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LoneXS

Still not convinced they can't cap claims per player?...

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So we had the big march up date, they intended to gut PVE claims and or all intents an purposes make it a cluster F**K of crap. I thought too myself with enough feedback we could get them to take another route.

Our persistence paid off they took all of our feedback and somehow came to a different conclusion...and made it worse.

All they had to do was cap claims per player but here we are. One island per player. Lost for words.

Ohwell PoE synthesis league starting today I guess.

 

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3 minutes ago, LoneXS said:

So we had the big march up date, they intended to gut PVE claims and or all intents an purposes make it a cluster F**K of crap. I thought too myself with enough feedback we could get them to take another route.

Our persistence paid off they took all of our feedback and somehow came to a different conclusion...and made it worse.

All they had to do was cap claims per player but here we are. One island per player. Lost for words.

Ohwell PoE synthesis league starting today I guess.

 

its not one island per player is an island to the ones who get there quickest , and hope they let others settle on them 

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From my understanding it's a point system. Each island has a point value based on the tier of the island. So the biggest baddest islands are worth the most points. You get points by the number of members in your tribe. Bigger tribes get the most/biggest islands because they have the most people. It's a pretty good idea I believe.

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17 minutes ago, Lotus said:

From my understanding it's a point system. Each island has a point value based on the tier of the island. So the biggest baddest islands are worth the most points. You get points by the number of members in your tribe. Bigger tribes get the most/biggest islands because they have the most people. It's a pretty good idea I believe.

The idea behind is nice, i really like the idea. But not everyone will be able to have their own island. And then the problem starts right over with the claim flag problems we have now. A better solution was to limit claim flags, i think that way everyone should be able have a piece of land. But ofc that's a opinion

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43 minutes ago, UDO said:

its not one island per player is an island to the ones who get there quickest , and hope they let others settle on them 

I kinda want to apologise, I typed with the intention of trying to sound sarcastic. I pictured them discussing this in a Grapeshot brain storming session while snorting coke of an unpaid interm 'hey why don't we make it like PVP so every player will get an island!' Jat calls out, every one applauds.. ect

Of course they completely over looking the fact that theres not nearly enough Islands to go round, less that 1% of players (rough guess) want a landlord and finally who wants to own a settlement you have to perpetually watch over to make sure some asshat hasn't put small taming box on some valuable resources - 12 hour destruction timer before your stuck with it.

I get it they are trying something different with the point system but I'm already picturing ways round this. I know roughly 10 players that can't be bothered to play Atlas atm so guess I could put a call out to meet me on reset day to join my company and get me those points for a nice size island. And even they it'll be a crap shoot if I can reach something nice before some other group. And assuming I don't, what incentive is there to stick around? move back to lawless? bite the bullet and find a nice landlord?

Edited by LoneXS
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25 minutes ago, Lotus said:

From my understanding it's a point system. Each island has a point value based on the tier of the island. So the biggest baddest islands are worth the most points. You get points by the number of members in your tribe. Bigger tribes get the most/biggest islands because they have the most people. It's a pretty good idea I believe.

You say that as though people get land.  Mostly they don't.  All that stuff about points and who gets what applies to such a small percent of the playerbase, I'm not sure why it even gets discussed so much.  If they include the former lawless servers in this there will be somewhere around 800 islands that can be claimed, with no limits except company size, so that's somewhat less than 800 players who will get land.  If they don't include lawless it'll be somewhat less than 500 players.   It'll probably be around 600 or so players with lawless and 300-400 players without it.

Everyone seems to be starting with the idea that they will definitely be one of the landowners and then basing feedback on that.

When talking about this generally we should be saying, "Here's how claims are going to work.  You won't have one.  You will have an overlord who can delete your stuff, and you will have to pay him taxes.  If you don't like him, there's nothing you can do to him, but you can try moving away to try your luck someplace else."

Because for the vast majority of the players, that's how it'll be.  (Until the server numbers are down to 500 players each, then everyone gets a claim.)

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16 minutes ago, LoneXS said:

I kinda want to apologise, I typed with the intention of trying to sound sarcastic. I pictured them discussing this in a Grapeshot brain storming session while snorting coke of an unpaid interm 'hey why don't we make it like PVP so every player will get an island!' Jat calls out, every one applauds.. ect

Of course they completely over looking the fact that theres not nearly enough Islands to go round, less that 1% of players (rough guess) want a landlord and finally who wants to own a settlement you have to perpetually watch over to make sure some asshat hasn't put small taming box on some valuable resources - 12 hour destruction timer before your stuck with it.

