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We are PvE/Claim issues and solutions

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12 minutes ago, Winter Thorne said:

I'm not angry losing A flag.  I'm angry about nobody getting any more claims ever.  You know a simple restricting on number of claims would have fixed it for everyone including you.

I lived on lawless for most of this time.  I have had one claim flag for a couple weeks now.  I don't want to go back to lawless.

If the thought of living on lawless was enough to make you quit the game before, then you won't be happy once everything is just like lawless.  And it will be just like lawless.

Nobody knows how it's going to turn out just yet, give it time before you judge. They obviously must not be able to restrict the number of flags for some reason otherwise they could have done that.

I'm sure this will bring those players that left back again, I'm all for the change and bringing players back. Maybe I won't like it but I'm prepared to give it a try at least instead of dismissing it. I wasn't happy with the old system but I have nothing to lose trying the new system nor has the thousands that have left. If the majority of the community say they don't like it after testing it then they will have to change it, they have no choice have they?

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, MrMagoo said:

Nobody knows how it's going to turn out just yet, give it time before you judge. They obviously must not be able to restrict the number of flags for some reason otherwise they could have done that.

I'm sure this will bring those players that left back again, I'm all for the change and bringing players back. Maybe I won't like it but I'm prepared to give it a try at least instead of dismissing it. I wasn't happy with the old system but I have nothing to lose trying the new system nor has the thousands that have left. If the majority of the community say they don't like it after testing it then they will have to change it, they have no choice have they?

It's already been explained to you how it's 'going to turn out'.  Lawless everywhere.

On a positive note I've just bought conan exiles as well, so I'll spend this evening watching TV with the wife while it installs.

 

GL to everyone who decides to jump back onto this merry-go-round and as for this supposed 'majority' who are coming back-they left already because of shit mechanics.  They'll leave again.

 

This company seems determined to drive away it's playerbase, so once you're all established again, it'll be some lame fucking excuse about how they've "came to the difficult decision about having to merge the servers", blah, blah.

Edited by Jizzah
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5 minutes ago, MrMagoo said:

Nobody knows how it's going to turn out just yet, give it time before you judge. They obviously must not be able to restrict the number of flags for some reason otherwise they could have done that.

Not true.  They have said what's happening,  Everything will be like lawless.  We already know how lawless turns out.  You don't need a great deal of imagination to see what the game will be like if all the lands are like lawless.  I expect it will be a little better for some in the beginning because they're adding more land.  But it won't fix the problem after people  grab all that up.

They are making a change to pvp restricting the number of flags, so no..it's not the issue that it can't be done.

If you watch the livestream and read the Captain's Log you will know what's happening,  We're not all just making things up.

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45 minutes ago, MrMagoo said:

to play the new system

The funny thing is what they are implementing isn't a new system. It already exists it called a lawless zone which the whole atlas will be with your "new" system. Claim flags are a great idea just have been poorly implemented. The 2 A.M. removing sleepers and adding a 20 day upkeep on claims was a huge hit on a lot of people. All they need to do is reduce the amount of claim flags people can put down whether is an individual restriction or group restriction. Make the claim a square instead of a circle to maybe fix overlap. Reduce upkeep timers to lawless decay timers of 4 days. And finally have an upkeep cost to your claim flags. Just a flat cost nothing that goes up or down depending on what you have built because you are already restricted on how many flags you can have in the first place. They're adding all these new features to PvP claiming but the only thing they're adding to PvE is a repair station. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, MrMagoo said:

Nobody knows how it's going to turn out just yet, give it time before you judge. They obviously must not be able to restrict the number of flags for some reason otherwise they could have done that.

I'm sure this will bring those players that left back again, I'm all for the change and bringing players back. Maybe I won't like it but I'm prepared to give it a try at least instead of dismissing it. I wasn't happy with the old system but I have nothing to lose trying the new system nor has the thousands that have left. If the majority of the community say they don't like it after testing it then they will have to change it, they have no choice have they?

