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MeatSammich

We are PvE/Claim issues and solutions

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Posted (edited)

Renamed the thread in the interest of fairness due to the fact that both Jat and Dollie have popped into the thread. 3/4

 

-The vast majority of the people DESPISE the land claim changes on PvE. Being unable to protect the resources from griefers, being unable to protect yourself from griefers deciding that they don't want anyone building within a half islands worth of distance, ugly pillars and foundations everywhere, people griefing the hell out of ships and blocking harbors, plus blocking you from ever expanding your base by builkding as close as possible on either side of you - hell, they already did that with the claim overlaps as it was, and now EVERYWHERE is going to be like that?

- A portion of the people hate the idea of the wipe, yeah, I know it's necessary due to land changes and because of the rampant dupeing going on, as well as to re-test the new settings. However, right now, a large portion of the apprehensions isn't just losing what they've worked for, its also fear that this means wipes on a semi-regular basis, so why bother doing everything, again - especially with the land system being so completely against what 95% of the players want, they are going to expect another wipe in a couple months to try again.

-Playershops in settlements on PVP, but PVE just gets freeport vendors. Seriously? WTF?  This idea has been floated multiple times on both here and reddit, and the general consensus was that PvE players liked it, but PvP players responses were 'Cool, but pointless, we don't trade and would just blow each others shops up anyway."

-Abandoned ships still not getting mentioned as any solution found for them. Again, seriously? Yay! The wipe will take care of them, but what about all the ships from the people week 1 after the wipe, who decide to try it again, and realize that the new system is just Ark griefing all over again and quit after a week?

(Yeah, the last two are somewhat minor compared to the first one, but, it is something that has time to be changed)

 

I know that the devs enjoy the PvP side of things, and are in contact with a few of the megas over there, but there is another 50% (give or take) of people playing your game on PvE. Let me introduce you to them. (Say Hi, guys).

We are the PvErs, we're generally the ones who prefer a low-key playstyle, without being griefed, and without being forced to worry about play schedules. That doesn't mean that we don't play the hell out of games that hold our interest, for 300, 500, 700, 1000 hours+ in 2 months...and recruit our friends/significant others to play those games with us.

We build - you guys must love seeing our buildings, you post them on the community spotlight, but these changes, and the upkeep decay, are going to prevent that, because some douchecanoe can just block us from building that last wing of our 12th century japanese fishing port recreation, or our dock and pirate village, complete with shops that have signs, counters, everything but actual traders.

We trade - Some of us joined the game to be pirates, and fight SotD all day (Thanks for the new types, btw). Some of us joined the game to be traders, wanting to travel the world for rare and exotic resources and tames, and bringing them back to our base that was designed and built to be a trading port, land to sell at a profit to our neighbors, or to be the one stop shop that sells high end goods to people from the surrounding areas...but we don't even get player shops on our lands, and with no claims, anyone can build a base anywhere, to get any resource, or just go to the closest freeport.

We explore - Unfortunately, if you choose to be a builder, the upkeep costs are going to make you a farmer instead of an explorer.

We socialize - We're on official because yes, we want the full map, but also because thats where the population is, or at least should be. But, if no one is coming by to trade, and if the overall population drops even lower due to the claim changes and people who get fed up with griefing, then there will be no one to socialize with.

 

Grapeshot, the uproar on these boards isn't because we hate the game, we love it. We're also the ones who spend 300, 500, 1000+ hours playing on PvE. You guys have a dedicated, passionate playerbase that a lot of other devs would kill for. A player base that has been telling their friends about the game, but telling them to wait to get it, because it is so close to being so badass. A player base who wants you to listen to them, and what they've seen and wished for over their literally millions of hours of playtime over the last 2 months.

You said a month or so ago, that you guys heard us. With all due respect, you may have heard, but you didn't listen. You HEARD the complaints over land claim, and decided to exercise the nuclear option and got rid of claims entirely, instead of actually LISTENING to people and finding a reasonable way to limit those claims. (even 10 per company with <25 members, 25 for companies of 25-100 members and 50 for companies with 100+ people would have more than enough land for people, and left a huge amount of open areas for new players - especially with the extra 200+ islands coming)

Edited by MeatSammich
renamed the thread in the interest of fairness
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Spot on.