I get it they are trying something different with the point system but I'm already picturing ways round this. I know roughly 10 players that can't be bothered to play Atlas atm so guess I could put a call out to meet me on reset day to join my company and get me those points for a nice size island. And even they it'll be a crap shoot if I can reach something nice before some other group. And assuming I don't, what incentive is there to stick around? move back to lawless? bite the bullet and find a nice landlord?

From my understanding you will have an upkeep cost tied to your island that requires resources to be paid regularly. If you are on an island that is too big for you then you will have to maintain it with less people which means you run the risk of losing everything.

 

~Lotus

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20 minutes ago, Winter Thorne said:

You say that as though people get land.  Mostly they don't.  All that stuff about points and who gets what applies to such a small percent of the playerbase, I'm not sure why it even gets discussed so much.  If they include the former lawless servers in this there will be somewhere around 800 islands that can be claimed, with no limits except company size, so that's somewhat less than 800 players who will get land.  If they don't include lawless it'll be somewhat less than 500 players.   It'll probably be around 600 or so players with lawless and 300-400 players without it.

Everyone seems to be starting with the idea that they will definitely be one of the landowners and then basing feedback on that.

When talking about this generally we should be saying, "Here's how claims are going to work.  You won't have one.  You will have an overlord who can delete your stuff, and you will have to pay him taxes.  If you don't like him, there's nothing you can do to him, but you can try moving away to try your luck someplace else."

Because for the vast majority of the players, that's how it'll be.  (Until the server numbers are down to 500 players each, then everyone gets a claim.)

I'ma just pull out some numbers here for the sake of example. Lets say there's 5 types of islands and the resources are more than enough for the number of people it takes to claim it.

level 1 = 1 points (1-4 players)

level 2 = 3 points (3-8 players)

Level 3 = 5 points (5-12 players)

Level 4 = 10 points (10-20 players)

Level 5 = 15 points (This is one of those big bastard islands with like 2-3 kinds of metal, wood, thatch, fiber, it's got some saps, oils, animals, maybe fresh water.)

So you have 15 people minimum for one of the huge islands. Lets say the cost of having your second claim doubles the number of points. So to have 2 level 5 islands you need 45 members atleast and that doesn't account for whatever the upkeep cost is. Currently the game has like 800ish? islands (I'm not counting them all) 500ish are claimable. Add 200 new islands you have 700. (Currently more islands than players XD) Lets really get crazy with the math and say 25 islands can hold 150 people (that is 6 people per island) So 6 people on 700 islands is 4,200 people (which is more than I have ever seen on PvE).

Which this system isn't perfect but if this is what they implement (Really want a PTR) I think it will be way better than what is in place now. The lawless idea will just lead to people griefing each other off islands.

 

~Lotus

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I don't know why everyone is raising their fists at the devs. They try to understand us, but man... This is hell. The community is always splitted about how the game should be: For claiming, some were happy to see lawless wide server (bye flags and taxes), and others (like me) wanted to see the PVP claiming brought to PVE servers with adjustments. The fact is, it's easier to say you want something else/you don't like/the game is trash,  than to support the idea/mechanic.

But lets focus on the point. I find this new claim mechanic more balanced than before:

- "Claim Flags now have an upkeep cost which is paid from the tax bank" Captain's Log 22. But the numbers should be high enought to discourage single players or small companies to forbid access to other companies. Without them, they wouldn't be able to pay the land fee (depending of the land value). That's why I my opinion we won't be in the same situation as today where most of the lands are claimed with nothing on it. An idea might be for the biggest lands to require an upkeep cost including several kinds of wood/tatch/fiber and so on. This will encourage traveling, the core mechanic of the game.

- "Companies will be able to own multiple settlements, but there will be a hard limit" Captain's Log 23. This is most important thing that devs should keep an eye on. In my opinion, even a fairly large company (like 50 ppl) shouldn't possess more than one island. If a company wants to have outposts everywhere, they should do it on claimed islands.

