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Daemon Cross

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Your fantasy game of pirates and landlords cannot exist on PVE, you should go play PVP as there have been few complaints about the proposed system there.   Pirates need to fight and steal - they cannot do that on PVE.   Tenants need to revolt against their landlord, they need to coup their governer - they cannot do that on PVE.

There is no excuse for saying too many voices, the forums have been very clear in posts and confirmed in polls that easily 80% of PVE would be happy with the no build flag protections if it came with limits.   How many times does an MMO population ever ask for limits to be imposed?   That happens so rarely that this is absolutely feedback that must be listened to.

Anyone that knows these devs knows the one things they do respond to is server population.    So if you want them to listen about having flags with limits, the solution is simple.   Do not start a new PVE char on the new official PVE server.     Landlord wannabees will realize that it takes two to play out their fantasy of being governor.

 

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On 3/9/2019 at 8:41 PM, MisterMyztik said:

An MMO is not the same as a sandbox base for servers and modders to make work how they see fit.

An MMO requires a lead developer with a desired path/vision for the game and the ability to assess feedback from the community as it compares to the overall vision. 

An MMO cannot flip and flop at every breath of hot air which comes out of this side or that of the community.

 

There has to be a vision and a direction for the game.  Once that's set then the details have to be filled in about how to bring that vision to life.

 

35 minutes ago, Jack Shandy said:

They do have a goal for claims, and they have talked about it from the beginning.

They want landowners and tenants.

That's not part of the vision, that's part of the details.

Vision -  We want to make a mmo sandbox with a pirate theme that will accommodate both pvp and pve styles.  It should be exciting, dangerous, unexpected, and beautiful.

Details - Everything else.

I don't mean to trivialize the details.  That's where the devil is.  As to whether developers can flip and flop - on the vision, no.  On the details, yes.  But it's better that they not do that too much on the significant details.  Why do they flip and flop in the first place?  Because they have made a mistake on a detail, the players don't like it, it has unexpected consequences, etc.  The better the decision making gets, the fewer flips and flops you have.

I taught classes on formal methods for problem solving and decision making for a while.  There's a number of steps to decision making, and in the end you pick one of the choices and make a decision.  But that's not the last step.  The last step is asking "What could possibly go wrong?", then working out ways to mitigate all those things beforehand, so when/if they happen, you already know what you'll do about them and are not running around with your hair on fire.

I suspect the devs are not doing this, but if they are, they could handle some of this forum and discord angst by explaining the decision,  explaining the potential drawbacks and how they'd handle them, maybe giving a reason or two that other choices were discarded -  the engine wouldn't handle that, the numbers don't support it, etc.  As it stands, it just looks like they are making decisions badly and having to change them again and again.

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The vision as you state it has not really been in question, where as the "vision" of the details are.

Some want no landlords.

Some want no tenants.

Some want all to be pirates.

The devs vision seems to be a balance of all of the above.

Is it a vision or a detail? And does it really matter?

What would help is a clearer direction statement from the devs so we could make suggestions in that direction, rather than guess or suggest things they just won't consider.

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35 minutes ago, Jack Shandy said:

The vision as you state it has not really been in question, where as the "vision" of the details are.

Some want no landlords.

Some want no tenants.

Some want all to be pirates.

The devs vision seems to be a balance of all of the above.

Is it a vision or a detail? And does it really matter?

What would help is a clearer direction statement from the devs so we could make suggestions in that direction, rather than guess or suggest things they just won't consider.

Those things aren't part of a "vision", they're part of someone's solution.  Nobody starts out to make a pirate game with one of the goals being landlords and tenants.

Vision/Decision -  players can build structures and ships and bases and we'll include whole skill lines to enable them to do that

Analysis/Problem - the system we've made for having land doesn't let all the players have land to use those skill lines

Fix - Lawless

New Problem - Lawless is a disgusting mess and the players are griefing each other.  Players are unhappy.

New fix - new claim system, landlords, renters, upkeep

New problem -  Players don't like landlords, this doesn't fix the 1st problem of spam, etc etc....