It's boiling my piss.  I'm quite happy playing solo, but I have a good relationship with the other groups on our island-we all look out for each other.  My base is small-fits within 2 flags because I'm not greedy.

I've spent +400 hours, despite having a full time job and wife building up my base and adding a harbour to prevent my ships being sunk again through poorly thought out and exploitable mechanics.

I've travelled the seas looking for resources to build because of the change to structure  costs , but still find myself and my tames standing on the ground because we've fallen through the cliff platform.  That or lose pets to aggro that manage to glitch into my base.

I've spent hours trying to get past stacked monsters in order to hit the fountain upon reaching level 90+.  Twice.

I've had to go and replace NPCs that bounced off into the sunset when unseating and had to try to remember where exactly I was 15 mins ago prior to the unannounced rollback following a server crash to find the bear I was sitting on.

I've been through alpha spams, SOTD spams, and been camped by packs of wolves.

 

Are they saying that this unannounced and unwanted wipe is going to solve all of the other problems we're experiencing here? 

Are they fuck.

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3 hours ago, MeatSammich said:

I know that the devs enjoy the PvP side of things, and are in contact with a few of the megas over there, but there is another 50% (give or take) of people playing your game on PvE. Let me introduce you to them. (Say Hi, guys).

 

Hi, Devs.  I know you're out there.  I can hear you breathing.

MeatSammich is right, and has been the most right of anybody representing the pve reaction to these changes since the announcement.  There is also an excellent post from one of the "top companies", Darksea Dawgs 

https://www.playatlas.com/index.php?/forums/topic/51432-please-re-think-the-flag-system-on-pve/&page=2&tab=comments#comment-286113

It would be really nice if you would listen to your playerbase before making this rotten change and forcing us all to have to do the work to prove to you that it's a mistake.  If you consider these changes logically, you should be able to reach the same conclusions we did.   We've persisted through the bugs, the network issues, the griefers, and the hackers.  I don't think it's too much to ask that you don't make us all waste a lot of time going out to the test server and showing you what a bad decision this would be.  There are only so many hoops people are willing to jump through to help you make decisions which would have seemed reasonable and sensible in the first place.

 

If you have information that we don't that indicates these changes are the better way to go, you might do us the favor of explaining that. 

 If not, here's a recap of what you've just told us:

You've said you were unhappy with claims, so we are removing them.  You don't get to own anything anymore, and everyone can build wherever they want, even if it blocks your resources, your doors, and your ships.  We're also adding decay and upkeep so now you have to collect mats and repair everything frequently.  Happy yet?  But wait, there's more.

In order to do this, we're going to wipe the servers.  

We're also adding a lot of new content, and with our stated goal of helping solos and small companies, we've gated that behind the kraken.

But here's a hat.  Isn't that great?

 

You're probably not very happy seeing everyone raging on the forums about these changes.  But you know what's worse than seeing everyone raging on the forums?  Not having anyone on the forums at all.

 

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Well I left the game a long time ago when there was no flags at all. Every grid you come to was covered in red circles, I was fed up of it and decided to leave the game because of this.

I must say I am very happy with the changes, so just to let the devs know not everyone hates these changes. I am coming back to the game and I hear others are also because they now have a chance in finding land without the dreaded red circles cluttering the map.

The other small detail about having red circles everywhere is you couldn't see your red X on the map, so hopefully this is solved now.

Thank You for these changes, I look forward to coming back to the game and enjoy it.

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2 minutes ago, MrMagoo said:

Well I left the game a long time ago when there was no flags at all. Every grid you come to was covered in red circles, I was fed up of it and decided to leave the game because of this.

I must say I am very happy with the changes, so just to let the devs know not everyone hates these changes. I am coming back to the game and I hear others are also because they now have a chance in finding land without the dreaded red circles cluttering the map.

The other small detail about having red circles everywhere is you couldn't see your red X on the map, so hopefully this is solved now.

Thank You for these changes, I look forward to coming back to the game and enjoy it.

You say your happy with the changes but I assure you your in the minority. Some of us have been there and done it with Ark already and that has some of the most toxic official servers you'll find in any game.

