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Long John Screw Off

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 I generally never post on game forums but screw it.

I was reading through forums since I am a new player and frankly couldn't believe my eyes when I read this response from Jat. So I understand the game is in fact in EA. I knew that when it was purchased. But telling upset players to quit the game if they don't have the patience to deal with game breaking bugs? Really? That's not professional, and yes you should be called out on it. Is the poster he responded to being a crybaby...yes of course. Their most likely a young kid who simply doesn't understand the depth of development involved. However valid points were made.

From reading over recent posts it's been made very clear that GrapeCard has no intentions of taking on extra customer service support. While as a new player I completely disagree, I understand. But telling your customers if they don't like your buggy EA game to quit is about as ignorant as it comes. This statement is on the level that caused the Blizzard, Electronic Arts, and Bethesda fan backlashes, and frankly needs to stop. Attempting to shame your fans for being passionate about your game's success if ignorant and off base.

GrapeCard cannot plead poverty the way many independent studios can when trying to get their new game off the ground. They are sitting on a rather sizeable pile of cash generated from Ark's out of nowhere runaway success can afford greater customer service staffing. Wildcard nor Grapeshot are Indie title developers as they so proclaim to be. You don't make hundreds of millions and still try to cling to "we're a small indie team". Especially, after being purchased by Snailgames. 

The minute someone pays for a product, they have the right to expect to be treated like a customer. Testers in free alpha and beta trials earlier times could not reasonably expect support. In a paid EA, everyone should certainly expect to encounter bugs and glitches, but to say that one should expect unprofessional levels of CS response times just because it is EA is ignoring the difference between free trials and paid. If GrapeCard does not want to provide reasonable levels of CS support during EA, let them make EA-free. They are not broke, sitting on 3 years of Top 10 steam levels of revenue from Ark. Failing to provide professional levels of CS in a paid product, EA or no, is not excusable.

If this was a free EA, I'd give the following statement a break. However, it is, in fact, a paid EA. Therefore this would be the same as if I told one of my clients that encountered issues with my software to come back later, knowing full well, I didn't plan on hiring any additional staff to properly handle the issue. So while the following statement is worded professionally, it is clearly shitting on the customer.

 

Quote

 

JATHEISH

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In regards to this bug, it's something the team are aware of and we're looking into. We've got quite a few things we'd like to tackle varying from the design of the game, to bugs/exploits, balance concerns, and server performance and stability. Not everything can be resolved immediately, and as stated in previous posts, we've provided insight into how our customer service requests are being handled and managed with our small team through Early Access. If it's not something you have the patience. I recommend stepping away and giving us a go at another time when we're further in our development process, as that might be a more enjoyable experience for you. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Long John Screw Off

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He didnt say quit, he stated the game might be more enjoyable to them once they get a chance to balancing out the content.

I personally think the developpers are doing a fantastic job and have accomplished a great deal since they launched the game. They still have a lit of work ahead of them and I am sure they will find a way to balance everything out in the end.

Edited by Bad News Bear
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I don't think it's reasonable to expect the devs/CS to provide personal replacement of items for every player the experiences a bug or exploit in an early access title paid or not.  You paid for the game knowing that there were going to be bugs that could result in lost items/progress.  The devs are fixing the issues as they arise and have the bandwidth to do so.  Jat's comment is completely reasonable EA titles aren't for everyone.

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Wait you think Jat doesnt care and is being unprofessional?!?!  If the game designers say this is how we plan on doing something due to efficiency in the process right now, repeatedly post in captain's logs and forum posts that this is the system, and even set up the tickets to say expect this....... and then further say our focus is on mechanics, playability,  etc not refunding every lost item to a glitch they are laying out a ToS (Terms of Service in case you don't know)for the playerbase.  That is incredibly professional.  Maybe people should actually read the content not just post titles.

Furthermore he at no point says you're a crybaby go dry your sweet tears on mama's apron. He calmly says the game is still rough around the edges, center, top, but the bottom seems okay... hasn't fallen out yet.  (That was sarcasm/humor for the game isnt perfect), so give us some time and come back.  

The fact that the dev's have the patience to read all the hate and vile in here and keep plugging along with their project is a testament of their dedication. It's not finished.  I've lost high level tames more times than I can remember.  I've lost an entire base do to a server restart causing a collision issue and it all broke.  I've had SoD spawn in my harbor and sink my ships even after things are supposed to be fixed.  I've fallen through the mesh.  I've lost gear, land, dealt with griefing, and more.  I've played Pvp, pve, and private.  Ive started over 12+ times to test different things.  Guess what... they care.  Know how I know that?  Cause they are still working.

