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Daemon Cross

People left the game ?

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Your also wrong, making islands owned by one person will not fix griefing, mega companies will still troll people in hopes to make them quit or give up the area they are on. The only way to stop griefing is to make claims only build able to the people who own them.  If I own a claim and you can’t build there then there is no way to grief me.  Unless you use a exploit which I would take a video of and you’d be banned.  The developers may choose not to ban and they already admitted to liking the fact people use exploits but they are in the business to make money and if they continue to show favoritism towards griefing then I can pretty much bet they will be jobless because the financial backing they have will pull funding if they can’t bring in a player base.

 Players will not tolerate others using exploits anymore then the 40000 players who have already left. The only reason this game is still floating is because it is in early access and they have convinced the financial backing that they could turn it around and bring players back to the game.

 I will guarantee you that without a player base to pay for the servers it requires to run this game, the game won’t last.

   You are for the large companies but you’ve never once stated why my idea wouldn’t work.  You stated because large companies will grief you until you leave, I got news for you, large companies can grief each other as well so being part of one has no benefit.    I’m not going to troll another player in this game but I won’t tolerate bullshit from another player either. I have no desire to be part of a large company and be subjected to the mouth of its members. 

  If you truly believe that my idea won’t work then point out the ways it will fail and I’ll show the ways it will succeed. 

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The point truly is moot at this stage.

We have whole island claims coming. We as the player base dont know how they will work or even the vision of how they want them to work.

What we can be fairly certain of is; if we want pve to not be 100% lawless, this is grapeshots only solution on the table. 

 

All we can do from here is test, break, report and suggest.

We need to help make it work.

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The only way we can make it work is to keep making suggestions and hope that the majority of pvers will all agree on one of them and grapeshot will move in that direction. 

 The current system that is going to be implemented isn’t designed right, solo players can own small islands and large companies can own large islands, with 800 + islands that will be in the game, at max server load how many players are going to complain because they can’t own land ? It’s going to be a repeat of the same issues we started with, only differences are that we may not see the rush of players after the wipe as we did when it 1st released. So who plays now will have land possibly and those who start later will not.

Edited by Daemon Cross

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6 hours ago, Winter Thorne said:

I already know it exists.  Not the specific details you gave, but in general, I know that stuff happens.  Where we differ is in what to do about it.

Your solution looks like putting the fox in charge of the hen house to me.  You know this specifically about some of the bigger tribes, yet you want this solution to let them own the most land, be landlords who get to tell people what to do, and make them GMs with a hotline to Grapeshot.

I don't see the sense in it.

What I see is removal of motive to do such a thing. So lets say there's an aggressive tribe starts expanding because somebody stopped playing upkeep fell and now they can take more of an island they get the claims and their borders expand to the point that they have a most of an island. They expand to the point that they have all but your 2 claims on an island. They approach you and say they want the whole island you can live there as a tenant but they want the claims so they can build a highway. These are your claims, you have,had them since the first week, you tell them you will let them build on them but you are going to keep your claims. They respond with we'll see. The next day you log on and your base, tames, and ships are all gone. You have no proof who did it but you are pretty sure you know. What do you do at this point?

I don't know what happened to that player. I heard this story from a guy and that was his reason for joining Lotus because he didn't want to be a part of a group that did stuff like that, he just wanted to fight ships of the damned or maybe do some powerstones. On that tile I have a tribe I am allied with and I was like tell me about this group and he basically confirmed that in global they say things like that then people's stuff disappears.

You like to talk about perspective so now that you see that player that just wanted to play the game lose everything. I want you to think of it as a customer in the eyes of a dev and you get multiples of these daily. You need to find a solution to prevent the problem. You could investigate each incident 1 by 1 but that takes 1 day per case and you get 1-5 cases a day. So if you investigate a case and it's fake then what do you do? Waste a whole day with no results. You need to make solutions that prevent the problems rather than deal with the problems that have already happened.

So currently from the devs we have the claim a whole island. This prevents a tribe from wanting to expand their claims to have a "whole" island. I see that fixing so many problems.

