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LongDongSilver

Heavy cannon meta killing the naval fun?

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As post says, my personal feelings, and  I could be wrong as  a whole  here but most people  ive  spoken  with agree, the  current meta  of stacking  high damage %  BP heavy cannons   on a ship mainly  front and back  is killing  the fun in the naval fights  for  me,  when I  saw ATLAS I hope for some  real  naval broadside  to  broadside action, people  committing to  fights and  may  the  best man win style, but  what we  have  ended  up with  seems  to  be  completely  different.  Most  people  are stacking heavys front  and  back (sometimes  side  too) the  idea being rear heavys  allow you perfect ability to  fight  but  also  disengage at  will, and  front  heavys great for  chasing down  and  breaking  sails,  as  good as  that setup  is  what  im finding is  this,  you  engage for a battle, both  ships  are the same setup, what  then happens  is both  ships spend  45mins sailing towards eachother then turning to allow the large amount of rear cannons to fire and never actually getting anywhere, or 1 ship wants to engage and the other will just kite forever with the rear battery. I personally would like to see heavy cannons removed from boats, or restricted to galleon size only, or at very least a much bigger penalty for having them mounted on a smaller ship, much higher weight when mounted on a ship increasing the smaller the ship is would work good.

How does everyone else feel about the current meta for naval battles?

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The real issue is simply that there are only 3 boats to choose from when it comes to naval battles - schooner, brig or galleon. In addition there is only have 2 types of cannon to pick from and the end result is a pretty boring and limited naval game. Can you imagine playing Eve or some other ship game with just 3 ships and people not finding it slightly dull?

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Front and back is certainly the meta for single ships. When it comes to fleet combat, however,  you'll find great success in having a mix of designs. 

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Once they will solve the offline raid meta, I hope they will make boarding the ship viable again (limiting in some way the NPC swivel)

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They really need to implement some physics restrictions on ship design. some of the builds i've seen, while impressive . . . would never actually float, let alone sail around. I wouldn't want to limit the design options . . . . but loading 20 large cannons on the back of a schooner, not good. 

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2 minutes ago, BurgsideTiger said:

They really need to implement some physics restrictions on ship design. some of the builds i've seen, while impressive . . . would never actually float, let alone sail around. I wouldn't want to limit the design options . . . . but loading 20 large cannons on the back of a schooner, not good. 

it is getting really stupid lol!  

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/544294674664521778/547855688710225950/unknown.png   

 

but i think anew meta soon will come though.. last night we where on the way to help some allies with 1 galleon 2 brigs and 2 schooners when this enemy brig shows up... it must have had good sails cus we had journeyman sails with decent speed % and catched up to us easy.. he then just stayed on the side at a angle so our large cannons couldnt connect.. when he got up tp us they used medium cannon to fire explosive barrels over and flamed our boat so every1 died with swivvels… that one brig got every ship exept the galleon and 1 brig which had to flee like chickens xD at the beggining i was mad but afterwards kinda impressed

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lol, that picture bro!! I would almost love to see a meta similar to how Empyrion (Spelling im sure) handles the building aspect of their ships (space ships, but still). They will pretty much let you add and build however you want . . . but get too crazy with it and you end up with a ship that is very slow, or has horrid turning, etc. Having pluses and minuses to ship builds other than damage output would change everything.

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10 hours ago, Enki Anunnaki said:

i think there should be a cap for heavies on the top side. force people to use gun ports.

An easier solution would be to simply increase the build zone box size of the cannons so you can't place them close together. 

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I love brigs that load up on  front and back large cannons on the top deck, flame schooners favourite meal

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On 2/23/2019 at 1:03 AM, Bullet Force said:

An easier solution would be to simply increase the build zone box size of the cannons so you can't place them close together. 

This would lead to issues with building in general.  It would be the "easier" solution, but it would create more problems than it would solve.

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With the rebalance to large cannons, it's actually a pretty tough choice for me now. 

Large cannons still seem strong, but I think because of faster reload ,ship cannon will probably do more destruction to enemy ships now. 

Large cannons have a more concentrated damage, that will down planks faster, but I think ship cannons are going to cause more overall damage, the ship cannon barrages will probably be harder to recover your boat from overall. 

Large cannons= harder initial blast and further range

Ship cannons= faster damage and more versatile aim. 

If the large cannons can get hits on you and move away(gorilla warefare) the larges probably win

If it's a broadside to broadside trade until one ship is down, ship cannons probably win.

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The issue Mike, is that the large cannon kite meta means that to get a fight against such a player, you need to face tank a few volleys just to get close. Losing planks/sails in single volleys. That doesn't make for exciting pvp. 

 

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Could change it so that ships standard cant have many large cannons. So that instead of every boat stacking 'weight' they need to stack points into 'large cannons'. Would be a double hit to the large cannon meta making them deliberately slower. 

It's not like any of these boats ever put points in slower sinking/reduced crew costs or extra beds. (or very few to cover my butt against the most pedantic) 

 

Edited by ShoulderRabbit

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@BumbleBumble

Yeah, I get that already had a discussion over it on a different thread.

Only a few rear large cannons, makes a light ship, that's hard to catch and can keep throwing large cannon volleys at your fully cannoned war ship. 

Real problem is, how do you beat a schooner that only has flame swivels on the front, it's faster than both ship designs and once it's on the side of a booty build ship, bye bye ship is what it means from what I've seen/ done. 