- "Claim owners will be able to demolish structures (via the pinwheel) on their settlements temporarily as long as the structure has been placed within the last X hours" Captain's Log 23. This will give safety to anyone settling to an owned land. Today, when you build on claimed zones, nothing protects you from the owner changing his mind and demolishing your castle. But same as before, the number should give the owner enough time to react when somebody is spamming pillars everywhere. Like 24h at least.

TL,DR: With proper tuning on numbers, I'm sure that the game will definitely be better than before.

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@mandrik I get it, support the Devs ect. In an ideal world we would all have a great big competition on who can get their tongue furthers up Grapeshots backside, every choice the developer makes is perfect and you'd get a free bottle of single malt with every purchase of a loaf of bread at your locale supermarket. Unfortunately I stopped doing drugs a long time ago so I'm a bit more cynical these days.

But to emphasize the reason I'm having trouble with everything you listed from the captains logs..

THEY JUST NEEDED TO CAP CLAIMS PER PLAYER. 

That one very simply thing would have made Atlas 100% better the moment they introduced claims. It would make the land issue we've encountered now infinitely better. But they didn't and haven't. 

Yes keeping claims is good but a point system per island... your chances of getting land have gotten worse. The only way it would improve is if less people play and contest that land.

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26 minutes ago, Lotus said:

I'ma just pull out some numbers here for the sake of example. Lets say there's 5 types of islands and the resources are more than enough for the number of people it takes to claim it.

level 1 = 1 points (1-4 players)

level 2 = 3 points (3-8 players)

Level 3 = 5 points (5-12 players)

Level 4 = 10 points (10-20 players)

Level 5 = 15 points (This is one of those big bastard islands with like 2-3 kinds of metal, wood, thatch, fiber, it's got some saps, oils, animals, maybe fresh water.)

So you have 15 people minimum for one of the huge islands. Lets say the cost of having your second claim doubles the number of points. So to have 2 level 5 islands you need 45 members atleast and that doesn't account for whatever the upkeep cost is. Currently the game has like 800ish? islands (I'm not counting them all) 500ish are claimable. Add 200 new islands you have 700. (Currently more islands than players XD) Lets really get crazy with the math and say 25 islands can hold 150 people (that is 6 people per island) So 6 people on 700 islands is 4,200 people (which is more than I have ever seen on PvE).

Which this system isn't perfect but if this is what they implement (Really want a PTR) I think it will be way better than what is in place now. The lawless idea will just lead to people griefing each other off islands.

 

~Lotus

That's a lot of assumptions there.  I don't mind assuming numbers and playing with them, but I don't think there's any way the cost will get doubled, because if you did that, the megas would just split up to avoid that.  So for every mega with 100 people in it and 100 points to spend, they get maybe 3 or 4 entire zones of islands - each zone would have a couple of 1s, a 5 and a 3 or a 4.   But that's assuming points are anything like your example.  Who knows what they'll really look like?

I think your total number of islands is off a bit.  Currently the game has 143 regular claiming zones, and 56 lawless.  Each zone has around 3 islands ( so @ 429 regular claim islands right now, and 597 with lawless)  and they are adding one to each zone.  So if they don't include lawless zones, there will be @572 islands, and with lawless @ 796.  But you go on to calculate how many people those islands will hold, which you really can't do (and which misses the point of all the shouting here today with people unhappy that all they'll ever get to be is a tenant)  There's no point to any exercise saying how many people an island can hold.  It will hold as many as the landlord wants it to hold.  You can't do math to find that number.  So we still have no idea if there's "enough land" for everybody, but we sure do know that for most people, they won't want that kind of land anyway.  They've said so.

You also have to take into account that it won't allow any player to be anywhere.  Players won't be neatly assigned into islands that suit their size.  If the big companies choose to use their points to buy up many more small islands than fewer big islands, then the small companies and solos have no choice at all.  They have points that are impossible to spend.

And sure, the big unknown is how many players will there be?  Will any come back?  Hell, if only 1000 people are playing, everyone gets all the land they want.  Until they shut the servers down. 

So..I'm not sure what to think of your calculations.  Could it work in a theoretical, math sort of way?  I guess so, but people weren't concerned that they'd get one spot somewhere on some grid to build a boat.  They wanted to own land, to have control over what happened on that land, and to have a base that belonged to them.  To my mind, the numbers don't matter as much as that.

