Jump to content

Xmun

Island availability

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Jean Lafitte said:

As far as I'm concerned, the claim system works as intended.

Because you managed to get your claims early on. That is the main reason for you sitting on your own land, not your virtues.

Try to get the same land anywhere in the tundra or polar region. At least on the EU-PVE-server there is no more land to claim. That may change in a few weeks though.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Ben de Witt said:

Because you managed to get your claims early on. That is the main reason for you sitting on your own land, not your virtues.

Try to get the same land anywhere in the tundra or polar region. At least on the EU-PVE-server there is no more land to claim. That may change in a few weeks though.

You are not thinking outside the box. You expect to just run up, drop a flag and bam, you're a land owner.  Try that IRL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Jean Lafitte said:

You are not thinking outside the box. You expect to just run up, drop a flag and bam, you're a land owner.  Try that IRL.

But you made exactly that. Claimed unclaimed land early on. That is pure luck, nothing more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This so frustrating. Can someone explain how you can come across a flag that Has a negative expiration and you can't do anything.

Can anyone explain these when you look at or try to place a flag ?

Can't place territory claim flag: You can not make claims at this time

Other company PVE claim Flag upkeep expires in 19:......

Can't place territory claim flag: other nearby company pve claim

 

The entire redo of the claim system is very confusing to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ben de Witt said:

But you made exactly that. Claimed unclaimed land early on. That is pure luck, nothing more.

Wrong again. I took a claim. I wasn't whining because I couldn't find one. I wasn't on the forums demanding some tropical paradise. I took a claim that had no fiber on the island at all.  I took a claim on an island that has 2 metal nodes, which I still haven't found. Why? Because I knew nobody else would want it. I had to sail a raft 2 grids south, collect enough fiber to build a sloop and sail back.  With that sloop, I sailed back south and collected enough fiber to build a schooner.  I pounded rocks with a pickaxe to get metal.  I slowly expanded to 12 claims by taking what no one else wanted.  I intentionally went to the tundra because I knew people were too lazy to work to achieve goals... too... entitled.  "Oh, it's too cold, oh, there are too many aggros, oh, there's no fiber. oh, it depresses me."

We... my crew and I... now have 81 claims and it started on a tundra island, 3 weeks after launch with a raft and a claim someone decided was too hard for them to work.  NONE of it was luck. I counted on humans being exactly the way they are.

And each of those that have merged with us, have stories just like this.

I say again, think outside the box.

Edited by Jean Lafitte

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LOL 81 claims, so you hog land. Beautiful.. and this folks right here is why people have issues getting land. And I am done on this post because it seems Jean is mightier than the rest of us peons. Talking things through with them seems to be lost, as they do everything correctly while the rest of us... we are just stupid and lazy.

Hats off to you...

To those that are struggling for a piece of the pie for themselves, I wish you nothing but luck and hopefully you get the things you seek.

                                    Ivah

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ivah BlackWater said:

LOL 81 claims, so you hog land. Beautiful.. and this folks right here is why people have issues getting land.

Read the entire thread. I'm trying to give land away.  But I'm not going to give it to some jackass who's going to come to the island and piss off our neighbors, our friends and our allies.  Now if you know you're an asshole, fine. You can sit here and bitch about having 'issues' ... and I'll keep sitting on that land until I find someone who REALLY wants it.

And to those that are struggling for a piece of the pie for themselves, I'm offering you a slice. You can either bitch that the piece isn't big enough, or it's the wrong flavor or... you can take it and see what you can make of it.  Your choice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We are on lawless. We started with a small building while we searched for a claim. Still not found one. Our little hut is now turning into a town. We have good neighbours and people who look after each other where we are. And yes we look after each others claims if we know someone cant make the 4 day requirement. - so long as we know you are definitely coming back. We have had a couple of folk build massive things and never been back since but generally if folk are leaving the game or the island someone knows about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Jean Lafitte said:

You are not thinking outside the box.

Please educate me. Show me the shadows on the wall, and then lead me to its source, you entitled Gamer-Plato.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Ben de Witt said:

Please educate me. Show me the shadows on the wall, and then lead me to its source, you entitled Gamer-Plato.

Certainly. Just talked to a group of players from a small company in our discord last night.

