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vaylain

There is NO PVP in offline raiding so why is it allowed?

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Ark is a multi-player game with significantly less cost to keep the power on. This is an MMO with significantly bloody high costs to keep running. 

The two are not the same thing even if they look like it on the surface. 

You can be sure of one thing though. The hard-core PVP players are not going to have the numbers to make it worthwhile for Grapeshot Games to maintain the servers. This game needs players and in order to do that something needs to be done to attract players and you do not attract players by appealing to the hardcore. They are the minority. It's why there are so many more 'carebear roller coaster' MMO's versus HC Sandbox MMO's. Publishers follow the $$ and the money is in the masses. 

Go do some research on how Eve works, open your mind to the possibilities and then come back and tell us why you think it wont work in this game. That will be a discussion worth happening. Look at the depth of the game-play available versus what Atlas actually offers. 

All the Eve players I've seen are frothing at the mouth with the potential here and that should say something to the Dev's given they launched with the whole "We are taking a lot of inspiration from Eve" line. 

How many world wars have you had in Ark? They wrote a book about the Eve ones. 

Edited by Sklex

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Oh and to be clear. 

We are not recommending Eve's design because it's a care bear roller coaster MMO. 

It's about as hard-core as they come... but they made it work. They made it so the different demographics of players can co-exist and in doing so were successful. 

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1 minute ago, Sklex said:

Ark is a multi-player game with significantly less cost to keep the power on. This is an MMO with significantly bloody high costs to keep running. 

The two are not the same thing even if they look like it on the surface. 

You can be sure of one thing though. The hard-core PVP players are not going to have the numbers to make it worthwhile for Grapeshot Games to maintain the servers. This game needs players and in order to do that something needs to be done to attract players and you do not attract players by appealing to the hardcore. They are the minority. It's why there are so many more 'carebear roller coaster' MMO's versus HC Sandbox MMO's. Publishers follow the $$ and the money is in the masses. 

Go do some research on how Eve works, open your mind to the possibilities and then come back and tell us why you think it wont work in this game. That will be a discussion worth happening. 

All the Eve players I've seen are frothing at the mouth with the potential here and that should say something to the Dev's given they launched with the whole "We are taking a lot of inspiration from Eve" line. 

How many world wars have you had in Ark? They wrote a book about the Eve ones. 

This is not EVE. Just because the developers said they were inspired by it does not mean its going to be EVE 2.0 pirate version. And the reference to ark was about how they added content and it evolved into more as time passed. I did not mention anything about hardcore PVP.  Just stated that there are a ton of reason as to why the population has decreased.  And I could care less about EVE and the world wars lol. You say significantly less cost to keep ark running how so ? Last I knew Ark had way more offical servers than the ones combined on PVP and PVE for Atlas. 

3 minutes ago, Sklex said:

Oh and to be clear. 

We are not recommending Eve's design because it's a care bear roller coaster MMO. 

It's about as hard-core as they come... but they made it work. They made it so the different demographics of players can co-exist and in doing so were successful. 

If it was as " hard-core as they come " it wouldn't have any kind of offline raid protection.

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It could be though. It could be a hugely successful and thoroughly enjoyable experience for everyone. 

The very significant difference with Ark is they can turn servers on an off as the demand increases or lowers. That's not how Atlas works. If they turn off servers here they are directly impacting on the experience of everyone. 

In Eve you can transfer game-time. Effectively real hard earned money. And pirates they can blow up your ship and take that game-time and use it or sell it or loose it again.

Ever read about the guy who pulled of such a large scam that he made enough money to put a deposit down on a real house?

The point being that Eve creates PvP that people enjoy reading about. It creates PvP that people want to be part of. Can Atlas or Ark make similar claims?

Just because you can hit something when no one is there does not make it hard-core. 

 

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21 minutes ago, Sklex said:

It could be though. It could be a hugely successful and thoroughly enjoyable experience for everyone. 

The very significant difference with Ark is they can turn servers on an off as the demand increases or lowers. That's not how Atlas works. If they turn off servers here they are directly impacting on the experience of everyone. 

In Eve you can transfer game-time. Effectively real hard earned money. And pirates they can blow up your ship and take that game-time and use it or sell it or loose it again.

Ever read about the guy who pulled of such a large scam that he made enough money to put a deposit down on a real house?