 

So this is not the Devs trying to implement some vision of landlords.  This is the devs trying to implement a vision of players building things using the skill trees in the game.  They'd abandon landlords in a heartbeat if they came up with a better workable idea of how to handle the land and building issue.  The problem seems to be that they don't iterate over the fixes with the "what could go wrong?" process and try to prevent that enough.  (Also, I think their vision might include higher structures of organization, and they are trying to use landlords to do that as well as fixing the land problem, but it doesn't work well for either, really.)

 

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I’m against someone owning land and renting it to me, I’m against a upkeep cost, the taxation on materials never bothered me because I never paid it no attention. I needed x amounts of y and continued to gather that until it was completed. Once all gathering was done then I moved on. 

   Now I owned my claims and I gave claims away, I didn’t rent or allow public building, my land was mine to do what I wanted in the area I had, didn’t matter if I chose to use the entire space or only a part of it, it was there for my convenience and that is why I liked claim flags. Now the claim flags was abused by design and the devs encouraged that behavior but there was players who chose to be kind and share with others and there were players who wanted everything they could get with no intentions of doing anything with it except keeping someone else from having it.

  The fix was simple, they chose to make it complicated 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Winter Thorne said:

Those things aren't part of a "vision", they're part of someone's solution.  Nobody starts out to make a pirate game with one of the goals being landlords and tenants.

Vision/Decision -  players can build structures and ships and bases and we'll include whole skill lines to enable them to do that

Analysis/Problem - the system we've made for having land doesn't let all the players have land to use those skill lines

Fix - Lawless

New Problem - Lawless is a disgusting mess and the players are griefing each other.  Players are unhappy.

New fix - new claim system, landlords, renters, upkeep

New problem -  Players don't like landlords, this doesn't fix the 1st problem of spam, etc etc....

 

So this is not the Devs trying to implement some vision of landlords.  This is the devs trying to implement a vision of players building things using the skill trees in the game.  They'd abandon landlords in a heartbeat if they came up with a better workable idea of how to handle the land and building issue.  The problem seems to be that they don't iterate over the fixes with the "what could go wrong?" process and try to prevent that enough.  (Also, I think their vision might include higher structures of organization, and they are trying to use landlords to do that as well as fixing the land problem, but it doesn't work well for either, really.)

 

Actually landlords/tenants were part of the vision all along.

Below I copied and pasted the description of the game in Steam, but the part to pay attention to in this case is the "Claim What's Yours" part.

Quote

Form a company, claim territory and apply taxation and behavior rules to that which you own: be a benevolent governor, a feudal lord, or a ruthless dictator. Territory ownership is visualized on your dynamic zoomable World Map, with Fog of War obscuring uncharted regions and Shroud of War hiding enemy territories out of sight range. Contest other government's ownership of land, structures, or ships to expand your empire! The top large-scale Spheres of Influence on the Official ATLAS' are visualized in real-time on the PlayATLAS homepage. Design your own custom flag per-pixel to apply to your claims, to be famous (or infamous)!

 

This is why I don't get why so many people say they didn't start playing this game to have a landlord or pay taxes to someone. At times, I feel like I'm the only one that actually read the game description before buying it.

 

Full Description:

 

“ATLAS is one of the most ambitious online worlds of all time and while everything we have listed in the feature section will be there around Early Access launch, we are going to need the feedback, insight, and creativity of the game players to build on that foundation and balance the game optimally over a period of time.”

 

MMO On the Grandest Scale

Physically sail in real-time across the vast oceans with the proprietary server network technology. Explorers will voyage to over 700 unique landmasses across 45,000 square kilometers, with thousands of Discovery Zones, and ten distinct world regions each having their own unique resources, creatures, secrets, and environment hazards! There is a separate PvE ATLAS for players who don't wish to play any PVP.

Construct the Ship of Your Dreams, Plank by Plank!

Build drydocks and start with a dinghy rowboat, basic raft, tiny sloop or nimble schooner, moving on up to your own versatile brigantine or titanic galleon capable of transporting hundreds of crew and extensive cargo. Name your ship in big bold letters, paint and copy your own pirate flag and custom-place all the pieces of your ship -- which sails and where, planks and gunports, every single structure piece has a physical Weight and Material -- to function exactly how you want.

