that other people can't mess with.

3.  Devs don't want to or can't give everyone their own claim.  So in an effort to keep everyone happy they put together this new system and but instead of saying  "Only 10% of you get land, but everyone can build", they say all players can "have" land.

4.  Many players think they get land now.    They do!  (But by "get", they think they control it)  Landlords and devs know they really don't.  This won't end well.  The Devs are hoping the landlords will just handle it, and the problem will go away.  (Which is where they begin to become GM-like.  They are supposed to be handling in-game problems caused by the devs and the other players in an effort to keep players happy)

SO....because the phrasing of "having" land gets confusing, let's get past that and  just  rephrase it this way:

Who is responsible for making sure players don't grief other players?  Grapeshot is, either through mechanics or customer service (GMs).  With this new system, who is responsible for making sure players don't grief other players in regards to land?  Landlords are.  In return they get to control a piece of land.  (Not really, but many of them don't know that yet)  I don't see how you can't call them some form of GMs, especially since there's no complimentary program of in-game GMs being announced.

1 hour ago, CazzT said:

The system isn't being set up with the purpose of controlling others, though.  That's why it's not a GM.

So.... clan leaders/guild masters.  But I don't think you're using GM to mean guild master.

Grapeshot expects the landlords to control the pillar and spam issue on claimed land.  That came out of the backlash to what always happens when you do "build everywhere".  That's why we have landlords now.

If a player willingly puts himself under the control of a clan leader, that's up to him..   For the game company to put you under the control of another player, that's a GM.

[Winter Thorne 696]

3 minutes ago, MrHeid said:

Not true. At least on PVE.  There is only like 500-1000 active players I bet.  Many of those would be in the same company.  Claims are based on companies and size but I am guessing that a company with 50 people would be able to claim much less land then 50 individual players.  Most if not all determined players will get a claim if they want it.  

You have to assume that people come back, new players start, etc.  Otherwise we won't have a game to be arguing about here.  

You can't design the system just to fit a snapshot in time.  If the server is meant to hold X number of players, and you need to have 5000 players to survive, then it's got to work for at least 5000 players.

[wildbill 142]

35 minutes ago, Winter Thorne said:

You have to assume that people come back, new players start, etc.  Otherwise we won't have a game to be arguing about here.  

You can't design the system just to fit a snapshot in time.  If the server is meant to hold X number of players, and you need to have 5000 players to survive, then it's got to work for at least 5000 players.

Yes, very good point. A lot of people are not working the numbers correctly.

Say you have an average of 5,000 people online at any one time. 60% or more are officials, so cut that 4 ways, you get maybe 1,500 per official server logged in at any one time. Now assume the average player is online 1/10 of each day, you have 15,000 players per server.

There is no system you can devise that will allow 15,000 (or maybe more) players to have their own island. Probably no system that will allow them even 5 claims each. maybe not even 1 claim each (of the old type of circular claim). Hence, the landlord system (I'm guessing). 

The real problem here is that we have a pirate game, which you would hope would revolve around ships, but in fact is all about bases and resources, so the whole land claim system in a persistent world, no matter how big the map is really a difficult problem to solve!

[awakatanka 73]

The landowner can also deny others to build at all and only his company can build I read in another topic and jat  confirmed it. They need to pay the upkeep by them shelf. Is it smart...? That is on them.

So what happens when he decides that after 2 our 3 months do all others lose there buildings?

Edited March 11, 2019 by awakatanka

[Chucksteak 279]

So no one seems to have remembered this, but you CAN take away someones claim like 9 hours a day. Or so it is implied. So its not like first land owner is all time land owner.

The land owner only has some 12 hour window to take down your structures or they would have to attack it. So the whole gm thing is hyperbolic.

Why they didnt keep it simple and fix all the issues at once is beyod me. Becuase its just too simple:

1. 2 claims and 2 beds per person. Claims are shared with the company, beds are personal use only. No taxation nonsense, no owner master sentiments, no issues where there isnt land available.

2. Leader board objectives changed to somthing siege like and involving gold ruins servers. (Sea castle where you collect 2% global taxes or get a dragon token or something)

Also, this map/game can't handle 15,000 players. Id say 5000 maximum at any time on a full grid. Any more than that and there really just isnt the room to move about. Let alone the servers would just melt, its bad. And Atlad isnt the only game struggling to get over 100 players on a server with UR4 either.

[CazzT 68]

3 hours ago, Winter Thorne said:

Grapeshot expects the landlords to control the pillar and spam issue on claimed land. 

Where have Jat or Dollie said this?  Or anyone from WC/GS?

[Winter Thorne 696]

10 hours ago, CazzT said:

Where have Jat or Dollie said this?  Or anyone from WC/GS?

Nearly all the players have said they hate the spamming.

They've added a "build anywhere" design which spreads the spamming problem from lawless to claimed land.   They've added game mechanics for landlords to control spamming, if they wish.  They've not added any game mechanics that just automatically prevent people from spamming.

Now when spamming happens on claimed land, whose fault is that?

Is it not obvious?

13 hours ago, Chucksteak said:

So no one seems to have remembered this, but you CAN take away someones claim like 9 hours a day. Or so it is implied. So its not like first land owner is all time land owner.