When they came to Atlas, they started, like many, on a lawless island.  From there, they thought outside the box.  They went to a polar region. Why? Because like me, they knew nobody else would want those claims because it was too cold, there were too many wolves, there were too many yeti, there were no veggies, there was no fiber, there were too many game elements that made it a challenge to survive, which is not what most people want.  From those claims in that polar region, they went to other grids, farmed what they couldn't find on the polar island and began building infrastructure.  Now, they're sitting on a rich pile of cobalt that grows like weeds and one of the few easy ways of gathering mythos, something that's going to be even more highly prized as more people get into crafting higher level gear.

Yesterday, I paid them a brief visit on their tundra claim and opened up one of our claims so they could build on it.  They spent the weekend taming  an elephant and a giraffe and were about to build a new stable to house them.  When I stopped there, they were all working together to tame a high level bear.

They now have 23 claims.

Yesterday, I asked them to merge with us.  They've been gaming together for a couple of years now and understand that it requires effort to succeed in a game like Atlas. Not once have they asked for a handout, not once did they get on the forums and demand a claim and not once have I heard them complain about their 'lot in life.'  They took lemons and made lemonade. 

Those are the kind of people I want to play Atlas with.

Edited by Jean Lafitte

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NA/EU PVE not the same, most of ppl who have issue with claim are on eu, na have half the player than eu in pve, and not the same way of thinking and playing ect

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jean Lafitte said:

From there, they thought outside the box.

So you really think the root of our claiming-problem is lack of gaming fitness and social competence?

I am so narrow minded, and really thought it is more of a quantitative and logical problem, which causes unbalanced chances for first movers.

But hey, who am I to judge.

Edited by Ben de Witt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Ben de Witt said:

So you really think the root of our claiming-problem is lack of gaming fitness and social competence?

I am so narrow minded, and really thought it is more of a quantitative and logical problem, which causes unbalanced chances for first movers.

But hey, who am I to judge.

I don't know what your particular issue is and I'm not trying to judge anyone. What I'm trying to do is prove that claiming land isn't nearly as impossible as everyone would like to think.  I just took a claim over the weekend to solidify one of our bases, 2 weeks ago a neighbor saw that we had a couple of claims and an outpost in a polar region and demolished several adjoining claims they had so that we could get some metal nodes and 'have some room to spread out'.  He did this voluntarily without us asking.  Why? We've been good neighbors. In 3 days, there's another waterfront claim I've been wanting in order to remove some structures that are blocking another of our claims. I'll be watching it with particular interest. 

It's not quantitative, it's qualitative. If you want the claims, they are there and often just for the asking. If you come into a grid and immediately bitch about how every single spot is taken, you're likely be told there's nothing there for you.  If you come into a grid looking to settle some land and you're willing to take a few risks in order to reap the rewards, then the system will work, exactly as it's intended to. 

The only logic that fails most people in this game is how to be diplomatic, causing your unbalanced system to work even less in their favor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is all good. I do not doubt, that you are a good person. And I am not blaming you, that you are in fact an early mover. You played by the rules. But this rules are not well thought out, and they have to be altered to level the chances for all players, even players that are starting today. I think the best way to minimize the quantitative problem is to reduce the claims that a player can hold.

Edited by Ben de Witt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Jean Lafitte said:

I don't know what your particular issue is and I'm not trying to judge anyone.

It is all good. I do not doubt, that you are a good person. And I am not blaming you, that you are in fact an early mover. You played by the rules. But this rules are not well thought out, and they have to be altered to level the chances for all players, even players that are starting today. I think the best way to minimize the quantitative problem is to reduce the claims that a player can hold.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Ben de Witt said:

It is all good. I do not doubt, that you are a good person. And I am not blaming you, that you are in fact an early mover. You played by the rules. But this rules are not well thought out, and they have to be altered to level the chances for all players, even players that are starting today. I think the best way to minimize the quantitative problem is to reduce the claims that a player can hold.

And I have no doubt that you've spent a great deal of time and effort in this game and I'm not criticizing you for your opinion. I simply disagree and here's why. 

If this game ever limits the number of claims based upon corporation size or head count, one of the founding principles of the game will be lost.  There are numerous examples throughout RL history of individuals rising from the peasantry to become emperor. Atlas is one of the few MMO's where that incredible feat is possible. Very unlikely, but possible.  It makes that possible by not placing limits on a system of land claims that rightly should be controlled by the players.

Politics, diplomacy, war, intrigue, spies and a host of other player generated content are all possible because of a system run by players.  Should they ever limit the number of claims, all of that vanishes. In PVE, players will eventually reach the point where they have all the gear they could possibly need. They'll have all the ships they could possibly need and they'll have all the tames they could possibly need.  They will have built all the structures they could want and they will have completed the high end content multiple times. If a system is implemented that limits claims, there will be no point in logging in as there will be nothing to do that hasn't been done.