Username and avatar check out because you have a very myopic view of things.

The players who have been playing do know how it is going to turn out.

We've played Ark and saw pillars as far as the eye can see, because people don't want anyone building right next to them, so they've blocked off areas almost half of an average Atlas island around themselves. And we've seen the same thing happen on lawless islands here.

We've played Ark and had neighbors who though that our base was too big, so they pillared outside the base to make sure we couldn't expand. We've had people do the same thing here, with overlapping claim flags.

We've played Ark, and watched people block off resources for their own use, which we've already seen in lawless, or worse, build directly on them to stop them from spawning for everyone. We saw the same thing happen in Lawless when they turned spawn blocking back on there.

We've seen douchewaffles here already blocking off treasure map locations in their own claims, even though with taxes, they would get a cut of the treasure. Now, anyone can block them anywhere, and since they don't get a cut, they have no reason not to.

We've been here since the beginning and saw Lawless turn into barren hellholes devoid of any resources but a couple trees and some fiber and berries when they turned on resource blocking on builds again, and it killed resource respawns so bad that they had to turn it off again...and that is before they reduced build distance, so it was the same build spread as the whole world is.

 

We all agree that something had to be done about the lack of land, and companies having over 3000 claims. The top 10 on the leaderboard had over 9000 land claims combined.

We wanted limited land claims. 50 claims max for companies over 100 people, 25 claims for companies 25-100 people and 10 claims for companies with less than 25 people would give everyone enough space to build.

If you use those numbers, and just take the land from the top 10 companies, thats 8500 claims freed up, minimum - and I know that the majority of the top 10 didn't have over 100 players, so in reality, it would be a lot more. Add in all the 2-10 man companies that had 100+ claims, and there would be more than enough area give land to literally everyone who has played PVE, or is likely to play PVE in the future - not even counting  the 200+ new islands worth of land coming.

Edited by MeatSammich
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Can´t rly blame them for changen the Claimflag tbh.

Forum was full of ppl arguing over the claim flags,yet the people who were fine with it left no comment at all and why should they if they were happy with it.

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2 minutes ago, zottel said:

Can´t rly blame them for changen the Claimflag tbh.

Forum was full of ppl arguing over the claim flags,yet the people who were fine with it left no comment at all and why should they if they were happy with it.

People were happy with the idea of it. What they were unhappy with was that it was unlimited and a few companies could own 1/3 the map combined, or 2 man groups could own 100+ claims. We just wanted it limited, not completely burned to the ground.

Its like offering someone a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, but they complain because they're allergic to peanuts, and telling them "Well, i could make you just a jelly sandwich, but instead I'm just going to kick you in the balls."

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They will soon see the number of people who will not play the new system because of the way the pve community has been treated.     There is reason they can't make pve just like pop changes minus the war tokens and raid times.  As it is we can't even use the bank.

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1 minute ago, Garrik said:

They will soon see the number of people who will not play the new system because of the way the pve community has been treated.     There is reason they can't make pve just like pop changes minus the war tokens and raid times.  As it is we can't even use the bank.

The bank was one thing that people without land didn't like. Well, more so the tax rate. There should just be a flat 10% invisible tax for harvesting on someone elses land, but instead of it coming out of the harvester's yield, it should just be extra mats generated and sent to the bank. That way people aren't losing anything, and no one is pissed off about people stealing 'their' resources as they still get something out of the deal

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Well all I can say is I'm prepared to give it a try, if I don't like it I won't play it again, it really is that simple for me.

People who have left have nothing to lose in trying it again, will they like it? I can't speak for them but we'll soon find out if the numbers increase again if not i've said it before they will change the system again, they don't have a choice.

I personally didn't like the old system, but if it ends up with people spamming all over the place they will soon do something about it, they would have to. I know everyone has their own opinion but things are getting heated in here with this debate so I will leave it there before someone comes along and pushes to far resulting in thread locked.

