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Seren Du

Game Wipe and PVE

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And I'd like to add that it seems the Devs want feedback from their player base, but aren't really listening to what we have to say. I don't remember reading a whole lot of people saying they didn't want a claim system at all in PvE. Only that it should be limited to so many flags per company. And they aren't listening!!!

Its like the Devs live in a world of total unreality where they honestly believe huge tribes/companies will play nice with smaller ones, or that an 'upkeep box' to auto-repair a company's structures will prevent griefing by making the cost to maintain it all 'harder'. Not for large companies, it won't. They have the manpower and resources to do it. 

So while you can say its players who are doing the griefing, its the DEVS who are making it possible by not listening to the people who actually play the game daily and have to deal with the griefing!

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1 hour ago, Sansa Phoenix said:

And I'd like to add that it seems the Devs want feedback from their player base, but aren't really listening to what we have to say. I don't remember reading a whole lot of people saying they didn't want a claim system at all in PvE. Only that it should be limited to so many flags per company. And they aren't listening!!!

Its like the Devs live in a world of total unreality where they honestly believe huge tribes/companies will play nice with smaller ones, or that an 'upkeep box' to auto-repair a company's structures will prevent griefing by making the cost to maintain it all 'harder'. Not for large companies, it won't. They have the manpower and resources to do it. 

So while you can say its players who are doing the griefing, its the DEVS who are making it possible by not listening to the people who actually play the game daily and have to deal with the griefing!

True, but you're not thinking about it. people are looking at short term and not long term, befoer saying, "They're not listening" think about what was said in more detail and why is was done, not sayin this is for everything, because there have been moments that made no sense.

someone point it out already, on PVE,  a claim flag makes no sense. Without a flag, means you don't have to worry about someone stealing your land if you're offline, makes sure you have enough resources and you can go away for a few day or a weeks, also

With the previous system it was a set timer, meaning griefers could hide behind the 2 weeks on it after sealing a plot, now, if they really want to keep your land, well they can't because you can't steal it, they would have to wait till your stuff has decade 

On top of that, it seems they are taking precautions to prevent pillar or foundations spam, will it work?, no idea, have to wait an see.

Players really need to sit back, take on board what is said first before running to the forums, also this is the point of EA. They will try things, if they don't work, they will try something else, also they don't have to do everything the player say, most of the time players just look at the surface and base what they see on emotion and like i said think short term not long term.

 

Imho i see no reason for flags in PvE

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Just now, Herasea said:

True, but you're not thinking about it. people are looking at short term and not long term, befoer saying, "They're not listening" think about what was said in more detail and why is was done, not sayin this is for everything, because there have been moments that made no sense.

someone point it out already, on PVE,  a claim flag makes no sense. Without a flag, means you don't have to worry about someone stealing your land if you're offline, makes sure you have enough resources and you can go away for a few day or a weeks, also

With the previous system it was a set timer, meaning griefers could hide behind the 2 weeks on it after sealing a plot, now, if they really want to keep your land, well they can't because you can't steal it, they would have to wait till your stuff has decade 

On top of that, it seems they are taking precautions to prevent pillar or foundations spam, will it work?, no idea, have to wait an see.

Players really need to sit back, take on board what is said first before running to the forums, also this is the point of EA. They will try things, if they don't work, they will try something else, also they don't have to do everything the player say, most of the time players just look at the surface and base what they see on emotion and like i said think short term not long term.

 

Imho i see no reason for flags in PvE

Oh sure they CAN steal your land. Have you never played PvE in Ark? Let me enlighten you.

If i want your land, all I'll have to do is build a huge box around your entire base, then set up an auto-repair to keep it going until you are forced to abondon your base because you no longer have any access to it. Then I just wait for it to auto demo and take over that spot of land. Easy. 

That. Easy. 

yes. We DO need a claim system in PvE. 

And besides stealing/forcing you out of your land, there is the blocking of resources by assholes who want to either 1... take over a very large area and therefore block any resources everyone else needs to maintain/build with forcing them out, or 2.... just to be a troll. And upkeep or no, this WILL happen. Don't be delusional.

Oh and lets not forget that they can also gate in your ships so that you can't even use your ships, forcing you to abondon them because you can't even move them anymore. 

