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Hattrix

(Poll) WHO WANTS AN ISLAND?

(Poll) WHO WANTS AN ISLAND?  

164 members have voted

  1. 1. (Poll) WHO WANTS AN ISLAND?

    • I want to claim (own) the whole island and the perks & responsibilities that go with it. I want to be the landlord.
      24
    • I want to live under someone else's rule (Someone else owns the island you build on. They are the landlord. You are at their mercy.)
      6
    • I want my own claim to build on (with sufficient space for shipyards, farms.. ect). No one is my landlord. 1 claim per person only.
      85
    • I want my own claim to build on (with sufficient space for shipyards, farms.. ect). No one is my landlord. MORE than 1 claim per person.
      43
    • Some other option that isn't listed (add yours to the comments)
      6


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12 minutes ago, Archsenex said:

You'd still have shared claim space etc where people would build their communal structures etc.  You just wouldn't be forced to compete for a claim to get any land at all.

Ah, I think I see.  But the problem would still exist.  Yes, you'd basically be making it so that no new player is turned away because they can't find some place to build.  BUT you'd still be right back at square one with thousands of other people crying because Player X pillar spammed the communal areas or Player Y built on top of me and I can't expand my shop. 

With the current system that they are proposing it'll be kind of rough to start with, but after the initial "zerg" period a new player will be able to look over map and choose several islands with low tax rates and sail to those sectors.  With structure decay to eliminate in-active bases there won't be so much "wasted space" and the new player will be able to explore the area and talk to the residents to see if he'd like to settle on that island or move on to the next one. 

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3 hours ago, Lotus said:

I'm debating on writing a post about how I would fix all this crap. The best solution is everybody has a personal island that is instanced to them. (Basically the garrison in WoW). Then they have a tribe island that they can do stuff with the tribe. If you leave the grid it takes you into the lawless world. I couldn't find a huge problem with this except that it basically turns official into a private server so you cut off interactions with people and the biomes would make it wonky.

~Lotus

The moment they make this survival mmo instanced is the moment I quit for sure. Why the heck I am building stuff then? It is a totally other game then.

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5 minutes ago, CoopedUp said:

Ah, I think I see.  But the problem would still exist.  Yes, you'd basically be making it so that no new player is turned away because they can't find some place to build.  BUT you'd still be right back at square one with thousands of other people crying because Player X pillar spammed the communal areas or Player Y built on top of me and I can't expand my shop. 

With the current system that they are proposing it'll be kind of rough to start with, but after the initial "zerg" period a new player will be able to look over map and choose several islands with low tax rates and sail to those sectors.  With structure decay to eliminate in-active bases there won't be so much "wasted space" and the new player will be able to explore the area and talk to the residents to see if he'd like to settle on that island or move on to the next one. 

They have to solve the pillar spam problem pretty much regardless.  Even one claim flag per person doesn't stop a group from using their claim flags to plug up the rest of an island.

And what's to stop a person from putting their claim on resources and just building  on it without it being spam.

Same with needing to expand, unless you get way more space than you need, you'll run into that issue regardless if other people choose to set up next to you.

Shared spaces for things like shops work better in a non free style setup, such as if free ports have 50 shops and you have to rent one.

There are just a lot of problems with the inherent goal of wanting people to have personal....shared space.   This proposal is to at least try and give you a slice to work with and not force you out while you're getting started etc.

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3 hours ago, Archsenex said:

I think theres some assumptions about the instancing.  It would be more like instanced freeports than instancing every island. 

You'd still have shared claim space etc where people would build their communal structures etc.  You just wouldn't be forced to compete for a claim to get any land at all.

True enough. I had originally thought of it as an instanced island. But, I believe that the same issues would still exist with instanced grids.

On an instanced island, many would likely pick the same spot to build a base as that would be an ideal location. Even if there are four or five of these spots, you’re still going to have a smaller section where each point would most commonly come out of.

If they took the freeport servers and converted each to a set of islands, you do increase the number of points of entry/exit some, but people would still most likely establish the same sea lanes from those maps to get to neighbouring or distant lands. Wind changes could shift these points, depending on how people deal with sailing against the wind, but there would still be the same sea lanes being used. And you’re also concentrating the entire population into these servers, which would drastically increase the likelihood of accidental collisions.