Captain your Crew!

Recruit real players and AI crew from freeports or rescue seasoned crew from destroyed “Army of the Damned” shipwrecks to man distinct stations on your boat! Set sail and explore the ATLAS with them to gain experience and level up their stats or gear, as well as levelling your Ship. Your crew are versatile! Whether on land, or ship, or even riding behind your animal companions on emplacements, they can man weapons of all kinds-- cannons, swivel guns, siege engines, turrets, and even gigantic mortars, many with dynamically swappable ammo types including grapeshot, chainshot, spikeshot, liquid fire, and more! Instruct them to board enemy ships and help you conquer the seas! Keep their stomachs full and their pockets full of gold lest you want a mutiny in your hands! Take on the Captain’s Wheel or divide up the command responsibilities via Lieutenant Podiums to direct the Ship’s assignable weapon systems, sails, and stations, including standing-orders or manual grouped fire. Or, walk up to any station and take control of it yourself!

Pirate PVP to the Limit

Everything is up for grabs including player’s ships, their crew, their pets, their forts, their land, and their booty. If you can get your hands on it, you can take it. A ship’s permanent logbook tells the tale of their legendary travel, exploits and ownership.

Be the Hero or Villain you were meant to be

MMO-scale character progression systems include, at launch, over 15 Disciplines with over 300 Skills, in a vast unlockable tree. New "Feat" system allows for active and passive bindable character abilities, while new stat-buff system allows innumerable abstract statistics to be modified by Skills, Items, and Armor. And now, everything has scalable stats, including structures, and can be progressively Upgraded!

This is Who You Are

Extensive character visual customization enables an endless range of realistic (and not-so-realistic) characters, with a vast array of sliders, morphs, muscle tones, and tweakable values. You can even per-pixel design your own permanent tattoos (and then draw warpaint on top of that too!). If someone exists in the real world, they should be creatable in ATLAS! Best-in-class dynamic hair growth and real-time aging systems allow you to get old and... pass on your legacy? (Or find a fountain of youth!).

Endless Adventure

Full Quest and Waypoint systems, with sub-quests and rewards, for major goals -- while procedural treasure maps and challenge zones also ensure there's always something new to find out over the horizon.

Intense Action

Tactical melee combat systems with blocks, parries, dodges, character motion, optional shields, stunning and strength-varying strikes, directional attacks, and more for use in either first or third person perspectives. Fists, swords, maces, blackjacks, daggers, and much more give you tremendous options to pick the right weapon for the job. Meanwhile, period-appropriate-weaponry with skill-based active reload systems include flintlock pistols, muskets, blunderbuss, and more -- just be sure to keep your powder dry!

Claim What's Yours

Form a company, claim territory and apply taxation and behavior rules to that which you own: be a benevolent governor, a feudal lord, or a ruthless dictator. Territory ownership is visualized on your dynamic zoomable World Map, with Fog of War obscuring uncharted regions and Shroud of War hiding enemy territories out of sight range. Contest other government's ownership of land, structures, or ships to expand your empire! The top large-scale Spheres of Influence on the Official ATLAS' are visualized in real-time on the PlayATLAS homepage. Design your own custom flag per-pixel to apply to your claims, to be famous (or infamous)!

Creatures Great and Small

More than 50 creatures at launch varying from breedable utilitarian farm animals & shoulder mounted parrots and monkeys that offer unique buffs, all the way to magical mermaids and gigantic sea monsters of legend. Creatures can be found in their logical regions, but take skill and tactics to tame using new mechanics, while also gaining the most benefit and fertility from their natural biomes. Ferry these temperamental creatures across the vast oceans in a virtual Noah's Ark to trade in exotic locales.

Freeports to Meet & Greet

Level-capped starter zones allow you to learn the ropes and meet new players in a safe space before you venture out into the great unknown. Where the wind and destiny takes you beyond that, is up to the gods!