Here in lies the problem, you gave up and left. Some of us kept plugging away, sometimes waiting weeks to snag a bit of land to call home and I'm solo 99% of the time. I don't want to live in a slum and thats why I put that effort in. If you enjoy living in a free for all environment theres a place for that.

Flags are not the problem, not having a cap is. Imagine if companies were limited to 20 claims each, I can guarantee you there wouldn't be nearly as many red circles on the map.

 

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20 minutes ago, LoneXS said:

You say your happy with the changes but I assure you your in the minority. Some of us have been there and done it with Ark already and that has some of the most toxic official servers you'll find in any game.

Here in lies the problem, you gave up and left. Some of us kept plugging away, sometimes waiting weeks to snag a bit of land to call home and I'm solo 99% of the time. I don't want to live in a slum and thats why I put that effort in. If you enjoy living in a free for all environment theres a place for that.

Flags are not the problem, not having a cap is. Imagine if companies were limited to 20 claims each, I can guarantee you there wouldn't be nearly as many red circles on the map.

 

Yeah, his comment kind of cracked me up.  He (I think) was unhappy because he couldn't find land to claim and everything was covered in red circles, cluttering the map and he couldn't see his X.  :classic_wacko:

Wait till he comes back in, can't find more than 2 square inches not covered by pillars and can't see anything but thatch.

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17 minutes ago, Winter Thorne said:

Yeah, his comment kind of cracked me up.  He (I think) was unhappy because he couldn't find land to claim and everything was covered in red circles, cluttering the map and he couldn't see his X.  :classic_wacko:

Wait till he comes back in, can't find more than 2 square inches not covered by pillars and can't see anything but thatch.

Pretty much, lawless can be bad for it but Imagine what it will be like when you can spam them EVERYWHERE. Heck I don't like my neighbour, time to pillar in his boats. The trolling is gonna be crazy just like Ark 😞

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1 hour ago, LoneXS said:

You say your happy with the changes but I assure you your in the minority. Some of us have been there and done it with Ark already and that has some of the most toxic official servers you'll find in any game.

Here in lies the problem, you gave up and left. Some of us kept plugging away, sometimes waiting weeks to snag a bit of land to call home and I'm solo 99% of the time. I don't want to live in a slum and thats why I put that effort in. If you enjoy living in a free for all environment theres a place for that.

Flags are not the problem, not having a cap is. Imagine if companies were limited to 20 claims each, I can guarantee you there wouldn't be nearly as many red circles on the map.

 

Well the majority have already left I'm sorry to say, so the only minority is people playing with the current system with the claim flags, the few thousand if that.

I did not play Ark, I can't comment on it so you have more knowledge over me on that. Most people I spoke to when the game came out and the weeks after it was problems to do with no land and spamming flags. If it brings people back then it will be a good thing, I know people are very upset but they will have to live with it and play or give it up like I and many thousands did.

 

1 hour ago, Winter Thorne said:

Yeah, his comment kind of cracked me up.  He (I think) was unhappy because he couldn't find land to claim and everything was covered in red circles, cluttering the map and he couldn't see his X.  :classic_wacko:

Wait till he comes back in, can't find more than 2 square inches not covered by pillars and can't see anything but thatch.

It can crack you up all it likes, we all have our own views on it. I'm not the only one who didn't like how it worked, go and ask the thousands that have left the game and the minority like yourself that have remained.

I know you might be upset on the system changing judging by your response but that's how it is unfortunately. If it gets more people back into the game that has to be a good thing, we will have to see how it develops with the new system.

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31 minutes ago, MrMagoo said:

Well the majority have already left I'm sorry to say, so the only minority is people playing with the current system with the claim flags, the few thousand if that.

I did not play Ark, I can't comment on it so you have more knowledge over me on that. Most people I spoke to when the game came out and the weeks after it was problems to do with no land and spamming flags. If it brings people back then it will be a good thing, I know people are very upset but they will have to live with it and play or give it up like I and many thousands did.

 

 

Why didn't you go live on lawless?

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Its just an idea it's not perfect, i'm thinking out loud.

 

At first I was like “1 claim for island” nice. But as I put more thinking in to it, its going to make situation even worse.

Spawning in every node/map is not gona help ether.

An idea is good but not for early stage of game.

 

I think an pvp and pve is needed to have claim flags system, but it can’t be tied to how fast your internet is or did you take a vacation from work in wipe day.