The point being that Eve creates PvP that people enjoy reading about. It creates PvP that people want to be part of. Can Atlas or Ark make similar claims?

Just because you can hit something when no one is there does not make it hard-core. 

 

The game can still be hugely successful and not have to follow EVE footprints. Its still EA there is alot they can do and many ways to do it. And I'm sure there has been some epic battles and pvp in ark and even at this stage of Atlas which for the current population i would say is pretty good. Would I like it to grow of course but before that happens the devs need to put a ton of work in. Cant even have more than 50 people on a server without having massive lag atm. I picture hardcore as being no holds bar everything goes no form of protection as in PVE area where people can hide or an offline protection, which EVE has. 

Edited by labatts

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Eve does PvE in a special way. Even though it's safe it's really not safe. Here PvE means the game mechanics stop you from hitting each other. In Eve the Concord (aka police) stop you from hitting each other. Just like in real life where you can choose to break the law acknowledging that actions have consequences you can attack players in the High Sec areas. But as soon as you do your days are numbered. Concord come down on your like a bat outta hell. 

But... with the right amount of players and the right amount of logistics and resources... the players were able to prove that anything was possible. 

screenshot-2014-04-25-15-26-13.png

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1 minute ago, Sklex said:

Eve does PvE in a special way. Even though it's safe it's really not safe. Here PvE means the game mechanics stop you from hitting each other. In Eve the Concord (aka police) stop you from hitting each other. Just like in real life where you can choose to break the law acknowledging that actions have consequences you can attack players in the High Sec areas. But as soon as you do your days are numbered. Concord come down on your like a bat outta hell. 

But... with the right amount of players and the right amount of logistics and resources... the players were able to prove that anything was possible. 

screenshot-2014-04-25-15-26-13.png

I have no idea whats going on in this picture and i absolutely have no interest in it or EVE. 

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I was just watching on twitch how three guys and a couple of bears were destroying hundreds or even thousands of hours worth of work in EU D15 because there was nobody to defend against them. I don't know what they expect is gonna happen when those guys log in today after work and see all they've done the last month gone because they can't play at 9 am on a work day, but i bet most of them will quit.  This design is just stupid tbh.

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1 minute ago, znasser said:

I was just watching on twitch how three guys and a couple of bears were destroying hundreds or even thousands of hours worth of work in EU D15 because there was nobody to defend against them. I don't know what they expect is gonna happen when those guys log in today after work and see all they've done the last month gone because they can't play at 9 am on a work day, but i bet most of them will quit.  This design is just stupid tbh.

If you dont like it then leave and come back later one if they decide to fix it. 

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JITA is Eve's primary player hub. It's the primary location for trade and short of a small army of scammers, it's pretty much the primary PvE square. 

Months in the planning, Burn Jita involved a group of 1500+ player who built an army of 15,000 small single purpose suicide ships. They raided JITA. The largest most popular player hub managing to control the Concord retaliation and destroy thousands of players ships in the process. They disrupted trade to the area for a couple of days and according to some manipulated the market in order to turn a tidy profit. 

We are talking about a situation where they would shoot and the police would zoom in and insta-pop them. And they still managed to maintain the numbers and the resources to keep the attack up for days. 

Even if you don't care about Eve... you gotta admit... that's pretty cool for a completely player driven event. 

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13 minutes ago, labatts said:

If you dont like it then leave and come back later one if they decide to fix it. 

I can hardly find a more fanboyish answer to a legitimate complain about game design.  

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1 minute ago, znasser said:

I can hardly find a more fanboyish answer to a legitimate complain about game design.  

And??? So what i'm a fanboy whats wrong with that. I really enjoy the game and the mechanics well most of them the melee combat weapons combat is a little wonky. But over time hopefully it gets adjusted for the better. You say its broken i say its fine. 

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On 2/2/2019 at 11:41 PM, vaylain said:

It is not a limit on your offline griefing as that is what it is, "offline Griefing" this is not PVP. We request an offline flag to protect our crap from people like you who places their "FUN" value on being able to raid a base or boat where their owners are not online to defend it. Simply raid something where their owners are online and able to defend. It does not detract anything from you, just learn to play better and actually fight or raid players that are actually online where you will actually have a real PVP challenge.

While I have been having fun in game, I see you are still forum warrioring.