(After typing that I realized something)

Did you know there's a group in the top 10 that in their prime had 8 active core members? (they had about 30 total members but they weren't super active)

So an 8 man team was able to claim enough land to be top 10. Do you consider that to be a big company?

In our prime we had 15-25 online daily, 30 on for Kraken, and 50-60 on weekly, 85 total. Do you consider that to be a big company?

I believe for our tribe 1 large, 1 medium, and 1-2 small is fair. That is 4 islands with 15 people on each island. If people want to live on our island cool, if they don't there should be plenty of islands to go claim. This system will make it so they have a decision.

 

~Lotus

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4 hours ago, Daemon Cross said:

Your also wrong, making islands owned by one person will not fix griefing, mega companies will still troll people in hopes to make them quit or give up the area they are on. The only way to stop griefing is to make claims only build able to the people who own them.  If I own a claim and you can’t build there then there is no way to grief me.  Unless you use a exploit which I would take a video of and you’d be banned.  The developers may choose not to ban and they already admitted to liking the fact people use exploits but they are in the business to make money and if they continue to show favoritism towards griefing then I can pretty much bet they will be jobless because the financial backing they have will pull funding if they can’t bring in a player base.

 Players will not tolerate others using exploits anymore then the 40000 players who have already left. The only reason this game is still floating is because it is in early access and they have convinced the financial backing that they could turn it around and bring players back to the game.

 I will guarantee you that without a player base to pay for the servers it requires to run this game, the game won’t last.

   You are for the large companies but you’ve never once stated why my idea wouldn’t work.  You stated because large companies will grief you until you leave, I got news for you, large companies can grief each other as well so being part of one has no benefit.    I’m not going to troll another player in this game but I won’t tolerate bullshit from another player either. I have no desire to be part of a large company and be subjected to the mouth of its members. 

  If you truly believe that my idea won’t work then point out the ways it will fail and I’ll show the ways it will succeed. 

I already posted what happened to a solo player when a group next to them wanted their land. The group knew his schedule so knew when he would be asleep to ruin the game for him. No proof, no ban. There's also a way around the ban thing if it does come to that.

I want to see this developer liking people that exploit and the favoritism of griefing.

Large companies do grief each other, there was a grief war between 2 of them at one point. Being a part of a larger company has major benefits in terms of progression. I am level 87 on PvE and hit level 40 in 2 days on PvP. I also killed the Kraken first week I was on PvP so yeah...

This game has no way to get money after a player pays for it to my knowledge so active player base =/= income.

You described personal ownership which was already in the game. It was removed because people would join drop a claim and if they left there would be a weird claim in the middle of your territory that nobody really owned the areas you could build were patchy and screwed up. There was also problems with do you want this boat the player would say no so I put legendary sails and weapons on it. You decide to leave and now the legendary stuff on it goes with you. That idea was tried already.

2 hours ago, Daemon Cross said:

The only way we can make it work is to keep making suggestions and hope that the majority of pvers will all agree on one of them and grapeshot will move in that direction. 

 The current system that is going to be implemented isn’t designed right, solo players can own small islands and large companies can own large islands, with 800 + islands that will be in the game, at max server load how many players are going to complain because they can’t own land ? It’s going to be a repeat of the same issues we started with, only differences are that we may not see the rush of players after the wipe as we did when it 1st released. So who plays now will have land possibly and those who start later will not.

I don't see this happening. I already stated for my 60 guys I think us having 4 islands is fair that is 15 per island, 12,000 total players could fit on 800 islands with every tribe having their own land. On the 4 servers this would be 48,000 players and that is just running PvE numbers. PvP actually has 2-4x the number of players per island.

 

~Lotus

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But your contradicting yourself, you stated that a solo player had 2 claims and a large company griefed him for those two claims so they could own the entire island, there is no difference in one person owning a island or a large company, if for example I own the island and a large company settles on it and they decide they want ownership and ask me for the claim but I deny it. They can grief me until I give in, vice versa - your company makes the claim but I build there and you say we want this island for our members only, you will need to join or leave, if I refuse they can grief me until I give in one way or another.   

The only solution is to fix the exploits, have instant based bases or claims per account that doesn’t allow others to build on your claim.

