Cannon balancing.

[Lifedragn 18]

1 hour ago, Sneakydude said:

I already posted the constructive things, above. Your asking for swivel large cannons and its a no. If your asking for 2 ppl to run cannons, its a no. We have not enough players willing to do the ship battles as it is. Spread thin to do their own things. Blackwake is a better example of a ship game, more organized, more involved with that whole cannon, repair, and it is pretty low on numbers. Its not based on your "own" crew its based on scrubs joining and that's why it failed.

I see you speaking of what large cannons were in the real world, but no discussion on how you would see them balanced to improve the ship combat meta.

Large Cannons at present do not have enough negatives to account for their power. Thus the discussion on balancing them. Real world facts do not bring game balance. But they can inspire it. My idea for two crew to operate a large cannon was inspired by your statement that large cannons required multiple operators. Weird swivel discussions aside, we are looking for ways to make Large Cannon vs Ship Cannon a meaningful choice. As it stands, the swivel and gunport of the ship cannon does not measure up to a meaningful choice against the benefit of having both power and range.

Edited March 28, 2019 by Lifedragn

[Sneakydude 143]

8 hours ago, Lifedragn said:

I see you speaking of what large cannons were in the real world, but no discussion on how you would see them balanced to improve the ship combat meta.

Large Cannons at present do not have enough negatives to account for their power. Thus the discussion on balancing them. Real world facts do not bring game balance. But they can inspire it. My idea for two crew to operate a large cannon was inspired by your statement that large cannons required multiple operators. Weird swivel discussions aside, we are looking for ways to make Large Cannon vs Ship Cannon a meaningful choice. As it stands, the swivel and gunport of the ship cannon does not measure up to a meaningful choice against the benefit of having both power and range.

I am not sure the large cannon really needs to be changed, or the medium ship cannon. I personally, think its play style and the ability to get upgraded cannon mats and materials to build those upgraded things are the biggest concern right now why you feel cannons of larger grade needs to be changed.

What i see is players building to standard ship builds and they lose in the sea to upgraded ships that the megas are able to obtain through clearly taking over territories.

I have played on both official and un official with the ability to farm materials to upgrade to mythical pieces. Ships with standard calb are underrated so badly they can lose 4 planks in one hit. Standard cannons can also do the same with higher teir cannons.

I also was on un official this past couple of weeks and was able to use the admin console cheats to try the higher teir 600% cannons and i feel they are very powerful.

 

However based on some of the facts i have read and continue to read, we do not have all the info about you or how others captain a ship so why do they need to be changed again if they are working very well?

Be a better captain i say.

My opinion so dont take it wrongly.

 

The only thing i see as a problem, is the fact the cannons might need a balance of weight, is it too light for the ships and they are able to carry 20+ on the rear side of the ship. I also see the problem with building ceilings out side of the ship, snapping of stuff is out of control.

 

Real life plays a very important role on the ship types, weight, and the uses of the correct era of cannons. Without those facts we may not be able to balance out the meta we currently see.

 

 

[libbbio 0]

I fully agree, Large Cannons have to be modified.  Shorter range, less accurancy, and a maximum number of them on a ship.

for example consider stern large cannons LIMITATIONS:

on a schooner max 1 stern large cannon on a fixed spot/position. ( you cannot have 8 large cannons on a back of a schooner....).(same for bow large cannons).

on a brig: max 2 stern large cannons on a fixed spot/position.(same for bow large cannons).

on a gally: max 4 stern large cannons on a fixed spot/position.(same for bow large cannons).

so if u have a faster ship u can have the possibility to reach your target and fight it(takeing some damage, not ista-sink). If u have 8-4 large cannons on the back u sure no 1, even if have a faster ship engage u. this is not FAIR NOR FUNNY!

NOW SIDES LIMITATIONS:

right now no 1 use anymore medim gunport guns and medium cannons..... why they exists??? so let them be part of the game again.

on a schooner: max 2, each side, on a fixed positions large cannons.

on a brig: max 3, each side, on a fixed positions large cannons.

on a gally: max 6, each side, on a fixed positions large cannons.

For my point of view: outsides gunports ANY CANNONS it should have the 300% 400% weight. to force the limitation. 

ANOTHER THING TO CONSIDER IS THE WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION:

the ship can have an unbalace weight distribution limitation.  not easy to explain but i can try.