As already stated, this game is not about scheduling an appointment to make certain someone is not offline when you show up to raid nor is it about sitting on their doorstep waiting to see if they are busy raiding someone else or sailing before you begin your assault of their base. Your mindset is so pve that I still think one of the pve servers would best fit your playstyle. Well, unless your 'fun rules' involves having something to constantly whine about on the forums, then I see the pvp server being a good fit for you. 

Some of your definitions certainly differ from mine. For example, griefing to me is not playing the game according to the mechanics and raiding a base. Griefing tends to involve someone going out of their way to annoy someone and it often involves repeat behavior. In this situation, offline griefing to me would be someone that attacks your base nightly not allowing you time to rebuild when there is little reward (materials) to gain. Now.... if there is a set purpose in this action such as you attempting to establish in a territory of this other company then even the term 'griefing' here might be subjective as not allowing you a foothold might just be a good defense strategy in this SURVIVAL game. 

Someone that has a different play schedule (for whatever reason, time zone, work schedule ect) that doesn't bother to schedule an appointment to make sure you are home to raid your base is certainly a player vs player (PVP) action as they are not attacking an NPC camp/base nor are you being raided by an NPC company. You need to think outside the context of a player vs player 'fight' where two people are actively engaged in combat. You were raided by another player, not an NPC. 

As I can tell you are someone that simply wants to twist for purpose of arguing (your statement that 'I' place my fun value on raiding offline when I already stated my company does NOT go out of our way to raid someone offline), I have little doubt that you will see anyone's point but your own as you appear to have a very biased visible agenda. 

 

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11 hours ago, Itsme said:

While I have been having fun in game, I see you are still forum warrioring.

As already stated, this game is not about scheduling an appointment to make certain someone is not offline when you show up to raid nor is it about sitting on their doorstep waiting to see if they are busy raiding someone else or sailing before you begin your assault of their base. Your mindset is so pve that I still think one of the pve servers would best fit your playstyle. Well, unless your 'fun rules' involves having something to constantly whine about on the forums, then I see the pvp server being a good fit for you. 

Some of your definitions certainly differ from mine. For example, griefing to me is not playing the game according to the mechanics and raiding a base. Griefing tends to involve someone going out of their way to annoy someone and it often involves repeat behavior. In this situation, offline griefing to me would be someone that attacks your base nightly not allowing you time to rebuild when there is little reward (materials) to gain. Now.... if there is a set purpose in this action such as you attempting to establish in a territory of this other company then even the term 'griefing' here might be subjective as not allowing you a foothold might just be a good defense strategy in this SURVIVAL game. 

Someone that has a different play schedule (for whatever reason, time zone, work schedule ect) that doesn't bother to schedule an appointment to make sure you are home to raid your base is certainly a player vs player (PVP) action as they are not attacking an NPC camp/base nor are you being raided by an NPC company. You need to think outside the context of a player vs player 'fight' where two people are actively engaged in combat. You were raided by another player, not an NPC. 

As I can tell you are someone that simply wants to twist for purpose of arguing (your statement that 'I' place my fun value on raiding offline when I already stated my company does NOT go out of our way to raid someone offline), I have little doubt that you will see anyone's point but your own as you appear to have a very biased visible agenda. 

 

No doubt he is one of those folks that eventually gives up on Official servers and scurries off to set up his own private unofficial "PVP" server with quaint rules like "you must declare war on your enemy before attacking" and "don't do excessive damage to their base when raiding". Oh and if you beat him too often you'll login in the next day to find yourself banned for unspecified rules...

Edited by Bullet Force
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In first time, everybody must admit one thing, land claiming is feature for big company and it's faction creation feature, but for limit the expansion the dev must implement a tax system ( 500 gold per flag and per day for exemple).

Second time, the dev must implement a trade system everywhere and not just at the freeport, and if you have a shop in a land claim you pay a tax in place on this land, this create a coop between largest company and small trad company and farmer. with this big company need a small company for his expansion.

For the small company who can fight and who don't want land claiming, they can become a pirate, they can hunt and sink the trade boat, the big company can pay them for join a war, or just they can go in war and sink everybody, they can play like a pirate and not like a king. For safe their boat they can pay at a freeport (2000 gold for 10 hours for exemple), after this time their boat decay.

