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MrHeid

How to stop pillar spam etc

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Make the decay base rate very high.  Like 30min or less.  Then for each piece snapped together decrease the decay rate.  A large base would almost decay at a rate of zero and would require minimal upkeep but people spamming unsapped pillars etc.. could not possibly keep them repaired.

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This will replace pillar spam fence spam.   

What about structures like large walls and freestanding chests that do not snap together.  No many people want a 30 minute large gate.

I think decay should be very high for floors, pillars, fence supports and gates.   these thatch would be the fastest decaying, wood being next followed by stone.  The stuff that is cheap to put down fast, should  go away the fastest.   But walls ceilings, crafting stations, chests on floors, and generally things inside the base should not decay at all.   Encourage people to build compact structures.

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Ya, not that easy to solve. What you need to realize, is griefers are not dumb. This problem is like the problem of designing a computer to beat a chess player. Yes they finally did it, but it took years and years, and I'm guessing that computer has like 100 times the power of any server running Atlas. And that just solves one "simple" problem, not all the problems present in a game like Atlas.

You can't make fences decay fast, any good base needs a good fence to keep the wild creatures out. And yes, any griefer would take less than an hour to figure out they just need to snap stuff together like a fence to defeat the fast decay.

I've probably read a hundred different "solutions" to this problem, but they all seem to have some flaw that could be exploited by a griefer. 

The best solution I've heard so far is to design the map with build and no build areas. It doesn't stop all griefing, but does stop resource blocking. I've played custom maps for ARK that did something like this. The biggest problem with them though, is they are very difficult to make and get everything done right. The one I played had all kinds of problems. There were parts of the map that when you passed through them, you were instantly killed. I can't imagine having like 500 islands (not sure how many unique that is, but lots), and get them made with all the customization in any kind of reasonable amount of time.

Edited by wildbill

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The only true way to stop fence spamming is to go against my better judgement and have an area system that defines a 'reasonable' build perimeter around your base.  The center of this perimeter could indeed be a flag of sorts.  Anything within that area doesn't degrade (but still turns demolish-able if no activity in a specified time), anything outside that area decays at an accelerated rate.   That way, you can't just go spamming foundations across half the map, but are limited to a respectful area.  This does however prevent trap building, and some people live on hell hole islands where they need to build 500m of ladders straight up and mountain trails to get to places.

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4 hours ago, MrHeid said:

Make the decay base rate very high.  Like 30min or less.  Then for each piece snapped together decrease the decay rate.  A large base would almost decay at a rate of zero and would require minimal upkeep but people spamming unsapped pillars etc.. could not possibly keep them repaired.

I was thinking about the same solution, but as already said - in my opinion, it won't work.
Griefers then will spam (fence) foundations and pillars snapped together, and it may even be easier for them to box your base fully in.

 

4 hours ago, José Gaspar said:

 Encourage people to build compact structures.

I'm not a friend of receiving any restrictions in building.
Building a pirate town including our main building, stables for around 20-30 tames, a garden and of course a pub will take some space, and when I want to build it that way (and as long as hostile creatures could glitch through anything), I will do that. It is simply one main reason why I play this game, and I would hate it if there would only be ugly small blocks all over the ATLAS.

 

1 hour ago, wildbill said:

The best solution I've heard so far is to design the map with build and no build areas. It doesn't stop all griefing, but does stop resource blocking. I've played custom maps for ARK that did something like this. The biggest problem with them though, is they are very difficult to make and get everything done right. The one I played had all kinds of problems. There were parts of the map that when you passed through them, you were instantly killed. I can't imagine having like 500 islands (not sure how many unique that is, but lots), and get them made with all the customization in any kind of reasonable amount of time.

Imho implententing not-buildable areas like ressource spawns and ruins are the only way and an indispensable requirement that the gameplay will work without claim flags in PVE. 
I'm pretty sure Studio Wildcard had figured a way out on the normal "The Island"-Map in ARK - it was long ago I've played that map, but I think I remember some places where you couldn't build, although you could not see why in the first place.

 

What do you think - maybe taking the new structures repair-box as a "claim flag" will work?
After placing the box, it simply will block a certain radius for you, but you can place that box only once per company. The blocking radius will increase per 10 or 20 members or so.
Placed structures without the box will decay in a certain amount of time - maybe two hours? -, regardless if it's thatch, wood or stone.
This would make it even possible to built taming traps on other islands without worrying that your trap will decay whilst taming, but it would not last long enough that the guys who live on that island could be pissed about ugly traps everywhere.

 

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First of all, I am using Google Translator because I am Korean. I hope my thoughts will be conveyed correctly.

I don't know why people are obsessed with flags at the pve server.Didn't you decide to delete the flag?
Does it work if you use your thoughts here? It's not.


After the news of the patch, many people were worried about the pillars and foundations, so I thought about it.

Most fundamentally, the easiest way to do this is to limit the poles, the foundations, the fences per person. For example, 200 per person.

I think 200 are enough for buildings for homes and animals. Here
That's what happens when the number of people at the company increases.