There are companies in Atlas large enough that upkeep on the means to grief/force you out is NOT a problem. 

WE ABSOLUTELY NEED CLAIMS IN PVE!!!

No one can do any of this to you if they CAN'T BUILD IN YOUR CLAIM. 

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You know.... everyone needs to understand that today's society isn't worthy of the positive outlook some seem to have regarding other people's behavior. Society has, to a large extent, become little more than sociopaths: They like you only when you suit their purpose, and you're shit under their heels and completely exploitable otherwise. Yes. There are still good people out there, but not as many as you want to believe.

Too many people in this world are shitty. They are so damn greedy they would likely shit on their own mother if it meant they gained what they wanted. They want what they want to the exclusion of anyone or anything else, including the rights or feelings of others, irregardless of morals or ethics, in a game or in real life.

If any of you don't like what I've stated above, too bad. Its a very sad world that we all now live in that people have become so FAKE that the truth actually offends everyone.

I have never been a griefer, and very rarely have I EVER sought to 'get rid of someone' on a game. The ones I've wanted rid of are the people who have absolutely NO respect for anyone or anything else. Griefers. Spammers. Racists. Toxic people. And I can count the number of people like this I've actually 'got rid of' on one hand, NOT using all my fingers. A grand total of 2, inside three years on Ark. None so far on Atlas. 

For the Devs to honestly think the majority of people will play so nice with each other is delusional. I get they WANT it to be that way, and I think it SHOULD be that way, but alas.... That is NOT realistic of our society.

Keeping claim flags in PvE, but hard limiting them to so many per company, is the ONLY way to stave off the griefing and passive-aggressive bullshit we're facing without them. Its the only way to curb the multitude of people out there who will NEVER play nice with others, because the gods above know the Devs won't bother taking any action to free your gated in ships, nor will they come take down the box that someone has erected around your base to force you out. 

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28 minutes ago, Herasea said:

True, but you're not thinking about it. people are looking at short term and not long term, befoer saying, "They're not listening" think about what was said in more detail and why is was done, not sayin this is for everything, because there have been moments that made no sense.

someone point it out already, on PVE,  a claim flag makes no sense. Without a flag, means you don't have to worry about someone stealing your land if you're offline, makes sure you have enough resources and you can go away for a few day or a weeks, also

With the previous system it was a set timer, meaning griefers could hide behind the 2 weeks on it after sealing a plot, now, if they really want to keep your land, well they can't because you can't steal it, they would have to wait till your stuff has decade 

On top of that, it seems they are taking precautions to prevent pillar or foundations spam, will it work?, no idea, have to wait an see.

Players really need to sit back, take on board what is said first before running to the forums, also this is the point of EA. They will try things, if they don't work, they will try something else, also they don't have to do everything the player say, most of the time players just look at the surface and base what they see on emotion and like i said think short term not long term.

 

Imho i see no reason for flags in PvE

I can only assume you didn't put many hours into Ark PVE on official at least when there was land to be grabbed. Sansa Phoenix nailed it, if I want your land I will box you in, foundation spam your resources, places pillars in the sea just outside your dock and watch your ships go no where and I can assure you there is NOTHING you can do about it. The Devs have made it pretty clear that punishing griefing isn't a priority right now and using Ark as a template of what to expect, it will likely never be. 

People think it is bad right now but imagine the levels of griefing we can expect when you can build on anyones doorstep.

The claim system makes 90% of that impossible.

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6 minutes ago, Herasea said:

Imho i see no reason for flags in PvE

That may be your opinion, but please see also the other side:

There are so many people like me, my company and our neighbors, who going through all those questionable decisions made by the devs, and finally, the game is playable without permanently enraging because of griefers. And in the past it was so annoying to defend our land, but we managed that and could build the base of our dreams (as a small company, in PVE there's not much left than building, exploring and taming, and there are people who enjoying this a lot, so please accept their playstyle).

And then some new players come and cry "Buhuhu, there is no land left to build" - although there is plenty of space left - and then the people who went through thick and thin with this game will be punished with loosing everything. And get a hat in exchange. A hat for 500 hours playtime, and around a half of it wasn't fun at all.

