I don't feel Grapeshot values it's players time, money, or effort put into its products.

[boomervoncannon 1,541]

1 minute ago, Wh33ls said:

In both examples you state hire more people. I'm sorry to say that in the real world there is this thing called limited resources. So if they are going to hire more GM's to deal with your temporary problems they are also going to have to let go of the developers who are coding long term fixes. I myself prefer long term fixes that help everyone playing the game and not just short term fixes like give me my stuff and delete these rafts that help a few people. 

 

1 minute ago, Wh33ls said:

In both examples you state hire more people. I'm sorry to say that in the real world there is this thing called limited resources. So if they are going to hire more GM's to deal with your temporary problems they are also going to have to let go of the developers who are coding long term fixes. I myself prefer long term fixes that help everyone playing the game and not just short term fixes like give me my stuff and delete these rafts that help a few people. 

As I’ve already pointed out in prior posts in this very thread, while Wildshot resources are not unlimited, they are in fact sitting on 3 years of Top 10 steam level revenue, so claiming poverty when providing sub industry standard levels of active ingame support isn’t gonna fly, sorry.

[Wh33ls 43]

6 minutes ago, boomervoncannon said:

You are splitting hairs by using the word response when what matters is not response but resolution. Acceptable levels of CS are 10% response time and 90% resolution time. It is nice that Dollie at least let him know they were aware of the issue in a timely manner, but only extraordinarily incompetent levels of CS fail to do this bare minimum. If you consider this a fully acceptable level of CS on its own I pray you’re never the CS rep I get stuck dealing with anywhere.

So fine, you say the seriousness of the analogy invalidates it. *eyeroll* Personally I find that to be a load of hogwash, but for the sake of robbing you of such a lame excuse I’ll play ball. Let’s switch to a less life threatening analogy. You go to a factory outlet store (where retailers sell products which didn’t meet full factory QA inspection for discounted prices) You are fully aware that the shoes you buy there may not be perfect, but they are discounted and the store has a reasonable refund and exchange policy, so you buy a pair at a nice price, take it home, put it on the next day and the tongue on one shoe promptly falls off. The shoe is useless. Not to worry, you take it back to the store for an exchange, only the clerk informs you that despite rows of identical shoes that only the general manager can handle exchanges and he just left for two weeks vacation in Des Moines, you’ll have to come back in a fortnight. 

This would be piss poor CS, and given this companies track record, this is directly analogous to the concern being expressed by the Op, which you seem intent on dismissing on grounds I do not agree are acceptable.

That would be piss poor customer service for you, but I think it would be acceptable since I was buying products at discounted prices due to knowing they have defects. You can't make analogies for individuals acceptable levels of risk. Some people go skydiving, some don't. You can't make a 100% true statement about human behavior.

47.32978% off all statistics are made up on the fly. I believe that acceptable levels of customer service are 99% response time and 1% resolution time. 

I personally would rather the core mechanics get fixed for everyone than me get my stuffs back. Guess I'm just being unselfish. 

[Wh33ls 43]

11 minutes ago, boomervoncannon said:

 

As I’ve already pointed out in prior posts in this very thread, while Wildshot resources are not unlimited, they are in fact sitting on 3 years of Top 10 steam level revenue, so claiming poverty when providing sub industry standard levels of active ingame support isn’t gonna fly, sorry.

3 years of a top 10 game? Werid, didn't know Grapeshot had any other game. 

[Jean Lafitte 451]

2 minutes ago, Wh33ls said:

In both examples you state hire more people. I'm sorry to say that in the real world there is this thing called limited resources. So if they are going to hire more GM's to deal with your temporary problems they are also going to have to let go of the developers who are coding long term fixes. I myself prefer long term fixes that help everyone playing the game and not just short term fixes like give me my stuff and delete these rafts that help a few people. 

So, SteamSpy says there are between 1 and 2 million owners of Atlas. Damn, Wildcard/Grapeshot are broke and destitute! I did not know this. Perhaps I should leave now? Do you think they'll have enough money to pay the electric bill next month?

 

[boomervoncannon 1,541]

42 minutes ago, wildbill said:

I wonder what the current ratio of private to official is? I don't know how to find this number, so I have to guess that at least twice as many play private servers. We can assume that plan is provide enough official servers for the MMO version of the game, but that may not be how it actually will work. They don't make money from the servers, just from selling the game, so whatever sells the game would make the most sense for Grapeshot.

I think you need to look at this as what would a reasonable person expect. Lets call that reasonable person a well informed person. If you found the game in the first week, the chances are pretty high you played ARK. If you found it recently and started playing, you had to have seen the steam reviews.

So would a reasonable person knowing the reputation of ARK and having read the reviews expect that they would get good GM support in game? I don't see how.

Would everyone like good support? Sure. 

So what is this thread about? Just complaining about not having something no reasonable person would expect to get.

