Why claims are needed.

[Winter Thorne 696]

8 hours ago, José Gaspar said:

The math simply does not work.,   Industry averages are 10% of players are active at any time, the peak will be about 25% so if they every really plan to have 40K players in game at once you are talking about 150K claims.   there is not enough room for 150K land claims on map.  I am not sure there is enough for 40K claims on map that do not overlap.

I"m not sure where you're getting the 10% from.  Game companies typically don't release info on the total number of active players, although you can get the numbers for total subscriptions sold and concurrent players.  Only Grapeshot knows how many active players there are.

In any case, if the game is successful, at some point they will need to either open new servers, increase the map, or do something else to provide more space.  And if the game is successful, they'll have the money to do that,

How many claims exist today, and how many players need land?  The top concurrent has been around 4200 lately.  We should subtract the unofficials from that, but let's not.  We can use the bigger number.  We should calculate that the pvp servers are more heavily loaded and subtract again, but let's not, and use the bigger number.  Divide it by 4 servers -  1050 is the working number of peak players per server.  It doesn't help much, but even with your 10% number , which is probably VERY high, reasonable claims limits can support that.

The quote below is taken from a post by MeatSammich.

 if every company with <25 people got 10 claims, 25-100 people got 25 claims, and companies with 100+ got 50 claims, it would free up a ridiculous amount of land. To bring the maths into the discussion, there is now a company with over 3000 land claims. If they could only claim 50, that would leave 2950 more claims free. That would free up the maximum number of landclaims for 59 companies of 100+ people, or 118 companies of 25-100 people, or 295 companies of <25 people. With a max company size of 250, that would mean that up to 14,750 people would have land claims. ...and thats just the amount of land 1 top 10 company has. There are others with 2000+ land claims, there are multiple others with 1000+ land claims. All the way down to the 1 and 2 person companies that have 40-100 claims. When you couple that with 200+ claimable islands being added, there would be more than ample room for everyone playing the game today, and damn sure enough room for everyone who will continue playing after wipe. Hell, there would be enough land for everyone who has ever played on the PVE servers, with plenty of room to spare for new players.

[Kummba 164]

15 minutes ago, UDO said:

no u r wrong , if u want to own an island u will need tenants(players farming) to keep them happy u will have to go around removing structures that are blocking resources , blocking your tenants in , i dont think players are realising what the devs are doing here , they are effectivley making landlords mini gm's,u want tenants on your islands to reduce the amount of time u farm  you will need to make it attractive to them , ie keeping it clean of structure spam , 

the upkeep may be too much for one company we have yet to see what rate of decay wetc they devs have set up  

So u say i am wrong and then continue to support my main argument?

[UDO 361]

11 minutes ago, FruitBatCat said:

I think we do understand the duties of the landlord and tbh i think landlords trying to manage tenants to pay upkeep and keep their island clean will be few and far between. 

While I was playing Atlas I spotted some beautifully built 'villages' built on claims, those people 'could' create great communities, but there are no mechanics for them to rent buildings out, provide safe stabling or a dock - with these extra utilities, the system could just work in a minority of cases.

The problem is the vast majority of players are not community minded in this way and have very different intentions for their island. We veteran gamers know this, this is the way people are.

If I, and most people, had an island I would far rather exclude other people from building on my land through pillars or gates (these are the only ways we can protect our land and ironically what the system is meant to prevent but I feel will make mandatory) and farm once a week to pay any upkeep and keep the place to myself and my tribe. Lots of people in games like these actually enjoy the grind, the farming has always been a big part of these games, players find it relaxing - the bigger your tribe the more likelihood you have a few people happy to grind all the resources necessary.

I especially wouldn't want to risk, and would need to prevent, anyone building on, or trolling me, in the short 12hrs I have to clear any structures - I really would have no choice but to exclude other people entirely than risk my island being trashed.

And where does that leave the rest of us, back on Lawless, complaining we can't find any land and leaving the game ... again.

i would like to think there will be some that only allow nice planned building on their islands ,not just huge ugly boxes , that manage the resource structure spam and resovles issues with players being blocked in , we shall see how this works out 

 

noone needs an entire island to them selfs and u wont get that option as u need to be the first one to place a taxk bank before u can try to claim the island by this time u wil already have others building on the island anyway , 

Edited March 12, 2019 by UDO

[Kummba 164]

7 minutes ago, UDO said:

noone needs an entire island to them selfs and u wont get that option as u need to be the first one to place a taxk bank before u can try to claim the island by this time u wil already have others building on the island anyway , 

Lets see if the claimer can/will demolish them then. If they do, its time for a disaster!

[Jack Shandy 242]

For starters, they are moving from everyone could get a bit of land to only some are going to get land of their own.

Also overlords as you call them, i'll just call them admins. 

I'm going to find me a nice spot on someone else's island, I won't have to worry about pillar spam, i'll just report it. In fact any issue i'll just leave for someone else to sort out. Easy living.

The admins get a few extra mats for all this trouble, sounds reasonable to me.

And if the admin turns out to be a dick, I'll up and find elsewhere else, and post the grid and island on the inevitable "Badmin" post here on the forums.

[Willard 245]

44 minutes ago, FruitBatCat said:

I think we do understand the duties of the landlord and tbh i think landlords trying to manage tenants to pay upkeep and keep their island clean will be few and far between. 

While I was playing Atlas I spotted some beautifully built 'villages' built on claims, those people 'could' create great communities, but there are no mechanics for them to rent buildings out, provide safe stabling or a dock - with these extra utilities, the system could just work in a minority of cases.