 

I think right now, that claim has to be owned not steal or grab.

 

First introduced a Storage unit in Freeport for every player and company as a save-haven, should be limited number of slots/weight. Or maybe not in Freeport, but give as a City States (where no one can build but they have a storage unit) on other maps. It can be a tiny island like some freeports now, or a place on existing islands as a wall off territory, or already claim by Dev Company.

 

Side note, get rid of the raft and ramshak sloop and introduce a long boat whit sail (row boat that can use a sail and a paddle, in size of a dingy, no ability to build on it, no NPC crew, no lvl, one sail, 2 ppl max.

 

Claim should be a place to build not a place to exploit others.

 

Next a progression towards a claim.

TL;DR Obtaining and having claim should require time end effort.

 

If everyone will be able to claim land as a server will go live it will be a mayhem for servers, but if it will take time to grab even a single spot, it can give more hope for others.

A claim should be unlock whit a skill, and cost resources, and should be limited by a time e.g. 1 claim/24h/company. I know it will be abused but its a restriction, better some, then non.

 

Claim land should have Stages, At first is unstable and its requires a constant upkeep. Like hard, a bazillion resource per hour for like 4 – 6 h ( it should stop spamming because its need an attention and if not, it will die. It just come to me, that I describe a breading mechanics… anyway I hope you get the point.

 

Even if a 100 ppl create 100 company they probably wont be able to upkeep them all in that time frame, and if they can they should have it.

 

And in this time frame the claim can be contested ( this will be a nice view, fighting and feeding flags in the same time 🙂 )

 

And yes a flag itself has to get the resource not some magic box type of stuff.

 

Also Flags should have an area of influence, in which no one can set up another flag. To stop overlapping. And if you want to set up another of yours it have to be overlap your previous flag in like 20 %. If is not it will be gone. In this case spaming flag will be unjustified. Some like a civilization mechanics.

 

I was thinking to sell first claim as a permit for one island, but is a pirate mmo so permit may bye out of context here.

 

I know there are a loop holes in my idea, but in my mind the main problem is that now and after a wipe a 100 man company whit high speed internet can easy claim whole atlas and make it its private.

 

And about PVE I think it can be the same mechanics.

 

P.S. It just came to me.

For PVE Maybe if someone place stuff in a radius of your auto repair box it can be destroy, and ad to that some overlapping restriction, that your have overlap and someone else can’t. So it will work like claim.

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Posted (edited)

I believe, after watching the stream and listening to the devs, building foundations ect still gives you the same distance buffer between you and the next available spot. So .... find the plot of land you like, get your shipyards and house up and you should be fine ... just like now. What's the problem?

Also, there are going to be more than 100 islands added. Along with the millions that are leaving because they're ticked off, there should be a ton of open land outside of lawless to start your base.

Edited by Hattrix
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4 minutes ago, Hattrix said:

I believe, after watching the stream and listening to the devs, building foundations ect still gives you the same distance buffer between you and the next available spot. So .... find the plot of land you like, get your shipyards and house up and you should be fine ... just like now. What's the problem?

The building buffer is so small you can build a barn over your neighbors house and lock the doors.

If you make the buffer big enough, congratulations, you've just reinvented claims.  With upkeep.  And still no limits.

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37 minutes ago, Winter Thorne said:

Why didn't you go live on lawless?

I know this wasn't directed at me, but me and my 3 friends DID just that and it was awesome! We have zero lag, zero griefing, zero problem leveling and zero issues gathering resources and building .... it was great and I hope my gameplay after the wipe is exactly the same.

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Just now, Hattrix said:

I know this wasn't directed at me, but me and my 3 friends DID just that and it was awesome! We have zero lag, zero griefing, zero problem leveling and zero issues gathering resources and building .... it was great and I hope my gameplay after the wipe is exactly the same.

I lived on lawless for most of the game so far, and it was terrible, especially after they reduced the buffer.  People would just slap down ugly stuff 4 tiles away from you until you could barely get through to your spot.  They built shipyards that blocked the whole inner harbor and everyone in it.  They walled off whole sections of the island, resources, etc.  And the people with claims would come there, set up a few bits of ugly crap so they could get back easily with no regard for the people actually trying to have a base there.