Even in PvE, it’s possible to lose a ship to these accidental collisions.

You also get an opportunity for griefing by having spots where a griefer can park a small fleet of boats for people to run into. What happens when your schooner or brig crosses a border directly into a wall of galleons? I honestly don’t know. Maybe I’ll test that this weekend.

Another thought; how many server resources do these instances use? If an entire map grid is used as an instance, does that not require each instance to be its own server? Should they have a dedicated server for each company, including solo players, when everybody pays a onetime fee of $20 to $60? I think this is probably why my mind went to an instanced island at first.

I don’t think there is a solution that everybody will approve of. But, hopefully these discussions will help the developers come to a solution that is at least acceptable to most of the players.

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Not surprised by the result of this poll so far and would most likely get the same results for pvp servers as well.

The dev's just don't get it that no one wants to pay taxes and be a slave to the mega's, bu the problem is they only listen to the mega's for input.

Reap what you sow.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Salty Del said:

True enough. I had originally thought of it as an instanced island. But, I believe that the same issues would still exist with instanced grids.

On an instanced island, many would likely pick the same spot to build a base as that would be an ideal location. Even if there are four or five of these spots, you’re still going to have a smaller section where each point would most commonly come out of.

If they took the freeport servers and converted each to a set of islands, you do increase the number of points of entry/exit some, but people would still most likely establish the same sea lanes from those maps to get to neighbouring or distant lands. Wind changes could shift these points, depending on how people deal with sailing against the wind, but there would still be the same sea lanes being used. And you’re also concentrating the entire population into these servers, which would drastically increase the likelihood of accidental collisions.

Even in PvE, it’s possible to lose a ship to these accidental collisions.

You also get an opportunity for griefing by having spots where a griefer can park a small fleet of boats for people to run into. What happens when your schooner or brig crosses a border directly into a wall of galleons? I honestly don’t know. Maybe I’ll test that this weekend.

Another thought; how many server resources do these instances use? If an entire map grid is used as an instance, does that not require each instance to be its own server? Should they have a dedicated server for each company, including solo players, when everybody pays a onetime fee of $20 to $60? I think this is probably why my mind went to an instanced island at first.

I don’t think there is a solution that everybody will approve of. But, hopefully these discussions will help the developers come to a solution that is at least acceptable to most of the players.

They don't actually have to make all the grids the same size.  They could make the instances much smaller than a full grid.  

Part of the way the system handles load is the stasis system.  Already, if nobody is near a part of an island, it goes into stasis.  Stuff that isn't in use uses almost no resources, and they could completely spool down the private grid for offline players.

Ultimately, the purpose of the proposal is to just consider it as an option.

I do agree, no plan will make everybody happy.  After all, there were people in the first round that got to claims first, and had unlimited forever invincible control of multiple islands at a very high tax rate.  Many of them probably are not happy.  Ultimately, it's about coming up with what's best, or at least what's least worst.  There may need to be sacrifices from the pure design to just make the game work.

I don't think players will concentrate as much as you think either.  Very quickly, getting just plain generic materials will start to burn anybody who wants to progress.  If you want to do anything OTHER than just building, you'd have to come out of your hole.  The private home zones would quickly become mostly for people who JUST want to build, or to be a refuge and storage point that players could use.

 

There's actually other reasons why, from a processor standpoint, it's a good idea.  Ships and Tames that are parked in your private instance will go into stasis much more readily than those that are parked around other islands.   Our primary bases were on Lawless islands, but most of their purpose was just to hold a bunch of tames.  the server had to pull them out of stasis and process them every time ANYBODY walked by our base, and for a short period after.

The way the game is architectured, with Stasis and that each map is really only processing when there's a player nearby, means that in terms of resources, private instances that are small, say the size of current freeports, isn't a huge system resource argument.

Edited by Archsenex

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1 hour ago, Archsenex said:

The way the game is architectured, with Stasis and that each map is really only processing when there's a player nearby, means that in terms of resources, private instances that are small, say the size of current freeports, isn't a huge system resource argument.

