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=MGC=Ranger

Am I losing all my work?

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7 hours ago, =MGC=Ranger said:

Having it taken with no regard is why we are upset. Think what you want, but for me, I am not happy about my time being wasted.

You're whining to whine.  It's not "with no regard", it's for the betterment of the game.

Your time is only wasted if you went into this thinking the game was complete and not still in EARLY DEVELOPMENT.  It's like people don't understand what early access means.  You see the light blue box with text in it, ignore it, and click buy.  Then you complain about development things happening, even though there was a bright blue box explaining that development can and will happen, buyer beware.

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13 minutes ago, CazzT said:

I wonder what changed between 1999 and now then.  People who played EQ1, a MMO known for it's excruciating grind and camp-for-items/quest updates, had jobs and they were able to progress without whining like petulant children.  Whenever I see someone say "but i has a job!!!" as an excuse to not get something done in a game, I have to wonder how your parents were able to manage their time so much better than you can.

*cough* It's not a given they did *cough*

https://www.olganon.org/forum/i-need-help-spousessignificant-others-open-forum/everquest-widows-site

Not that i'm agreeing with the OP, just pointing out that super grindy games aren't always managed well by players. Some people develop gaming addictions and lose perspective. Also in fairness to play devil's advocate a huge difference was the lack of competing options on the marketplace. EQ could get away with forcing players to grind because it was a paradigm shift in gaming. No one had ever seen anything quite like it before. Fast forward 20 years where online gaming offers a vast plurality of options, and one of the things developers have to contend with is putting enough grind in to keep players playing, but no so much they leave for a less grindy game.

But yes, regardless of all other considerations, the OP purchased a game clearly marked as EA. Complaints after the fact of losing stuff due to needed development changes and iterations in testing are not something which deserve much sympathy imo.

5 hours ago, Ben de Witt said:

Everybody is able to understand the emotions of dissapointment and frustration because of the wipe. But the game is in developement, it is not finished. You have to adapt your assessments about the game to the developement process you take part in.

Very well said.

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On 3/2/2019 at 2:49 AM, =MGC=Ranger said:

Guess Im done with this game then, oh well. I sailed for weeks to find a claimed piece of land, worked my ass off to build what I had. It was a great game while it lasted. Thank god I only paid 20 bucks for it.

It's an MMO in development you should have expected full wipes to happen... I don't think this will be the only one either.

 

Best to celebrate back when the game is finished. 

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On 3/2/2019 at 5:38 AM, Ivah BlackWater said:

     Just because another game made it through a EA with no wipe doesn't mean another game won't. FFS people!, stop your crying and see this as an opportunity to start fresh. If you think all your hard work is being wiped out then maybe Hello Kitty Online (or heaven forbid Fortnite) is something more up your alley. Did you have fun up until now? I am sure you did, as you are still here. Most people got their money's worth from the game so far.

     Use this time to find what island you want to live on, (specially to those that were stuck living on Lawless), start building your base (plan it, take screen shots to remember), build cool looking ships for future reference. Set all your tames on wandering, aggressive and watch them destroy everything in their path. Go have fun on the seas, be reckless! Who cares if you lose a ship..With the 6X you can build another one and in an hour be out again for fun. Go ram your ships into docks and watch them explode. 

     Meet people to form alliances with, use this month you have to YOUR advantage.. Stop looking at this as doom and gloom and put a positive spin on it. And before anyone says anything about my hours and blah, blah blah is.. I have over 700+ hours, shit TONS of tames, ships, base cities, ton of discoveries, and more. I am welcoming this wipe. 

     I have beta and alpha tested A LOT of games and over 20 years of online gaming under my belt. There were plenty of games that have had wipes, and many that should of had wipes. Nothing is permanent. 

P.S. Lighten up, enjoy life, smile more, laugh more, and don't get so worked up about things. There are worse things in life.

The difference between you and those of us who are against this are we have jobs, families and real life. We can’t log 700 + hours in a little over 2 months time because we have real life to deal with. 

I play every day and long periods of time on the weekends, I check the forums and such at work because I’m not able to play anytime I want. 