Furthermore your saying 15 people per large island, have you seen how many claims it takes to go around the outside of a large island ? With that thinking right there is why we  are in the situation that we are in now, companies with that same mind frame controlled all the land and no one had a place to build. I mean what in the hell would 15 people do with a large island that could hold 150 to 200 claims with the current claim flags.

 As you being a large company then you may be entitled to 5 claims, that’s room to build a base for storage, a pen to hold your tames and several shipyards to build your ships. Figuring you can get what, 8 shipyards within a single claim now, 5 claims is plenty for a large company.

Afterall you are a company, you should stick together not fan out and take up space that you’ll never use.

   You are no different than the griefers who were causing people to leave, you want people to be part of a large company so it looks good, if people don’t want to be part of a large company then you frown upon them because this is a mmo after all and it’s supposed to be team based, so there is no room for solo players.

  Aside from raids in WoW ( that scenario ) where you had to group up to do the content there was no benefit to being in a guild. Even World of Warcraft adapted the frame of mind that solo players could join in by joining a random queue to find a group, ESO had public dungeons that solo players could enter and join in with other solo players to do the content. This game is no different, this is not a instanced based game, if your large company is fighting the Kraken and I show up to get a hit on it I’ll bet I get credit for the battle.  I really don’t know for sure because I’ve had no interest in doing end game content.

    So explain to me again why I need to join a large company or where the difference is in griefing between a solo and large company, I mean afterall whether it’s a large company or solo players that’s griefing someone they are still considered assholes.

Edited by Daemon Cross

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6 hours ago, Lotus said:

Did you know there's a group in the top 10 that in their prime had 8 active core members? (they had about 30 total members but they weren't super active)

So an 8 man team was able to claim enough land to be top 10. Do you consider that to be a big company?

And their land push started AFTER the first wave of first come first serve (ie. no 10 min flag timers at all, started with 6 hour despawn timers and 8min interruptions) 

Edited by MisterMyztik
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1 hour ago, Daemon Cross said:

But your contradicting yourself, you stated that a solo player had 2 claims and a large company griefed him for those two claims so they could own the entire island, there is no difference in one person owning a island or a large company, if for example I own the island and a large company settles on it and they decide they want ownership and ask me for the claim but I deny it. They can grief me until I give in, vice versa - your company makes the claim but I build there and you say we want this island for our members only, you will need to join or leave, if I refuse they can grief me until I give in one way or another.   

The only solution is to fix the exploits, have instant based bases or claims per account that doesn’t allow others to build on your claim.

Furthermore your saying 15 people per large island, have you seen how many claims it takes to go around the outside of a large island ? With that thinking right there is why we  are in the situation that we are in now, companies with that same mind frame controlled all the land and no one had a place to build. I mean what in the hell would 15 people do with a large island that could hold 150 to 200 claims with the current claim flags.

 As you being a large company then you may be entitled to 5 claims, that’s room to build a base for storage, a pen to hold your tames and several shipyards to build your ships. Figuring you can get what, 8 shipyards within a single claim now, 5 claims is plenty for a large company.

Afterall you are a company, you should stick together not fan out and take up space that you’ll never use.

   You are no different than the griefers who were causing people to leave, you want people to be part of a large company so it looks good, if people don’t want to be part of a large company then you frown upon them because this is a mmo after all and it’s supposed to be team based, so there is no room for solo players.

  Aside from raids in WoW ( that scenario ) where you had to group up to do the content there was no benefit to being in a guild. Even World of Warcraft adapted the frame of mind that solo players could join in by joining a random queue to find a group, ESO had public dungeons that solo players could enter and join in with other solo players to do the content. This game is no different, this is not a instanced based game, if your large company is fighting the Kraken and I show up to get a hit on it I’ll bet I get credit for the battle.  I really don’t know for sure because I’ve had no interest in doing end game content.

    So explain to me again why I need to join a large company or where the difference is in griefing between a solo and large company, I mean afterall whether it’s a large company or solo players that’s griefing someone they are still considered assholes.

Having claims that arn't entire islands at this point is highly unlikely. PvP accounts for 2x our population the game will be made to cater to them and then be PvE will be an adaptation of their foundation.