I hope it works out but if it doesn't they will soon know about it, I just hope you all at least give it a try and not leave.

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14 minutes ago, MrMagoo said:

Well all I can say is I'm prepared to give it a try, if I don't like it I won't play it again, it really is that simple for me.

People who have left have nothing to lose in trying it again, will they like it? I can't speak for them but we'll soon find out if the numbers increase again if not i've said it before they will change the system again, they don't have a choice.

I personally didn't like the old system, but if it ends up with people spamming all over the place they will soon do something about it, they would have to. I know everyone has their own opinion but things are getting heated in here with this debate so I will leave it there before someone comes along and pushes to far resulting in thread locked.

I hope it works out but if it doesn't they will soon know about it, I just hope you all at least give it a try and not leave.

So unless they really change the way things work the bulk of the map will be even worse than the lawless situation what with resources not spawning within a radius of foundations or pillars.

Hello empty islands with no resources and no way to build anything.

This has the potential to really really break the whole game for PVE

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, MrMagoo said:

Well all I can say is I'm prepared to give it a try, if I don't like it I won't play it again, it really is that simple for me.

People who have left have nothing to lose in trying it again, will they like it? I can't speak for them but we'll soon find out if the numbers increase again if not i've said it before they will change the system again, they don't have a choice.

I personally didn't like the old system, but if it ends up with people spamming all over the place they will soon do something about it, they would have to. I know everyone has their own opinion but things are getting heated in here with this debate so I will leave it there before someone comes along and pushes to far resulting in thread locked.

I hope it works out but if it doesn't they will soon know about it, I just hope you all at least give it a try and not leave.

The issue is that trying and failing will 100% necessitate another wipe. That's what people are trying to avoid as much as possible.

The majority of the playerbase understands the reasoning for this wipe, but it still sucks to lose everything.

What we don't want, is to go and build up again, fighting griefers all the way, just to be told 'Oh, you guys were right, this idea didn't work for the exact reasons you outlined hundreds of times when we told you about it...we're going to a different system, but to do it, we gotta wipe again."

Wiping once because they underestimated (or overestimated) their playerbase and their own ability to combat griefing/dupeing/hacking is understandable. Completely ignoring the wishes of their playerbase, seeing the worst brought out in people, and having to wipe again because in their hubris they thought they knew better than the combined millions of hours of experience of their players is not.

Edited by MeatSammich
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16 minutes ago, Scrad said:

So unless they really change the way things work the bulk of the map will be even worse than the lawless situation what with resources not spawning within a radius of foundations or pillars.

Hello empty islands with no resources and no way to build anything.

This has the potential to really really break the whole game for PVE

yes it does , dont get on with yur neigbors , they go build on top of the metal  / crystal / nodes so now u are stuck building wooden houses and rafts ,well played devs well played , thousands of requests for claim flag limits so u ignore it and remove them for the crappy system that we had in ark , i say again well done devs 

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4 hours ago, MrMagoo said:

It can crack you up all it likes, we all have our own views on it. I'm not the only one who didn't like how it worked, go and ask the thousands that have left the game and the minority like yourself that have remained.

I know you might be upset on the system changing judging by your response but that's how it is unfortunately. If it gets more people back into the game that has to be a good thing, we will have to see how it develops with the new system.