The problem is the vast majority of players are not community minded in this way and have very different intentions for their island. We veteran gamers know this, this is the way people are.

If I, and most people, had an island I would far rather exclude other people from building on my land through pillars or gates (these are the only ways we can protect our land and ironically what the system is meant to prevent but I feel will make mandatory) and farm once a week to pay any upkeep and keep the place to myself and my tribe. Lots of people in games like these actually enjoy the grind, the farming has always been a big part of these games, players find it relaxing - the bigger your tribe the more likelihood you have a few people happy to grind all the resources necessary.

I especially wouldn't want to risk, and would need to prevent, anyone building on, or trolling me, in the short 12hrs I have to clear any structures - I really would have no choice but to exclude other people entirely than risk my island being trashed.

And where does that leave the rest of us, back on Lawless, complaining we can't find any land and leaving the game ... again.

Its your approach. Don't use it for whole population, especially on pve

If you want ridiculously ugly behemoth gated island on pve, go on. But its not what majority of pve players do. They do pve because they want to have nice bases without any stress from pvp. 

Edited March 12, 2019 by Willard

[Lotus 593]

On 3/9/2019 at 1:40 AM, DannyUK said:

100 land claims? Wow, i know others have more but there lies the problem.

I'm glad they have took flags away or limit them at least. If it gets players  back it can only be good thing.

I'd much rather live on lawless than risk building on someones land. 

My tribe has 83 players. (1.2 flags per member).

~Lotus

[Lotus 593]

On 3/11/2019 at 3:08 AM, José Gaspar said:

When you say players are you referring to active players.   Under OPs solution, after the first 10000 players, all islands would be taken no new players need apply.  not a good use of 225 servers.

I do not see how any claim system works, in PvE.   There is not enough islands to claim for all the players needed to needed to keep a server populated.   

I am absolutely sure all the pro-claim people would simple quit if they do not get a claim.  That is we get a claim system or not. since there are only 1000 or so islands, a minority of players will get claims.  So most of them will end up leaving anyway.

I have a claim in current, and still spend most of my time on lawless island simply to avoid paying taxes.

If they do have a claim system, they absolutely need a way for the claim to be challenged.   A claim is affecting other player's game-play they need a way to counter that, but any challenge system is inherently PvP.

As much as I like a claims, they should remain a PvP mechanism.   As much as I would like a claim, the only way PvE works is to make everything effectively lawless, and focus no reducing pillar spam.  Having upkeep related to amount space you occupy is the best way of going.

 

I made another post to address this.

~Lotus

[Lotus 593]

16 hours ago, EyEamInfidel said:

Why do a small group  believe we need a "landlord"

The last time i checked, i play games to unwind from work and relieve stress by relaxing and enjoying a game.

I pay enough taxes in real life.

I dont need to work in game to pay more taxes.

The idea is to log in..

Play a few hours and log out..

I dont think a game needs another player to be a landlord.

Its a survival/pirate game.. i think running from alphas and a sod when carrying a load of cargo is enough stress in game.

There is no reason for a landlord.

I think the DEVs need to just make plots that are buildable on the map and each playet gets a plot..

Inland where resources spawn plots are not available.

Inland where people dont want homesteads, Make much smaller plots big enough for a 9x9build max for a outpost

Each player gets a homestead and a few outpost plots 

Anywhere else you can not build regardless 

You just described claims but with limits. The problem with this is who determines what should be buildable and what shouldn't I give efficiency #1 priority and I am happy with a box. I have a guy in the tribe that hates box buildings and will tell you how ugly your box is. Some people like to build on the cool mountain. Well that mountain had oil, metal, and bit coins on it that no longer spawn because somebody wanted to build their Taj Mahol on it.

~Lotus

[Lotus 593]

15 hours ago, Jack Shandy said:

For starters, they are moving from everyone could get a bit of land to only some are going to get land of their own.

Also overlords as you call them, i'll just call them admins. 

I'm going to find me a nice spot on someone else's island, I won't have to worry about pillar spam, i'll just report it. In fact any issue i'll just leave for someone else to sort out. Easy living.

The admins get a few extra mats for all this trouble, sounds reasonable to me.

And if the admin turns out to be a dick, I'll up and find elsewhere else, and post the grid and island on the inevitable "Badmin" post here on the forums.

 Lotus#4187 on discord if we get land I want you to live on it.

 

~Lotus

[Lotus 593]

16 hours ago, Willard said:

Its your approach. Don't use it for whole population, especially on pve

If you want ridiculously ugly behemoth gated island on pve, go on. But its not what majority of pve players do. They do pve because they want to have nice bases without any stress from pvp. 

Everybody on PvE decided to go PvE for one reason or another. I do it because while I'm off fighting big things I don't want to be fighting some griefing trashcan at the same time. I believe this is why the 1 size fits all method doesn't work for fixing land

~Lotus

Edited March 13, 2019 by Lotus

[Lotus 593]

On 3/11/2019 at 7:10 PM, José Gaspar said:

The math simply does not work.,   Industry averages are 10% of players are active at any time, the peak will be about 25% so if they every really plan to have 40K players in game at once you are talking about 150K claims.   there is not enough room for 150K land claims on map.  I am not sure there is enough for 40K claims on map that do not overlap.

The math does not work Server cap is 150 per grid, A to O is 15, 1 to 15 is 15, So 15 x15 = 225 x 150 = 33,750 Where are the other 6,250 people going to be if it's 40k at once

At around 100 people on server is when I notice the game is basically unplayable.

 

~Lotus