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THE PVP vs PVE dilemma, some thoughts and ideas

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After reading most, if not all, topics in both PVE and PVP discussion thread i come to one, simple conclusion: The game cannot be the same for PVE and PVP if you want to make both parties happy with the game. 

PVE side feels, that the environment gets nerfed to help the PVP players, the PVP players feel PVE is only half the game anyway, as there is no threat from players. To make both sides happy, I believe strongly the PVP servers need to have different settings in PVE than the PVE servers. Some ideas to make PVE challenging again, while PVP remain challenging enough due to the threat of players. I hope to start a discussion that will be food for thought to properly balance PVP and PVE servers while making them a different experience, each challenging on its own.

NEW IDEA:

An idea from Conan: Make a purge for PVE, once in a while a group of NPCs specially spawned for the purpose, attack a players base or boat. Player gets a warning in advance that such a group is on the way. This would make a threat that can be compared to actual PvP attacks and would need PVE bases to put defenses in place, to protect it against it. If the group is defeated, the player can loot unique items or blueprints from them. The group increases in difficulty the next time it attacks, keeping this a serious threat to ships and bases in PVE.

Balancing ideas.

  • Weather effects more harsh in PVE, more lenient in PVP
  • PVE harvest rate 1. Taming rates may be even lower (0.5, 0.25) to make it very rewarding to get a tame done. PVP can remain 2x maybe even 3x on all but leveling up.
  • Weather effects more harsh in PVE, more lenient in PVP
  • Resources more spread out in PVE, it should be hard to get from point to point.
  • No ramshackle sloop in PVE.
  • PVE hometowns can only be freeports. PVP players can spawn in every region
  • Taming in PVE can only be done with a specific food (as in the start) ie Honey for Bears while PVP taming can be done with all food from the same class.
  • Dead in PVE means losing a level. (HARDCORE idea #1 E: if you die on level 1, character recreation?  HARDCORE idea #2 E: if you die, character recreation?  HARDCORE idea #3 E: if you die, your back to level 1)  dead in PVP means a temporary debug that stacks if you die again while having the debuff.
  • Claim flags in PVE, but limited to 1 per player. (maybe 2? or one to claim ships, tames and another to claim land?)
  • Alpha spawn rates in PVE go up, to present a challenge for PVE games. Alpha's are harder in PVE, all wild animals are harder to kill in PVE.
  • SOTD much harder in PVE compared to PVP

---------------

Above are just ideas, but it would make PVE a challenge while presenting a completely different experience from PVP

Thoughts?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by MajorAvatar
Bullet list added
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16 minutes ago, MajorAvatar said:

After reading most, if not all, topics in both PVE and PVP discussion thread i come to one, simple conclusion: The game cannot be the same for PVE and PVP if you want to make both parties happy with the game. 

PVE side feels, that the environment gets nerfed to help the PVP players, the PVP players feel PVE is only half the game anyway, as there is no threat from players. To make both sides happy, I believe strongly the PVP servers need to have different settings in PVE than the PVE servers. Some ideas to make PVE challenging again, while PVP remain challenging enough due to the threat of players. I hope to start a discussion that will be food for thought to properly balance PVP and PVE servers while making them a different experience, each challenging on its own.

NEW IDEA:

- An idea from Conan: Make a purge for PVE, once in a while a group of NPCs specially spawned for the purpose, attack a players base or boat. Player gets a warning in advance that such a group is on the way. This would make a threat that can be compared to actual PvP attacks and would need PVE bases to put defenses in place, to protect it against it. If the group is defeated, the player can loot unique items or blueprints from them. The group increases in difficulty the next time it attacks, keeping this a serious threat to ships and bases in PVE.

Balancing ideas.

- PVE harvest rate 1. Taming rates may be even lower (0.5, 0.25) to make it very rewarding to get a tame done. PVP can remain 2x maybe even 3x on all but leveling up.