Only on pvp.  On Pve you can't take away someone's claim.

[UDO 361]

11 hours ago, CazzT said:

Where have Jat or Dollie said this?  Or anyone from WC/GS?

are u really just trolling now

 

, what do u think the purpose of the landlord is? given powers to demolish structures for 12 hours plus = mini gm , it will be up to the landlord to manage the structure spam , especially over resource, noone else is going too , not with this new system , 

the system we have now works well, just needed limits to the amount of flags we could place 

Edited March 12, 2019 by UDO

[CazzT 68]

5 hours ago, Winter Thorne said:

Nearly all the players have said they hate the spamming.

They've added a "build anywhere" design which spreads the spamming problem from lawless to claimed land.   They've added game mechanics for landlords to control spamming, if they wish.  They've not added any game mechanics that just automatically prevent people from spamming.

Now when spamming happens on claimed land, whose fault is that?

Is it not obvious?

Let me simplify this for you since you're not getting it...

 

Where have Jat, Dollie, or anyone from WC/GS said that the owners of claims are supposed to be, in your silly words, "junior GMs"?

4 hours ago, UDO said:

are u really just trolling now

How am I trolling when I'm trying to find out where WC/GS have said that land claim owners are to be considered or viewed as GMs in any way?  That's the assertion being made by the OP, so I'm wanting to know when anyone from WC/GS have said that.  If you think that's trolling, that's on you.

4 hours ago, UDO said:

given powers to demolish structures for 12 hours plus = mini gm

According to you.  To me, and most people, this is viewed as the claim owner having more options over their claim than most multiplayer games allow.  That does not inherently mean claim owners are GMs in any way.

[Winter Thorne 696]

1 hour ago, CazzT said:

Let me simplify this for you since you're not getting it...

They haven't explicitly said that all the players don't get to own land, yet it's true.

But ok.  Nevermind.

Edited March 12, 2019 by Winter Thorne

[Percieval 1,067]

I’d volunteer for GM and hunt you guys down  

[UDO 361]

1 hour ago, CazzT said:

Let me simplify this for you since you're not getting it...

 

Where have Jat, Dollie, or anyone from WC/GS said that the owners of claims are supposed to be, in your silly words, "junior GMs"?

How am I trolling when I'm trying to find out where WC/GS have said that land claim owners are to be considered or viewed as GMs in any way?  That's the assertion being made by the OP, so I'm wanting to know when anyone from WC/GS have said that.  If you think that's trolling, that's on you.

According to you.  To me, and most people, this is viewed as the claim owner having more options over their claim than most multiplayer games allow.  That does not inherently mean claim owners are GMs in any way.

trolling again , 

they will be likened to mini GMs as they will be responsible for keeping their islands that they claimed clean of structure spam , what part of this do u fail to understand , the devs have been really clever here to combat players main concerns with the new system they are allowing players to remove(moderate their own islands) offending structures for a limited time undecided on time scale for pve 

 

just because jat and dollie havn't said it what else would u say the landlords are similar too? go on u tell us ? because everyone but u thinks they are going to be moderating their own islands = what a GM with limited abilities, the ability to remove other players structures via the radial menu for limited time = an admin / gamemaster / landlord what ever u call it the devs are allowing them to do it .they dont need to tell us what we can all see with our own eyes ,

 

call them what u want a lot of players will just call them GMs or we call them IMs (island moderators)

Edited March 12, 2019 by UDO

[CazzT 68]

4 minutes ago, UDO said:

trolling again , 

Just because you don't like, or can't understand, what's being said doesn't make someone a troll.  Arbitrarily accusing someone of trolling, however...

[CazzT 68]

7 minutes ago, UDO said:

they will be likened to mini GMs as they will be responsible for keeping their islands that they claimed clean of structure spam

Likened by who?  You and Winter?  Or by WC/GS?  And who is saying they are "responsible" for the structure spam?  You and Winter are.  The only "trolling" I see here is from two people who don't understand what a GM is.

[Polar Express 74]

Calling a guy that has the ability to delet your stuff within a 12 hour period a “junior gm” is reaching a bit imo. The tax system is also no big deal. Farming is really easy. How is a island owner gonna know if your company isn’t paying their taxes anyway? Are they giving each company their own folder in the tax bank for the island. Does the island owner need to sit down everyday to do an audit on everyone living there? 

If an island owner is a jerk then I suggest people move. Or raid them if on pvp. If they are decent (even 30% tax isn’t really that bad imo due to how easy it is to farm) then it’s in a tenants best interest to stay and recruit for your island. It’s in your interest to help defend your island during a raid window if you have a good landlord. If they are an arsehole then just help the raiders out. 

Just my opinion. 

Also I hope they make the repair structures have a relatively small radius ( maybe a 10x10 foundation radius max) to counter pillaring. I hope buildings decay in 3 hours if they are outside of a repair structure’s radius.  This would effectively turn the repair structure into the new claim flag if there is a building blocked radius in that area.  Much like a tool cupboard in rust.  

 

Edited March 12, 2019 by Polar Express

[Rats 30]

Great just what the game needs mega's being gm's now, what next.