The reason I asked him the question though, was because he was talking about people leaving the game because they couldn't find claims, so I'm guess they didn't like lawless.  Well, the new change makes everything just like lawless..and he seems to be happy about that, which is odd.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Winter Thorne said:

The building buffer is so small you can build a barn over your neighbors house and lock the doors.

If you make the buffer big enough, congratulations, you've just reinvented claims.  With upkeep.  And still no limits.

Are you saying that the buffer size is shrinking more than it currently is??

If so, then yes, that's bad.

If not then you're describing an issue that doesn't exist on ANY of the lawless islands I've visited..not 1 ... ever.

So I stand by my view that PVE outside of freeports and lawless will be no big deal.  Post-wipe lawless will have a quicker decay timer. Post-wipe outside lawless or freeport you need a repair building with longer decay timer.

I don't see the problem. Please elaborate. I'm not trying to legit mean argue. I enjoy the discussion and hope we can continue to hash it out.

Edited by Hattrix

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9 minutes ago, Hattrix said:

Are you saying that the buffer size is shrinking more than it currently is??

If so, then yes, that's bad.

If not then you're describing an issue that doesn't exist on ANY of the lawless islands I've visited..not 1 ... ever.

So I stand by my view that PVE outside of freeports and lawless will be no big deal.  Post-wipe lawless will have a quicker decay timer. Post-wipe outside lawless or freeport you need a repair building with longer decay timer.

I don't see the problem. Please elaborate. I'm not trying to legit mean argue. I enjoy the discussion and hope we can continue to hash it out.

I'm not meaning to argue either, but you've just said that my experience doesn't matter because you personally didn't see it, so that's not a very good start.

I don't dispute that you had a nice lawless spot, nor that the ones you've seen looked ok.  I expect a lot of that depends on timing and maybe the player attrition as the game goes on.  I have seen some that weren't too bad, but I didn't live there, so I don't really know the animosity levels or what happened with resources, etc.

I've read nothing that says they are further shrinking buffer size.  At one point they DID shrink it on lawless.  I wasn't able to get in there immediately to spam foundations around my stuff, and when I got back there were shacks and storage cabinets all around my small place there, all as close as they could possibly get.  And I didn't have much space to begin with..probably about 1/4 of a claim.

All I can say about these changes is that the majority of pve complaints here had to do with claims and people not wanting to live on lawless.  The 2 major suggestions were claim restrictions or upkeep, with virtually nobody at all suggesting everything just be lawless.  If you enjoy living there, you're in the minority.  If they implement this new system, there's nothing to prevent your lawless looking like my lawless, so I hope you are lucky in that regard.

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4 minutes ago, Winter Thorne said:

I'm not meaning to argue either, but you've just said that my experience doesn't matter because you personally didn't see it, so that's not a very good start.

Sorry if my sentence came off that way. That was not the intention at all. Just that the issue is completely foreign to every lawless I've been on (which admittedly isn't more than 3 servers). All lawless I've been on had open space to build and (from the looks) fairly considerate builders. I ever floated the idea to my 3 friends that we COULD build a big base on EVERY lawless server I found since land was so abundant.

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Posted (edited)

The point in all of this is some people have persisted throughout all the difficulties.

The devs stance prior to this bombshell was the changes being made are there to benefit the small groups and solo players.

The reality is this only creates a situation where anyone deciding to start anew will be forced into large groups just in case they decide to take a holiday and lose everything.  That and with the constant worry that all your hard work and grinding will come to naught the next time some idiot decided a wipe's a good idea.

New content? Nope, you need to be in an org sizable enough to take on an endgame boss.

 

Nah, fuck your game.  I fold.

 

[edit]  FYI, I persisted for the first 2 weeks on lawless servers before finding a spot.  Now, I can go to pretty much any island within 2 grids and find a spot to build.

Edited by Jizzah
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I also lived in 2 different lawless areas for about 3 weeks. First one was amazing, very friendly talkative group of people. Bought my first elephant from someone, went out hunting SOTD with a couple but space was at a premium. There was a lot of crap everywhere. Second zone was god awful, my neighbours were complete tools, no one really spoke in global and it was just the polar opposite.