I've never said I want people to be able to build anywhere that needs to get changed. What I have said is they need to make it so I can allow company ID to the island so they can build. The other thing I am pushing for is the island owner can drop a flag that another company can claim and it becomes their land to do whatever with. If they don't follow the rules the owner can pull the flag. I posted it on the post I made in the suggestion thread.

I don't know if you care about being able to play the whole game but in the next patch- Kraken is a 33% cooldown reduction buff (already in game). It also gates the submarine which is access to the new trenches and generated shipwrecks. Trenches will house the new crab tame which is supposed to be able to carry a lot of things. The dungeons are also gated behind 9 powerstones or the kraken. They are adding 8 more powerstones and a new difficulty level kraken which has an unknown reward. PvE progression will also unlock your tarot skill tree.

https://gyazo.com/3e2553d4e44cb3872970702069085e94

This tree is the "Magic" of this game.

I believe that content should not be for a select few so when I schedule my runs I allow anybody to come. Rules are don't be toxic and follow directions. If the content is really hard I require discord.

https://gyazo.com/8e8b659b968a83e540964996327ae817

That is after we sank 50 of them for... reasons 😄

5 claims doesn't even fit 1/2 our boats. Our primary barn is a 30x30x2 levels. It was home to about 1/10 our total animals. I am not counting breedstock either. We actually only used 2 large, 1 small, and 1 tiny (for lawls) in terms of shipyards. We had a room for each specific crafting branch. (After wipe we are not doing this I want just a box with all the stuff). Around the base we had about 150-200 boxes of armor, weapons, bolas, maps, ship weapons, bolas, planks, sails, maps, blueprints, bolas, maps, climbing picks, maps, tools, glide suits, bolas, maps, mythos, bolas, seeds, musical instruments, fertilizer, gunpowder, and I have 2 boxes dedicated to spyglasses for when I need to hit @Larsque. We stopped playing before the bookshelf was a thing so we might only need 100 boxes. This does not include preserving bags for taming foods. This is just our primary base which is 5-6 claims.

~Lotus

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10 hours ago, Lotus said:

What I see is removal of motive to do such a thing. So lets say there's an aggressive tribe starts expanding because somebody stopped playing upkeep fell and now they can take more of an island they get the claims and their borders expand to the point that they have a most of an island.

~Lotus

What I see is increasingly complicated justifications for having the game developed in a way that each player doesn't get to own their own base.

Removal of a motive -  the motive for griefing is griefing.  Plenty of griefers are not in that very specific example you're using, of a company owning all but one or two claims and wanting the island.  To pretend that giving them the whole island solves the problem doesn't address griefing in general, and it's just bribing bad players and hoping they behave themselves. What about the company with enough points to own 3 islands, and they've got 2, and now they want mine?  There's lots of them, and only me and maybe a couple of my friends to defend it.  And now it's build everywhere and I get to do some useless "treasure hunt" every morning trying to find where they hid all the crap.  And that's just one other example of a motive for griefing.  What about the guys who just want to be jerks?

 

10 hours ago, Lotus said:

 The next day you log on and your base, tames, and ships are all gone. You have no proof who did it but you are pretty sure you know. What do you do at this point?

You like to talk about perspective so now that you see that player that just wanted to play the game lose everything. I want you to think of it as a customer in the eyes of a dev and you get multiples of these daily. You need to find a solution to prevent the problem. You could investigate each incident 1 by 1 but that takes 1 day per case and you get 1-5 cases a day. So if you investigate a case and it's fake then what do you do? Waste a whole day with no results. You need to make solutions that prevent the problems rather than deal with the problems that have already happened.

 

~Lotus

Your solution to this problem is - give those guys islands and let them build on anyone else's islands they want and maybe they'll stop.

My solution to this problem is -  The game is run on ()*#ing computers!  Computers can do this job quite easily you know.  Computers already keep a log about what happened in your company, they surely know what killed a player or what killed a tame, and can be made to know even more about what happened.  This kind of thing does not take a CS person a whole day with the proper tools.  Takes an hour maybe.  If a gaming company gives a rat's ass about customer support they have tools to do these things.