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36 minutes ago, mandrik said:

- "Claim owners will be able to demolish structures (via the pinwheel) on their settlements temporarily as long as the structure has been placed within the last X hours" Captain's Log 23. This will give safety to anyone settling to an owned land. Today, when you build on claimed zones, nothing protects you from the owner changing his mind and demolishing your castle. But same as before, the number should give the owner enough time to react when somebody is spamming pillars everywhere. Like 24h at least.

Hello,

It is not how it works today. If you remove the rights to build on a flag, the beds dont work anymore but you can't remove the structures already in place.

That's why most "land owners" set their flags to company only.

Every time I allowed some crew to build on one or more of our flags they started building right away and left the game within a day or two. We are then stuck with buildings that the only way to remove is to remove the flag and place a new one (to get ownership of the structures). Wich is only possible if there are no other flags to close.

So we just stopped giving the right to build to anyone except allies (usually to place a bed for fast travel).

 

Going back to the proposition of the OP, it could work but i see a major problem : It has been more than a month since they introduced the protection system for claims on pve and they still dont manage to count the flags of companies correctly. Hell, some have negative numbers of land flags (wich give a deflag timer of only 10 minutes btw).

Best regards.

Albibak

 

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@Lotus Winter Thorne nailed most of it but theres some other stuff to consider about upkeep and island claims. I made a tonne of resources on a patch of land about 30 x 30 foundations with 10% tax. Enough to create a massive castle and not have to farm resources from that point forward. I hate to imagine what the alpha company had banked with the rest of the island so that upkeep they mentioned would have to be insane to be even considered an issue.

Also what happens when a claim isn't looked after and it gets a new landlord that doesn't like the tenants, can he troll them off? delete their bases eventually?

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2 minutes ago, Albibak said:

It is not how it works today. If you remove the rights to build on a flag, the beds dont work anymore but you can't remove the structures already in place.

That's why most "land owners" set their flags to company only.

Every time I allowed some crew to build on one or more of our flags they started building right away and left the game within a day or two. We are then stuck with buildings that the only way to remove is to remove the flag and place a new one (to get ownership of the structures). Wich is only possible if there are no other flags to close.

So we just stopped giving the right to build to anyone except allies (usually to place a bed for fast travel).

 

 

Hi, thanks for clarification.

This issue should be answered with the decay on structures

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50 minutes ago, mandrik said:

I don't know why everyone is raising their fists at the devs. They try to understand us, but man... This is hell. The community is always splitted about how the game should be: For claiming, some were happy to see lawless wide server (bye flags and taxes), and others (like me) wanted to see the PVP claiming brought to PVE servers with adjustments.

 

As I said in another thread,  I just don't remember anybody ever living on lawless and saying "If only they would appoint some player with the power to destroy our bases to come in here and tax us and tell us what to do,.  That would fix everything!"

  And that's what we're getting.  And you wonder why people are raising their fists?

Good grief.

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15 minutes ago, Winter Thorne said:

That's a lot of assumptions there.  I don't mind assuming numbers and playing with them, but I don't think there's any way the cost will get doubled, because if you did that, the megas would just split up to avoid that.  So for every mega with 100 people in it and 100 points to spend, they get maybe 3 or 4 entire zones of islands - each zone would have a couple of 1s, a 5 and a 3 or a 4.   But that's assuming points are anything like your example.  Who knows what they'll really look like?

I think your total number of islands is off a bit.  Currently the game has 143 regular claiming zones, and 56 lawless.  Each zone has around 3 islands ( so @ 429 regular claim islands right now, and 597 with lawless)  and they are adding one to each zone.  So if they don't include lawless zones, there will be @572 islands, and with lawless @ 796.  But you go on to calculate how many people those islands will hold, which you really can't do (and which misses the point of all the shouting here today with people unhappy that all they'll ever get to be is a tenant)  There's no point to any exercise saying how many people an island can hold.  It will hold as many as the landlord wants it to hold.  You can't do math to find that number.  So we still have no idea if there's "enough land" for everybody, but we sure do know that for most people, they won't want that kind of land anyway.  They've said so.

