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archaegeo

New Claim System - Griefers paradise?

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While i like the idea of the new system and will help test it out, I do worry that on launch post wipe you will have a ton of griefers just go out, drop a flag on an island, and set the whole island to company only.

Yes, they cant hold it due to needing upkeep, but for the first couple of days I could see it get very bad.

Second type of griefers will be those who go out and find an island with no claim yet, but some building on it, who then proceed to claim and wipe all buildings out of spite.

This sounds like a good system if used as intended, but it also sounds like it has HUGE griefing potential, and thats not counting those big companies that just dont want non-company members on their lands.

This is a step in the right direction, and this is EA and testing, but this REALLY sounds like griefers will just have a field day with it.

They wont care that they lose the island eventually due to upkeep cost or war, they just want the initial tears of all islands being claimed and set to no-build for outside company.

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Sadly one rarely goes wrong by having very low expectations of people's behavior. The good news is that the new mechanics should make this a short term only consideration, rather than a long term underlying issue, but I think your predictions have a strong chance of becoming reality. 

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Posted (edited)

What do you mean company only? There are no company flags anymore. There are absolutely 0 restrictions on building anywhere you want on any flag you want. Everyone else can place structures on any flag. As for the destruction of building by the settlement owner, it is probably time and amount bound. So you can’t just delete entire buildings and such. Check my thread with suggetions, I think you like my idea about the structures: 

 

Edited by Percieval
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Just now, Percieval said:

What do you mean company only? Everyone else can place structures on any flag. 

If someone places a claim on an island they can chose to prevent anyone building on it. The downside to that though is the full upkeep is paid by the company. But yes people can claim an island and make it company only.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, [GP] Guybrush Threepwood said:

If someone places a claim on an island they can chose to prevent anyone building on it. The downside to that though is the full upkeep is paid by the company. But yes people can claim an island and make it company only.

Oh weird. It’s not under claimed flags, settlements and building restrictions in the captains log. Maybe they should add it since this is the first time I heard it. Also because Jat said all flags are neutral. Atleast in the first half of the stream, maybe he followed up on it later. 

Edited by Percieval
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17 minutes ago, Percieval said:

What do you mean company only? There are no company flags anymore. There are absolutely 0 restrictions on building anywhere you want on any flag you want. Everyone else can place structures on any flag. As for the destruction of building by the settlement owner, it is probably time and amount bound. So you can’t just delete entire buildings and such. Check my thread with suggetions, I think you like my idea about the structures: 

 

Jat said in the stream that claim owner can prevent building on the claim if they want, with the drawback that they have to pay the full upkeep.

Also said that the claim owner can destroy anything he wants anytime on the claim.

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1 minute ago, archaegeo said:

Jat said in the stream that claim owner can prevent building on the claim if they want, with the drawback that they have to pay the full upkeep.

Also said that the claim owner can destroy anything he wants anytime on the claim.

For your last paragraph, I have a solution. But the first one I do not. So yes, if that is the case it will be messed up in the beginning, but if someone wants an island for his own that is fine. If you’re strong enough, you will survive. If you’re not.. well then you’re screwed the next raid time. 

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Thats not the issue @Percieval

The issue is a griefer will take the island just to prevent others building on it and build nothing on it himself day one just for salty tears.

Thankfully you have to build a tax building to build a claim, and it takes 1 hour to effect the claim, but i still see it happening.

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Yes. I’m not sure by what time you have the tax bank running, We’ll see what happens. 

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You guys are talking strictly PvP, right?  Because global Lawless on PvE presents whole different issues with building and resource griefing.

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52 minutes ago, archaegeo said:

Thats not the issue @Percieval

The issue is a griefer will take the island just to prevent others building on it and build nothing on it himself day one just for salty tears.

Thankfully you have to build a tax building to build a claim, and it takes 1 hour to effect the claim, but i still see it happening.

But surely a briefer taking an island like that will lose it forcefully if they’re not willing to put in the effort to defend it.

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3 hours ago, archaegeo said:

While i like the idea of the new system and will help test it out, I do worry that on launch post wipe you will have a ton of griefers just go out, drop a flag on an island, and set the whole island to company only.

Yes, they cant hold it due to needing upkeep, but for the first couple of days I could see it get very bad.

Second type of griefers will be those who go out and find an island with no claim yet, but some building on it, who then proceed to claim and wipe all buildings out of spite.

This sounds like a good system if used as intended, but it also sounds like it has HUGE griefing potential, and thats not counting those big companies that just dont want non-company members on their lands.

This is a step in the right direction, and this is EA and testing, but this REALLY sounds like griefers will just have a field day with it.

They wont care that they lose the island eventually due to upkeep cost or war, they just want the initial tears of all islands being claimed and set to no-build for outside company.

Griefing? Oh I see you mean players engaging in PVP on a PVP server? Yes agreed they shouldn't be allowed to do that its quite outrageous.