All the stuff on the ship: resource box, smithy, cannonballs box, CANNONS, CONSTRUCTIONS; have to be balanced on the weight. 

this limitation can help to avoid only 1 side costruction on ships, to many cannons on stern/back. the ship will soaring( i dont know if is it the right word). 

i hope you guys found this interesting. let me know.

 

have a good day waiting for the new patch.

 

Libbbio

 

 

[Captain Jack Shadow 488]

On 3/26/2019 at 11:35 PM, Sneakydude said:

24 pound cannons on ships and 32&36 pounders on shore. Large cannons used a pulley type system to hoist them to the gun ports, they did not swivel.

Large cannons where too heavy and required more then a couple people to arm, fire them.

So without reading all the swivel gun cannon meta we have what and why would someone want swivel on large cannons for? to even more kill everything around them solo?

 

I didn't suggest swivel on ship based large cannons, I suggested it for shore based large cannons, which is historically accurate for large cannons in fortifications.

The concept is there.  Cannons on shore need to be able to swivel.  You can't turn the fort to aim the cannons.

[Sneakydude 143]

1 hour ago, Captain Jack Shadow said:

I didn't suggest swivel on ship based large cannons, I suggested it for shore based large cannons, which is historically accurate for large cannons in fortifications.

The concept is there.  Cannons on shore need to be able to swivel.  You can't turn the fort to aim the cannons.

Awesome find, exactly what should be looked at on shore, you misunderstood what i said. Swivel are not on ships, to this day i have not seen proof there was of a large cannon ever with a swivel mount system because they took up too much room and at 32 pounds too much weight to carry too many of them.

On shore defenses maybe need a slight revamp in directional aim. I am looking at those cannons more closely and the only thing i see is medium, long range type but not the seriously mounted large cannons. Here is another type fort image that seems to be pretty standard. Mounted systems to absorb the shock due to the shear size of the cannon.

 

Edited March 29, 2019 by Sneakydude

[Sneakydude 143]

Found it, the one i was saying should be slightly used. 15 degree left to right at most? and should be slow turning slightly. Need to find out the caliber of this beast.

This image better explains the 1600's era Try not to mix in out of era weapons, however the devs already did that with Subs... so it doesn't matter what we say this isn't really a pirate game anymore.

Edited March 29, 2019 by Sneakydude

[scrublord 1]

Those who follow the "META" of stacking large cannons make for an easy target. I don't understand why people complain about it. It is one of the easiest "META" choices to overcome if you are fighting this ship type. Try using your head and you will see the many flaws of stacking large cannons. This will allow you to create tactics to overcome this terrible choice. Blind spots can be abused by smaller ships to sink these. TPG has multiple videos of a schooner taking out galleons who stacked there cannons this way its hilarious. also you have so many cannons so you can "PLANK" a ship quickly this logic is a fallacy. Stacking your cannons to plank my ship will amount to effectively nothing since my repair people have all the correct cooldown's to shorten the time to replace planks. This also allows me to switch sides and continue the fight as that side gets repaired to full all under a minute. My group only use medium cannons because of the cyclic fire rate with cooldown's allows us to put 100 to 300 cannonballs into a ship in 1 to 2 passes this also spreads the damage across a majority of the ship so instead of repair men working on a single plank (or more) in a small area they must repair the ship in it's entirety. Basically overall I grow tired of children saying the game should change to their idea of a balanced system instead of figuring out methods to improve your own gameplay (Just because everyone else jumps off the bridge should you do it also). 

TPG #1

Trash inserted #2 and Below

Edited March 29, 2019 by scrublord

[znasser 81]

6 hours ago, libbbio said:

so if u have a faster ship u can have the possibility to reach your target and fight it(takeing some damage, not ista-sink). If u have 8-4 large cannons on the back u sure no 1, even if have a faster ship engage u. this is not FAIR NOR FUNNY!

We had dozens of 1vs1 brig  fights against 8 or more back cannons , mainly because everybody and his mom think its a great idea, and we haven't had any problems to fight them, and we sucessfully sunk several of them. 