You also have to take into account that it won't allow any player to be anywhere.  Players won't be neatly assigned into islands that suit their size.  If the big companies choose to use their points to buy up many more small islands than fewer big islands, then the small companies and solos have no choice at all.  They have points that are impossible to spend.

And sure, the big unknown is how many players will there be?  Will any come back?  Hell, if only 1000 people are playing, everyone gets all the land they want.  Until they shut the servers down. 

So..I'm not sure what to think of your calculations.  Could it work in a theoretical, math sort of way?  I guess so, but people weren't concerned that they'd get one spot somewhere on some grid to build a boat.  They wanted to own land, to have control over what happened on that land, and to have a base that belonged to them.  To my mind, the numbers don't matter as much as that.

I see more negative to breaking up a mega to try and get more land than positive. Boat use alone would be a super big headache. Tames would be another headache. We only have currently 83 total members. Before the wipe was announced about 20 active every day about 50 active weekly and the rest would play when they could with weird IRL schedules. Most of the other top 10 were about the same. PvP is where the groups of like 500 active members are. I am planning on having 1 big island with the potential of 1-3 medium islands depending on how politics play out. (Some groups have talked about joining us now that everything will be fresh). If other groups want to snatch up a bunch of stuff I would tell them good luck managing all that. We plan on killing the Kraken day 2 and all current content within a week. (ASSUMING IT IS NOT A BUGGY POS THAT TAKES TWO WEEKS TO GET FIXED #SALTY).

Some people are pretty happy being tenants (for me atleast) I give basically whatever you need to get started. Tools, taming mats, access points to hard to get resources, hell sometimes ever tames. The way I look at tenants are they could and most of the time would just end up joining the tribe.

A lot of my calculation is based on speculation of the state of the game in 2 weeks. We won't know until we are there but I believe the changes will be an improvement to the current game.

 

~Lotus

41 minutes ago, LoneXS said:

@mandrik I get it, support the Devs ect. In an ideal world we would all have a great big competition on who can get their tongue furthers up Grapeshots backside, every choice the developer makes is perfect and you'd get a free bottle of single malt with every purchase of a loaf of bread at your locale supermarket. Unfortunately I stopped doing drugs a long time ago so I'm a bit more cynical these days.

But to emphasize the reason I'm having trouble with everything you listed from the captains logs..

THEY JUST NEEDED TO CAP CLAIMS PER PLAYER. 

That one very simply thing would have made Atlas 100% better the moment they introduced claims. It would make the land issue we've encountered now infinitely better. But they didn't and haven't. 

Yes keeping claims is good but a point system per island... your chances of getting land have gotten worse. The only way it would improve is if less people play and contest that land.

To me the point system to buy an island makes it so they are limiting the number of flags a player has but makes it so you don't just claim the good areas.

~Lotus

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31 minutes ago, LoneXS said:

@Lotus Winter Thorne nailed most of it but theres some other stuff to consider about upkeep and island claims. I made a tonne of resources on a patch of land about 30 x 30 foundations with 10% tax. Enough to create a massive castle and not have to farm resources from that point forward. I hate to imagine what the alpha company had banked with the rest of the island so that upkeep they mentioned would have to be insane to be even considered an issue.

Also what happens when a claim isn't looked after and it gets a new landlord that doesn't like the tenants, can he troll them off? delete their bases eventually?

That would be a risk but a bigger group should never lose control of an island. If the group is under one vision then changing leaders wouldn't matter. If a leader did do that then the group would probably fall apart.

 

~Lotus

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11 minutes ago, Lotus said:

Some people are pretty happy being tenants (for me atleast) I give basically whatever you need to get started. Tools, taming mats, access points to hard to get resources, hell sometimes ever tames. The way I look at tenants are they could and most of the time would just end up joining the tribe.

A lot of my calculation is based on speculation of the state of the game in 2 weeks. We won't know until we are there but I believe the changes will be an improvement to the current game.

 

I'm not surprised you think it's an improvement.  You are assured of having more than one claim to own.  I hope you can see how the people with no hope of ever having a claim might be unhappy with it.  It's good that you're a benevolent landlord.  I imagine there will be some very nice landlords in the game, as well as some complete bastards, and some who are just too busy or lazy to do the job right.  For most of the rest of us it's going to be luck of the draw, and some of us are going to get griefed just as hard as we used to back in the days of lawless....only now it'll be approved behavior.