This isnt a fairy tale. There is no magic wand.  The dev's and @Jatheish are probably working 12 hour days with little sleep.  Why?  Cause there is just a hunger to produce an awesome game.  I hope you realize how ignorant you (you in this instance is not singling out only the OP, but all the big whiners out there )sound someday, and how hard people work in real jobs all over the place not just here.

Keep up the great work guys.  

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You make it sound like Jat was being a complete asshole in his reply, while in fact, it was very professional, and informative.  At first, I was thinking that they should offer a refund instead of telling someone to quit, but in reality - no.  It is EA, they said very clearly that there will be bugs as well as aspects of the game that are not quite fleshed out - or even much more than conceptual.  Going in to this I understood very well that there will be crashes, bugs, loss of crafts/tames/etc.  I believe your post was very misleading.

Edited by corpse
misspelling

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OP is a drama queen.  Telling someone it might be best to step away for a while is NOT telling them to quit.

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Despite the parade of fanboys trying to edit Jatheish's statement, OP, you're exactly right. Grapeshot is the biggest bunch of excuse-making amateurs I've ever seen. The support is trash, the game is full of bugs and designed like shit. If

14 minutes ago, Vonhelswag said:

The dev's and @Jatheish are probably working 12 hour days with little sleep.

it's because they literally don't know what they're doing and are some of the least talented and professional developers in the industry.

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22 minutes ago, strawman said:

Despite the parade of fanboys trying to edit Jatheish's statement, OP, you're exactly right. Grapeshot is the biggest bunch of excuse-making amateurs I've ever seen. The support is trash, the game is full of bugs and designed like shit. If

it's because they literally don't know what they're doing and are some of the least talented and professional developers in the industry.

In what way do you mean edit?  If anything, the OP severely edited (misrepresented) Jat's statement.  I am not sure you are a regular player - and if you aren't why are you spending your time here?  If you are, why are you playing a game you say is "shit design"? 

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2 hours ago, Long John Screw Off said:

 I generally never post on game forums but screw it.

I was reading through forums since I am a new player and frankly couldn't believe my eyes when I read this response from Jat. So I understand the game is in fact in EA. I knew that when it was purchased. But telling upset players to quit the game if they don't have the patience to deal with game breaking bugs? Really? That's not professional, and yes you should be called out on it. Is the poster he responded to being a crybaby...yes of course. Their most likely a young kid who simply doesn't understand the depth of development involved. However valid points were made.

From reading over recent posts it's been made very clear that GrapeCard has no intentions of taking on extra customer service support. While as a new player I completely disagree, I understand. But telling your customers if they don't like your buggy EA game to quit is about as ignorant as it comes. This statement is on the level that caused the Blizzard, Electronic Arts, and Bethesda fan backlashes, and frankly needs to stop. Attempting to shame your fans for being passionate about your game's success if ignorant and off base.

GrapeCard cannot plead poverty the way many independent studios can when trying to get their new game off the ground. They are sitting on a rather sizeable pile of cash generated from Ark's out of nowhere runaway success can afford greater customer service staffing. Wildcard nor Grapeshot are Indie title developers as they so proclaim to be. You don't make hundreds of millions and still try to cling to "we're a small indie team". Especially, after being purchased by Snailgames. 

The minute someone pays for a product, they have the right to expect to be treated like a customer. Testers in free alpha and beta trials earlier times could not reasonably expect support. In a paid EA, everyone should certainly expect to encounter bugs and glitches, but to say that one should expect unprofessional levels of CS response times just because it is EA is ignoring the difference between free trials and paid. If GrapeCard does not want to provide reasonable levels of CS support during EA, let them make EA-free. They are not broke, sitting on 3 years of Top 10 steam levels of revenue from Ark. Failing to provide professional levels of CS in a paid product, EA or no, is not excusable.

If this was a free EA, I'd give the following statement a break. However, it is, in fact, a paid EA. Therefore this would be the same as if I told one of my clients that encountered issues with my software to come back later, knowing full well, I didn't plan on hiring any additional staff to properly handle the issue. So while the following statement is worded professionally, it is clearly shitting on the customer.

 

 

@Tiberius_theron is that you? Brand new account posting the exact same thing that has been posted for the last 2 day, in locked posts.  

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My experience from ARK is that customer service and intervention towards cheaters etc is pretty much non existent. And this is due to the business model. The same model that is the reason why servers are hosted on discount junk and performs like a turd. This is one of the things you have to accept with Grapeshot/Wildcard.