You're right, it's better to prevent it in the first place in the game code.  This new update does nothing at all to prevent it, and in fact opens even more holes to abuse in the "build everywhere" logic.  We both agree that build anywhere is bad.  But if they get rid of it, we are right back where we are now, with having to beg permission from some company to get a place to build.  The players didn't like that on the last two iterations, but let's just keep trying it until they do.

If the choice is between giving more and more to griefers trying to keep them happy enough to not annoy other players (and then just ignoring all the complaints because "the design of the game allows that, so it's not a hack") , or giving everyone a claim that nobody else can build on, and then using a CS tool to investigate someone hacking and doing it anyway, I pick the second option.

They've gotten rid of the griefing by designing a solution that encourages griefing so now it's an accepted tactic.

It's a question of what is allowed vs, what is not allowed in the game.  If you start out by telling griefers they can build anywhere, and they do that, you've fixed the griefing problem by changing the definition so it's no longer griefing.   And at the end of the day, you still have players on pve wrecking other players' games in a situation where they can't fight back.

 

 

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Oh btw “@NotDollie 

I mean, if I weren't doing Community Manager things, I'd likely be trolling nerds in ATLAS too. 

 

youtube.com/watch?v=BfxB3l…

 

@KOSDFF 😂

 

I’ve got the screenshot to, I’ll try to post the link but in the video you can see a guy taking down a anchored Galleon from shore using a cannon.

he does other things that are considered griefing but Dollie justifies it saying he was captured in her comments and held captive but let go because he was so annoying.

 

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3 hours ago, Lotus said:

I've never said I want people to be able to build anywhere that needs to get changed. What I have said is they need to make it so I can allow company ID to the island so they can build. The other thing I am pushing for is the island owner can drop a flag that another company can claim and it becomes their land to do whatever with. If they don't follow the rules the owner can pull the flag. I posted it on the post I made in the suggestion thread.

Is that not the system we have now ? Your saying you decide who can build and who can’t ? What made you God, Jury and Executioner ?  In case you didn’t notice you repeated yourself a lot in the items you had around the island, I also had a storage box for each material , BP’s and musical notes, armor, leftover building structures,  I can guarantee you don’t need a whole island. 

Your a griefer trying to justify your actions, keep letting us in on more of how you played the game.  You can’t justify having more land than you need, you can’t justify saying who can and can’t build and you can’t justify how I play the game vs how you play it. 

 Just give it up, the more you let be known is not winning any awards from a solo players POV 

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41 minutes ago, Winter Thorne said:

What I see is increasingly complicated justifications for having the game developed in a way that each player doesn't get to own their own base.

Removal of a motive -  the motive for griefing is griefing.  Plenty of griefers are not in that very specific example you're using, of a company owning all but one or two claims and wanting the island.  To pretend that giving them the whole island solves the problem doesn't address griefing in general, and it's just bribing bad players and hoping they behave themselves. What about the company with enough points to own 3 islands, and they've got 2, and now they want mine?  There's lots of them, and only me and maybe a couple of my friends to defend it.  And now it's build everywhere and I get to do some useless "treasure hunt" every morning trying to find where they hid all the crap.  And that's just one other example of a motive for griefing.  What about the guys who just want to be jerks?

 

Your solution to this problem is - give those guys islands and let them build on anyone else's islands they want and maybe they'll stop.

My solution to this problem is -  The game is run on ()*#ing computers!  Computers can do this job quite easily you know.  Computers already keep a log about what happened in your company, they surely know what killed a player or what killed a tame, and can be made to know even more about what happened.  This kind of thing does not take a CS person a whole day with the proper tools.  Takes an hour maybe.  If a gaming company gives a rat's ass about customer support they have tools to do these things.

You're right, it's better to prevent it in the first place in the game code.  This new update does nothing at all to prevent it, and in fact opens even more holes to abuse in the "build everywhere" logic.  We both agree that build anywhere is bad.  But if they get rid of it, we are right back where we are now, with having to beg permission from some company to get a place to build.  The players didn't like that on the last two iterations, but let's just keep trying it until they do.

