Mixed PVP/PVE Official servers replacing lawless zones.

[Chucksteak 279]

20 hours ago, Winter Thorne said:

No need to be rip people about something that's just a personal preference, Chuck.  Nobody's cry cry crying over anything.  But it's like anything else, if it's not the game I want, why would I play it?  If I hated fish I wouldn't go to a sushi restaurant.  Crying has nothing to do with it.

Re. predictable AI - that shouldn't have as much to do with anything as it does anyway, in a sandbox game.  Some people's idea of "content" is just different shaped things to hit with a stick.  Pretty boring.  I'm not here to run around hitting things with sticks.

I wasnt ripping anyone. I was just saying what happens, or would happen. If they merged the 2 together, you and many other PvE players would likely come on here to let us know how you feel about it then quit. That's all I was saying. 

If theres no people to compete against,  then you are left with AI. Absent that you are left with an UR4 powered minecraft. Hell, even with PvP thats kinda what it feels like most of the time.

[Winter Thorne 696]

1 hour ago, Chucksteak said:

If theres no people to compete against,  then you are left with AI. Absent that you are left with an UR4 powered minecraft. Hell, even with PvP thats kinda what it feels like most of the time.

Well, that's the thing, really.  I don't know why so many game dev companies don't understand that pve needs player competition as much as pvp does.  It's just a different kind of competition - economic, social, political (if anyone would even try doing political systems)...there's a whole bunch of ways to go about it.

[Komby 2]

I wish there was actual PVP, not offline raiding and killing your defenseless tames

[Realist 504]

23 minutes ago, Komby said:

I wish there was actual PVP, not offline raiding and killing your defenseless tames

You can take atlas out of ark but you can’t take the ark out of atlas

[Chucksteak 279]

On 10/26/2019 at 2:20 PM, Komby said:

I wish there was actual PVP, not offline raiding and killing your defenseless tames

Its just a different kind of PvP. At this point I have come to the conclusion that this is in fact the way the game was intended to be played. A pirate would definitely raid you in the dark of night if given the choice. The game promotes offline raiding and gives no incentives what so ever to actually fight someone on thier terms.

It will definitely drive people away, we already know this. 

I still maintain we need ships invulnerable while anchored as a start to ever maintaining population on servers.

[dirt916@ymail.com 1]

13 hours ago, Chucksteak said:

Its just a different kind of PvP. At this point I have come to the conclusion that this is in fact the way the game was intended to be played. A pirate would definitely raid you in the dark of night if given the choice. The game promotes offline raiding and gives no incentives what so ever to actually fight someone on thier terms.

It will definitely drive people away, we already know this. 

I still maintain we need ships invulnerable while anchored as a start to ever maintaining population on 

No ship raiding while docked would bring more ship battles to game. Yet I would add that a ship should only be none raidable once docked for 24hs that way no one just leaves ships dock for ever to store suplys then a cool down time of like 12 divided by time docked so that way the ship has to move so often. 

Edited October 29, 2019 by dirt916@ymail.com

[Redrick 14]

On 1/30/2019 at 9:42 PM, Talono said:

Very nice concept, very similar to EVE. I hope that they will consider such a server, but i am afraid that they wont as logical stuff is not on their list.

Miss about Eve online consept too

[Chucksteak 279]

7 hours ago, dirt916@ymail.com said:

No ship raiding while docked would bring more ship battles to game. Yet I would add that a ship should only be none raidable once docked for 24hs that way no one just leaves ships dock for ever to store suplys then a cool down time of like 12 divided by time docked so that way the ship has to move so often. 

24 minutes maybe tops.

Look, we should be accepting and ok with people having a space to save things in that we know will still be there when we return. It's not like you have unlimited weight on a ship, so you cant stock it up like a base.

The #1 reason people quit, and will continue to do so, is becuase it sucks dick to rebuild everything  every other time you log in. If my base is raided, it kinda sucks, but at least the structure remains. When my ship is sunk....every time I'm like fuck it, I just wont build one. Tooooo easy to sink compared to the time and effort to build another.