With this suggestion you must gather pve and pvp server

(Sorry for my englih)

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Introduce a company primetime. Every company has to set a daily 8-12h (number tweaks yay) window where their stuff is raidable. Only works for land claims and structures placed on them, no ship protection, no claim protection. If you dont have a sleeper or npc in your claim area and someone claims it outside your window, you deserve it. 

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On 2/4/2019 at 11:54 AM, Rovalis said:

So, it's pretty apparent here that you're so vehemently defending the tried and true offline base-raid because you benefit from it. Lets take a step back and look at this objectively because you clearly lack the ability to empathize with others who aren't as fortunate as yourself. And while I'm still on that point, to take that a little bit further... you're just spewing libertarian jargon into a video game.

The first line of your post, all assumption ignoring the reasons I have previously stated for defending, and the last line of that first paragraph which slings a very incorrect political title at me, shows your true hand so I will not waste my time addressing all your tainted spew, just the couple points in this first paragraph before I stopped reading.  And as an fyi- there are very few posts I literally stop reading without finishing but past experience has demonstrated that discussions with people that begin their posts ignoring your previous points while throwing incorrect political labels out are never productive conversations so I do not waste my time on them.  

As already stated, my company does not go out of it's way to offline raid but at the same time, we do not do global shout-outs to pencil a raid appointment on everyone's calendar, especially if this is a retaliatory action. No, I am not vehemently defending offline base raiding simply because I benefit from it, I am defending it as this is a survival game and not every company has matching work schedules or time zones to know what day or time to raid someone nor should they. This is a pvp pirate survival game where the devs (with forethought) intentionally set up the game mechanics to allow raiding at all times so if this is not your cup of tea, they also set up pve servers where you are protected from raiding. 

As with most survival games, surprise is often an element of a successful battle so announcing to your enemies your are coming and waiting until they have all their players online to raid is more of a pve mindset, not a pvp pirate survival game mindset. Even if the devs would give in to the pve wanna be pvp player's whining demands and change this, it will never be enough as next there will be demands that 99.9% of all people would need to be online or whatever the next ridiculous demand will be. 

Regarding my lack of 'empathy', again, this is a pirate pvp survival game not a Dr Phil episode with an abused spouse as the main guest. And regarding those less fortunate than myself, anyone can do what I did, start out solo and if that plan is not working, adapt and make or join a company. Oh wait.... spoon fed entitled snowflake people do not have this capability as they are too busy making 'woe is me' posts insisting survival games be changed to their demands rather than adapting to the game like I did. 

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5 hours ago, Searven said:

Introduce a company primetime. Every company has to set a daily 8-12h (number tweaks yay) window where their stuff is raidable. Only works for land claims and structures placed on them, no ship protection, no claim protection. If you dont have a sleeper or npc in your claim area and someone claims it outside your window, you deserve it. 

Stop with this stupid daily raid timer. It will completely ruin the 24/7 pvp we have now.

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This discussion is really about maintaining a solid player base with new players having the capability to survive and grow, at present the game lacks on main that and people are expressing this in vast numbers to try to assist. I personally like the game but in its present form i believe the main servers will die a horrible death, everything should be attackable at any time, i do not disagree with that, just some things should have more protection given what is at stake, and what is at stake is not res/ships/bases etc it is the player base that is at stake, making a game a relentless grind/reset/grind/reset at the start appeals to a few but not many. defences are poor and easily overcome. Again, new players go to lawless where someone can park a cannon with great ease at their doorstep and obliterate them. who are on lawless? new players mostly as it is designed that way as the large companies spam flags everywhere else(there should be a cost to this as well to deter it, or something especially if they can then gain tax from those said flags). perhaps it gets collected(tax from flag count) and put into a massive ghost ship on a monthly basis that everyone can hunt or something. would encourage some water activity and a few wars on water, everyone chasing the same thing..oh wait..that happens now in the form of the fountain but not on water eh.. hmmz nevermind.. 

There is also an unhealthy reference to ARK here in responses, ARK was land based, this should not be that. I think a lot of players still think like that in relation to this game which will doom it. Beat the ARK out of it, not about bases, its about ships first.

My last post here for a bit, i do hope you resolve the issues devs, good luck!

