So let’s talk about mythic bp’s and practical reality

[boomervoncannon 1,541]

So my company has started to acquire some mythic bp’s and I’m going to use a couple of specific examples here to illustrate a broader concern, but the underlying point will probably apply to a number of things. Here is what I’m seeing that gives me pause.  Keratenoid currently cannot be exchanged at commodity vendors so mythic bp’s that include keratenoid will require any player attempting to craft them to acquire meaningful quantities of all six keratenoid types without an exchange npc. This is significant because both plate armor which gives the highest physical protection and fur, 2nd highest and best cold insulation base values require keratenoid.  Basically the 2 armors you’re gonna use everywhere but the middle of the grid.

So a full set of mythic is going to require hundreds of each keratenoid to craft, and that’s before you do a single upgrade. I don’t think anyone will have a problem getting bone or scale in qty. Shell might be tedious farming turtles but it’s doable. I live in the tundra and chitin and carapace are essentially nonexistent there. I know you can get them from scorpions and giant ants in warmer climes but what I hear is the yield per kill is puny so they might be more tedious than turtles. I dunno you guys tell me. 

But that’s not what really concerns me. What really concerns me is residue. My understanding is presently you can only get it from jellyfish. Jellyfish aren’t exactly washing up dead onshore in droves the way manta do. Does anybody know anybody who has more than token amounts of residue? Am I missing something or does the present game state make certain mythics all but unobtainable until new sources of certain mats are added?

Hoping I’m just lacking info. If not this is something that needs to be looked at.

[gadefence 148]

You get like 60 kera from scorps and 20 from ants, you get like 1 shell from turtles. You might want to rethink which is worst.

You can also hope for the flying jellyfish bug from ark to appear.

I assume jumping in the water with wolves is a good way to get residue, however.

[Archsenex 309]

In practice, once we started focusing on killing scorps/spiders and ants, we found that it wasn't that bad.  Turtles still give too much leather despite being the only source of shell.

Scorps tend to spawn at reasonable numbers too.

[Nari 197]

5 minutes ago, gadefence said:

You get like 60 kera from scorps and 20 from ants, you get like 1 shell from turtles. You might want to rethink which is worst.

Not entirely accurate, I get at least 10 shells per turtle 

This is ridiculous... I've hoarded thousands upon thousands of bones and scales but only have a couple hundred shells and carapace stocked up. The ironic part is I actually go out of my way for the last two types.

[boomervoncannon 1,541]

3 minutes ago, gadefence said:

You get like 60 kera from scorps and 20 from ants, you get like 1 shell from turtles. You might want to rethink which is worst.

You can also hope for the flying jellyfish bug from ark to appear.

I assume jumping in the water with wolves is a good way to get residue, however.

I admit my knowledge of harvesting yields on ants and scorps is sketchy at best but we regularly farm turtles and although the shell yields aren’t amazing, they aren’t 1 shell bad. As far as residue part of my point is that I don’t think jellyfish are even very common, so even if you could kill them easily, how would you get your hands on much residue? Maybe I just don’t know where to look. Maybe the submarine will help us learn where to find thenpm in numbers.

[Bowtie 34]

For residue, you're gonna need a ship with a diving attachment, oil for the suit, and someone on board to yell for you to surface when an SOD shows up; you don't want your ship to sink or your attachment to pop while you're walking on the bottom of the ocean.

 

Once you can dive, start diving at random deep locations with a bow and a lantern on your hip. You'll find jellies.

I haven't tried this next trick but it's worth experimenting with:

Ocean predators are supposedly programmed to spawn near shipwrecks; sink a ship in the ocean and farm the jellies. I recommend a ramshackle sloop.

[Nari 197]

17 minutes ago, Bowtie said:

Ocean predators are supposedly programmed to spawn near shipwrecks; sink a ship in the ocean and farm the jellies. I recommend a ramshackle sloop.

Can confirm sharks will spawn I've seen it first hand but idk about Jellies. Never seen a Jelly spawn at a wreckage site, only when someone glitches off a ship in the middle of the ocean.

[Bowtie 34]

Anytime I killed jellies, sharks we're there too, but that could be a small correlation.

[Kummba 164]

I play PVE and i think the Keratenoid isnt even the worth part for mythical crafting. In Fact for PVE atleast, i like that there is one resource u can not bypass by farming gold (not so much even), and animals (mb ex. Jellyfish) are plenty but can not farmed in one session.