EVE Online is coming up on it's 16th anniversary.  As of this writing, the 24 hour peak was 32,696.  You don't keep that may people playing a game for that many years with just dev created content. Those kinds of numbers can only be generated by a system that promoted player generated content.

Now, that being said, if you've ever brought up the radial menu on another person (and this may be a corp owner/admin thing only), there's something there of interest.  You can declare war on them.  When/if this becomes possible in PVE, I believe you're going to see the face of Atlas change drastically. 

Until such time though, my opinion is stay the course.  It's still a very young and developing political system. Let's see what alliances form, what intrigue develops, let's see what content the players can create.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Ben de Witt said:

Because you managed to get your claims early on. That is the main reason for you sitting on your own land, not your virtues.

The issues with the claim system are not the first come first serve aspects. Believe it or not that IS intended and functional. The issues come from bugs and PvE oversight. Protection is the main issue (and overlap another topic). If the counter wasn't increased to 21+ days, if they didn't count negative, and if they were removed when expired 99% of these topics/opinions would not exist.

Edited by Nari
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, gumbyc said:

Can anyone explain to me why this is alright ? Also explain why or how so many flags are in open seas ?

If it's any consolation they almost outright removed water claims. Their reasoning was Removed Water Claims (not useful at present). They still should imo and find another way to deal with claiming undersea biomes when released.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After reading this entire thread up to this point I tend to agree with Jean. I also started on day one not knowing how the claim system worked and dealing with the freeport lag fest. A few days in i started to figure it out, but by then most land was spoken for. After sailing around for a few more days exploring and just appreciating the game and learning the different systems it offers I stumbled into a conversation with some very nice folks. They offered me a piece of land that had 0 shore line but i was very thankful and figured I would at least have a base of operations to work out of. After building my base place I spotted some shore line near me that If i claimed I could make a shipyard work on it...voila! A few weeks later one of my neighbors decided to go to a private server and offered to merge with my company and therefor gifting me all his lands. Since then I have capped 2 more plots on either side of me. I have grand plans for what I will build now and keep an eye out for more land (with 0% tax because I still think that whole system is bullshit but that's for a different thread). 

I agree my case is not the norm but its also not the only one of its kind. I'm suggesting first and foremost have fun playing and try to not get frustrated and lose sight of whats fun in the game. Its not a land ownership game. Land will come with time if you are happy and having fun. You will meet good people and good things will happen. If you're always pissed off about X it will come through in your conversations. Who wants the grumpy old man for a neighbor? Beyond that if you can gain a piece of land even if its land-locked, or in a "not so great" server or island, you never know what will come from that. I have faith this claim system will evolve into a version of what it is now and we will all be the better for it. 

Have fun and my sincerest hopes go with you on finding what it is you're looking for!

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Nari said:

The issues with the claim system are not the first come first serve aspects. Believe it or not that IS intended and functional. 

I think the bugs are on top of an allready problematic claiming system. And in all respect, the mentioned first come first serve aspects are obviously intended, but none the less problematic, at least in my view. I think that limiting the amount of claims per player could help heighten the chances to claim for all, without withdrawing the consequences of good or bad player skill. Maybe I should mention that my perspective is PVE based.

Edited by Ben de Witt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jean Lafitte said:

It's still a very young and developing political system. Let's see what alliances form, what intrigue develops, let's see what content the players can create.

Well, here I totally agree with you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Ben de Witt said:

Maybe I should mention that my perspective is PVE based.

Everyone who has issues with the claims, from the concept to the execution are all PvE. The only complaints you'll see from PvP are regarding capture timers and contesting.

Bugs and PvE Oversight. The concept is not as broken as these threads would lead people to believe. I've had claims stolen due to bugs/exploits and over time I've re-claimed those claims legitimately in PvE. Even after the scaling update heck I just reclaimed land yesterday. The issue isn't the concept of controlling and taxing land it's the lack of quality control and foresight.

Edited by Nari

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice:

"First of all, we’ll be revamping the Land Claim/Ownership System. We recognize that for a lot of players, land is incredibly difficult to get, and in some cases impossible, unless you’re in a lawless zone or playing with a large group. This is something we’re planning on addressing by introducing some new mechanisms related to land claiming..."

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...