The maps are still processing, they just aren't rendering.  It's still processing all the data on what SotD's are in the area, what mobs are on the island, what the status of every resource is ... everything.  Just because a player is not nearby doesn't mean that the entire area goes into a stasis, it just funnels the processing power from the rendering into data manipulation.

Island instancing would add a whole new level of memory usage that would just tax the servers even more.  As it stands, if there is no players on a server the entire server is still monitoring several scraps of data for that sector.  Now imagine if it had to include on top of all that, what different wild animals are spawned into each instance and their locations/conditions, as well as what the status is of every resource.  The worse part is the wild animal factors ... your right in that with a Tame it'll log it and place it in statis more quickly, but wild animals are a dynamic moving unit that is always changing on a server.  Instances means that you would multiply that memory usage by 100+.

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Just because a player is not nearby doesn't mean that the entire area goes into a stasis, it just funnels the processing power from the rendering into data manipulation.

As far as I can see - with huge assumptions! Like I had a horse in my trap. I went to freeport and then I back and there was no horse inside. Same for Lion somehow stucked in my 18x18 lighthouse foundation square. There is no entrance and exit from there. It's just foundations an wall. But I found lion inside a square somehow. After a while I back and saw no one...

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Posted (edited)

What if...

There were big plots around the shore line of a island. Small plots on the interior of said island, not blocking resource spawns .

Each person was aloud to build on one large coastal plot, and say 5 smaller plots on other islands.

But you cannot build anywhere else except said plots you agree to build on, with a option to give up one spot and search for another.

The large coastal plots would be a base with ship building and the smaller ones would allow for a outpost or taming spot.

 

Edited by EyEamInfidel

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22 hours ago, CoopedUp said:

Then why make it a Sandbox MMO at all?  Why even bother with structure building?  Why even bother with exploring?  I build structures because I WANT to show them off, I WANT random people to be sailing by and go "Hey, check that out over there!  Let's go take a look."  I play on NA-PvE and I even leave all my doors on the house unlocked so random people can wander in and tour the place.  I WANT actual dock-side player shops where the neighbors and myself can set up stalls and have a sort of open market that people may just stumble across.  And while they are playing tourist and checking out the island, maybe they decide to see if they can settle in the area and open a stall too.  Half the reason I sail around is to EXPLORE (both the island and other people's bases), it'd be awefully boring and not worth my time if every island I go to is a barren wasteland with no signs of any other players.

A lot of MMO's have instanced player housing, but NOT ONE of those MMO's has a dynamic sandbox style instanced player housing where the player can design and build their own massive structures of different materials, and item placements.  In those instances the player housing is always the exact same model with just a few dozen minor variations and with limited "instance size", and that's because the processing power and memory systems to render and run anything more then that would send any server into a meltdown.

I"m with this guy.  If you start with a big company or join one right away , maybe that's fine.  I'm enjoying playing the game with people I met along the way.  I like touring their bases and seeing what they've done.  I like having other people around (if they're decent people).  I like helping other people build their stuff if they need it, and the list of people who have helped me is already getting large.  Even this new claim system where a claim is an island can be isolating.   If you're a very small group or solo, that seems like single player to me.  If it all goes instanced, how would anyone ever meet new people?  Not on a lawless expedition to grab supplies and get back to whatever you really wanted to be doing.

 

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The idea would be to take an island and change it to an instanced island that only you could build on visit. You could have it be your starting area and just port to it from a guy at the freeport so there's no change to the actual map and remove the collision of boats from server hopping. It could also just replace the freeports make a lawless area where the freeports are. You could put the city in lawless and have people just port from their island to their. This would also make all the lawless areas claimable.

 

~Lotus

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7 hours ago, Winter Thorne said:

I"m with this guy.  If you start with a big company or join one right away , maybe that's fine.  I'm enjoying playing the game with people I met along the way.  I like touring their bases and seeing what they've done.  I like having other people around (if they're decent people).  I like helping other people build their stuff if they need it, and the list of people who have helped me is already getting large.  Even this new claim system where a claim is an island can be isolating.   If you're a very small group or solo, that seems like single player to me.  If it all goes instanced, how would anyone ever meet new people?  Not on a lawless expedition to grab supplies and get back to whatever you really wanted to be doing.