Turtle median for shell is ~12 for me.

From the begining i used the 4x Weekends for mostly farming spawn limited resources (Metal, Hide and Kera..). When i go out for treasure i kill animal which yield the rare resources too.

The problem with mythical crafting is the repair and Mythos cost. I crafted a mythical bow with 220% Dmg and ~80 Durability.

I shoot 10 Arrows, checked repair, 30 Mythos needed. So shooting one arrow equals 3 Mythos. This is not in any way practical for daily use! But i can see the point of hight mythos cost for PVP. For daily use armor and weapon i stay at legendary quality max.

We have Mythical Ship Cannons (~165% dmg) which only required 3 Mythos per craft, so that is doable.

For armor i only crafted one with ~14% intelligence (~780 Mythos --> high repair cost), that stay in base also.

 

[boomervoncannon 1,541]

4 hours ago, Kummba said:

I play PVE and i think the Keratenoid isnt even the worth part for mythical crafting. In Fact for PVE atleast, i like that there is one resource u can not bypass by farming gold (not so much even), and animals (mb ex. Jellyfish) are plenty but can not farmed in one session.

Turtle median for shell is ~12 for me.

From the begining i used the 4x Weekends for mostly farming spawn limited resources (Metal, Hide and Kera..). When i go out for treasure i kill animal which yield the rare resources too.

The problem with mythical crafting is the repair and Mythos cost. I crafted a mythical bow with 220% Dmg and ~80 Durability.

I shoot 10 Arrows, checked repair, 30 Mythos needed. So shooting one arrow equals 3 Mythos. This is not in any way practical for daily use! But i can see the point of hight mythos cost for PVP. For daily use armor and weapon i stay at legendary quality max.

We have Mythical Ship Cannons (~165% dmg) which only required 3 Mythos per craft, so that is doable.

For armor i only crafted one with ~14% intelligence (~780 Mythos --> high repair cost), that stay in base also.

 

So one of the questions raised by my Op and this post is do the devs really want the cost of their highest tier to be so great that people don’t want to use the thing day to day for fear of losing it or because the repair cost is impractical? I’d agree that if the repair  cost of a single arrow fired is 3 mythos, the question what’s worth paying 3 mythos a pop to shot at would likely have a practical answer of nothing. The replacement cost makes it impractical.

Now if new creatures or resources are put into the game that allow for the farming of these things at significantly higher rates maybe that changes, but right now it just feels like an impracticality.

[archaegeo 192]

10 minutes ago, boomervoncannon said:

So one of the questions raised by my Op and this post is do the devs really want the cost of their highest tier to be so great that people don’t want to use the thing day to day for fear of losing it or because the repair cost is impractical? I’d agree that if the repair  cost of a single arrow fired is 3 mythos, the question what’s worth paying 3 mythos a pop to shot at would likely have a practical answer of nothing. The replacement cost makes it impractical.

Now if new creatures or resources are put into the game that allow for the farming of these things at significantly higher rates maybe that changes, but right now it just feels like an impracticality.

Yes they do want that, and its good.

The highest tier gear should be very hard to get and costly to repair, that way you choose to use it, not everyone must have it to "win"

Legendary gear, upgraded, is really good.   Mythical is for min-maxers with slaves to get them mythos and other ingredients.  But even then, mythos is easy to get if you go hunting for it.

[Kummba 164]

6 minutes ago, boomervoncannon said:

Now if new creatures or resources are put into the game that allow for the farming of these things at significantly higher rates maybe that changes, but right now it just feels like an impracticality.

For repairing this bow (durabiity of two normal ones) requires to kill ~4 cyclops at the moment. Low long this takes depends on population of cyclops (i mean you go there and kill all that are easy to do /aggro) and the traveling time. Can be near 0 or 50 only went once and come back with ~8k myhtos (~11 repairs).

But anyway 1 shot arrow = crafting cost of a mythical medium ship plank in terms of mythos seems way off!

[Kummba 164]

4 minutes ago, archaegeo said:

Yes they do want that, and its good. 

The highest tier gear should be very hard to get and costly to repair, that way you choose to use it, not everyone must have it to "win"

Legendary gear, upgraded, is really good.   Mythical is for min-maxers with slaves to get them mythos and other ingredients.  But even then, mythos is easy to get if you go hunting for it.