If the choice is between giving more and more to griefers trying to keep them happy enough to not annoy other players (and then just ignoring all the complaints because "the design of the game allows that, so it's not a hack") , or giving everyone a claim that nobody else can build on, and then using a CS tool to investigate someone hacking and doing it anyway, I pick the second option.

They've gotten rid of the griefing by designing a solution that encourages griefing so now it's an accepted tactic.

It's a question of what is allowed vs, what is not allowed in the game.  If you start out by telling griefers they can build anywhere, and they do that, you've fixed the griefing problem by changing the definition so it's no longer griefing.   And at the end of the day, you still have players on pve wrecking other players' games in a situation where they can't fight back.

 

 

We will have to see what happens when the island claim system comes out. Only company build with allowed certain company ID's makes it a big step in the right direction. The lawless thing is not.

Removing players wanting to complete their island does remove some of the reasons to grief. Greifing to grief is actually rare in terms of griefing. The new whole island claim should put a type of protection on your claim vs how a designated claim area works and hopefully will remove the way people just delete claim flags that are current on upkeep.

As far as this game's protection... Battle eye watches for 3rd party programs and certain suspicious macros. Battleye also kinda sucks at doing that. Aimbotting, duping, rollbacks, speedhacks, stat hacks, ESP exist on PvP and have for a while. Battle eye is not even close the Blizzard's Warden or whatever you are used to playing with. To my knowledge they have nothing that monitors something like who was around when this boat sunk. When it sinks it just says it sinks. This is why when you report something they want clear physical evidence of what happened. Basically you need a video of them griefing you. Even with that the griefing still happened and it's been clearly stated they are not restoring things unless it's an extreme case. (Like when the dragons were in freeports for 6ish? hours).

The amount of funding this game is pretty limited. So every solution has a cost. The highest cost for Grapeshot is labor hours. To fix the way people grief could take months. Changing how a flag works is a much faster way to prevent the griefing while the engine coding is fixed.

~Lotus

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30 minutes ago, Daemon Cross said:

Oh btw “@NotDollie 

I mean, if I weren't doing Community Manager things, I'd likely be trolling nerds in ATLAS too. 

 

youtube.com/watch?v=BfxB3l…

 

@KOSDFF 😂

 

I’ve got the screenshot to, I’ll try to post the link but in the video you can see a guy taking down a anchored Galleon from shore using a cannon.

he does other things that are considered griefing but Dollie justifies it saying he was captured in her comments and held captive but let go because he was so annoying.

 

Where is the exploit?

~Lotus

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21 minutes ago, Daemon Cross said:

Is that not the system we have now ? Your saying you decide who can build and who can’t ? What made you God, Jury and Executioner ?  In case you didn’t notice you repeated yourself a lot in the items you had around the island, I also had a storage box for each material , BP’s and musical notes, armor, leftover building structures,  I can guarantee you don’t need a whole island. 

Your a griefer trying to justify your actions, keep letting us in on more of how you played the game.  You can’t justify having more land than you need, you can’t justify saying who can and can’t build and you can’t justify how I play the game vs how you play it. 

 Just give it up, the more you let be known is not winning any awards from a solo players POV 

The fact that it's our land should allow us to determine who does and doesn't build on our land.

For items though you didn't have bolas, maps, and don't forget bolas.  @Larsque Tell him about bolas!

How am I griefer?

You just became incredibly amusing to me at this point. How much land do you think we have? Do you know how much land each of the Top 10 companies on NA-PvE has? You realize that the developers want us to take as much as we can and gives us rewards to take as much as we can right? To my knowledge I'm the only tribe in the top 10 that as a leader I said "DO NOT GO ABOVE THIS MANY LAND CLAIMS." Then I removed some of our older claims when people merged which people thought meant I will remove the claims they bring in when it was actually lesser used land.

The new claim a whole island system's top 10 is going to be based on taking and holding as many islands as possible.

 

As for justification of things you seem to just be lashing out because... reasons?...

 

~Lotus

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I've heard reports that a lot of PVE players haven't left the game but rather with the new changes they are moving to the new friendly PVP servers where there is plenty of free land available to base build and tame.

It makes sense I guess because its basically the same thing as a regular PVE server just has a fancier name on it.