 

I posted how I feel the claims should be changed for PvE. Everybody wins imo.

~Lotus

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8 hours ago, Lotus said:

I posted how I feel the claims should be changed for PvE. Everybody wins imo.

~Lotus

There's a bunch of sweet ideas in there.  There's also some I don't like.  I think if you and I put our heads together, we could cook up a hell of a game.  (And then we'd probably kill each other) 🤣

Seriously, though.  it's a mountain of ideas to get through.  I hope the game is around long enough for us to hash them all out.  It would take some time.

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7 hours ago, Winter Thorne said:

There's a bunch of sweet ideas in there.  There's also some I don't like.  I think if you and I put our heads together, we could cook up a hell of a game.  (And then we'd probably kill each other) 🤣

Seriously, though.  it's a mountain of ideas to get through.  I hope the game is around long enough for us to hash them all out.  It would take some time.

I have a ton of time now cause no point to do things on Atlas ATM 😄

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41 minutes ago, Lotus said:

I have a ton of time now cause no point to do things on Atlas ATM 😄

If I get any quiet time, I'll have another look at your suggestion post and make some comments on it.

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On 3/9/2019 at 7:25 PM, Vorxius said:

I'm absolutely never, likely to ever rever weather feather ever ever ever ever never... EVER going to be someone's tenant in Atlas.

1 reasonable, non griefable, no douche entitled, no ones slave, just plain old simple own plot of claim to call home.  That's me sorted right there.

 

Else claimable islands are just a tourist destination for me / us, prefer to live on lawless, and reap whatever penance goes with it   🙂

Yeah, that about sums up my sentiments as well. I am onboard the 1 claim per person train, but since we are not getting that I will just live on lawless again. I live there now and it works out just fine for me.

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On 3/10/2019 at 10:56 AM, DoubleHelix said:

If you are building with and within reason and you are not blocking vital resources or access to certain areas, no normal landlord will demolish your base as he will benefit from your presence on his land (less upkeep + tax from your local farming towards his upkeep amount - i.e. less farming for him). But if you have the intention to build a 100x100 foundations useless stone monstrosity plus another one of the same size, linked with a copy of the Golden Gate bridge plus real sized copy of the Great Pyramid as a center of your garden and all this surrounded by a copy of the Great Wall and block half the island with your weird architectural experiments, I doubt that your "base" will last even 2 hours. 

Or if the landlord is a dick and destroys your tiny shack just because he does not want ppl on his island, find another island and carry on. Oh, and wish "Good luck with the farming" to the dick as he will have to pay in solo his base and his island upkeep. And post your experience on the forums. I am sure that a topic "Good/bad landlords list" will be very popular and regularly updated with up-to-date info.

And via natural selection, new landlords will replace the idiot ones much faster than expected. And not only as many people are about to overestimate their potential and soon they will realise that this is not for them due to time consumption. Just wait for the upkeep time to come. Of course, this will happen if the devs set it in a way to be a real collective effort, depending on island size and resources. The announced "claim power" based on company size and different class islands, requiring different "claim power" is a good sign that they are working in the right direction.

In fact, a 5x5 base plus 2x2 Behe animal pen and a shipyard is more than enough to cover all your ingame needs. Owning and maintaining and island with all its pros and cons - I'd rather skip that part. Anyway, to have all the good stuff crafted, you have to sail and farm all around the map, so focusing your effort to one island is not the smartest move. Unless you are fine with all generic or green/blue at best items as your top crafts.

If I get heat stroke and decide to become a landlord, I will strictly determine the building plots, where people can build a base - e.g. up to 10x10 plus animal pen 2x2 Behe gates in size, and small, big shipyard and a pier for several ships. The rest of the island will be no-build farming area with only exception to structures, easing access to certain resources - e.g. stairs to pure metal nodes or gems on top of a steep rock. Such structures will be built by me as landlord and will be accessible for everyone. Of course, exceptions are possible for no-resource areas - e.g. big rock by the sea with not a single bush or stone on it or several not worth the farming effort trees, but all this would be a subject of discussion. And of course, the tax will be calculated for mutual benefit. If e.g. 5% are enough to cover the upkeep of the island and my 5x5 base, so be it. But again - this is just a theory what I would do if I decide that I need this constant engagement with a single island.