I am currently in a very small company, but most of the time I've been solo so far.  Doesn't mean I don't play with others or make friends.  I've made a number of friends and had some good times already with them.  But if none of us manages to snag an island in the big land rush, we'll probably never get to play together again, especially because they've done away with alliances, so we can't even talk cross-server or join each other on ships.  That stinks. 

Let's talk about how this will be if you're not one of the overlords.   

Days 1 through who knows how many - You sail around looking for some land, and everybody's gonna have their signs up.  NO LAND HERE, or Land Available - you must not do this or this or this, and you must join the company or must contribute X in taxes each day, must interview with the owner, must use discord, must speak Mandarin, etc.  So you finally find a place you think you can deal with, and they give you a small spot.

The next day - you realize all the spots are within 10 tiles of each other to prevent pillar spam, and it looks like a tenement, or they've left more space, and random people come around every day and put storage and beds or pillars and foundations on it (which the owner will get around to removing when he logs on after you've already left for the day, and they get replaced right after that so that you always see them there.  Just like the good old days in lawless.  You didn't think this would fix that, did you?) 

After that - you wait X number of hours to be sure the landlord isn't going to wipe your stuff.  Then you can finally start to build something.  (Unless that thing is a nice seaside village with a restaurant and shops, because you aren't going to get that much room and there's some ugly bigass concrete box right next to it anyway).  Who knows what the next day will bring?  Maybe the landlord will give you a new neighbor just 10 tiles away.  Maybe that new neighbor won't be named Dick McP3n1spants, and it'll be just another day in paradise.

I hope you can understand why many of us are not seeing the "improvement" with this.

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Well for PvE I personally was excited to hear that we were going to be able to live anywhere with a non claimable land.  The new idea as far as I understand it doesn't really fix anything but invites many ways to exploit the newer system. I see the Mega Guilds breaking into smaller guilds to exploit amount of land they can grab even without alliances only switching to discord or other chat mediums to communicate. It will appear that there are more guilds but in reality it will just be the mega guild split into chunks for hording purposes. I own/owned land with my group and as I see it the land claim system for islands seems just as dumpy as it was before giving any one person a whole island is selfish even if it was me getting it. Boohoo I cant own an island there is no domination system on PvE I got it when I was playing on PVP but on pve it seems silly/ridiculous to let individuals claim land in larger chunks then they already could before.

Short of adding more land then water the land claim system will almost always be exploited in some way that will imply grief on the community.

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37 minutes ago, Winter Thorne said:

I'm not surprised you think it's an improvement.  You are assured of having more than one claim to own.  I hope you can see how the people with no hope of ever having a claim might be unhappy with it.  It's good that you're a benevolent landlord.  I imagine there will be some very nice landlords in the game, as well as some complete bastards, and some who are just too busy or lazy to do the job right.  For most of the rest of us it's going to be luck of the draw, and some of us are going to get griefed just as hard as we used to back in the days of lawless....only now it'll be approved behavior.

I am currently in a very small company, but most of the time I've been solo so far.  Doesn't mean I don't play with others or make friends.  I've made a number of friends and had some good times already with them.  But if none of us manages to snag an island in the big land rush, we'll probably never get to play together again, especially because they've done away with alliances, so we can't even talk cross-server or join each other on ships.  That stinks. 

Let's talk about how this will be if you're not one of the overlords.   

Days 1 through who knows how many - You sail around looking for some land, and everybody's gonna have their signs up.  NO LAND HERE, or Land Available - you must not do this or this or this, and you must join the company or must contribute X in taxes each day, must interview with the owner, must use discord, must speak Mandarin, etc.  So you finally find a place you think you can deal with, and they give you a small spot.

The next day - you realize all the spots are within 10 tiles of each other to prevent pillar spam, and it looks like a tenement, or they've left more space, and random people come around every day and put storage and beds or pillars and foundations on it (which the owner will get around to removing when he logs on after you've already left for the day, and they get replaced right after that so that you always see them there.  Just like the good old days in lawless.  You didn't think this would fix that, did you?) 