Edited by Dosomething
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3 hours ago, Dosomething said:

This discussion is really about maintaining a solid player base with new players having the capability to survive and grow, at present the game lacks on main that and people are expressing this in vast numbers to try to assist. I personally like the game but in its present form i believe the main servers will die a horrible death, everything should be attackable at any time, i do not disagree with that, just some things should have more protection given what is at stake, and what is at stake is not res/ships/bases etc it is the player base that is at stake, making a game a relentless grind/reset/grind/reset at the start appeals to a few but not many. defences are poor and easily overcome. Again, new players go to lawless where someone can park a cannon with great ease at their doorstep and obliterate them. who are on lawless? new players mostly as it is designed that way as the large companies spam flags everywhere else(there should be a cost to this as well to deter it, or something especially if they can then gain tax from those said flags). perhaps it gets collected(tax from flag count) and put into a massive ghost ship on a monthly basis that everyone can hunt or something. would encourage some water activity and a few wars on water, everyone chasing the same thing..oh wait..that happens now in the form of the fountain but not on water eh.. hmmz nevermind.. 

There is also an unhealthy reference to ARK here in responses, ARK was land based, this should not be that. I think a lot of players still think like that in relation to this game which will doom it. Beat the ARK out of it, not about bases, its about ships first.

My last post here for a bit, i do hope you resolve the issues devs, good luck!

I do like your post only part I would disagree with is when you say it should not be land based i believe it should be 50/50 land, sea. Also The SOTD should only have like 2 per server at a time with way more loot. This creates a hotspot for ship PVP and would actually make the SOTD worth fighting in my opinion. There should be some kind of upkeep or overall tax on land claims to stop people form claiming entire islands / servers. Also maybe even getting rid of Fast travel to a certain point and make ships little faster would also encourage more ships out on the sea which could also mean more PVP. 

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4 hours ago, Dosomething said:

This discussion is really about maintaining a solid player base with new players having the capability to survive and grow, at present the game lacks on main that and people are expressing this in vast numbers to try to assist. I personally like the game but in its present form i believe the main servers will die a horrible death, everything should be attackable at any time, i do not disagree with that, just some things should have more protection given what is at stake, and what is at stake is not res/ships/bases etc it is the player base that is at stake, making a game a relentless grind/reset/grind/reset at the start appeals to a few but not many. defences are poor and easily overcome. Again, new players go to lawless where someone can park a cannon with great ease at their doorstep and obliterate them. who are on lawless? new players mostly as it is designed that way as the large companies spam flags everywhere else(there should be a cost to this as well to deter it, or something especially if they can then gain tax from those said flags). perhaps it gets collected(tax from flag count) and put into a massive ghost ship on a monthly basis that everyone can hunt or something. would encourage some water activity and a few wars on water, everyone chasing the same thing..oh wait..that happens now in the form of the fountain but not on water eh.. hmmz nevermind.. 

There is also an unhealthy reference to ARK here in responses, ARK was land based, this should not be that. I think a lot of players still think like that in relation to this game which will doom it. Beat the ARK out of it, not about bases, its about ships first.

My last post here for a bit, i do hope you resolve the issues devs, good luck!

I believe this game has a lot in common with ARK. I played ARK profusely every freaking day for 2years. This game has its uniqueness as well and that is fun but the part I most despise about this game is the sea/sailing. I abhor that aspect as it is extremely boring, arduous, and time-consuming. I prefer the build and tame aspect on land. I hated the caustic mentality on ARK where peeps use broken dinos and feel that they have to raid every single structure.

So far, I am NOT seeing this on Atlas and I love it for that. It is the fact that this game has survival, building, taming, and ARK controls that brought me over to Atlas but your comment that this game should not be about land and focus only on the sea is bullcrap. If they made it that way, I would certainly have to leave. Just because it has sailing and pirates does not make it 100% about the sea. The land was a very big deal for the pirate scene as well. I'd say it should be at least 50/50 for land and sea as their focus. Remember, Pirates need land zones to recoup and resupply.

Edited by vaylain

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On 2/9/2019 at 4:08 PM, Itsme said:

The first line of your post, all assumption ignoring the reasons I have previously stated for defending, and the last line of that first paragraph which slings a very incorrect political title at me, shows your true hand so I will not waste my time addressing all your tainted spew, just the couple points in this first paragraph before I stopped reading.  And as an fyi- there are very few posts I literally stop reading without finishing but past experience has demonstrated that discussions with people that begin their posts ignoring your previous points while throwing incorrect political labels out are never productive conversations so I do not waste my time on them.  