Edited by Bullet Force
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1 hour ago, Lotus said:

The fact that it's our land should allow us to determine who does and doesn't build on our land.

 Do you know how much land each of the Top 10 companies on NA-PvE has? You realize that the developers want us to take as much as we can and gives us rewards to take as much as we can right? 

The new claim a whole island system's top 10 is going to be based on taking and holding as many islands as possible.

 

As for justification of things you seem to just be lashing out because... reasons?...

 

~Lotus

You aren't getting it, Lotus.  The lashing out is because the developers keep hearing people complain because they have no land and then putting in yet another system where they have no land.  Wiping the server to put in another system where they have no land.

And you keep supporting this with justifications about why it's good to have systems where people have no land.

As long as you are not supporting the idea that every player should be able to own a piece of land, you're going to get this kind of pushback.  Doesn't matter how nice you are or the lists you post of nice things you did.  We're talking about game systems here.  It's not all about you.  It's not even mostly about you.

1 hour ago, Lotus said:

How am I griefer?

 

Well, technically you're not.  And that's the problem.  A griefer is someone who goes around the game mechanisms to hurt other players.  The devs have given you a mechanism to hurt other players on a silver platter.  In fact, they encourage it.

If you want to know why people are lashing out, try this -  when the game comes back up after the wipe, drop your company, come in as a new player or with one buddy, come in late, too..sit out the first few hours after the servers come up.  Give yourself 3 hours of playing time every day.  Then try to play like that and see what you think of the game. 

 

Edited by Winter Thorne

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 You stated pvp has 2 x the amount of pvers, no kidding, they pushed pvers out of the game with the exploits and griefing.

 You asked where the griefing was, did you even watch the video? 

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5 minutes ago, Daemon Cross said:

 You stated pvp has 2 x the amount of pvers, no kidding, they pushed pvers out of the game with the exploits and griefing.

 You asked where the griefing was, did you even watch the video? 

I will tell you what pushed PVP players out this game and that is these new anti PVP changes. That is what has done the real damage.

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22 minutes ago, Bullet Force said:

I will tell you what pushed PVP players out this game and that is these new anti PVP changes. That is what has done the real damage.

That's not what we're talking about here.  (And not what he said anyway)

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I can’t comment on what has happened to the pvp side of the game, I won’t assume that I know anything about it. I know your pain though when it comes to players leaving.

 Lotus - you were one of the top companies and the game mechanics encourage that. I understand but that still does not make it right,  as a solo player I was able to find claims and then gave them away to help others. You took claims in order to hold rank. With as many people complaining in the forums about not being able to find land, you felt holding a rank was more important then having a player base. By holding land you didn’t need is that not a form of causing grief to someone who held no land ?  The issue was that there wasn’t a place to build, the issue was that no one wanted to build on someone elses land. Which is the same system that is currently being implemented just in a different form. 

 You may own the island, your company may push smaller players out so you can have what they got. That is the system now and the system that is coming, so explain how the new system is going to bring players back to stay ?

 You stated that you had a lot of people who signed in on a weekly basis but that number dwindled, without players to have other players to interact with you don’t have a mmo. You stated that the game got to a point that you switched to pvp a couple weeks before the announcement of the wipe.  You switched because companies like yours pushed so many people out of the game or pve side on official that it was no longer fun, there are a few of us still playing the pve side on official and it’s not because we have rank or more claims then we need it’s because we only have a few claims and made our homes on them. There is enough of us in different companies that we’ve become a little community and it’s not because of rank or how much land land we have, it’s because we would rather help someone then see them quit the game.

  I hope you are starting to understand why I said you were part of the problem whether you played by the encouragement of the game design or not.