And this will NEVER change, EA or not.

Edited by Shintai

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35 minutes ago, Shintai said:

My experience from ARK is that customer service and intervention towards cheaters etc is pretty much non existent. And this is due to the business model. The same model that is the reason why servers are hosted on discount junk and performs like a turd. This is one of the things you have to accept with Grapeshot/Wildcard.

And this will NEVER change, EA or not.

Definitely, but with the hardware - you can only speculate. 

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So, I was just working on some code to bind to a specific port and send a UDP request to a server using PHP.  I kept getting a 'not permitted' error.  I put in a support ticket with my host with a sample of the code I'm using.  Within the hour I had a reply. Because of the technical nature of my request, it got shot straight to their CTO.  And this isn't exactly a small hosting company.  The CTO mind you, replied with very technical specifications as to what they allowed and what they didn't and then asked me for my requirements.

It was a timely response.  A personal response. It was an informative response. And I got the impression that, depending on my needs, they may make accommodations.

I pay these guys a whopping $5.00 per month.

Had I gotten the response... 

"I'm terribly sorry but we have a limited staff and can't be bothered to deal with your issue. We do thank you for reporting it and if we get enough complaints, we may or may not fix that issue.  If you don't like this fact, please find another host for your websites and come back when we have our head out of our ass...."

I'd be backing up my websites in preparation for a move instead of writing this post.

 

Edited by Jean Lafitte
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1 hour ago, Jean Lafitte said:

So, I was just working on some code to bind to a specific port and send a UDP request to a server using PHP.  I kept getting a 'not permitted' error.  I put in a support ticket with my host with a sample of the code I'm using.  Within the hour I had a reply. Because of the technical nature of my request, it got shot straight to their CTO.  And this isn't exactly a small hosting company.  The CTO mind you, replied with very technical specifications as to what they allowed and what they didn't and then asked me for my requirements.

It was a timely response.  A personal response. It was an informative response. And I got the impression that, depending on my needs, they may make accommodations.

I pay these guys a whopping $5.00 per month.

Had I gotten the response... 

"I'm terribly sorry but we have a limited staff and can't be bothered to deal with your issue. We do thank you for reporting it and if we get enough complaints, we may or may not fix that issue.  If you don't like this fact, please find another host for your websites and come back when we have our head out of our ass...."

I'd be backing up my websites in preparation for a move instead of writing this post.

 

Did your hosting company just begin a 2 year development cycle?  Did they let you know right from the beginning that there would be bugs, crashes and loss of information?  If so, I think you chose... poorly.

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2 hours ago, Jean Lafitte said:

So, I was just working on some code to bind to a specific port and send a UDP request to a server using PHP.  I kept getting a 'not permitted' error.  I put in a support ticket with my host with a sample of the code I'm using.  Within the hour I had a reply. Because of the technical nature of my request, it got shot straight to their CTO.  And this isn't exactly a small hosting company.  The CTO mind you, replied with very technical specifications as to what they allowed and what they didn't and then asked me for my requirements.

It was a timely response.  A personal response. It was an informative response. And I got the impression that, depending on my needs, they may make accommodations.

I pay these guys a whopping $5.00 per month.

Had I gotten the response... 

"I'm terribly sorry but we have a limited staff and can't be bothered to deal with your issue. We do thank you for reporting it and if we get enough complaints, we may or may not fix that issue.  If you don't like this fact, please find another host for your websites and come back when we have our head out of our ass...."

I'd be backing up my websites in preparation for a move instead of writing this post.

 

Anecdotal.

I had a similar run in with Customer Service. Just the other day, I went to the local thrift shop to browse the aisles. I found a lovely pair of gently used underwear for $0.99. When I took the underwear to the counter, the  cashier told me "these are used and their may be some problems with these underwear".  But hey, they are $0.99 so I took my chances. 

When I walked out of the thrift shop, I opened up the package and low and behold, someone had shit in these underwear. Now, since they told me there may be some problems, I figured I would take care of the situation myself. So, I went to the laundry mat that was next door and owned by the same company to wash the soiled underwear. I put them in the washer and when they came out they were clean as a brand new pair.  I then proceeded to put them in the dryer. 

Now, it had been a long day. So I figured I would rest my eyes while the underwear were drying. When I woke up, much to my dismay, the dryer had been broken into and the underwear were gone. Luckily the laundry mat had a security camera system that was pointed at the exact dryer. So, upon reviewing the footage, you guessed it, a group of Chinese came in, broke into my dryer, and stole my underwear while I was asleep. 