- Weather effects more harsh in PVE, more lenient in PVP

- Resources more spread out in PVE, it should be hard to get from point to point.

- No ramshackle sloop in PVE.

- PVE hometowns can only be freeports. PVP players can spawn in every region

- Taming in PVE can only be done with a specific food (as in the start) ie Honey for Bears while PVP taming can be done with all food from the same class.

- Dead in PVE means losing a level. (HARDCORE idea #1 E: if you die on level 1, character recreation?  HARDCORE idea #2 E: if you die, character recreation?  HARDCORE idea #3 E: if you die, your back to level 1)  dead in PVP means a temporary debug that stacks if you die again while having the debuff.

- Claim flags in PVE, but limited to 1 per player. (maybe 2? or one to claim ships, tames and another to claim land?)

- Alpha spawn rates in PVE go up, to present a challenge for PVE games. Alpha's are harder in PVE, all wild animals are harder to kill in PVE.

- SOTD much harder in PVE compared to PVP

---------------

Above are just ideas, but it would make PVE a challenge while presenting a completely different experience from PVP

Thoughts?

 

-Purges will be like towerdefence.. they won't break through if u do it right. i don't think this could be a threat or that people even need to be online to beat it..

-wheater and rates noone realy cares I think

-why should it be harder to find ressources in pve than pvp? you can do it in both area to even encourage long sails which results in more pvp

-ramshakle sloops came regarding the complains of people before

-PvP player spawning in every zone is stupid... right now this is a bad fact... impossible to claim against a large company

-I don't believe taming is fun for anyone after doing it for months when you lose tames vs snakes randomly

-your death idea is good but people would complain 24/7 against this. trust me

-why should there be a difference in claimflags? problem is that you can't steal claims in pve.. which makes it impossible for new players to settle

-alpha's are no challange at all, just annoying if u don't see them on your path ahead

-no reason to make SOTD harder in pve over pvp

 

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31 minutes ago, MajorAvatar said:

Dead in PVE means losing a level.

There's a reason that even Eastern MMOs rarely do this idiotic deleveling punishment anymore.  It's in the Top 5 Worst Design Decisions.

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I would like to see for pve a top player/ company based on ghostship/sod kills and othe pve things I think that would be a fun way for ppl to get out and do more of the things, also I think letting companys have one claim flag would be a ok thing kind maybe but I could go bad, but I believe in my fellow gamers that we would make it work most of the ppl on pve are really nice, but hey I hopeful

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damn id love the special purge hordes in pvp too. thats content right there baby. That could even be a tarot card skill too. summoning the soldiers of the damned. that'd be hawt

Edited by Enki Anunnaki

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3 minutes ago, Enki Anunnaki said:

damn id love the special purge hordes in pvp too. thats content right there baby

I know it's been suggested by a couple people in different suggestion posts, pretty sure I have at least once as well. Dig some up and up vote them in the suggestions forum.

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I say no to all these ideas. PVE doesn't need to be more difficult, it needs more content that WE initiate. Not content that we are forced into because we're being attacked.

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3 hours ago, MajorAvatar said:

 

  • Weather effects more harsh in PVE, more lenient in PVP
  • PVE harvest rate 1. Taming rates may be even lower (0.5, 0.25) to make it very rewarding to get a tame done. PVP can remain 2x maybe even 3x on all but leveling up.
  • Weather effects more harsh in PVE, more lenient in PVP
  • Resources more spread out in PVE, it should be hard to get from point to point.
  • No ramshackle sloop in PVE.
  • PVE hometowns can only be freeports. PVP players can spawn in every region
  • Taming in PVE can only be done with a specific food (as in the start) ie Honey for Bears while PVP taming can be done with all food from the same class.
  • Dead in PVE means losing a level. (HARDCORE idea #1 E: if you die on level 1, character recreation?  HARDCORE idea #2 E: if you die, character recreation?  HARDCORE idea #3 E: if you die, your back to level 1)  dead in PVP means a temporary debug that stacks if you die again while having the debuff.
  • Claim flags in PVE, but limited to 1 per player. (maybe 2? or one to claim ships, tames and another to claim land?)
  • Alpha spawn rates in PVE go up, to present a challenge for PVE games. Alpha's are harder in PVE, all wild animals are harder to kill in PVE.
  • SOTD much harder in PVE compared to PVP

Clearly a pvp player that wants everything very fast and simple in pvp. 