As already stated, my company does not go out of it's way to offline raid but at the same time, we do not do global shout-outs to pencil a raid appointment on everyone's calendar, especially if this is a retaliatory action. No, I am not vehemently defending offline base raiding simply because I benefit from it, I am defending it as this is a survival game and not every company has matching work schedules or time zones to know what day or time to raid someone nor should they. This is a pvp pirate survival game where the devs (with forethought) intentionally set up the game mechanics to allow raiding at all times so if this is not your cup of tea, they also set up pve servers where you are protected from raiding. 

As with most survival games, surprise is often an element of a successful battle so announcing to your enemies your are coming and waiting until they have all their players online to raid is more of a pve mindset, not a pvp pirate survival game mindset. Even if the devs would give in to the pve wanna be pvp player's whining demands and change this, it will never be enough as next there will be demands that 99.9% of all people would need to be online or whatever the next ridiculous demand will be. 

Regarding my lack of 'empathy', again, this is a pirate pvp survival game not a Dr Phil episode with an abused spouse as the main guest. And regarding those less fortunate than myself, anyone can do what I did, start out solo and if that plan is not working, adapt and make or join a company. Oh wait.... spoon fed entitled snowflake people do not have this capability as they are too busy making 'woe is me' posts insisting survival games be changed to their demands rather than adapting to the game like I did. 

All that wall of text. U could just write 'I don't want to raid online because its too hard'. Simple enough, "PvP" master 😉

And about "u don't like it go play pve". Man, are u able to understand there are people who want actual PvP like ship fights, online raiding where there are both defenders and attackers? 

Its early access, the game will be polished according to majority of players. And majority of players doesn't like the fact there is NO way how to defend you ships while offline. Like u know, those ships which this game should be about. Now it takes about 5 cannon balls from a csnnon bear (which don't have an offline counter) to sink your ship while offline. Wow, so pro, such PvP. 

They either have to put something in game which makes it much harder to sink your ships/raid you base while offline or their population will be extremely low. Simple as that. And it's not because those players are bad at PvP but because od the fact they don't play 24/7 and they don't want to put their time in something which is gone during offline time without being able to do anything.

Rn the game is not about pvp, it's about being online during night tim÷e 😉

Edited by Willard

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8 hours ago, Willard said:

All that wall of text. U could just write 'I don't want to raid online because its too hard'. Simple enough, "PvP" master 😉

 

Another poster that comes in ignoring what someone has already clearly stated multiple times on this forum stating the opposite of the poster's actual preference. As such, you get a response to this first sentence only as I stopped reading here rather than following you down the delusive twisting rabbit's hole.  

I have already stated multiple times that my company does not go out of our way to offline raid (it's even in the segment you quoted for your spew) but we also do not do global shouts-outs to see if everyone is home and pencil in a raid on someone's calendar.  My company is made up of adults that work and raid in what many (not all) would consider the 'prime' time.  If you wanted to know my 'preference' for offline or online raiding, you could have simply asked. As a true PVPr, I (and my entire company) will always prefer a battle when all sides are actively playing, always. Now go scuttle away and ignore the next poster's statements/stance and twist things until it fits your biased agenda. 

Edited by Itsme

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37 minutes ago, Itsme said:

Another poster that comes in ignoring what someone has already clearly stated multiple times on this forum stating the opposite of the poster's actual preference. As such, you get a response to this first sentence only as I stopped reading here rather than following you down the delusive twisting rabbit's hole.  

I have already stated multiple times that my company does not go out of our way to offline raid (it's even in the segment you quoted for your spew) but we also do not do global shouts-outs to see if everyone is home and pencil in a raid on someone's calendar.  My company is made up of adults that work and raid in what many (not all) would consider the 'prime' time.  If you wanted to know my 'preference' for offline or online raiding, you could have simply asked. As a true PVPr, I (and my entire company) will always prefer a battle when all sides are actively playing, always. Now go scuttle away and ignore the next poster's statements/stance and twist things until it fits your biased agenda. 

Offline raiding will be the end of this game. People will stop playing without ways to defend their offline base. Simple as that. 

Edited by Willard

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11 hours ago, Willard said:

Offline raiding will be the end of this game. People will stop playing without ways to defend their offline base. Simple as that. 

I disagree there are way to many other issues wrong with this game. Bugs, exploits, hacks, and the list goes on. 

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