Instead, there's a condition. The thing that doesn't connect is to be demolished, and it's to be built.
The pillars, the foundations, the fences don't get the resources, but if someone else removes them,
200% of the resources are returned.Well, the producer can change the numbers.)

Anyway, the house, the animal storage area, and the way to the shipyard. Wouldn't it be a real psychopath to set up a pillar in front of someone else's house rather than where you have to live right now?

Now, the pve server doesn't have any flags, right? What if I apply a radius to the automatic repair box?
The building's radius is back on track.

What do you think? Can you imagine?
There will be no island where the whole island is a pillar, and anyone can demolish it, even if a pillar that can be demolished is blocked by someone else'
There is a lack of basic building to be assigned to homes and animal sites right

You think they're gonna go around and set up a pillar?

-----------

More
This should include all kinds of small and large doors.
There's a lot of non-manner behavior on the door as well as on the pillar.

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6 hours ago, MrHeid said:

Make the decay base rate very high.  Like 30min or less.  Then for each piece snapped together decrease the decay rate.  A large base would almost decay at a rate of zero and would require minimal upkeep but people spamming unsapped pillars etc.. could not possibly keep them repaired.

I don't understand - you cant build on someone elses space man no ? Once they have placed a foundation then everywhere inside that 'zone' is only buildable by you no ?

J

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8 minutes ago, mishma said:

Anyway, the house, the animal storage area, and the way to the shipyard. Wouldn't it be a real psychopath to set up a pillar in front of someone else's house rather than where you have to live right now?

 

I will tell you a little story about psychopaths,  happened yesterday 🙂

Until the wipe, I am only online to feed my animals - I can't let them starve to death - and to cuddle my penguins.
So I went out to get some meat and berries, and then I saw a tamed tiger was fallen in our taming trap. We need the taming trap only for elephants, but we hate those stupid behemoth gates, so we only use doorways (two walls high) and ramps to get the elephant in the cage and after taming, we destroy some walls, get the elephant out and  then make the trap ready for the next tame, because we need approximately one elephant per week because of alpha animals glitching through everything and killing our tames.

So, of course, I don't wanted to be responsible for that guy losing his tiger (although he would be losing it anyway, but that would not have been my fault).
I demolished the doorways and waited half an hour for the owner to come back - his ship was anchored right at the coast beside our own ships, so I assume he really want his tiger back. Then a snake got into the trap and almost killed the tiger - it was on passive - but that bugged the tiger out and in front of the trap.

So I killed the snake and, because I had to go offline and couldn't wait any longer - built a little pen for the tiger called "Flauschi" with an unlocked gate. I left the owner a wooden sign that we are sorry that his tiger got stucked, but he will not loose it because of us and I send him my best wishes.
I rode back to our base to log out, but then I remembered that I forgot to feed the crew on our ships. So I rode out again, gathered some more berries and got back to our ships.

Whilst climbing the ladder, I saw a naked guy with a crocodile on his butt ran to the pen, opened the gate and lured the crocodile in.

I was not fast enough. "Flauschi" was killed and the naked guy ran away. I felt so sorry.

So - if griefers until now do their stupid thing, at this time, when it does not matter anymore to kill someones tames or to annoy others in any way, they don't have ANY advantage from it - then you really think we don't need a good protection against them? They won't disappear and always find a way. Imagine the low percentage that a story like this could happen: a naked guy will jump off his ship on a fully claimed island, run around aimless, find a trap with a tamed animal in it and with an unlocked gate - but it happened!

And in my opinion, the only thing that will help would be a complete blocking radius around your base. Griefers would simply have no chance.
 

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19 minutes ago, hands solo said:

I don't understand - you cant build on someone elses space man no ? Once they have placed a foundation then everywhere inside that 'zone' is only buildable by you no ?

J

At this moment, you can't - but as the devs don't say anything specific what will happen to PVE because of the removal of claiming flags after the wipe and that everyone can build everywhere, we assume that there will be a "pillarmageddon" caused by griefers. For example, if they will use the blocking radius from the lawless island - that would be awful.
We are looking for preventing solutions here.

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As I said in another thread - you can go crazy trying to figure out a way to block spam and stop griefing,  if you try to imagine each little thing someone could do and then code some rule to prevent it.  And as you can see, you end up with a big spaghetti mess of code all trying to allow certain things and not other things and some number of fence sections, but not too many, and only stone structures get to survive but not thatch,  and you want structures to decay really fast, but you don't want someone's base to disappear if they go on vacation.....etc. etc etc.

And in the end we get to the idea that there has to be some space reserved around what someone is building to prevent other people spamming things there.

And now we have reinvented claims.

Seriously.  Claims are a good idea.  The problem on pve was that there weren't enough of them.

Solution:  Claims.  5 per person..some reasonable cap per company based on membership.   Claims with no owner entering them disappear and become available after 21 days.