So in other words where you have the free time to build and play the game in order to log 700+ hours and complete the content that’s already out, the rest of us don’t. So losing what progress we have hurts. 

  And yes before you say it, we signed up for a EA game where we could have waited for the full release but honestly most of us wanted to be part of the game as it grows, not work our asses off for a POS cosmetic item. 

  There was no mention of a wipe anywhere in the EA agreement, in nothing Atlas had posted or anything else, do you really think any of who is against it would be saying anything if we knew it was going to happen ? I know I would have played the game a lot differently and wouldn’t have been so worked up on hearing the news about it.   If I had known the wipe was going to happen then I may have waited till the full release because at this point I’ve wasted over 400 hours of my life and have nothing to show for it but these forums where I’ve posted.

   Right now I’m trying to decide whether to give the game another chance or move on to something else and start building again.

  You understand that having a family, job and adult responsibilities is not a excuse? I’ve logged well over 400 hours into the game and often said it’s a beautiful frustration.  My complaint isn’t that I’ve lost things due to bugs or glitches as the game develops, not at all, I signed on for that when I signed on to play a early access game. I didn’t sign on or expect a full wipe without a hard save. I didn’t expect to lose my character name, company name or the buildings I’ve built. 

 I am not playing pvp where things are expected to be taken and destroyed so when the mention of losing everything in a pve game where there are so many other things that still needs addressed is like a slap in the face.

  Now all you haters that keep saying we are whining have yet to say one thing as to why a wipe is needed. You all just keep saying we are fools for thinking it wouldn’t. 

   Kinda makes me think if you knew it was going to happen if your not part of the reason it is happening, are you all amongst the ones who were using exploits and being griefers. Are you all part of the problems the game has had instead of being part of the solution.

   I see people on these forums who have been here since the start and then I look at the new people who are pushing for the wipe and giving those against it such a hard time, it really makes me wonder if your accounts haven’t been banned or if you are the ones who lost stuff and got fed up and quit the game and now want to see everyone else lose their stuff so it will make you feel better. 

  

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Further more why does anyone expect a wipe to happen when they start playing a early access game ? Show me the text that says anything about wiping the servers because it’s a early access game ? Now let me state that wiping a server and develop as the game grows is two different things. So before you throw that out there.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Daemon Cross said:

Further more why does anyone expect a wipe to happen when they start playing a early access game ? Show me the text that says anything about wiping the servers because it’s a early access game ? Now let me state that wiping a server and develop as the game grows is two different things. So before you throw that out there.

I've been in maybe 30 or so Early Access games.  Every single one of them that wiped said they would in the EA rundown, and the ones that didn't did not.  So far only one game hasn't put that information clearly in the EA info.

People like to post the Steam generic EA banner, but they're not including the game specific questionnaire that each dev fills out.  Atlas states that we should expect the MMO experience from day one of EA, which includes progression, a major aspect of MMO design.  They don't mention wipes, they mention changes.

Meanwhile, many of the other games on steam all clearly outline that there may be, or will be, progression wipes. They pair this with iterative progression rates.  Atlas is expecting people to play multiple times at live progression rates, which is just weird. 

It is on the developer to fill out the EA information appropriately.

Edited by Archsenex
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On 3/1/2019 at 9:12 PM, DocHolliday said:

I am starting to think people should have to answer a questionnaire before participating in EA.  There will probably be multiple wipes before full release and once the game is "released" it will be wiped again. 

Did you guys think they would release the game and force all the new players to compete against companies that have 2 years of infrastructure in place? 

People DO have to answer a questionnaire before participating in EA.  Those people are the developers.  The questionnaire is provided by steam.

People like to keep sharing Steam's Generic Early Access Banner, but they leave out the Developer Specific Questionnaire that was filled out that contains all this information.  Many, Many EA games that intend to do progression wipes include that they will occur in the information.  In fact, of all the EA's I've ever been in, only one of them has not listed this and then said they will.

Atlas Dev's stated that we could expect "An unparalleled MMO Experience from day one" which includes progression, a cornerstone of MMO's.