New Players don't want to pay taxes? That's okay, then please live on a Lawless Island, that's why they are there. First come, first serve (but remember, not everyone set his taxes to 30%). I personally don't even notice taxes while farming, and with the 2x to 6x rates - come on, that shouldn't be a problem for anyone. 

I can say anything to the PVP-changes, but for PVE my solution would look like:

#1: Active ingame admins with fast support (like all MMOs have it) to discourage griefers
#2: Implement a limitation for claim flags (maybe one flag per 5 members) and, of course, limit company size
#3: Give the players time to declaim their land.
#4: New islands will be implemented - together with the fresh declaimed land, there is now plenty of free space
#5: BUGFIXING, balancing, removing behemoth gates *cough*
#6: Implementing new content and instancing (is that the right word in english?) dungeons for caves and bosses, so everyone can experience everything in this game.

I simply can't see why a wipe should solve anything of the problems that ATLAS have, especially in PVE you don't have any advantage with a base or ships over a new player.

The only thing they will get with a wipe on PVE is Sodom & Gomorrah, because everyone will build on the most beautiful places with fresh water, much ressources - and if they don't get what they want, they will find a way without the claiming flags, be sure about that.


 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, Sansa Phoenix said:

Oh sure they CAN steal your land. Have you never played PvE in Ark? Let me enlighten you.

If i want your land, all I'll have to do is build a huge box around your entire base, then set up an auto-repair to keep it going until you are forced to abondon your base because you no longer have any access to it. Then I just wait for it to auto demo and take over that spot of land. Easy. 

That. Easy. 

yes. We DO need a claim system in PvE. 

And besides stealing/forcing you out of your land, there is the blocking of resources by assholes who want to either 1... take over a very large area and therefore block any resources everyone else needs to maintain/build with forcing them out, or 2.... just to be a troll. And upkeep or no, this WILL happen. Don't be delusional.

Oh and lets not forget that they can also gate in your ships so that you can't even use your ships, forcing you to abondon them because you can't even move them anymore. 

There are companies in Atlas large enough that upkeep on the means to grief/force you out is NOT a problem. 

WE ABSOLUTELY NEED CLAIMS IN PVE!!!

No one can do any of this to you if they CAN'T BUILD IN YOUR CLAIM. 

Ya, the only way you could stop the griefer though was to act like a griefer and claim way more land than you possibly needed. You need to claim any land that could be used to block access and then also all the land where there are resources you need.

My solution to this is to play on a private server where an admin can remove the gates or just remove the griefer.

For officials, maybe the decay time on structures not protected by the repair structure will be so fast that a griefer just won't be able to keep up. 

Edited by wildbill

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I think for solo griefers, or those who are in small companies, sure. But for anyone part of a large enough company, I think we're in trouble.

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13 minutes ago, LoneXS said:

I can only assume you didn't put many hours into Ark PVE on official at least when there was land to be grabbed. Sansa Phoenix nailed it, if I want your land I will box you in, foundation spam your resources, places pillars in the sea just outside your dock and watch your ships go no where and I can assure you there is NOTHING you can do about it. The Devs have made it pretty clear that punishing griefing isn't a priority right now and using Ark as a template of what to expect, it will likely never be. 

People think it is bad right now but imagine the levels of griefing we can expect when you can build on anyones doorstep.

The claim system makes 90% of that impossible.

I agree.  I think it's remarkable the devs haven't addressed these concerns at all as far as I know.  They are extremely obvious.

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9 minutes ago, wildbill said:

My solution to this is to play on a private server where an admin can remove the gates or just remove the griefer.

You know a private server with more than 9 grids? If yes, tell me more please 😆

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4 minutes ago, Sansa Phoenix said:

I think for solo griefers, or those who are in small companies, sure. But for anyone part of a large enough company, I think we're in trouble.

As part of the changes, Grapeshot Games has also said they will no longer tolerate griefers and explotes on their servers. If they can live up to this promise, then this can work even if a large company decides to start griefing everyone. They said, they will even ban a large company if needed.

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8 hours ago, Clochard said:

EARLY ACCESS. not intended to be a jump start on progression. We are all test subjects and should expect wipes, expect bugs, ect. however as an offset and under the guise of expecting more future wipes i think rates should be turned up so ppl can rebuild after faster.