Everything disappears if your logged out to long. That solves that issue.

[dirt916@ymail.com 1]

no 24 min too short and yes you could  spam many ships. your ship would be able to be docked for 24 hours wile protected might have worded it wrong then12 divided by timed docked means that ships has to be on water at least two hours a day. This still gives people a chance to grief those players only online once or twice a week or any one that forgets there ships timer. while still giving the average decanted player the ability to keep a ship or two from being sunk with no contest. this is a pvp we cant give anyone a permeant safe zone no mater how insignificant anyone may think it is. things all ready fall apart or despair over time. the game still needs griefer doing there thing to keep the sever from being over  crowded  with abended ship. if your a solo player then two hours a day to keep your ship from being offline raided isn't to much to ask and if you have a small company of 5-6 then you all together could easily keep a few from that fait. this time of Couse could be adjusted abet but the idea is not to take anything from the game but to force more ships into the open oceans and to allow for the sever to have more ship running around the map leading to ship battles. this is to allow a pirate type of company's to survive on a ship with some rum and the lure of gold only to stop to refuel before setting sail again. you know the prates that leave island battles to those land love types.

Edited October 30, 2019 by dirt916@ymail.com

[Realist 504]

4 hours ago, dirt916@ymail.com said:

no 24 min too short and yes you could  spam many ships. your ship would be able to be docked for 24 hours wile protected might have worded it wrong then12 divided by timed docked means that ships has to be on water at least two hours a day. This still gives people a chance to grief those players only online once or twice a week or any one that forgets there ships timer. while still giving the average decanted player the ability to keep a ship or two from being sunk with no contest. this is a pvp we cant give anyone a permeant safe zone no mater how insignificant anyone may think it is. things all ready fall apart or despair over time. the game still needs griefer doing there thing to keep the sever from being over  crowded  with abended ship. if your a solo player then two hours a day to keep your ship from being offline raided isn't to much to ask and if you have a small company of 5-6 then you all together could easily keep a few from that fait. this time of Couse could be adjusted abet but the idea is not to take anything from the game but to force more ships into the open oceans and to allow for the sever to have more ship running around the map leading to ship battles. this is to allow a pirate type of company's to survive on a ship with some rum and the lure of gold only to stop to refuel before setting sail again. you know the prates that leave island battles to those land love types.

Make bases invulnerable but ships not. That way the PvP stays on the water and people can still be able to build more ships because they will be able to.

base wiping is actually the main thing that makes atlas still very much ark. Which it still is. It just has some different aspects but the gameplay or pvp itself is ark.

[Chucksteak 279]

7 hours ago, dirt916@ymail.com said:

no 24 min too short and yes you could  spam many ships. your ship would be able to be docked for 24 hours wile protected might have worded it wrong then12 divided by timed docked means that ships has to be on water at least two hours a day. This still gives people a chance to grief those players only online once or twice a week or any one that forgets there ships timer. while still giving the average decanted player the ability to keep a ship or two from being sunk with no contest. this is a pvp we cant give anyone a permeant safe zone no mater how insignificant anyone may think it is. things all ready fall apart or despair over time. the game still needs griefer doing there thing to keep the sever from being over  crowded  with abended ship. if your a solo player then two hours a day to keep your ship from being offline raided isn't to much to ask and if you have a small company of 5-6 then you all together could easily keep a few from that fait. this time of Couse could be adjusted abet but the idea is not to take anything from the game but to force more ships into the open oceans and to allow for the sever to have more ship running around the map leading to ship battles. this is to allow a pirate type of company's to survive on a ship with some rum and the lure of gold only to stop to refuel before setting sail again. you know the prates that leave island battles to those land love types.

2 hours a day, every day. Thsts insane and would do nothing. You just conceded another incentive for bigger companies at the expense of the solo player. That's the opposite direction.

What is the problem if someone has a ship that is still there when they loggin? What exactly does that take away from the game? It's still uber squishy once it sets sail. And it still cant hold hardly anything, especially compared to a base. 