Yes, many people left the game. You're convinced it was all about land claims. I don't think you understand at all.... being able to claim land wasn't the problem. It was that it was completely unregulated/unrestricted, so one company could claim multiple, ENTIRE islands, leaving little to no room for anyone else. But removing the land claims entirely is also a very bad mistake. You admitted you've not played Ark, so allow me to enlighten you about what a no-land-claim option looks like: larger tribes building boxes around your base (walls, ceiling, no doors, and in pve since you can't harm other people's structures.... you're completely caged in.) You now can't get out of your base unless you die and respawn out in the wild, and if you do that you can't get back in to your base. If you have tames, they eventually starve because you can't get to them to feed them. So you're forced to abandon your base, your tames and your progress, and start over either on the same server (if you want to risk it... you got boxed in a passive-aggressive way to get rid of you because the tribe or tribes didn't want you by them, or on 'their server'.) or now you must find a new server and hope the people there are much friendlier. Good luck. This kind of passive agressive 'we don't want you here' is rampant, common, and the devs will not help you. This is just ONE example, and likely the most common, outside of pillaring and foundation bombing to prevent anyone else from building. And again, in pve, there is NOTHING you can do to help yourself, because you can't damage another player's structures. And No, waiting for the pve decay timer doesn't work because you're going up against very active tribes. 

This is what a no-land-claim system in Atlas will be like. Please do NOT make the mistake of thinking it won't happen. The majority of us want the claiming system BECAUSE it stops anyone from doing this shit to you. It also prevents the blocking of resources, pillaring your ships/docks, or forcing you out by caging you in your base, because no one can build in your claim area. 

I promise you this right now: When this no-claim thing proves to become the griefing-fest we all know it will, the devs will not help us. 

You are truly the minority if you think no claim is a good thing. 

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3 hours ago, Hattrix said:

I know this wasn't directed at me, but me and my 3 friends DID just that and it was awesome! We have zero lag, zero griefing, zero problem leveling and zero issues gathering resources and building .... it was great and I hope my gameplay after the wipe is exactly the same.

We DID build in lawless. But some asian group, a large one, moved onto the same island and pillar/foundation bombed almost every free spot left on the whole island. If the devs hadn't disabled the resource blocking of pillars and foundations, NOTHING would have spawned in on that island. And I'm sure their goal was to do just that, and prevent anyone else from getting a place of their own. 

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You must have found the 3 luckiest untouched lawless islands ever. I tried building a small dock on a lawless island i visited every day, i got the foundations down, and one layer of walls. Ran off to get more wood and thatch on the other side of the island and i came back to pillar spam completely around me, so close that i cant build the second layer of walls.

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3 minutes ago, bigfishrob said:

WIPE GOOD.   It is early access.. expect wipes and bugs...or go play a dedi

We understand the wipe is needed. Its not the wipe that is bothering most people.

Its the fact that burning down the entire claim system and making the world lawless has a helluva lot more drawbacks than positives, and is going to necessitate another wipe to fix it down the road. This is what we want to avoid.

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Idc what anyone says, Meatsammich has the right of it. Totally, completely, and never better said.

I've always tried to be patient, and understanding, of the Devs' positions in all of this, but even to me it has become obvious that they cater only to PvP, and care little about PvE, even though we are at MINIMUM... 45% of the player base of the whole game.

Whats worse is that the Devs aren't responding to any of this. I'm not even sure they actually read anything we say. If they did, they wouldn't be completely removing the claiming system from PvE, they would simply restrict it LIKE EVERYONE HAS ASKED/RECOMMENDED FROM THE BEGINNING. 

How the holy FUCK can a dev team of any game so grossly ignore their player base is absolutely mind blowing. Its as if they don't even live on the same planet as the rest of us humans, and have forgotten how rotten people can actually be.

I will try the new system, but I do expect it to fail miserably. But here is my problem: I don't think the Devs will care about PvE failing, the griefing that will be, the pillaring, foundation spamming... resource and ship blocking.... You have but to look at Ark PvE to see THAT clearly enough. 

And I'm really saddened, disheartened, that this game has SO much potential, and yet the very creators of it will also be its demise, along with all the griefers/exploiters/greedy ass people who will ruin it for other players.

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Sell a product for £20, drive the playerbase away, have a viable excuse for shutting the servers down.

Repeat.

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The new PvP claim system will also not work in pve. I do not want a landlord that can wipe my building because he can. I want some sort of protection against grievers. 1 claim would work if I can build house Penn and shipyard in it and all extra buildings like balloonships that will come in the future. But I think they did do the math and see that 1 claim per players will still leave players without land.