Build Your Empire

Overhauled building systems include automatic foundational elevation adjustment, dynamic tile type swapping, improved snap detection & previewing, integrated plumbing systems, per-pixel-paintable everything, beast-of-burden harness attachments for field-gun and carriages, and much more! Survival systems newly include, among other aspects, Vitamins benefits and deficiencies, with recipe & cooking skills and varying ingredient qualities.

Powerful Mod and Server Functionalities

Want to build a World War II Spitfire? Or a Flying Fortress bomber with fully walkable interior and gun stations, carrying troops loaded with machine guns and rocket launchers? How about a Tank? An Aircraft Carrier to play out the Battle of Midway on an expansive scale? How about an Arcadian Steampunk Airship floating through a cloud-world? These examples and much more are provided with the ATLAS Dev Kit, where you can make effectively create whatever large-scale MMO action game you want to see happen, all supported by the database-driven network technology that powers ATLAS. Unofficial ATLAS' can be of any size and configuration, while a visual map tool lets server hosts layout their own complete custom world of islands, continents, terrain features, spawns, resources, hazards, underwater zones, dynamic weather, biome configurations, ecology, and an infinite number of other configurable features -- all dynamically streamed to the client during gameplay. The possibilities are endless!

Edited by Kidori
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11 minutes ago, Kidori said:

This is why I don't get why so many people say they didn't start playing this game to have a landlord or pay taxes to someone. At times, I feel like I'm the only one that actually read the game description before buying it.

Yup, all these people trying to derail the devs vision is sad, they aught to be helping them attain it. 

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5 minutes ago, Jack Shandy said:

 

Yup, all these people trying to derail the devs vision is sad, they aught to be helping them attain it. 

But what exactly is their vision?

I read all about this game before it was released. When I played it, it was nothing like that I had read or seen. They showed pictures of players in a busy city (I guess it was a freeport) trading stuff and doing things. The freeports are nothing like that. Instead at first they were a huge lag fest, then they were littered with bodies and the sound of snoring. Then abandoned ships, which now decay. Even the ships going there to try and buy something can decay if left too long.

They talked about being a landowner, but that dream was apparently only for the lucky few that got there before you.

I thought the game would be about exploring and building ships. Turns out you can't actually just own a ship easily without having a base to dock it at. If you are foolish enough to log out at sea, you are likely to come back to your ship being destroyed by a SotD.

I'm still optimistic about the game becoming something amazing, but it is very far from that right now. I'm actually probably going to take a break also like a lot of other people have already done.

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30 minutes ago, Kidori said:

Actually landlords/tenants were part of the vision all along.

Below I copied and pasted the description of the game in Steam, but the part to pay attention to in this case is the "Claim What's Yours" part.

 

This is why I don't get why so many people say they didn't start playing this game to have a landlord or pay taxes to someone. At times, I feel like I'm the only one that actually read the game description before buying it.

 

Full Description:

  Reveal hidden contents

“ATLAS is one of the most ambitious online worlds of all time and while everything we have listed in the feature section will be there around Early Access launch, we are going to need the feedback, insight, and creativity of the game players to build on that foundation and balance the game optimally over a period of time.”

 

MMO On the Grandest Scale

Physically sail in real-time across the vast oceans with the proprietary server network technology. Explorers will voyage to over 700 unique landmasses across 45,000 square kilometers, with thousands of Discovery Zones, and ten distinct world regions each having their own unique resources, creatures, secrets, and environment hazards! There is a separate PvE ATLAS for players who don't wish to play any PVP.

Construct the Ship of Your Dreams, Plank by Plank!

Build drydocks and start with a dinghy rowboat, basic raft, tiny sloop or nimble schooner, moving on up to your own versatile brigantine or titanic galleon capable of transporting hundreds of crew and extensive cargo. Name your ship in big bold letters, paint and copy your own pirate flag and custom-place all the pieces of your ship -- which sails and where, planks and gunports, every single structure piece has a physical Weight and Material -- to function exactly how you want.

Captain your Crew!