So you're right, people SHOULD have to answer a questionnaire, and then be held to that questionnaire, which is why the questionnaire exists.

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Posted (edited)

Thank you Archsenex !!!

This is my issue, it was never stated that there would be server wipes, there is absolutely nothing they can’t fix which requires a server wipe. They can eliminate claim flags, add decay timers, add upkeep boxes and add more islands all without a server wipe. They can if they choose to work with us instead of against us.  I just have a really hard time trying to justify a server wipe, the only reason I can see at all is that it cleans the game up from where they let it get to cluttered from not having the correct measures in place to start with. Furthermore if they would have been listening to the public and addressed the issues of claims and such then it would have saved a lot of the population the game once had. 

  I’m still losing tames as I travel through regions, I’m still having issues with them getting stuck in the floors, I still have issues with cobras glitching through walls, there is so much little tweaks that still need to be made, treasure maps being glitches and not able to do, dying and not able to retrieve your items, there is so much that needs done that a wipe isn’t going to fix. Everything I just mentioned is part of the development that gets resolved with time during a early access game. Adding more content, increasing level cap, adding new creatures and making changes to the UI is normally done after full release. 

  They need to address issues that exist without doing a wipe, if they can’t fix it now then when the full release does happen they will want to wipe the servers again. 

 

Edited by Daemon Cross
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2 hours ago, Daemon Cross said:

The difference between you and those of us who are against this are we have jobs, families and real life. We can’t log 700 + hours in a little over 2 months time because we have real life to deal with. 

I play every day and long periods of time on the weekends, I check the forums and such at work because I’m not able to play anytime I want. 

So in other words where you have the free time to build and play the game in order to log 700+ hours and complete the content that’s already out, the rest of us don’t. So losing what progress we have hurts. 

  And yes before you say it, we signed up for a EA game where we could have waited for the full release but honestly most of us wanted to be part of the game as it grows, not work our asses off for a POS cosmetic item. 

  There was no mention of a wipe anywhere in the EA agreement, in nothing Atlas had posted or anything else, do you really think any of who is against it would be saying anything if we knew it was going to happen ? I know I would have played the game a lot differently and wouldn’t have been so worked up on hearing the news about it.   If I had known the wipe was going to happen then I may have waited till the full release because at this point I’ve wasted over 400 hours of my life and have nothing to show for it but these forums where I’ve posted.

   Right now I’m trying to decide whether to give the game another chance or move on to something else and start building again.

  You understand that having a family, job and adult responsibilities is not a excuse? I’ve logged well over 400 hours into the game and often said it’s a beautiful frustration.  My complaint isn’t that I’ve lost things due to bugs or glitches as the game develops, not at all, I signed on for that when I signed on to play a early access game. I didn’t sign on or expect a full wipe without a hard save. I didn’t expect to lose my character name, company name or the buildings I’ve built. 

 I am not playing pvp where things are expected to be taken and destroyed so when the mention of losing everything in a pve game where there are so many other things that still needs addressed is like a slap in the face.

  Now all you haters that keep saying we are whining have yet to say one thing as to why a wipe is needed. You all just keep saying we are fools for thinking it wouldn’t. 

   Kinda makes me think if you knew it was going to happen if your not part of the reason it is happening, are you all amongst the ones who were using exploits and being griefers. Are you all part of the problems the game has had instead of being part of the solution.

   I see people on these forums who have been here since the start and then I look at the new people who are pushing for the wipe and giving those against it such a hard time, it really makes me wonder if your accounts haven’t been banned or if you are the ones who lost stuff and got fed up and quit the game and now want to see everyone else lose their stuff so it will make you feel better. 

  

I have had enough. This thread is toxic and contagious. You are a perfect example of what happened at my job. Great f'ing story. Guy keeps peeing on the outside of the building to be a douche. He keeps being given papers to sign for write up but refuses to sign them because why??? There is NO SPECIFIC RULE IN THE HANDBOOK THAT HE IS NOT ALLOWED TO PEE OUTSIDE. He is no longer with the company for various reasons but there IS a rule now that states you are NOT allowed to f'ing pee outside. wtf.