[Sneakydude 143]

3 minutes ago, scrublord said:

Those who follow the "META" of stacking large cannons make for an easy target. I don't understand why people complain about it. It is one of the easiest "META" choices to overcome if you are fighting this ship type. Try using your head and you will see the many flaws of stacking large cannons. This will allow you to create tactics to overcome this terrible choice. Blind spots can be abused by smaller ships to sink these. TPG has multiple videos of a schooner taking out galleons who stacked there cannons this way its hilarious. also you have so many cannons so you can "PLANK" a ship quickly this logic is a fallacy. Stacking your cannons to plank my ship will amount to effectively nothing since my repair people have all the correct cooldown's to shorten the time to replace planks. This also allows me to switch sides and continue the fight as that side gets repaired to full all under a minute. My group only use medium cannons because of the cyclic fire rate with cooldown's allows us to put 100 to 300 cannonballs into a ship in 1 to 2 passes this also spreads the damage across a majority of the ship so instead of repair men working on a single plank (or more) in a small area they must repair the ship in it's entirety. Basically overall I grow tired of children saying the game should change to their idea of a balanced system instead of figuring out methods to improve your own gameplay (Just because everyone else jumps off the bridge should you do it also). 

There is a slight balance to be had its the amount of those large cannons vrs speed. Weight matters.

[znasser 81]

16 minutes ago, Sneakydude said:

There is a slight balance to be had its the amount of those large cannons vrs speed. Weight matters.

Id be careful to balance the cannons changing weights, ship cannons already have a huge advantage in weight, there have been bufs and nerfs, and people still don't use them. 

[Lifedragn 18]

3 hours ago, Sneakydude said:

 

This image better explains the 1600's era Try not to mix in out of era weapons, however the devs already did that with Subs... so it doesn't matter what we say this isn't really a pirate game anymore.

 

It never really was a pirate game. It was a trade and exploration game left open for piracy as content. Also, all kinds of technology is likely to be recovered through the course of the game as the introductory lore backstory speaks of us all being descendants of those who survived their advanced civilization falling from the sky ages ago and entering an era where technology regressed. 

[libbbio 0]

 

so if u have a faster ship u can have the possibility to reach your target and fight it(takeing some damage, not ista-sink). If u have 8-4 large cannons on the back u sure no 1, even if have a faster ship engage u. this is not FAIR NOR FUNNY!

We had dozens of 1vs1 brig  fights against 8 or more back cannons , mainly because everybody and his mom think its a great idea, and we haven't had any problems to fight them, and we sucessfully sunk several of them. 

 

as i said before i disagree....

 

is impossible to chase any ship, BRIG or Schooner, specially a schooner that is small and fast ship.
if u reach him whit ur sidecannons(gunports). he turn left or right and give u his volley and still run. but im sure u know how to fight better then me and sunk every ships whit 4 or more  Large cannons on the stern.
 

im still convinced the limitation can be e great balance in the building of the ships. 

 

 

[DocHolliday 366]

Sure they can turn away.  I chase them so they are forced to turn into the wind.  Doesn't work out that way for them.

[scrublord 1]

Why is this post still going it has already been shown that your drive for balance is your failure to adapt to situations. The only solution for this would be for you to stop breeding and to help humanity by allowing your genes to die out.

[Captain Jack Shadow 488]

5 hours ago, scrublord said:

Why is this post still going it has already been shown that your drive for balance is your failure to adapt to situations. The only solution for this would be for you to stop breeding and to help humanity by allowing your genes to die out.

You stop posting and let the grown ups do the talking.

This post is nothing but a reaction to most people using nothing but large cannons, as well as noting that improvements can be made.  This IS after all, an EA game.  Many changes will come to the game, mostly due to feedback by those who play it.  Like it or not, the large cannons have all of the advantages except one...the inability to swivel, which means little when the AI is handling the range acquisition. 

Amount of structures in the game has a negative affect on the game performance, when the number of structures is too high.  Allowing large cannons to swivel some, would allow us to reduce the number we need for port defense, because the cannons can cover more area.

So there are things that can be discussed, and improved.  You should leave the critical thinking to those who actually can.

[Sneakydude 143]

7 hours ago, scrublord said:

Why is this post still going it has already been shown that your drive for balance is your failure to adapt to situations. The only solution for this would be for you to stop breeding and to help humanity by allowing your genes to die out.

wtf?

[Bullet Force 151]

If you ask me they need to up the velocity of the cannon shots. Currently the velocity is incredibly low which means if you are chasing someone and they have rear cannons (which they most likely will) its quite hard to be effective since in most cases your shots will be falling short while theirs will not be. This could be somewhat alleviated by upping the velocity and in general I think the overall range should be increased so that players that can aim well can engage at longer ranges while still having the risk of missing a lot of the time.