Recruit real players and AI crew from freeports or rescue seasoned crew from destroyed “Army of the Damned” shipwrecks to man distinct stations on your boat! Set sail and explore the ATLAS with them to gain experience and level up their stats or gear, as well as levelling your Ship. Your crew are versatile! Whether on land, or ship, or even riding behind your animal companions on emplacements, they can man weapons of all kinds-- cannons, swivel guns, siege engines, turrets, and even gigantic mortars, many with dynamically swappable ammo types including grapeshot, chainshot, spikeshot, liquid fire, and more! Instruct them to board enemy ships and help you conquer the seas! Keep their stomachs full and their pockets full of gold lest you want a mutiny in your hands! Take on the Captain’s Wheel or divide up the command responsibilities via Lieutenant Podiums to direct the Ship’s assignable weapon systems, sails, and stations, including standing-orders or manual grouped fire. Or, walk up to any station and take control of it yourself!

Pirate PVP to the Limit

Everything is up for grabs including player’s ships, their crew, their pets, their forts, their land, and their booty. If you can get your hands on it, you can take it. A ship’s permanent logbook tells the tale of their legendary travel, exploits and ownership.

Be the Hero or Villain you were meant to be

MMO-scale character progression systems include, at launch, over 15 Disciplines with over 300 Skills, in a vast unlockable tree. New "Feat" system allows for active and passive bindable character abilities, while new stat-buff system allows innumerable abstract statistics to be modified by Skills, Items, and Armor. And now, everything has scalable stats, including structures, and can be progressively Upgraded!

This is Who You Are

Extensive character visual customization enables an endless range of realistic (and not-so-realistic) characters, with a vast array of sliders, morphs, muscle tones, and tweakable values. You can even per-pixel design your own permanent tattoos (and then draw warpaint on top of that too!). If someone exists in the real world, they should be creatable in ATLAS! Best-in-class dynamic hair growth and real-time aging systems allow you to get old and... pass on your legacy? (Or find a fountain of youth!).

Endless Adventure

Full Quest and Waypoint systems, with sub-quests and rewards, for major goals -- while procedural treasure maps and challenge zones also ensure there's always something new to find out over the horizon.

Intense Action

Tactical melee combat systems with blocks, parries, dodges, character motion, optional shields, stunning and strength-varying strikes, directional attacks, and more for use in either first or third person perspectives. Fists, swords, maces, blackjacks, daggers, and much more give you tremendous options to pick the right weapon for the job. Meanwhile, period-appropriate-weaponry with skill-based active reload systems include flintlock pistols, muskets, blunderbuss, and more -- just be sure to keep your powder dry!

Claim What's Yours

Form a company, claim territory and apply taxation and behavior rules to that which you own: be a benevolent governor, a feudal lord, or a ruthless dictator. Territory ownership is visualized on your dynamic zoomable World Map, with Fog of War obscuring uncharted regions and Shroud of War hiding enemy territories out of sight range. Contest other government's ownership of land, structures, or ships to expand your empire! The top large-scale Spheres of Influence on the Official ATLAS' are visualized in real-time on the PlayATLAS homepage. Design your own custom flag per-pixel to apply to your claims, to be famous (or infamous)!

Creatures Great and Small

More than 50 creatures at launch varying from breedable utilitarian farm animals & shoulder mounted parrots and monkeys that offer unique buffs, all the way to magical mermaids and gigantic sea monsters of legend. Creatures can be found in their logical regions, but take skill and tactics to tame using new mechanics, while also gaining the most benefit and fertility from their natural biomes. Ferry these temperamental creatures across the vast oceans in a virtual Noah's Ark to trade in exotic locales.

Freeports to Meet & Greet

Level-capped starter zones allow you to learn the ropes and meet new players in a safe space before you venture out into the great unknown. Where the wind and destiny takes you beyond that, is up to the gods!

Build Your Empire

Overhauled building systems include automatic foundational elevation adjustment, dynamic tile type swapping, improved snap detection & previewing, integrated plumbing systems, per-pixel-paintable everything, beast-of-burden harness attachments for field-gun and carriages, and much more! Survival systems newly include, among other aspects, Vitamins benefits and deficiencies, with recipe & cooking skills and varying ingredient qualities.