You shouldn't have to get so intricately specific with every f'ing thing ffs. You are ridiculous. They set forth an umbrella comment for a reason. That is why it's there. So you know going in that ANYTHING can happen.

I'm stepping out of bounds for the moment for this thread. Out of my comfort zone. I'm not usually so harsh. I just can't stand the fact the people are so upset about this wipe. All I can factor in is that these are people that haven't experienced much loss or hardship in their lives so this IS their hardship. A game. No RL suffering. No RL picking themselves up from the ground up repeatedly so that in a game it's nothing. Have you seen death? Been homeless as a child? Been starving? Seen or experienced severe violence? Starved? Dealt with a permanent life altering illness? I'm a feminine female but sometimes you gotta suck it up and act like a man damnit! . Here is a box of tissues, dry your eyes.

 

My apologies for that but it's much needed. You guys need to put life into perspective. I have played just as much as you all. I even have 2 accounts. The Great Purge is needed.

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11 hours ago, CazzT said:

I wonder what changed between 1999 and now then.  People who played EQ1, a MMO known for it's excruciating grind and camp-for-items/quest updates, had jobs and they were able to progress without whining like petulant children.  Whenever I see someone say "but i has a job!!!" as an excuse to not get something done in a game, I have to wonder how your parents were able to manage their time so much better than you can.

From Day 1 of Beta, EQ had massive platoons of CS people in the game.  The had a community manager posting all over the forums every day.  They had constant updates from the developers.  By the time the newness wore off and the grind and camping set in, it was quite a while into the general release, and you know why people were able to progress?  Because they didn't get wiped.  In fact, if they even ever lost 1 item to a bug, they had personal service from the CS team, and if it was provable, it was replaced.  If they had wiped all those grinders and campers, you would have heard way more than this.

The launch of EQ isn't a good comparison for this.

I'm about fed up with people being unable to disagree and have a discussion without calling people whiners and crybabies, and yelling at them to "chill out". 

It's like I bought a refrigerator and complained to GE that the icemaker didn't work, and all the other purchasers came over to my house and told me to shut the hell up.  

 

11 hours ago, CazzT said:

You're whining to whine.  It's not "with no regard", it's for the betterment of the game.

The plans for the pve servers are a kick in the teeth to the players that play there.  There is nothing in them that is about "betterment of the game".  People are not "whining" they are attempting to point this out strongly enough that the devs reconsider, and it looks like that might be successful.

On the other hand, your whining about people whining has produced nothing of value at all.  Maybe you should reconsider too.

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This is only the first wipe. Expect more to come. If you can not handle wipes then do as the steam store page suggests and wait for release.  

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36 minutes ago, Daemon Cross said:

Thank you Archsenex !!!

This is my issue, it was never stated that there would be server wipes, there is absolutely nothing they can’t fix which requires a server wipe. They can eliminate claim flags, add decay timers, add upkeep boxes and add more islands all without a server wipe. They can if they choose to work with us instead of against us.  I just have a really hard time trying to justify a server wipe, the only reason I can see at all is that it cleans the game up from where they let it get to cluttered from not having the correct measures in place to start with. Furthermore if they would have been listening to the public and addressed the issues of claims and such then it would have saved a lot of the population the game once had. 

  I’m still losing tames as I travel through regions, I’m still having issues with them getting stuck in the floors, I still have issues with cobras glitching through walls, there is so much little tweaks that still need to be made, treasure maps being glitches and not able to do, dying and not able to retrieve your items, there is so much that needs done that a wipe isn’t going to fix. Everything I just mentioned is part of the development that gets resolved with time during a early access game. Adding more content, increasing level cap, adding new creatures and making changes to the UI is normally done after full release. 

  They need to address issues that exist without doing a wipe, if they can’t fix it now then when the full release does happen they will want to wipe the servers again. 

 

Ark allowed us to go to entirely new servers without losing all our progress because they included a mechanism for it.  

You could upload your character, and your tames, in order to prepare for a transfer.  They could add that to Atlas, and allow us to upload our Tames and our Characters at a freeport.