You could figure it out using Battlemetrics. For Ark the info was available at a glance, dunno if it is for Atlas.

That aside, I don’t think arguing that Ark’s CS was crap so we shouldn’t expect Atlas’s to be any different is something I wholeheardly agree with, particularly not when they claimed “to have learned so many lessons from Ark”  (for anyone keeping score at home, fully expect me to continue to beat GrapeCard over the head with that quote for as long as they continue to demonstrate it to be patently false.)

For the record, this is my approach: I expect companies I do business with to maintain reasonable professional standards. If they fail to, I will call them on it and hope and expect them to improve. This does not meanI won’t also retain a healthy skepticism of the notion they might magically suddenly turn over a new leaf.

[boomervoncannon 1,541]

7 minutes ago, Wh33ls said:

3 years of a top 10 game? Werid, didn't know Grapeshot had any other game. 

Are you really claiming to be unaware that the developers of Atlas are the developers of Ark?

Get real.

 

[Wh33ls 43]

3 minutes ago, Jean Lafitte said:

So, SteamSpy says there are between 1 and 2 million owners of Atlas. Damn, Wildcard/Grapeshot are broke and destitute! I did not know this. Perhaps I should leave now? Do you think they'll have enough money to pay the electric bill next month?

 

ok, so $50,000,000 / $160,000 ($80,000 per employee for 2 years) = 312.5 full time employees with no other operating expenses. 

 

Yeah, I'll take 200 GM's to go through the endless list of "i've lost my blah blah blah", reports. and have the company bankrupt in 2 years. 

Just now, boomervoncannon said:

Are you really claiming to be unaware that the developers of Atlas are the developers of Ark?

Get real.

 

Nope, I'm saying they are not going to use the profits made from Ark to provide support for Atlas. 

[Jean Lafitte 451]

2 minutes ago, Wh33ls said:

3 years of a top 10 game? Werid, didn't know Grapeshot had any other game. 

Do your research. It's all pretty obvious.

[Wh33ls 43]

Just now, Jean Lafitte said:

Do your research. It's all pretty obvious.

What the fact the founders of Wildcard split off to make a sister studio Grapeshot to make Atlas? Still doesn't change the fact, Atlas is Grapeshot's only game. 

[Jean Lafitte 451]

3 minutes ago, Wh33ls said:

ok, so $50,000,000 / $160,000 ($80,000 per employee for 2 years) = 312.5 full time employees with no other operating expenses. 

Umm, was that math supposed to prove your point that hiring GM's is not viable????

Shit, I better call my phone provider now and tell them to fire all of their customer support!

1 minute ago, Wh33ls said:

What the fact the founders of Wildcard split off to make a sister studio Grapeshot to make Atlas? Still doesn't change the fact, Atlas is Grapeshot's only game. 

Right, that's like saying the Chevrolet is Chevrolet's only make of car even though they're owned by GM.

[Wh33ls 43]

2 minutes ago, Jean Lafitte said:

Umm, was that math supposed to prove your point that hiring GM's is not viable????

Shit, I better call my phone provider now and tell them to fire all of their customer support!

Yup, I'd rather have game complete in 2 years, than you get your stuff back now. 

[wildbill 142]

1 minute ago, Jean Lafitte said:

Umm, was that math supposed to prove your point that hiring GM's is not viable????

Shit, I better call my phone provider now and tell them to fire all of their customer support!

You sound like a troll, although I suspect you are not with the 346 reputation points.

Keep throwing out analogies that are not even close to relevant. You get you 911 service (at least in the US) from your phone provider, if you get any type of critical service from a game, you are a fool.

You seem to know all about Grapeshot, but you buy the game and say you had no idea you would get bad customer support from them.

Maybe you are just ignoring the facts you don't like, as if maybe it is all "Fake News"?

[Notorious 67]

Continues to eat his popcorn ........

[Wh33ls 43]

1 minute ago, Notorious said:

Continues to eat his popcorn ........

Want some salt for your popcorn. I have been dehydrating all the tears I have been collecting from the "I want my stuff back" posters. 

[boomervoncannon 1,541]

3 minutes ago, Wh33ls said:

ok, so $50,000,000 / $160,000 ($80,000 per employee for 2 years) = 312.5 full time employees with no other operating expenses. 

 

Yeah, I'll take 200 GM's to go through the endless list of "i've lost my blah blah blah", reports. and have the company bankrupt in 2 years. 

Nope, I'm saying they are not going to use the profits made from Ark to provide support for Atlas. 

There is no legitimate reason not to expect a company to use profits from successful products to fund development of new products.it is standard practice across the business world. Part of funding the development of an MMO IS providing proper support for testing and development. If you don’t think Blizzard used profits from Warcraft to fund WoW’s development AND that part of that development cost wasn’t providing support during alpha and beta trials, then you are living in a dream world. 

And that was long before anybody paid for EA.