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I really like your PvE suggestions. The challenge of player attacks is not there in PvE (and not wanted by the PvE players) therefore other aspects of the game need to be more challenging to ensure long-term motivation.

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Loose level after die are just useless and anoying.

When you walk on your horse, along the beach, at lvl 40 and you are catch by lion lvl 2. You can't escape of this mouth and just wait die. If we  loose 1 level and 7 skill points for that.

Just boring.

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57 minutes ago, Klaus Störtebeker said:

A kind of debuff for ~10 min would be ok. (e.g. 1/2 gathering & stats). Just so that constant diing is not an advantage.

Maybe a stacking debuff of some sort like -5% stats for 20 minutes but if you die again within that time you get a X2 - X3 all the way up to X5 until you survive for 20 minutes for the debuff to cool down.

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Every kind of punishment for diing ist just a Design failure. It only achives that the player is more annoyed and maby wont play anymore.

There schould be a buff that encourage players to stay alife.

Death in Atlas comes mostly with dead Tames, sunken Ships and/or lost Equippment. Its enough punishment for PVP and PVE.

And sorry for my bad english 😕

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3 hours ago, microphobe said:

Maybe a stacking debuff of some sort like -5% stats for 20 minutes but if you die again within that time you get a X2 - X3 all the way up to X5 until you survive for 20 minutes for the debuff to cool down.

Why the hell would you do that ? Will be funny during the FOY run. Or when you die because you got clipped in a wall. So every time you die because of a bug, -5%. Hell no

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If anything, have different servers for people that want that kind of game. I don't want to play on it.

Have a normal and a hard mode server.

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What they need to do is combined the two and only have 1 server. Put the 225 pve grids into the center of the map flanked on either side by the PVP grids increasing the grind count to 450. Then in the PVE grids dabble with different mob spawns, power stones, Kraken, Ghost ship, easier generic resource grinding, with a few of the named resources. Then in the PVP side reduce mob spawns, increase named resource spawns, more numerous smaller islands.

 

Keep the claim system the same for all grids. Turn structure destruction off in the PVE side. Leave open water PVP, and add NPC faction that is like police that will pursue aggressors, and have a notoriety rating that makes it hard to hang out in PVE grids if you attack enough people in PVE grids.

 

Nevermind

Edited by Mr Putts
Upon further examination my post added nothing to the topic at hand.

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it's pve pov.. if they die they most likely don't lose their gearset

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4 hours ago, Abysian said:

Why the hell would you do that ? Will be funny during the FOY run. Or when you die because you got clipped in a wall. So every time you die because of a bug, -5%. Hell no

The foy run is exactly the point, the current system is a single person runs in naked and screaming to run past mobs spamming e to touch a stone.

There is no attempt to fight the mobs at all, nobody does it as a group with tactics or even throwing grenades down tunnels. Just run die run die.

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11 hours ago, Greyleaf said:

I say no to all these ideas. PVE doesn't need to be more difficult, it needs more content that WE initiate. Not content that we are forced into because we're being attacked.

I agree with you. There are not just two types of players, PvP that fight other players and PvE that fight the environment. What you are really saying is PvP online and PvP single player. There is a whole different type of PvE than what is described by the OP.

A lot of PvE players love the game for all kinds of reasons, none having anything to do with fighting the environment. The sailing, the building, the breeding, the player interaction (could be role playing or just sharing ideas and adventures with other players), the exploring, all kinds of reasons. My wife likes to kill stuff, but she doesn't want to actually have her character killed by some random NPC or creature.

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