 

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Just now, Tinschn said:

You know a private server with more than 9 grids? If yes, tell me more please 😆

Yes, I know of several that have more than 9 grids. One that has 49 (if I recall correctly).

 

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21 minutes ago, Sansa Phoenix said:

Keeping claim flags in PvE, but hard limiting them to so many per company, is the ONLY way to stave off the griefing and passive-aggressive bullshit we're facing without them. Its the only way to curb the multitude of people out there who will NEVER play nice with others, because the gods above know the Devs won't bother taking any action to free your gated in ships, nor will they come take down the box that someone has erected around your base to force you out. 

You're right.  The devs have explicitly stated somewhere that they have zero intention of addressing individual claims and issues.  Instead their focus will be on addressing the issues globally, but you'll have to live with your losses whilst they do this.  I don't expect the game to be individually adminned for at least 2 years, probably longer.

 

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2 minutes ago, wildbill said:

As part of the changes, Grapeshot Games has also said they will no longer tolerate griefers and explotes on their servers. If they can live up to this promise, then this can work even if a large company decides to start griefing everyone. They said, they will even ban a large company if needed.

IF they actually do this, fine. But they sure never helped anyone being griefed in PvE Ark. So I'm not holding my breath they will now

 

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1 minute ago, Raine said:

You're right.  The devs have explicitly stated somewhere that they have zero intention of addressing individual claims and issues.  Instead their focus will be on addressing the issues globally, but you'll have to live with your losses whilst they do this.  I don't expect the game to be individually adminned for at least 2 years, probably longer.

 

Where are you getting this from?

The said this in Captain's log 22:

Quote

Furthermore, we’ve been a little more soft in some cases when it came to players taking advantage of these game exploits. After the first wipe has taken place in March, that will no longer be the case. We will still prioritize fixing issues/bugs/exploits, so we encourage you to work with us when you’ve discovered something that could be exploitable. That is our mandate, fixing and resolving game problems, however we’ll be taking a more firm stance against the serious cases where a company has used an exploit without coming forward which could result in company-wide and or alliance-wide punishments. 

 

2 minutes ago, Sansa Phoenix said:

IF they actually do this, fine. But they sure never helped anyone being griefed in PvE Ark. So I'm not holding my breath they will now

 

I would hope that they now realize, you can't run an MMO the same as ARK. I think they are new at the MMO thing, they are having to learn the hard way. Now if they don't do what they say, the result will be a declining server population on the officials.

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5 minutes ago, wildbill said:

Where are you getting this from?

The said this in Captain's log 22:

 

I know what they said. EXPLOITS. Nothing about griefing by other players, only exploits: using a loophole in coding of game mechanics to their advantage. walling someone out of their base or walling in their ships so they are forced to abondon them isn't an exploit. its simple griefing, which the lack of PvE claiming will allow. And herein lies the problem. THIS kind of thing they aren't going to help with. 

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10 minutes ago, wildbill said:

Yes, I know of several that have more than 9 grids. One that has 49 (if I recall correctly).

 

Sorry, I wasn't clear - i mean a 9x9 grid server.
 

3 minutes ago, bigfishrob said:

EARLY ACCESS. not intended to be a jump start on progression. We are all test subjects and should expect wipes, expect bugs, ect. however as an offset and under the guise of expecting more future wipes i think rates should be turned up so ppl can rebuild after faster.

Yeah, you may have to expect wipes, but in this case only because of some devs who want to have feedback, ignore it and geting things in a complete mess after so much time.
They had more than enough time to change the game in the way the players want it to play. There are enough feedback threads in this forum.

Now dropping a nuclear bomb is simply not right and not necessary, especially if so many players - who obviously playing the game more than the devs do - disagree with those changes.

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15 minutes ago, wildbill said:

Where are you getting this from?

The said this in Captain's log 22:

 

I would hope that they now realize, you can't run an MMO the same as ARK. I think they are new at the MMO thing, they are having to learn the hard way. Now if they don't do what they say, the result will be a declining server population on the officials.

Well, Bill, in the Support Tab under Tickets, there's this:

"Please note that during Early Access, we are providing limited in-game support and utilizing this ticketing system as a way to identify game issues and trends for problems we need to address and fix with our technical/development resources. At this phase in our development cycle, we will not be providing restoration for items, creatures, ships or other in-game assets.