It's not the Territory itself that I'm upset at losing, it's the Discovery point count (not even the discoveries themselves.  Give me the points and reset the explores, I don't care about that) and the Tames we spent a lot of time getting to start breeding.

Rebuilding our base won't be that bad, heck, the building is somewhat fun and we can improve our designs.  Re-gathering those resources will suck, but it won't be that bad.  But spending several hundred hours looking for breeders, and several hundred hours unlocking all those explore points, to be told "do it again".... that sucks.

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I am flabbergasted by all the people who expected no wipes in this game.  I thought that was common sense it would happen multiple times.  Everyone I know playing this game expected it.  I look forward to the wipe and I have a job, family, dogs, house, etc.  Those responsibilities are not exclusive to you and those mad about the wipe.  What you all do have in common is ignorance.  

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3 hours ago, Daemon Cross said:

Further more why does anyone expect a wipe to happen when they start playing a early access game ?

Because you have to allow failure within the process of developement. The vision of the game has to be put into the real (game) world. There is no a priori system to create game mechanics, where the developers could deduct the outcome. The outcome is mainly empirical, with real people trying to play according to the rules of game mechanics, which are in the state of test.

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I was a little disappointed when wipe was announced, it was so hard to got my stuff, after looking for a nice place to stablished, sailing in my raft around the map for 80 or 90 hours until finally found a couple of islands in lawless zone to build a base. Then, i build some ships and discover like 100 places and tame several bears and wolves. I already played +300 hours and is a little annoying to see dissaper all we have and all the effort to got it.

But, it's ok if this wipe happend to fix claim system or put some new mechanics, isn't the end of the world, is just that feeling that all the effort you've put in, is going to disappear, even if it's a game in EA. I mean, i want to keep playing, but, if every couple of months there will be a wipe...whats the point to discover places, build your stuff, found and keep valuable resources, armor, weapons and more? Don't say me : "just for the feedback, is an EA game" NO. It isn't necessary to restart everything each 2 months to do a feedback and implement new things.

I'm ok with this first wipe, is necessary for the abuse on claiming land, and i will be ready to play when wipe arrives, but, i don't want to put my time and effort in this game, if every couple of months a wipe will happen.

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Posted (edited)

I think a lot of players more familiar with the term early access have played mmos for 10- 20 yrs or so and just have that common knowledge of these games possibly being wiped once or multiple times. It's just part of the process of fixing, tweaking, revising, or changing whatever needed to fit a broader audience for the final product. They do want to make the general population of the game happy, but you can't please everyone.

I get it. I am a taming snob. I have high level tames with rare and beautiful colors. I doubt I will find them again. I only tame what I like. You know how long it takes to find specifics? I even have 2 accounts I play on. I have 800hrs. People it's just a game. And yes I work like everyone else. 3rd shift at a chemical plant. yaay exciting

Edited by Eve BlackVeil

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2 hours ago, Eve BlackVeil said:

I have had enough. This thread is toxic and contagious. You are a perfect example of what happened at my job. Great f'ing story. Guy keeps peeing on the outside of the building to be a douche. He keeps being given papers to sign for write up but refuses to sign them because why??? There is NO SPECIFIC RULE IN THE HANDBOOK THAT HE IS NOT ALLOWED TO PEE OUTSIDE. He is no longer with the company for various reasons but there IS a rule now that states you are NOT allowed to f'ing pee outside. wtf.

You shouldn't have to get so intricately specific with every f'ing thing ffs. You are ridiculous. They set forth an umbrella comment for a reason. That is why it's there. So you know going in that ANYTHING can happen.

I'm stepping out of bounds for the moment for this thread. Out of my comfort zone. I'm not usually so harsh. I just can't stand the fact the people are so upset about this wipe. All I can factor in is that these are people that haven't experienced much loss or hardship in their lives so this IS their hardship. A game. No RL suffering. No RL picking themselves up from the ground up repeatedly so that in a game it's nothing. Have you seen death? Been homeless as a child? Been starving? Seen or experienced severe violence? Starved? Dealt with a permanent life altering illness? I'm a feminine female but sometimes you gotta suck it up and act like a man damnit! . Here is a box of tissues, dry your eyes.