 

[madmartigan 38]

I'm sorry guys but I hate to break this to you.. They can't and won't afford more staff gm's because they have to keep paying for those slick costumes they wear during their live streams.. lol

[Wh33ls 43]

1 minute ago, boomervoncannon said:

There is no legitimate reason not to expect a company to use profits from successful products to fund development of new products.it is standard practice across the business world. Part of funding the development of an MMO IS providing proper support for testing and development. If you don’t think Blizzard used profits from Warcraft to fund WoW’s development AND that part of that development cost wasn’t providing support during alpha and beta trials, then you are living in a dream world. 

And that was long before anybody paid for EA.

 

No I agree, one company uses it's profits from one product to fund the development of another product, that's how a company grows organically. They have went to market, they are working on their own budget now. They are not going to steal from Ark to throw money at Atlas. 

[Jean Lafitte 451]

Just now, wildbill said:

You seem to know all about Grapeshot, but you buy the game and say you had no idea you would get bad customer support from them.

Maybe you are just ignoring the facts you don't like, as if maybe it is all "Fake News"?

And you're assuming I'm incapable of researching a company after I purchase a product?  Maybe I have expectations from a company when I purchase their product... like reasonable customer support. But it's kinda like expecting to have a logical debate on the forums with a reasonable person without them resorting to ad hominems. I guess that's not gonna happen either.

Oh, and for the record. I never said I lost anything and asked for it back. You assumed that too.

Since you've resorted to insults, I'm done with you now. Bye.

[Wh33ls 43]

16 minutes ago, Jean Lafitte said:

Umm, was that math supposed to prove your point that hiring GM's is not viable????

Shit, I better call my phone provider now and tell them to fire all of their customer support!

Right, that's like saying the Chevrolet is Chevrolet's only make of car even though they're owned by GM.

Last time I checked, Chevrolet did only make Chevrolet's, various models, but still all Chevrolet's. However, GM makes all sorts of brands. 

So Grapeshot made Atlas, Wildcard made Ark. But, here's the kicker, Snail Games made both. BOOM, wrap your mind around that. 

[boomervoncannon 1,541]

11 minutes ago, Wh33ls said:

What the fact the founders of Wildcard split off to make a sister studio Grapeshot to make Atlas? Still doesn't change the fact, Atlas is Grapeshot's only game. 

Yeah sorry, if you want to assert that Grapeshot and Wildcard have nothing to do with each other, you’re going to have to provide copies of GrapeShots balance sheets and prove that no capital funding came from Wildcard OR any of Wildcard’s venture capital backers AND prove that GrapeShots founders took no profits from Wildcard that weren’t then p,owed into Grapeshot. Since we both know you can’t do that, let’s just stick with the reality that no one outside knows for sure and the most reasonable assumption is to treat the two companies as one that is using a conversant legal fiction for business purposes.

Trying to pretend otherwise is hogwash especially given the fact they still retain decision making authority for Ark.

[Jean Lafitte 451]

Just now, Wh33ls said:

Last time I checked, Chevrolet did only make Chevrolet's, various models, but still all Chevrolet's. However, GM makes all sorts of brands. 

So Grapeshot made Atlas, Wildcard made Ark. But, here's the kicker, Snail Games made both. BOOM, wrap your mind around that. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_badge-engineered_vehicles

Atlas is a badge engineered Ark. Same code, different paint job, different name.  And yes, it's all 'made in China'.

[boomervoncannon 1,541]

10 minutes ago, Wh33ls said:

No I agree, one company uses it's profits from one product to fund the development of another product, that's how a company grows organically. They have went to market, they are working on their own budget now. They are not going to steal from Ark to throw money at Atlas. 

Since every other company is expected to operate this way I’m not sure why you think they should be some sort of exception.

[Wh33ls 43]

12 minutes ago, boomervoncannon said:

Yeah sorry, if you want to assert that Grapeshot and Wildcard have nothing to do with each other, you’re going to have to provide copies of GrapeShots balance sheets and prove that no capital funding came from Wildcard OR any of Wildcard’s venture capital backers AND prove that GrapeShots founders took no profits from Wildcard that weren’t then p,owed into Grapeshot. Since we both know you can’t do that, let’s just stick with the reality that no one outside knows for sure and the most reasonable assumption is to treat the two companies as one that is using a conversant legal fiction for business purposes.

Trying to pretend otherwise is hogwash especially given the fact they still retain decision making authority for Ark.

And if you are going to assert that they are tied, you are going to have to provide all the same information but in reverse. Since neither of use can provide proof of either, let us not make assumptions. 

Edited February 13, 2019 by Wh33ls

[Tiberius_theron 99]

I stopped reading Wh33ls comments early on once it became very clear they are just here trolling.

[Wh33ls 43]

1 minute ago, Tiberius_theron said:

I stopped reading Wh33ls comments early on once it became very clear they are just here trolling.

Again calling names. I have not once called anyone a name.