 

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I just want to point out that there are actually legitimate reasons for spamming pillars and foundations, and it's not all griefing.  If you have a hog for a neighbor who tries grabbing up every square inch, you have to put them out in self defense.  Same for important resources.  So this is going to happen with this new design, and the difficult part is telling the good guys from the bad guys with it.  (Which is why support is never going to go around banning people over it)

Without claims, it's the only way people can claim land, and people want to claim land.

They should have just done limits.

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1 hour ago, Winter Thorne said:

I just want to point out that there are actually legitimate reasons for spamming pillars and foundations, and it's not all griefing.  If you have a hog for a neighbor who tries grabbing up every square inch, you have to put them out in self defense.  Same for important resources.  So this is going to happen with this new design, and the difficult part is telling the good guys from the bad guys with it.  (Which is why support is never going to go around banning people over it)

Without claims, it's the only way people can claim land, and people want to claim land.

They should have just done limits.

I have to agree with this. In Ark we did pillar off the beaver dams to preserve the paste supply. Building anywhere near them killed off the spawns. Also if you have any plans on upgrading your area you needed to create a sort of bubble around your area to prevent other from stopping your progress. 

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3 hours ago, Winter Thorne said:

I just want to point out that there are actually legitimate reasons for spamming pillars and foundations, and it's not all griefing.  If you have a hog for a neighbor who tries grabbing up every square inch, you have to put them out in self defense.  Same for important resources.  So this is going to happen with this new design, and the difficult part is telling the good guys from the bad guys with it.  (Which is why support is never going to go around banning people over it)

Without claims, it's the only way people can claim land, and people want to claim land.

They should have just done limits.

Aye, back to Ark style, which is the same reason that the rest of my crew and I didn't leave the legacy server we were on, and jut quit instead. We tried to start about a week after the new servers launched, and the first 6 servers we each checked out were already pillared and foundationed to hell, decided that it wasn't worth it to combat that and start all over again.

This iteration is going to fail too, the only question is if the devs will decide on another wipe in another couple months to fix what they're screwing up this time, or if they're just going to throw up their hands and say the hell with it, PvE is what it is.

After PvE was literally less than a minute's talk in an hour+ devstream, and literally 3 lines in a 3000 word document, I think I already have the answer.

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23 minutes ago, MeatSammich said:

Aye, back to Ark style, which is the same reason that the rest of my crew and I didn't leave the legacy server we were on, and jut quit instead. We tried to start about a week after the new servers launched, and the first 6 servers we each checked out were already pillared and foundationed to hell, decided that it wasn't worth it to combat that and start all over again.

This iteration is going to fail too, the only question is if the devs will decide on another wipe in another couple months to fix what they're screwing up this time, or if they're just going to throw up their hands and say the hell with it, PvE is what it is.

After PvE was literally less than a minute's talk in an hour+ devstream, and literally 3 lines in a 3000 word document, I think I already have the answer.

Yeah.... Just look at PvE on Ark. They've never bothered to help people who've been boxed in, walled in, walled out, foundation or pillar bombed. They don't care about PvE, and thats really damn sad. Why even offer it if you're not going to care about the people who choose to play that style? 

I just don't know. 

I'll tell you this much though... as of right now I'm bored as hell. I don't own a lot of games. I can't afford them. So I'm sitting here wondering what to do with my time, because there is no point in doing anything on officials since they're just gonna wipe it all anyway, and I'm skiddish about going to unofficial because I've heard a lot of people say they started on one, was getting pretty built up, only for the server to vanish because the owner didn't/couldn't afford to pay the bill. 

The Devs need to go ahead and do their wipe/update so those of us morons who are actually willing to try the new system out on officials (and prove their decisions in this are wrong!) can get on with it. 

The longer they leave it all in limbo like this, the more people will be gone permanently.

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