You know why sea of thieves is so enjoyable? Becuase I loggin andy ship is right there waiting tonset sail. I lose and it gets sunk, I die and another ship is right there waiting to sail.

With the time sink of building, then leveling our ships, they will have to implement something like this before release. 

[Chucksteak 279]

2 hours ago, Realist said:

Make bases invulnerable but ships not. That way the PvP stays on the water and people can still be able to build more ships because they will be able to.

base wiping is actually the main thing that makes atlas still very much ark. Which it still is. It just has some different aspects but the gameplay or pvp itself is ark.

You can't make bases invulnerable. 

The good part of what you want here is that you eliminated the need for base NPCs, and that's awesome.

But you killed off raiding, and islands are now perma residencies for people who simply loggin. Effectively making the PvP server mostly PvE. The game is designed around raiding and PvP.

The ships invulnerability is only while they are anchored. And does not apply to persons ON the ship, although by default it would protect those IN the ship if it were sealed.

The goal is to encourage sea activity, player velocity and player retention.

Why does a person not sail?

Becuase their ship was destroyed in 5 sec while anchored while they did RL stuff.

Why does a person not travel very far?

Becuase thier boat will get sunk in 5 sec while they are in RL if not at a super secure base that may or may not protect them. By default this halfs your travel distance.

Why does a player quit?

Becuase they have nothing to play with when they loggin. Their base AND ship were destroyed while they were in RL.

What could a player do if his boat WAS his/her base? They could travel the atlas and be a pirate everytime they loggin.

-CS

[Realist 504]

3 hours ago, Chucksteak said:

You can't make bases invulnerable. 

The good part of what you want here is that you eliminated the need for base NPCs, and that's awesome.

But you killed off raiding, and islands are now perma residencies for people who simply loggin. Effectively making the PvP server mostly PvE. The game is designed around raiding and PvP.

The ships invulnerability is only while they are anchored. And does not apply to persons ON the ship, although by default it would protect those IN the ship if it were sealed.

The goal is to encourage sea activity, player velocity and player retention.

Why does a person not sail?

Becuase their ship was destroyed in 5 sec while anchored while they did RL stuff.

Why does a person not travel very far?

Becuase thier boat will get sunk in 5 sec while they are in RL if not at a super secure base that may or may not protect them. By default this halfs your travel distance.

Why does a player quit?

Becuase they have nothing to play with when they loggin. Their base AND ship were destroyed while they were in RL.

What could a player do if his boat WAS his/her base? They could travel the atlas and be a pirate everytime they loggin.

-CS

That’s all fine. But just like an anchored ship there should be offline raiding protection for bases as well. When people aren’t online it isn’t pvp it is pvb(base). The way it is right now is definitely not pvp.

sure people would say that other people would abuse it. Who cares if they abuse it, it would keep people playing and force them to actually pvp and not be cowards.

[Gemini Five 41]

What I didn't see here about the Eve model ( I was there for about 15 years) once they dropped the punishment in high sec, and for the most part allowed high sec ganking (pvp) it killed the high sec population. And even though some went to low or null, many just quit and Eve's total population started to decline. In the first few years Eve had a robust high sec, never again after that. 

I think the same would happen here. It would be fun at first then many would grow tired of it. And those only wanting pve would be the first out the door.

Take a hint from the big games like WoW, leave the pve'er to their own pvp free world.

[Chucksteak 279]

3 hours ago, Realist said:

That’s all fine. But just like an anchored ship there should be offline raiding protection for bases as well. When people aren’t online it isn’t pvp it is pvb(base). The way it is right now is definitely not pvp.

sure people would say that other people would abuse it. Who cares if they abuse it, it would keep people playing and force them to actually pvp and not be cowards.

I've put some deal of thought into this. 

The first problem is that I think you inverted Ark. By that I mean, instead of spamming servers to force your way in for PvP, terrible meta btw, you will have companies force logging out. I like how it is actually an incentive to be a small group or solo, but super easy to cheese either way. Why would I PvP with a raider if I have a garuntee to win by not playing? Now were back to playing PvE in a game designed for PvP.