Of course I was angry. So, I went back to the thrift store and yelled at the marketing manager and the customer service representatives telling them that their laundry mat next door let a bunch of Chinese in to steal my underwear and demanded they either give me my money back or give me a new pair of underwear since the Chinese stole them from the dryer in the laundry mat when I was sleeping. They told me they couldn't give me a new pair of underwear, but they would have their mechanics install locks on all the doors so it would be much more difficult for the anyone to steal underwear from any of the customers who use the laundry mat.

So, guess what I did. I immediately grabbed the intercom system and proceeded to yell to all the customers about how I was mistreated and their customer service is complete shit. When they unplugged the intercom system I got even more angry. So, I slapped the baby the women behind me was holding and kicked a puppy on my way out the door.

But, I returned to that laundry mat to wash my clothes 10 times since then, knowing maintenance has not installed the locks on the doors. And guess what, clothes keep getting stolen and I keep yelling over the intercom. I think it will fix itself soon. 

 

Edited by Wh33ls

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55 minutes ago, corpse said:

Did your hosting company just begin a 2 year development cycle?  Did they let you know right from the beginning that there would be bugs, crashes and loss of information?  If so, I think you chose... poorly.

You are correct. They are a well established company. But I bet they didn't get there by telling their customers to, 'shove off' either.

In 2005, Sprint merged with Nextel.  Not long after, their customer service turned to shit.  It was described as being in a 'free fall.'  In one year alone Sprint lost over 30 MILLION customers (I was one of those) all because of poor customer service.  Their stock plummeted 66%.

One Sprint employee described it like this: "the numbers-driven management approach implemented after the combination led to poor morale and deteriorating customer service. Even bathroom trips were monitored. They would micromanage us like children."

I am not saying Grapeshot is anything like that. What I am saying is, when a company becomes so focused on any aspect of their business that customer service is tossed out the window, then they are doomed to repeat history.

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36 minutes ago, Wh33ls said:

Anecdotal.

That was a really horrible anecdote.

A. If I bought underwear, used or not, and found skid marks you can bet I'd be going back to that thrift store and raising hell.
B. If my underwear were stolen from a laundry, I'd be calling the police.
C. If that thrift store told me that they wouldn't replace those shitty underwear you're goddamned right I'd be pissed. I paid for underwear, not shit.
D. If the police told me they weren't going to investigate a theft, you're goddamned right I'd be pissed. Don't wallow in the public trough if you're not going to provide the service you're being paid to provide.

And if EITHER of them told me to move to Canada until we get our shit figured out, I'd start cleaning the guns.

 

Edited by Jean Lafitte

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2 minutes ago, Jean Lafitte said:

That was a really horrible anecdote.

A. If I bought underwear, used or not, and found skid marks you can bet I'd be going back to that thrift store and raising hell.
B. If my underwear were stolen from a laundry, I'd be calling the police.
C. If that thrift store told me that they wouldn't replace those shitty underwear you're goddamned right I'd be pissed. I paid for underwear, not shit.
D. If the police told me they weren't going to investigate a theft, you're goddamned right I'd be pissed. Don't wallow in the public trough if you're not going to provide the service you're being paid to provide.

And if EITHER of them told me to move to Canada until we get our shit figured out, I'd start cleaning the guns.

 

Whoa, whoa, whoa rager. Calm down. 

 

Hey CIA you get that part about  this constantly pissed off dude "cleaning the guns". 

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1 minute ago, Wh33ls said:

Whoa, whoa, whoa rager. Calm down. 

It was an analogy. I see that mine was way more effective than yours.

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2 minutes ago, Jean Lafitte said:

It was an analogy. I see that mine was way more effective than yours.

Yup, an analogy insinuating gun violence. Well played sir. 

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50 minutes ago, Wh33ls said:

So, I slapped the baby the women behind me was holding and kicked a puppy on my way out the door.

And yours portraying sexual battery and animal cruelty?  Touché?

Today's Wikipedia lesson: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Those_who_live_in_glass_houses_should_not_throw_stones

Edited by Jean Lafitte

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The thing I'm starting to wonder about is these kind of responses lead me to believe we are alpha testers.. and yet they ban for exploits, there have been no wipes and resource gathering is minimal...

 

If we are testing, should we not be given tools to test & break things and then report our findings openly so that the developers can fix those things and we move onto trying to break the next thing?

 

I'm honestly confused as to what my role is in this game currently, I'm expected to act like a player, yet i'm treated like a tester and given zero player support.. it really isn't making sense to me and I say this as a bit of a fanboi.

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