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We built in a lawless region. A11 to be exact, on New Atoll. On the south/southeast side. We LOVE our base, and our location. We spammed only the area in which we lived, ONLY so no one could crowd us out, but not enough to prevent anyone else from finding a spot. We had no problems other than with some chinese group who pillared most of the rest of the island, and we're so damn thankful it didn't block resource spawns! 

My point is, building in lawless was fine. yeah, it sucked that you couldn't leave your base for longer than 3 and a half days before you had to go back to reset the timer on things, but we dealt with it because we loved our location. 

We have decided that we will go back to a11 after the wipe/mega update and see if our spot is still there/the same and we'll build there again if it is. I spent 45 minutes last night taking pictures of our entire base/docks/ships. Hopefully we can rebuild it exactly. Maybe even better. 

This is going to be a land rush, all over again. I just hope we can find our spot or find A spot quickly before its all grabbed up by large companies or griefers.

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12 minutes ago, Sansa Phoenix said:

We built in a lawless region. A11 to be exact, on New Atoll. On the south/southeast side. We LOVE our base, and our location. We spammed only the area in which we lived, ONLY so no one could crowd us out, but not enough to prevent anyone else from finding a spot. We had no problems other than with some chinese group who pillared most of the rest of the island, and we're so damn thankful it didn't block resource spawns! 

My point is, building in lawless was fine. yeah, it sucked that you couldn't leave your base for longer than 3 and a half days before you had to go back to reset the timer on things, but we dealt with it because we loved our location. 

We have decided that we will go back to a11 after the wipe/mega update and see if our spot is still there/the same and we'll build there again if it is. I spent 45 minutes last night taking pictures of our entire base/docks/ships. Hopefully we can rebuild it exactly. Maybe even better. 

This is going to be a land rush, all over again. I just hope we can find our spot or find A spot quickly before its all grabbed up by large companies or griefers.

Even if they set every server to Home Servers - the lag will be real again 😞
Hope everything will work out for you.

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21 hours ago, Seren Du said:

New system is not going to stop foundation spam, if anything it may make it worse.

 

If i get ti right all you need to do is link spam foundations and add a resource box in whatever the proximity is and then keep spamming.

 

Large builds will be a thing of the past especially for smaller companies. Its going to kill PVE from what i get from the stream so far. Why would anyone want to start over?

 

this should have happened at least a month ago. 

It doesnt work that way its still going to be tested its not even on the test server for us to see if it will even be workable. 

 

41 minutes ago, Raine said:

Well, Bill, in the Support Tab under Tickets, there's this:

"Please note that during Early Access, we are providing limited in-game support and utilizing this ticketing system as a way to identify game issues and trends for problems we need to address and fix with our technical/development resources. At this phase in our development cycle, we will not be providing restoration for items, creatures, ships or other in-game assets.

Did you watch the video they posted no>? You havent go watch it and listen turn up the volume...seriously you guys come on 

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Yep, watched it twice.  I'll always believe the printed word over what they say in an impromptu live stream.  Having done impromptu live videos myself, I know how that goes.  The proof, as always Luxfere my friend, will be in the pudding.  And that pudding hasn't congealed yet.

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17 hours ago, Raine said:

Taken directly off the video, this shows you there is a PvE mode other than Lawless.  The only distinction seems to be an auto-repair facility in the non-lawless version.  I could envision it working something like a Ship's Resource Box for your structures, and it may have limited range.  I'm just guessing here.  But if that's the case then it still won't prevent the spamming-for-resource griefing which could occur.

Then again, this is beta so in Grapeshot's eyes, maybe those set on griefing are doing them more service than decent players will.

PVE and Lawless.JPG

yea its beta its not set in stone thats how you test and qa a game welcome to software dev 101 

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Indeed.  Been involved in working with the mod Atlas is majorly based upon, and it's still in the beta stage as well.  So I'm familiar with wipes, map changes, reconstructive changes of all types, but there has been far less griefing than you see in Atlas.  In all fairness, Atlas is several orders of magnitude larger than its related kernel mod so the problems themselves are several orders of magnitude larger.  No wonder Grapeshot is hiring as many more devs as it can.  

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