I think the attack window was a move in the right direction. Although more thought needs put into it.

The boat is different becuase it is effectively useless when anchored,  vs a base that is always usefull.

The second problem, is what I have come to realize about this game. Sadly, I believe the offline raiding is the intended meta. Nerfed with the attack windows but not removed at all. It is the most rewarding thing you can do in game. By that I mean,  it is the biggest reward for the least amount of effort. With a few minutes of crafting gernades, I can get all of your stored stuff. The math is completely lopsided in the attackers favor to further my point that it is intended. To fix it would require some dramatic adjustments, maybe reduce dmg taken by stone walls by 90% or something.

Lastly, I have come to realize, through getting raided a plenty, that if done correctly the largest part of your investment is in the structure itself. You will lose your mats, but you likely have 10s or 100s or 1000s of times that amount you lost invested in your structure.

[Whitehawk 382]

The only way pve/pvp ever seems to work is on a challenge only basis. By that I mean an instant ship to ship challenge or an instant duelling challenge. That way if you play passive you just ignore the challenge towards you. I've seen this method work before. As for bases then you'd challenge them the same way but it can only be accepted by a company owner or admin.

[DocHolliday 366]

I have to ask permission to pirate?  F that. 

[Whitehawk 382]

I have to fight pyrates that are armed with torpedoes and submarines and giant crabs? damn that.

[The D Legacy 191]

On 1/30/2019 at 7:27 PM, Shakarian said:

Having the PVE zone around the middle zones allows easy movement to PVP areas where certain resources are needed, without having to extend themselves too far into hostile territory, plus not many PVP players are just kos, so the danger risk of quick resource trips is actually pretty low. 

so you want to pvp but also avoid pvp at your convenience? dunno man sounds like a griefers paradise if you ask me, and as someone who lived 700 hrs on lawless if that was implemented i would probably quit the game (even considering i have already quit rofl) i rly dont understand the obssesion of pvp-ers with wanting to force pve-ers into the same server, if pvp-ers were not dickheads having 2 different server types wouldnt even be necessary to begin with. so ty, but o ty.

Edited November 2, 2019 by The D Legacy

[dirt916@ymail.com 1]

So let's recap it seems to main problems is keeping ships safe while we do this thing we all have to do it called sleeping and I don't work. Lol 

Secode issue is that base building take far to much time and resources to be leveled by a player that may only need  a quarter the time to destroy it.

I think we can all agree on that 

Solutions 

1.  a off line raiding timer on ships 24 hr that a ship can stay safe. 12÷ every hour docked.

My Opinions- ofcourse I'm bias to this one yet I think good idea to help player have chance to keep ship safe while afk. We did have someone mention 2 hours a day of play was to much well if that's to much then I'm not ganna sweat it if you quick the game lol. 

Solution 2.

Unraiadable bases 

My Opinions- I hope your saying offline protections or I read that wrong if you want a base unraidable go pve they can still atack other ships offline base timer not against it but dont think its necessary. 

Solution 3

pve zones.

Not a bad idea yet let's not do the whole middle of map that's to much or force pve to join. Have you seen pve maps way to over crowded. And they dont want to do pvp leave them be. Let's keep lawless let's just turn a few squares around the map into pvp areas like a pirates cove little resources like free port no building there thoe. Love the thought of haveing a npc town where we could put up bounty and a safe place to trade and buy ships among all the chaos would be nice have to have timer of how long you can stay like 18 hr. Or something. With a ship limit per player

Solution 4

Reajusting base defences and atacking capabilities of players 

My Opinions- yes for sure needs tweaking back and forth tell right.

Solution 5 haveing to ask for a ship battle come on.

My Opinions-  "Hay you there in the ship can I please shoot at you and take all your loot" pirates politely asked the passing ship. Lol really now

Edited November 3, 2019 by dirt916@ymail.com