 

My apologies for that but it's much needed. You guys need to put life into perspective. I have played just as much as you all. I even have 2 accounts. The Great Purge is needed.

 You may be surprised by how much of those hardships you’ve listed that I have actually been through and dealt with, not everyone has a candy coated life and it’s that reason alone those of us who are trying to get them to consider doing a hard save for our characters, tames is so important to us because we have struggled and we have fought to hold onto that which was important to us. 

  Now as far as this thread being toxic, I don’t agree with that at all, not one person here is bashing any individual to the point that it’s become a toxic matter. We are all giving our thoughts behind what we feel is right, if the wipe happens then it happens, if we lose everything and start over then we lose everything and start over. 

 Some of us accept that and some of us are offended by it due to the written policies stated by the developers when early access was released. 

  We all care about the game and all of want to continue playing, I don’t think you will find anyone in these forums who would say otherwise, this is a great community here and I can see it growing massively in scale but this is early access and without people pointing issues out, pointing bugs out, pointing glitches out then the game remains broken. Would you agree ?

Now I’m not trying to offend anyone or start a flame war, if I have offended anyone then here is my public announcement that I’m sorry. Now with that being said, hopefully you will continue to share your input without taking what is being said so personally.  

   As far as the person you mentioned pissing on the side of a building that he worked at, well he wasn’t brought up the same way I was and that might have something to do with it. 

  Momma always said life was like a box of chocolates, you never know what your about to take a bite of. or something like that.

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On 3/2/2019 at 1:41 AM, =MGC=Ranger said:

Im reading there is a server wipe, are they completely wiping the game? Like Im losing my land and 300 hours labor?

But you will look Fab in your new Hat.

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4 minutes ago, sand man said:

But you will look Fab in your new Hat.

Some part of me thinks people would be less upset if there WASN'T a hat.

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Just now, Archsenex said:

Some part of me thinks people would be less upset if there WASN'T a hat.

Lol

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I mean, think about it:

 

Scenario A:

We value your time.  We did not arrive at this decision lightly.  Please accept our condolences

Scenario B:

We value your time.... about one hat's worth.  That's the value of your time.

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Just play unofficial until after the wipe.  Or take a break.  That's what I am doing.  I'm actually having more fun on a 9x9 unofficial.  Less crowded. Mixed PVP/PVE.  More controlled.  Still got pve stuff and better rates

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21 minutes ago, Archsenex said:

Some part of me thinks people would be less upset if there WASN'T a hat.

Actually you know what, if it was a badass tamed unique animal...IM IN. GIMMIE. I will brush it and love it and hug it and squeeze it and tuck it in every night.

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14 hours ago, CazzT said:

I wonder what changed between 1999 and now then

WTF does this have to do with anything at all? I have been gaming since well before that (dial up days). As for my parents, well my father has been dead before the internet was invented and my mother's last PC was a commodore 64. Some of us are not millenials living in our parents basement. I bet my daughter is older than half the posters on this site.

 

If we knew there was a wipe coming, it would have been a different story. To the people saying "its EA, its expected", thats complete bull$$*(@. They didnt wipe Ark and its the same Dev so no, its not expected. As stated Ive played many EA, Alpha and Beta and never saw a wipe. I would be happier to lose my character stats and rank then the work put it to make a trading port at our island. 

I wont bother posting again since its pointless. Now what is to stop all of us who are pissed about losing our land from spamming every isle we can find with foundations? Yep, let the griefing begin.

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14 minutes ago, =MGC=Ranger said:

WTF does this have to do with anything at all? I have been gaming since well before that (dial up days). As for my parents, well my father has been dead before the internet was invented and my mother's last PC was a commodore 64. Some of us are not millenials living in our parents basement. I bet my daughter is older than half the posters on this site.

For Sooth!  Pray thee this generation dost not hardship know.  Why, whenst their age were I, struggles were true.  This, Electricity generation, having conveniences of Ether Lamps and Horseless conveyance has rendered unto a firmness of feebility!

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