Powerful Mod and Server Functionalities

Want to build a World War II Spitfire? Or a Flying Fortress bomber with fully walkable interior and gun stations, carrying troops loaded with machine guns and rocket launchers? How about a Tank? An Aircraft Carrier to play out the Battle of Midway on an expansive scale? How about an Arcadian Steampunk Airship floating through a cloud-world? These examples and much more are provided with the ATLAS Dev Kit, where you can make effectively create whatever large-scale MMO action game you want to see happen, all supported by the database-driven network technology that powers ATLAS. Unofficial ATLAS' can be of any size and configuration, while a visual map tool lets server hosts layout their own complete custom world of islands, continents, terrain features, spawns, resources, hazards, underwater zones, dynamic weather, biome configurations, ecology, and an infinite number of other configurable features -- all dynamically streamed to the client during gameplay. The possibilities are endless!

I know that when I read that, and when probably everyone else read it, they envisioned themselves as the landlord, not the tenant. The reality that the majority of players need to be tenants and not landlords is the harsh reality of this game that no one likes.

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Being an islands admin won't be to everyone's taste.

That's why I like the idea of the new system, and will happily try both landlord and tenant if I get the chance.

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Posted (edited)

“Actually landlords/tenants were part of the vision all along.

Below I copied and pasted the description of the game in Steam, but the part to pay attention to in this case is the "Claim What's Yours" part.” Kitori

 

If your read into it more, that design was for pvp not pve- in pvp you can challenge for ownership of land and contest claims, in PVE you can not so how does one justify who becomes governor or lord of land other then who gets their 1st or griefs someone else into leaving?

Edited by Daemon Cross
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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Daemon Cross said:

“Actually landlords/tenants were part of the vision all along.

Below I copied and pasted the description of the game in Steam, but the part to pay attention to in this case is the "Claim What's Yours" part.” Kitori

 

If your read into it more, that design was for pvp not pve- in pvp you can challenge for ownership of land and contest claims, in PVE you can not so how does one justify who becomes governor or lord of land other then who gets their 1st or griefs someone else into leaving?

Now you're asking the right question.

How can the system the developers want best be implemented in a PvE environment without sacrificing their vision?

Part of the vision includes being able to challenge the lands of other governments. That seems like an important piece that's missing.

Edited by Kidori

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52 minutes ago, Daemon Cross said:

“Actually landlords/tenants were part of the vision all along.

Below I copied and pasted the description of the game in Steam, but the part to pay attention to in this case is the "Claim What's Yours" part.” Kitori

 

If your read into it more, that design was for pvp not pve- in pvp you can challenge for ownership of land and contest claims, in PVE you can not so how does one justify who becomes governor or lord of land other then who gets their 1st or griefs someone else into leaving?

In addition, I can guarantee you that when someone considering whether to buy the game reads this:

Form a company, claim territory and apply taxation and behavior rules to that which you own: be a benevolent governor, a feudal lord, or a ruthless dictator. 

They are thinking that THEY can do those things.  They are not thinking this -

If you are one of the first 100 people to enter the game, beat the bugs and the lag and build a ship, you can claim territory and apply taxation and behavior rules to that which you own: be a benevolent governor, a feudal lord, or a ruthless dictator.   Some of the rest of you will be lucky enough to live under a benevolent governor, some of you may have to endure a feudal lord, and unfortunately the rest of you will have to live under a ruthless dictator.

So if that was part of the vision for pve, that's a terrible vision.  Maybe they should have used some more of the formal decision process on that.

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4 minutes ago, Winter Thorne said:

So if that was part of the vision for pve, that's a terrible vision.  Maybe they should have used some more of the formal decision process on that.

The system needs more work, to be sure. It's important to keep in mind that this is just the first iteration of the system. The foundation is just now being placed down. It's arguable that it should have been there from the beginning, but that's neither here nor there.

Calling it a terrible system that hasn't even been implemented yet isn't constructive. Instead, suggesting how to flesh it out in future updates should be the community's goal. Monthly elections, challenge by combat, economic takeovers, that kind of thing.

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where the OP been? not playing much i dont think this is a really old news, everyone has been requesting since day 1. We even reported streaming of cheating going on, so they made a new game instead...Right.....