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8 hours ago, Tinschn said:

What do you think - maybe taking the new structures repair-box as a "claim flag" will work?
After placing the box, it simply will block a certain radius for you, but you can place that box only once per company. The blocking radius will increase per 10 or 20 members or so.
Placed structures without the box will decay in a certain amount of time - maybe two hours? -, regardless if it's thatch, wood or stone.
This would make it even possible to built taming traps on other islands without worrying that your trap will decay whilst taming, but it would not last long enough that the guys who live on that island could be pissed about ugly traps everywhere.

 

I'm liking this one the best. Make everything decay very fast, but not so fast that someone can't make a temporary taming pen and tame a few creatures. So not 30 minutes, but maybe 12 hours for stone is more like it. Quicker for wood. Maybe 6 hours for wood, 3 hours for thatch. The repair structure acts as a claim, with a large no build radius. You put stuff in it for repairs. You can have just one per grid though. So just one base per grid per company. You want more bases, you have them on other grids. No limit other than the number of grids.

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1 hour ago, wildbill said:

I'm liking this one the best. Make everything decay very fast, but not so fast that someone can't make a temporary taming pen and tame a few creatures. So not 30 minutes, but maybe 12 hours for stone is more like it. Quicker for wood. Maybe 6 hours for wood, 3 hours for thatch. The repair structure acts as a claim, with a large no build radius. You put stuff in it for repairs. You can have just one per grid though. So just one base per grid per company. You want more bases, you have them on other grids. No limit other than the number of grids.

I agree, out of all the ideas and exploitable areas, this one seems to be the most reasonable so far considering the mechanics, it still wont stop spam, but if the decay rate was enough, then it would make more hard work for the exploiter but pillar and foundation spam is a domino effect, one guy starts to setup his boundaries or no build zones/expansion etc then the next guy wants to start marking off his boundary and so on.  I have only personally had to do this when someone starts around my home and starts to block me in but most times people are reasonable if you take the time to talk to them before spamming, some are just outright unreasonable lol

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This replaces foundation spam with sidewalk or tiny hut or fence spam.   It does not solve the problem.    Even more so with recent patches that made thatch structures very very cheap.   Greifers are very easily going to spend less than your base cost to maintain even if you made the replace the structures rather than just repair.  That is the fundamental problem - high cost is not a griefer deterrent.  

A repair structure with a large no build radius is actually less convenient in placement than a flag because you have to design your base around it - so why not just use the flag for claiming and fix its problems (no upkeep, no limits, overlaps, spammable at no cost).  Because that is exactly what a no build radius is - a claim.

Edited by krazmuze

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You guys are so stupid.

You can limit the timber pillars, foundation, and fence to individuals,
If you do not have floor, ceiling or roof connections, you can just demolish it.

What corruption time do you need?
If you interfere with the construction of your house during corruption time, what are you going to do?

150 per person is enough. Including small and large gateways
I can make enough places for nice houses and animals.

The more people the company has, the more it grows.


You keep telling me what flags and decay time
What I said is the best way.

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11 minutes ago, mishma said:

You guys are so stupid.

You can limit the timber pillars, foundation, and fence to individuals,
If you do not have floor, ceiling or roof connections, you can just demolish it.

What corruption time do you need?
If you interfere with the construction of your house during corruption time, what are you going to do?

150 per person is enough. Including small and large gateways
I can make enough places for nice houses and animals.

The more people the company has, the more it grows.


You keep telling me what flags and decay time
What I said is the best way.

Just because someone doesn't conform to your way of thinking, doesn't mean they are stupid, your way is easily exploitable too by rolling characters, there really is no way around spam unless your limited to certain build areas per tribe, the flag system was a step to resolve this but ultimately failed.  The problem with gamers today, if someone can grief you, they will but mostly for this genre, it's all about stopping someone building in certain areas or too close to someones base.

It really doesn't bother me popping outside my doors to see my neighbours, in fact thats why i like to play online games, as long as they are thoughtful in the process, no blocking paths, ie there is a way around thier base and if they are going to build huge structures, then away from my render range as I do for others.

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Oh wow, Mr. Brain himself has spoken :classic_blink:

So, will your evil masterplan also work, if person A build his base, go offline, person B comes, wants the land, build directly beside it and for example, will build some pillars on the seaside where A wanted to build a shipyard and connects the pillars via foundations to his base. For decoration, he will also build a wall on one side with a roof.
A is fucked. It's simple as that. And if it will be possible to build directly beside your neighbor, it will cost B maybe 10 building parts.

Remember, griefers are not here for building a nice base, taking care of their wonderful herb garden and petting their tames to sleep.
They are griefers because they are griefing.

 

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BEST way is: MUST have new building item called CORE maybe. so the core is a center radius buildable for your base. if you build outside the radius it will decay like 30min or demolisable by others. 1 player can only have 1 core  :).  if you want more than 1 core then maybe there is quest to do (super hard ),its like building permit. the quest repeatable by every 3 month.

The radius of CORE can be vary depend on your char levels. or can be determined by doing serial quest. from small until reasonable size.

maybe this can solved the problems.   

Because of this. so players must think carefully before they place the CORE. once you place CORE there be like 3 days maybe before you can demolish your core and place it to your new locations that you like.

Edited by VAZGHOUL
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