I see that. It is fine for gear used in PVP. I read a reply from the ChemB guy about 300+ % carabine killing geared people with chest shots.

Even if i only play PVE i can see thats maybe even worth 20 mythos per shot, if it helps u succsess/ speed up at an online raid/ defence.

But i am talking about an Bow, is a bow, as glitchy as it is, viable in PVP?

Tools are viable in PVP? I think the mythos requirements for the mythical Sickel BP was also in the range of 780 mythos. i dont think time save farming with it (no use anyway with tames) are worth the 700 mythos!

For armor i would use them on daily basis (PVE again) if they had desired stats, because durability isnt reduced that fast..

[boomervoncannon 1,541]

6 minutes ago, archaegeo said:

Yes they do want that, and its good.

The highest tier gear should be very hard to get and costly to repair, that way you choose to use it, not everyone must have it to "win"

Legendary gear, upgraded, is really good.   Mythical is for min-maxers with slaves to get them mythos and other ingredients.  But even then, mythos is easy to get if you go hunting for it.

Don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying mythic gear shouldn't be hard to make. I actually really like the design concept of requiring increasing kinds of mats instead of just more of x. Except for hide this requires exploring or trading increasingly for mats found in different areas of the map. I think that is great. What I'm saying is within that great basic design concept I sense a problem of impracticality that may need tweaking.  It looks likely that a full set of mythic plate or fur will require between 300 to 500 of each type of keretenoid to craft. At present finding even one or two jellyfish could take an average of an hour or more.

Do you see jellyfish often? I've been playing since day one and I think I've seen two or three. Not killed, SEEN. They have a stun which makes melee attacks impractical. Bows are really the only way of killing them most of the time.  How much residue does each one yield? Based on the conversations I've had with the few people I know who have killed any, less than 25. Think about what that translates into for hours spent farming for a single mat of 25 to 30 mats needed. Very boring hours because right now it's mostly hunting for a thing that is hard to find which you don't encounter much in normal gameplay. 

And that's just the quantities needed for the initial craft. It does not take into account the even greater amounts likely needed to do upgrades or the cost of maintaining these. Think about the insane amount of hours this translates into over time in crafting, upgrading and maintaining a single set of armor. I submit to you that it is a cost that the vast majority of players won't bother with, and that even those that do will wind up being unwilling to use the gear except in the most highly specialized circumstances becaues of the fear of losing such an enormous investment of time. 

Now let's compare the mythic to legendary. With legendary you can eliminate mythos and a single mat for only incrementally less effectiveness. This is a far less budensome cost for something only slightly less better. Think about what 3 mythos for arrow really means in terms of a maintenance cost. Do you know of anything you would want to shoot at ingame that the difference in damage between legendary and mythic is worth having to kill a yeti for every two to three shots fired from that bow? It's not that the cost shouldn't be steep, it's that the cost is impractical when weighed against other factors.

I'm actually not really suggesting so much that the crafting costs should be altered as much as drop rates for the mat should be increased and mostly that locating the source of the mat shouldn't be so burdensome.

[MrHeid 79]

Player traders are coming soon.  I think this will solve this problem a bit

[Thor Ragnarock 99]

I haven't done much looking for jellyfish. I have found a few alphas scorpions and turtles which gave me a good chunk. But I agree on the whole (Ants & Spider) , Scorpions being the worst. Turtles you can actually find lots of so that can be grinded out, although it would be nice if they gave slightly more shell (thinking pigs). Scorpions definitely spawn infrequently in certain areas as do ants my base has a spawn for ants just outside I see them almost daily and also get a spider occasionally and a few of the other islands I frequent have scorpions fairly regularly but compared to bone (I have a fairly big piles), scales (I have tens of thousands of scales from all the cobras),  the other 3 I probably have a bit over 1k of maybe? That is getting tens of each per usual gather. Maybe a bit over 100 on an alpha. All the other mats are pretty easy to get/gather in quantity. Even mythos is not terribly hard to get just a bit of work to kill the stuff that gives decent amounts.

[boomervoncannon 1,541]

8 minutes ago, MrHeid said:

Player traders are coming soon.  I think this will solve this problem a bit

If no one can get their hands on meaningful quantities of residue, how would this help?