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27 minutes ago, Kidori said:

The system needs more work, to be sure. It's important to keep in mind that this is just the first iteration of the system. The foundation is just now being placed down. It's arguable that it should have been there from the beginning, but that's neither here nor there.

Calling it a terrible system that hasn't even been implemented yet isn't constructive. Instead, suggesting how to flesh it out in future updates should be the community's goal. Monthly elections, challenge by combat, economic takeovers, that kind of thing.

???  This is not the first iteration of the system.

Somebody sits down to design a game and doesn't consider these things?  Somebody works out a design for the initial claim system and nobody says, "uh, guys...unlimited claims is a bad idea on pve."?  

It's not arguable that it should have been there from the beginning.  It's laughable that it wasn't.  Come on, I can understand being a bit off the mark and needing some tweaks, but seriously...that was game design malpractice.  Nobody ever asked, "What could possibly go wrong?".

And it's not "a terrible system that hasn't been implemented yet",   A terrible system was implemented, a terrible fix was implemented, a terrible fix was announced and implementation is impending,  The community has made a TON of suggestions, but rather than suggesting how to fix this fix to the fix, they are suggesting how it should have been done in the first place, before the solution gets so convoluted and complex and contains so many rules about this and that that the possibilities for unexpected consequences become astronomical, and the code becomes impossible to ever change again.

There's a huge difference between sitting down with a team and brainstorming an idea, challenging the idea to make sure there aren't any glaring drawbacks, and then test deploying it...or just "having an idea" and throwing it at the wall to see what sticks.  The players are actually doing the former.  It really looks like the devs are doing the latter.

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To be completely honest, when I read the game description that you all keep bringing up it never dawned on me they were referring to governing real people, I thought I would be able to hire npc’s to place on my land and be over them.

  In a sense you could do just that, in your claim you could have placed npc’s your stores, post office, working elevators at your motels.  The infrastructure was there but with the other issues going on with the game few of those ideas ever got used.  I know I had a npc manning a elevator on my barn, it was up in the air several stories and it worked good, I had plans to use another at a rock behind my base to man a lift system to the top for hang gliding.

  I had a ton of ideas that I kept wanting to experiment with, that’s probably why I never left base much, I was always reconfiguring my ideas and once the wipe was announced I personally no longer cared, then reading the Captains Log and patch notes and seeing them say this is the 1st wipe and there would be more if any major changes had to be made really made me care even less.

   Like so many others who lived in the desert region we all dealt with enough to deal with losing it all to a wipe.  I didn’t know it could be so peaceful in other biomes, hell I honestly thought everyone was dealing with alphas like we were, snakes like we were, scorpions, crocs, lions and wolves like we were. I really understand why some people thought I was just complaining a lot because they really had no idea how bad it is.

   I’m really just dumbfounded that the biomes were that much different. 

   You know I’ve praised the developers on such an awesome game and I’ve talked shit about them to because of choices they’ve made that I just couldn’t understand and may never understand. But with that said I still log in every single day and play for a few hours each evening and long periods of time on the weekends because I enjoy the game, I’m not saying it’s a polished product by no means but honestly it’s ok.

  Now with the new system coming out and it may or may not last, no one really knows. I’ll continue to play but if the system gets to a point that I feel it’s more of a pvp game then a pve, then my days of playing will be over.  I don’t log in to bully someone or be bullied by someone, I have no desire to listen to someone’s mouth trolling me nor would I ever do that to someone.  I know Dollie enjoys that aspect of the game because she has openly admitted to it, Jat on the other hand has as far as I know has not ever openly admitted to liking to troll people. So there is still hope as far as I’m concerned for the pve side of the game, there might not be but a twinkle but it’s there.

 

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7 hours ago, krazmuze said:

the forums have been very clear in posts and confirmed in polls that easily 80% of PVE would be happy with the no build flag protections if it came with limits. 

When the heck did that poll go up? Never saw it and I was watching the forums all the time before the announcement. I do question the 80% number since, well lets face it 80% of all statistics are made up on the spot. I think a 5 flag limit per player is fair and is what they should have done. No flags is going to be a disaster will change the building dynamic of the game. I enjoy the building aspect of the game, but if I do play after the wipe, Ill most likely stick to the seas. trying to build will be like ark. some schmuck will come in and build right where the best resources are and keep them from spawning or worse, build blocking you in. This will end up as Ark part 2 with the spamming too. I left and went unofficial in Ark because of all of it. These changes come at really bad timing too.  Bunch of new games coming out.