After that - you wait X number of hours to be sure the landlord isn't going to wipe your stuff.  Then you can finally start to build something.  (Unless that thing is a nice seaside village with a restaurant and shops, because you aren't going to get that much room and there's some ugly bigass concrete box right next to it anyway).  Who knows what the next day will bring?  Maybe the landlord will give you a new neighbor just 10 tiles away.  Maybe that new neighbor won't be named Dick McP3n1spants, and it'll be just another day in paradise.

I hope you can understand why many of us are not seeing the "improvement" with this.

The problem I see is that there's groups of 3 people that have half a grid (50 + flags) and now they can't do that. To me that is an improvement. They can keep tuning to make it better and better.

 

~Lotus

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44 minutes ago, Hoquat said:

Well for PvE I personally was excited to hear that we were going to be able to live anywhere with a non claimable land.  The new idea as far as I understand it doesn't really fix anything but invites many ways to exploit the newer system. I see the Mega Guilds breaking into smaller guilds to exploit amount of land they can grab even without alliances only switching to discord or other chat mediums to communicate. It will appear that there are more guilds but in reality it will just be the mega guild split into chunks for hording purposes. I own/owned land with my group and as I see it the land claim system for islands seems just as dumpy as it was before giving any one person a whole island is selfish even if it was me getting it. Boohoo I cant own an island there is no domination system on PvE I got it when I was playing on PVP but on pve it seems silly/ridiculous to let individuals claim land in larger chunks then they already could before. 

Short of adding more land then water the land claim system will almost always be exploited in some way that will imply grief on the community.

I don't think PvE has any megas that are that big.

 

~Lotus

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2 minutes ago, Lotus said:

The problem I see is that there's groups of 3 people that have half a grid (50 + flags) and now they can't do that. To me that is an improvement. They can keep tuning to make it better and better.

 

~Lotus

All they had to do was cap claims.  Really.  Look at the crazy huge mess of stuff they put in place to do this, and all they had to do was just cap claims.

I agree with MeatSammich - it's almost like we're being punked in some sort of wacky experiment for someone's Psych thesis.

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I agree hard locked claim caps would have fixed this almost completely under the original system. I thought that was sort of but not really what they were already doing by making repair/tax buildings then that all went to crap. When I refer to hard locked claim caps I mean like 1 claim per account the claim areas were large enough you could encompass dock and a modest home under one flag zone easily that would have also forced islands inner areas to be free and clear to be harvested by all and the areas unclaimed could have been under lawless rules so things would decay.

This is just my two bits not what I expect but would have been a better plan then what I am seeing now Landlords and taxed area on PvE seems wrong to me in so many ways.  Yes my group owned land also but I still think it was wrong.

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22 minutes ago, Winter Thorne said:

All they had to do was cap claims.  Really.  Look at the crazy huge mess of stuff they put in place to do this, and all they had to do was just cap claims.

I agree with MeatSammich - it's almost like we're being punked in some sort of wacky experiment for someone's Psych thesis.

They are capping claims. You need to have X amount of people to claim certain islands. If you let anybody drop a claim anywhere then stupid stuff can happen though. We had a group put 2 claims down and put a shack on top of a large metal spawn then quit the game. We had to wait for the sleepers to get deleted to fix it. So as a solo player if you claim near the beach to build a boat and then some guy wants to put an RP castle on your only metal spawn on the island you don't get screwed. The megas will get their desired islands at the cost of losing their outposts all over the world (Unless we have a landlord) XD. Which I am totally fine with.

~Lotus

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1 minute ago, Lotus said:

They are capping claims. You need to have X amount of people to claim certain islands. If you let anybody drop a claim anywhere then stupid stuff can happen though. We had a group put 2 claims down and put a shack on top of a large metal spawn then quit the game. We had to wait for the sleepers to get deleted to fix it. So as a solo player if you claim near the beach to build a boat and then some guy wants to put an RP castle on your only metal spawn on the island you don't get screwed. The megas will get their desired islands at the cost of losing their outposts all over the world (Unless we have a landlord) XD. Which I am totally fine with.

~Lotus

You know that's not what I meant.

Cap claims in the original version of them, so everyone gets to own land.  Use the build radius on important resource nodes, discoveries and spawn points for treasure maps.   Problem solved.  Everyone gets to own land, nobody get to pillar spam someone else.  Everyone is happy.  Simple.

Instead we get overlords who can tax you, destroy you and deny you entry.  You don't mind having one of those.  (Because you have your nice big base someplace else)

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