So I've experienced both ends on the spectrum. I think Lawless is a great place to start out and get a feel for things but nothing can compare to get your first bit of land knowing full well its yours and no one can ruin it.

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1 minute ago, LoneXS said:

I also lived in 2 different lawless areas for about 3 weeks. First one was amazing, very friendly talkative group of people. Bought my first elephant from someone, went out hunting SOTD with a couple but space was at a premium. There was a lot of crap everywhere. Second zone was god awful, my neighbours were complete tools, no one really spoke in global and it was just the polar opposite.

So I've experienced both ends on the spectrum. I think Lawless is a great place to start out and get a feel for things but nothing can compare to get your first bit of land knowing full well its yours and no one can ruin it.

Except the devs...

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7 minutes ago, Jizzah said:

Except the devs...

There is that 😞

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2 hours ago, Winter Thorne said:

Why didn't you go live on lawless?

We actually lived on the freeport I believe when there was no damage to buildings and the times of shipyards everywhere. We went out to look for flags at the time and saw a sea of red on every island you come across, not a good look and wasn't a good system.

Why they allowed people to spam flags everywhere I will never know but I for one am glad they are gone. They system has changed to add some sort of upkeep on buildings, I like that idea, it isn't just like lawless decaying.

I know you're angry losing flags but the people such as yourself will have to ask yourself, do I want to still play? If the answer is no then leave the game like I did and come back to it later or continue to play the new system and see how it turns out, there is no in-between.

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1 hour ago, Hattrix said:

Are you saying that the buffer size is shrinking more than it currently is??

If so, then yes, that's bad.

If not then you're describing an issue that doesn't exist on ANY of the lawless islands I've visited..not 1 ... ever.

So I stand by my view that PVE outside of freeports and lawless will be no big deal.  Post-wipe lawless will have a quicker decay timer. Post-wipe outside lawless or freeport you need a repair building with longer decay timer.

I don't see the problem. Please elaborate. I'm not trying to legit mean argue. I enjoy the discussion and hope we can continue to hash it out.

all areas will be the same lawless regions now will be same as all other grids on pve , it wont be as it is now , that only applies to pvp 

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14 minutes ago, MrMagoo said:

We actually lived on the freeport I believe when there was no damage to buildings and the times of shipyards everywhere. We went out to look for flags at the time and saw a sea of red on every island you come across, not a good look and wasn't a good system.

Why they allowed people to spam flags everywhere I will never know but I for one am glad they are gone. They system has changed to add some sort of upkeep on buildings, I like that idea, it isn't just like lawless decaying.

I know you're angry losing flags but the people such as yourself will have to ask yourself, do I want to still play? If the answer is no then leave the game like I did and come back to it later or continue to play the new system and see how it turns out, there is no in-between.

I'm not angry losing A flag.  I'm angry about nobody getting any more claims ever.  You know a simple restricting on number of claims would have fixed it for everyone including you.

I lived on lawless for most of this time.  I have had one claim flag for a couple weeks now.  I don't want to go back to lawless.

If the thought of living on lawless was enough to make you quit the game before, then you won't be happy once everything is just like lawless.  And it will be just like lawless.

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9 minutes ago, MrMagoo said:

We actually lived on the freeport I believe when there was no damage to buildings and the times of shipyards everywhere. We went out to look for flags at the time and saw a sea of red on every island you come across, not a good look and wasn't a good system.

Why they allowed people to spam flags everywhere I will never know but I for one am glad they are gone. They system has changed to add some sort of upkeep on buildings, I like that idea, it isn't just like lawless decaying.

I know you're angry losing flags but the people such as yourself will have to ask yourself, do I want to still play? If the answer is no then leave the game like I did and come back to it later or continue to play the new system and see how it turns out, there is no in-between.

I'm sorry but arrogance of that statement is mind numbing. We stuck around because it was hard and because we want it to be better. To say 'if you don't like it leave' is the dumbest statement I've read in a while. 

Heck you didn't even make it past freeport in a group I assume judging by the way you describe it? Where as I managed to get my own patch after a month of scouting and smart play. Solo. And that would have only been easier if they had capped claims at the start.

I'm not sure why your under the assumption that 99% of the people that have left put it down to land. Off the 12 or so people I know that played Atlas and ended up going back to Ark, not one left because of land. Different circles I assume.

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