If you cant board flame swivel schooner fast enough and kill npcs/players off those swivels, it will make all stations on the deck un-manable, and will damage your sails instantly so you cant get away. 

It's not all terrible, they just might need a little more balancing. 

All in all, these different ship designs are good for different purposes. 

Full cannon ship is good against smaller ships and is usually the only thing that can knock out enough planks to cause the ship to sink without time to repair. 

Also as range goes down weapon dps/effectiveness goes up. 

Swivels do most damage but have least range, ship cannons have middle range and are higher dps than large, and larges have the range!

Although watching a stream last night, the large cannon builds are still planking ships from max distance, it's still the most overpowered strat probably. 

Maybe double the weight of large cannons? And increase weight of ship cannons by a bit too like 1.5x 

That would make it so that gunports have a bigger advantage with weight reduction and make the one shot builds harder to maneuver.

Edited by Mike L

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@Mike L 

I haven't been in the situation where one has caught up with me without having most of the planks and/or sails removed. And when they have, swivels have finished them off. So I'm unable to really discuss that with you. 
The base 5k panels drop too quickly currently, and not many people are willing to put bp's on schooners. (That I've play with/against)

Edited by BumbleBumble

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The problem is that they allow the large cannons to have longer range.  This should not be the case.  It should be what you use when the ships get in close.  The only advantage that the smaller cannons have is the ability to swivel a bit.  It needs to have the longer range, if you want people to use them.

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Adjust projectile speed of both cannons for example cannon balls can reach their max range over the same period of time. Increasing ship cannon project speed would make it easier to hit moving targets (ships) decreasing projectile speed of large cannons allows them to retain their defining characteristics of range and damage while making them slightly harder to land shots on moving targets.

thoughts ?

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i love the versitility in ship design.

However the utter blindness to the most basic of physics is a bit daft.

Around the midpoint of the ships skeleton, simply add some maths that says if you put too much weight fore, aft, port or starboard the ship will lean that way.

So you want 32 cannons on the back of the ship fine...but yer boat is gunna be bum down and nose up..should take on water during a storm etc.

Allow some flex, 3-500 pounds of gun weight before any impact on tilt...

Or some such constraint. 

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I personally think cannons should only be where you can put gunports, and I think they need a special ballista bolt that lets you 'grapple' a boat.

I also think that at sea, not anchor'ed, the claim timer on all boats should be fairly short. I would like to see folks trying to board a boat to take it over and claim it for their own. Currently the game has no boarding, its just sink and go back later to salvage. 

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I have not played ship to ship (PvE only - SOTD)  I was wondering about swivel canons and boarding.  Should maybe the swivel canons damage your own ship?  That way they could be used to fight off a boarding party, but they are going to damage your own ship at the same time?

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On 2/22/2019 at 6:14 PM, Alias said:

Once they will solve the offline raid meta, I hope they will make boarding the ship viable again

 

3 hours ago, galium said:

I also think that at sea, not anchor'ed, the claim timer on all boats should be fairly short. I would like to see folks trying to board a boat to take it over and claim it for their own. Currently the game has no boarding, its just sink and go back later to salvage

I thought about boarding today and formulated my idea.


The sad truth is that suggestions go down in all the toxic posts that came up lately 😛

to the OP:
I would love more different ship types. Personaly I don't like any meta. but thats a different Story

Edited by Kappinski

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I wholeheartedly agree on this topic.

No one uses medium cannons anymore in PVP, and it feels like ppl load more and more large cannons on their ships, no matter what side of it. This makes most of the designs pure 1v1 with no real purpose for longer battles with more than two ships, which should be but encouraged imo.
I miss that there is no use for bar shots and stuff since you usually don't even get close enough to the enemy ships to use them. 

Personally I dislike solutions like penalties, limits or nerfs, for me they counter the idea of survival (in survival one should think about what he does, not simply stick to given limits), so I'd suggest to simply make large cannons heavier so you can't use them in the way it is atm. Doubling their weight means to half their numbers and make the builder think about how many of them he can install without slowing the ship down too much, while he must compensate the loss in firepower by adding medium cannons.
Atm there are designs out there with like 24 large cannons to one side, making them dangerous onehitters, but also look ugly and heavily unrealistic, and they prevent more realistic seafights, since the best side for such ships to shoot from is their broadside, especially when fighting in groups.

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1 hour ago, Malakai030 said:

No one uses medium cannons anymore in PVP, and it feels like ppl load more and more large cannons on their ships, no matter what side of it. This makes most of the designs pure 1v1 with no real purpose for longer battles with more than two ships, which should be but encouraged imo.

1

Do you say no one is using them? yesterday I met an enterprising young lady, that made the most curious boat designs in PvP official I have seen so far.  So far I have seen two of her ships, both  Brigantines,  with very interesting turtle designs (5 layers, 6 layers in some places) she managed to even partly shield the lower back and part of the front, something I have not seen anyone before,  do as of yet.

She told me, that her design, plus a mixed-use of Swivels, Medium, and Large cannons, allows her to take on 2-3 enemy ships at the same time AND WIN. I did not believe it, she invited me to board the ship and go for some hunting. In no less than 3 hours, she indeed managed to sink 7 ships (5 brigs, two schooners) and was once in a 2v1 situation and won that fight relatively easy. Afterward, she needed to run into a freeport for repairs / new armor but, I must admit, she used both the strength as well weaknesses of Medium, Large and Swivels to her advantage on that ship.

Respect. it showed me that using only swivels or only large cannons, or even a mix without the medium cannons, is not a good idea.

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