@Hattrix - For the record - I haven't voted in the poll as it is not unbiased - I believe you can figure out alone where it is. 

the rpoblem is we are again being dictated to by other players with this new system as bad as the old one , they dont want u with the old system they spam flags all over island , they dont want u with this system they remove your building , same end result 

 

ALL THE DEVS HAD TO DO WAS LIMIT THE FLAG CLAIMS PER COMPANY , then all players could choose any island they wanted too as there would be room 

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On 3/12/2019 at 4:44 PM, Lotus said:

The idea would be to take an island and change it to an instanced island that only you could build on visit. You could have it be your starting area and just port to it from a guy at the freeport so there's no change to the actual map and remove the collision of boats from server hopping. It could also just replace the freeports make a lawless area where the freeports are. You could put the city in lawless and have people just port from their island to their. This would also make all the lawless areas claimable.

 

~Lotus

And what's the claim mechanic?  Limited?  No limits?  Restrictions?  Claim an island, be a landlord?  What are you envisioning claims would look like in your design?

Because when I read that it seems like you've stuck a private starter island on the front of the game, but it's unclear what you're doing to fix the claim problem.  Giving everyone a private starter island won't make them not care about having a claim.  The private starter island could actually be a separate design suggestion not related to the claim issue at all.

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Posted (edited)

Agreed with freeports could be instanced and not change the game at all (NPC shops could be replicated), but in the open world that is not a solution because this is by design an open world game.    It works in FO76 because that was not intended to be an massive persistent world , if someone attacks my base I can just logoff and move to another server instance.   

Claim flags solve the problems of others building on your spot.  On PVE just like ARK did you should have claim blocks so that rare nodes, treasures and freeports are not being blocked off.   But that is also why you want more claims than one, so that people can put no build claims over resource spots they use and share, as well as being able to adapt to unusual topography that cannot be covered with one small claim. 

Those voting for only one claim are presuming it will cover all their resources and their base and their shipyards and their ships, that is very likely not the case.  Live on a shallow water peninsula sandbar you would need more claims (and sacrifice ability for remote bases) to get the same access that somone on a deepwater beach backed by a forest and mine has.

 

Edited by krazmuze

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I refuse to be at the mercy of another living on someones land like a peasant. I was going to move off my lawless land if they had come up with a great new flag system so more of us were able to find claimable land. However with the way it went I will stay on my lawless island even if that means logging in constantly to keep my property. I don't care if I have pneumonia I'm logging on....hit by a bus? Bring me a laptop, I'm logging in. I REFUSE TO BE AT THE MERCY OF ANOTHER THAT CAN WIPE ME OFF THE FACE OF THE ISLAND IF THEY HAD A BAD DAY AND ARE A TOOL WITH AN EGO TRIP.

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1 hour ago, Eve BlackVeil said:

What about this idea I had? Did it sound feasible?

It still has a lot of the current flaws that are still in play now that they are trying to eliminate with the new claim system.  With the Deed system you can purchase a claim, but there is no oversight and you still have to farm other people's claims for resources.  Are you allowed to tax people that farm all the resources on your land?  Or will you be taxed because you are farming on someone else's land?  What if a Mega Company proceeds to buy all the land around you and completely walls you in?  Or doesn't like that your island has a gem spawn and buys that one deed just to pillar spam it and force everyone to travel 3 sectors to the next nearest point?

I know that there is a lot of people are worried about the new system, but the purpose of it is to create a system of checks and balances.  It's trying to make is so that no one person can rampage around without consequences and repercussions.  If a tenant is a dick then the landlord can break his stuff and evict him from the island, if the landlord is a dick then no one will live on his island and he'll probably fail his upkeep and lose control of his island.  Then one of the previous tenants can take over the island and evict him, like he did to others.

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Lol if i own an island and see one pillar blocking anything im evicting the group who placed it. Theres no place for people that selfish in any game. Just demolish everything they own. Id encourage any island owner to do the same. Pillaring should equal perma ban from the server.

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