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3 minutes ago, Bullet Force said:

Griefing? Oh I see you mean players engaging in PVP on a PVP server? Yes agreed they shouldn't be allowed to do that its quite outrageous.

Taking an island on day one just to prevent others building on it is not PvP.  Its griefing.

Taking an island others are building on, then running around destroying everything on it, even though you do not intend to hold or use the island is not PvP, its griefing.

2 hours ago, TerrorTrooper said:

But surely a briefer taking an island like that will lose it forcefully if they’re not willing to put in the effort to defend it.

They dont care if they lose it due to upkeep or someone taking it, they just want to cause havok on day one when people are just looking to play.

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4 hours ago, Percieval said:

Oh weird. It’s not under claimed flags, settlements and building restrictions in the captains log. Maybe they should add it since this is the first time I heard it. Also because Jat said all flags are neutral. Atleast in the first half of the stream, maybe he followed up on it later. 

I've just rewatched that part of the stream it's around 34:00 in the stream. I think what they say is, rather than settlement owners blocking people from building, it's more that if people build and they want to get rid of people from the island then the settlement owner will end up having a more expensive upkeep as they have to pay it themselves. I don't think there's a way to actually prevent players building.

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Also, a bank is required to be built first. You wont be able to just drop a flag and move on. While this isnt the hardest feat, it requires a minimum of like 11 levels and a decent amount of materials in total

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, [GP] Guybrush Threepwood said:

I've just rewatched that part of the stream it's around 34:00 in the stream. I think what they say is, rather than settlement owners blocking people from building, it's more that if people build and they want to get rid of people from the island then the settlement owner will end up having a more expensive upkeep as they have to pay it themselves. I don't think there's a way to actually prevent players building.

I’ll ask for some clearance about this since it is not pointed out in the captains log. All I could remember is them saying all flags are neutral. 

Edited by Percieval
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3 hours ago, [GP] Guybrush Threepwood said:

I've just rewatched that part of the stream it's around 34:00 in the stream. I think what they say is, rather than settlement owners blocking people from building, it's more that if people build and they want to get rid of people from the island then the settlement owner will end up having a more expensive upkeep as they have to pay it themselves. I don't think there's a way to actually prevent players building.

Jat confirmed it, all flags are neutral. Everyone can build on it. 

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Just now, [GP] Guybrush Threepwood said:

Did you bother reading what I said?

Read what I said first. Since there are more people with the same thoughts, I asked for clearance. 

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Just now, Percieval said:

Read what I said first. Since there are more people with the same thoughts, I asked for clearance. 

I did read what you said first, i'm not talking about claims being neutral, i'm talking about people not wanting you to build on their island.

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1.   It sounded a lot like the island has to be completely clear of contestors in order to claim the island.

That will take a significant amount of co-ordination and is very easily countered. (I am hoping that this is not how it will in fact work and there will be a "contest point" for the island control, this would also help you maintain control of the island by focusing your fortifications in one area)

2.   You will need a bank built there in order to place a claim flag on the island.

You cant just catch the wind to the first island you find and drop a flag.

3.   Upkeep is intended to stop your scenario.

Your upkeep costs will be too significant to maintain without assistance of inhabitants, or a significant population in your company all grinding towards the upkeep.

Furthermore, increased variety of companies on the settlement will lower the upkeep cost of the flag so they are intending to encourage Governors to maintain and encourage a population to grow on their island.

 

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4 minutes ago, [GP] Guybrush Threepwood said:

I did read what you said first, i'm not talking about claims being neutral, i'm talking about people not wanting you to build on their island.

Then there’s a misunderstanding. OP said islands can be company only. Then I said no, you said company only. I said I couldn’t find it. So I was thinking it was still about that, that’s why I asked for clearance. But if you were talking about the settlement owner being able to destroy anything, I’m not too worried about that since the enormous hate it gets already so it will probably be patched at some point along the way. 

 

My idea was to have the SO only being able to destroy like 5 building structures every x amount of hours. This makes sure the loot of the people on your island is safe and it only would make sense to delete standalone structures. But then we’ll still have the whole defend structure thing etc but that’s a different story. 

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4 minutes ago, MisterMyztik said:

1.   It sounded a lot like the island has to be completely clear of contestors in order to claim the island.

That will take a significant amount of co-ordination and is very easily countered. (I am hoping that this is not how it will in fact work and there will be a "contest point" for the island control, this would also help you maintain control of the island by focusing your fortifications in one area)

2.   You will need a bank built there in order to place a claim flag on the island.

You cant just catch the wind to the first island you find and drop a flag.

3.   Upkeep is intended to stop your scenario.

Your upkeep costs will be too significant to maintain without assistance of inhabitants, or a significant population in your company all grinding towards the upkeep.

Furthermore, increased variety of companies on the settlement will lower the upkeep cost of the flag so they are intending to encourage Governors to maintain and encourage a population to grow on their island.

If it works as you describe above, this sounds workable, I guess we will see. Sound interesting to me, although I'm not a PvP player.

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