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Im seeing a trend here where people who didnt get land are the ones flaming here saying those who got land were huge zurg companies who pushed out the little guy. I call bullsh%40- on that. I was part of a small 3 man company who had a total of 5 claims. Never pushed anyone around, always helped my neighbors. Now because of a bunch of whiney millennials who didnt get their participation trophy with no effort cried loudly so the Dev did what they wanted. Now little companies like mine who weren't lazy trash afraid to leave the lawless now lost everything we worked for. Without claims, there will be no resources since it will be  either a foundation spam or people will build right where the resources are. See with a claim system and the bank, keeping  resources available to other players was paramount. If you overbuilt your claim, you got no taxes. Kept the server clean. Now it will be a free for all mess. Its going to basically turn every isle into a spammed slum of random buildings and scrubs building all over the place. Before with the claim, it wasnt easy to build bases all over the game and if you sailed for resources, you had to sail to your home port, dump your bounty and go back out. Now, just fast travel to one of your 500 bases you spammed all over the game. The Devs listened to the extremely vocal minority. I've even seen some forum trolls who dont even play the game posting up. My feeling is you left the game, eat sh%* you left. The rest of us who pushed through the server crashes, the OP animals, the bugs, etc. are getting screwed by some lazy trolls.  I will also say Since the announcement of the wipe I have given up on my base and tames and just started sailing and NOT ONE SINGLE person I have talked to in 50+ servers are happy about the loss of claims. As I said, it is my belief it is a very vocal minority. This was a bad decision that will pretty much kill the future of this game. I know myself I put a fraction of the time I used to. 

 

Think the game is a mess now? Wait until the thousands of landowners that lost their land become griefers. Think the lawless areas had foundation spams? Pfft, you havent seen nothin yet.

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Not sure who you are referring to that didn’t have claims, not sure you even read through the recent comments.

  I’ll catch you up - one person says they suggested what is coming to the developers saying that since him and a few others were the top 10 companies in the game because they held the most land claims that this is a single owner of a island should be a good idea. They can be landlords having 15 members of their company to each large island as a reward for holding land in the current system and becoming one of the top 10 companies. They will police everyone else by basically saying if you follow our rules you can build here if you don’t we will force you out.

  I think that sums up that part, now the other half you missed is where those of us who done as you done had land, not much but 1 to 3 claims is against their idea and were saying they are the reason people couldn’t find land with the original system.

Now that you are caught up you can choose to be with the large companies who will control everything or against them. Most of us are against them 

Edited by Daemon Cross

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1 hour ago, =MGC=Ranger said:

Im seeing a trend here where  (Blah blah blah, misunderstand every argument, rant about lazy millenials, nobody works as hard at a game as I do, blah blah..thinks his anecdotes are data , blah blah)

 

You forgot to say Get Off My Lawn.

1 hour ago, =MGC=Ranger said:

Think the game is a mess now? Wait until the thousands of landowners that lost their land become griefers. Think the lawless areas had foundation spams? Pfft, you havent seen nothin yet.

Oh yeah, this I can agree with.

And all they had to do was limit claims to avoid the huge mess.

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7 hours ago, Winter Thorne said:

The lashing out is because the developers keep hearing people complain because they have no land and then putting in yet another system where they have no land.

That's probably because they don't want everyone to have land.

All pirate tales tell of island governors, good and bad. - is it bad to try and replicate this?

All communities need a leader, is every member of your company a leader? if not you are already in your eye's a slave or a slaver.

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I’m neither a slave or a slaver😎 that’s what we are trying to get across to you all, solo players are neither the slaves or the slavers, we can have a community without having a leader, we don’t need someone to give us directions because we are able think on our own. You should try it sometime, not everyone is a follower and wants someone to lead them, some of us travel our own paths and meet people along the way.  

The last tale of pirates I heard of was called Black Sails and I do believe they fought for freedom there to, there was a community but it was there as a trade city where pirates could trade stolen goods, Blackbeard lived on a island with his crew, my crew and I’m sure yours are as well are npc so they can live on the ships. So in our game I guess Freeport’s are the trade towns and everyone else should live on their own claim, not under someone else.

   I bet you were referring to Peter Pans tribe of misfits and we are all going to live happily under one person who tells us what to do.  Let’s see - Ah yes Pirates of the Caribbean- I don’t think they had little groups where they all cozy up and told bedtime stories either, they had a port they all went to though.

   I’m sorry I can think of several other pirates, Redbeard, Davey Jones and some others but you know I don’t think any of them would ever live under someone else.

None of them were followers and neither is your company leader. We don’t need dictators in the game, we need FREEDOM!!!

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