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1 hour ago, Daemon Cross said:

So there is still hope as far as I’m concerned for the pve side of the game, there might not be but a twinkle but it’s there.

Honestly I think the hope lies in one thing only in the upcoming iteration of the game: The diversity of landlords.

If they're all dicks, then there's not much hope. If they're all mega companies or small companies, then there's not much hope. If they all decide anarchy is the way of the land or order or controlled chaos, then there's not much hope. Too much of any one thing will be bad.

If, on the other hand, the land owners are diverse and all want to run their islands in different ways, then I think we'll start to see some major improvements. People will start coming together and living together with other like-minded people, communities will form and everyone will have a place that feels a lot more homey than the game currently does. Communities are what make good MMOs great, and honestly this game's community in general could really use more cohesion.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, =MGC=Ranger said:

When the heck did that poll go up?...Ill most likely stick to the seas. trying to build will be like ark. 

Given how awful search is not going to try to find it but there have been a couple and indeed those who wanted flag limits overwhelmed those who wanted lawless or landlords.       Polling is how the devs (the polls was unofficials forum threads) should be doing things rather than listening to the loudest voice in discord and twitter.   If you go by forum posters you would think it would evenly split, but those in the vocal minority had the clear opportunity to vote against flag limits same as those who voted for it.   

Do not try to base on seas - you can no longer have your farm on ship and tames on ships have a habit of drowning or flying or vanishing.

 

 

Edited by krazmuze

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I posted how I think they should fix it here.

~Lotus

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1 hour ago, krazmuze said:

Do not try to base on seas - you can no longer have your farm on ship and tames on ships have a habit of drowning or flying or vanishing.

I do wish that it was a more viable option to live at sea. As it stands it's just not feasible.

I had built and rented out some prefab rooms on cliff platforms for people wanting to live at sea though. Just a place to store loot and a small number of tames. I think I'll be doing that again after the wipe.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, wildbill said:

But what exactly is their vision?

I read all about this game before it was released. When I played it, it was nothing like that I had read or seen. They showed pictures of players in a busy city (I guess it was a freeport) trading stuff and doing things

This is a vision. 

One thing players in a sandbox need to recognise is they need to be part of the creative process. Its on us to use the tools provided by the devs to create something (community/construction/economy). Yes, we need better tools in order to do this.. but don't demand that it be constructed for you, that is not a sandbox.

 

 

6 hours ago, Kidori said:

Honestly I think the hope lies in one thing only in the upcoming iteration of the game: The diversity of landlords.

..............Too much of any one thing will be bad.

If, on the other hand, the land owners are diverse and all want to run their islands in different ways, then I think we'll start to see some major improvements. 

I share your vision/hope.

Can we get the PTR now please? .... I'm extremely concerned this game will not wake up from an extended stasis like this. These numbers are not a good sight. 

image.thumb.png.0ccd392de42bb8f94b43e79f150be6df.png

Edited by MisterMyztik

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Posted (edited)

I don't know whats more shocking, the fact they felt it was good idea to announce a wipe almost a month prior to it being planned or the lack of a PTS at this late stage. Maybe they should have thrown in 2 hat cosmetics to keep people playing 😉

I think @Jatheish needs to take a back seat and get someone a little bit more passionate in charge. This game barely has any players left, they're adding more content which is completely pointless, ignoring suggestion being made by the few people that have stuck it out. And too top it off they acting as if everything is going great...

Maybe they should just close the forums, they're pretty pointless at this stage with the almost complete lack of Dev interaction. Force everyone to join the official discord channel or follow their twitter account instead. Assuming there's anyone left in 6 months time.

 

Edited by LoneXS

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, LoneXS said:

I think @Jatheish needs to take a back seat and get someone a little bit more passionate in charge

Dont shoot the messanger!

Edited by Kummba
trypo

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