[Archsenex 309]

I would hope Deep Sea Trenches might actually be where the help lies.  Likely they'll have Jellies there, and people will be down there for the resources etc.

[boomervoncannon 1,541]

41 minutes ago, Thor Ragnarock said:

I haven't done much looking for jellyfish. I have found a few alphas scorpions and turtles which gave me a good chunk. But I agree on the whole (Ants & Spider) , Scorpions being the worst. Turtles you can actually find lots of so that can be grinded out, although it would be nice if they gave slightly more shell (thinking pigs). Scorpions definitely spawn infrequently in certain areas as do ants my base has a spawn for ants just outside I see them almost daily and also get a spider occasionally and a few of the other islands I frequent have scorpions fairly regularly but compared to bone (I have a fairly big piles), scales (I have tens of thousands of scales from all the cobras),  the other 3 I probably have a bit over 1k of maybe? That is getting tens of each per usual gather. Maybe a bit over 100 on an alpha. All the other mats are pretty easy to get/gather in quantity. Even mythos is not terribly hard to get just a bit of work to kill the stuff that gives decent amounts.

I think the fairly low yields on ants and scorps could work as long as they are reasonably abundant. What this could lead to is them serving as a mat newer players can farm and sell to established players who don’t want to deal with the farming and get a leg up.

[Archsenex 309]

Once we built a supply base on a desert isle, carapace became a non issue.

Shell is far less abundant for us. Because yes turtles give strangely low yield. 

Keratinoid (the variant kind, they have GOT to fix the name) isnt too bad.  Partially because ants are such wimps we kill all of them

[boomervoncannon 1,541]

2 minutes ago, Archsenex said:

Once we built a supply base on a desert isle, carapace became a non issue.

Shell is far less abundant for us. Because yes turtles give strangely low yield. 

Keratinoid (the variant kind, they have GOT to fix the name) isnt too bad.  Partially because ants are such wimps we kill all of them

Good to know about carapace. It means someone will have it in abundance, and that’s all that matters.

[MrHeid 79]

1 hour ago, boomervoncannon said:

If no one can get their hands on meaningful quantities of residue, how would this help?

If its a high value item many people will sell it for high gold amounts. So if you want quantity your going to have to pay. It happens in every game.  Not everyone is going for mythic quality armor.  I don't think the devs intended for everyone to get it. Only the rich and the lucky will get the best armor.  Just like most mmo games.

 

 

[gadefence 148]

17 hours ago, boomervoncannon said:

I admit my knowledge of harvesting yields on ants and scorps is sketchy at best but we regularly farm turtles and although the shell yields aren’t amazing, they aren’t 1 shell bad. As far as residue part of my point is that I don’t think jellyfish are even very common, so even if you could kill them easily, how would you get your hands on much residue? Maybe I just don’t know where to look. Maybe the submarine will help us learn where to find thenpm in numbers.

Don't forget spiders that spawn in high level areas, you can also go and farm the shit out of those. (get fiber and kera)

As to jellyfish, I ran through a zone once, jumped in the water for a flotsam and like 30 of those shits came right for me. Don't remember WHERE but if you find them there's usually a good amount. Was tropical IIRC. Look around, and bring friends, I got out before getting tentaraped but they do stun on hit.

17 hours ago, Nari said:

Not entirely accurate, I get at least 10 shells per turtle 

This is ridiculous... I've hoarded thousands upon thousands of bones and scales but only have a couple hundred shells and carapace stocked up. The ironic part is I actually go out of my way for the last two types.

I guess it depends on luck. I've harvested only a couple dozen turtles and only remember getting 1-2 shells per.

[Nari 197]

7 minutes ago, gadefence said:

Don't forget spiders that spawn in high level areas

Do you happen to remember which GR grids have spiders by chance? I feel like it was either desert or tropic but I can't remember which.

[gadefence 148]

30 minutes ago, Nari said:

Do you happen to remember which GR grids have spiders by chance? I feel like it was either desert or tropic but I can't remember which.

Sector above me (B8) has VERY few spider spawns.  I have only been to a few golden age areas - the one near me isn't it, the cold one isn't it, the only other one I have is O7, so give O7 a try. It had a lot of wolves and spiders. . . It also had fire eles, who I hear are annoying as fuck.