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RyuujinZERO

ATLAS as an MMO, and MMO balance/progression

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ATLAS describes itself as an MMO; it's right there on it's store page:

kiU0KX1.jpg

 

This leads to a lot of people defending the game's current structure as being ok, and that solo players/micro-companies shouldn't be able to play or to even just leave; because it's an MMO and therefore is solely about working together with other players.

I intend to demonstrate why this view is inherently wrong in proven MMO models.

 

 

It's true MMO's allow players to work together; or against each other, on an unprecedented scale. World of Warcraft, EVE, Guild Wars 2, Final Fantasy 14, Elder Scrolls Online, etc etc etc. These are examples of financially successful and stable MMOs, and they all have something in common; they're about 90% solo PvE content. Epic raids in conventional MMOs like WoW, or EVE's thousand-man wars between mega-orgs, or it's emergent territory control might be what they are most famous for, but that is actually a tiny fraction of what they offer and why players, you know, play

Most of your time in WoW or Final Fantasy 14 is more likely to be spent doing solo story quests, leveling, exploring, unlocking content. Even in EVE, for the typical casual player they're probably going to be in low-sec doing safe trade runs, mining or taking NPC mission contracts, this isn't accidental, because this is those games 'resource gathering' phase, where you get the tools, resources, levels and experience needed to tackle the harder content. Then, when your schedule and preferences allow, you get together with friends or strangers and you do the group content; dungeons, raids whatever, and achieve the next level of progression; raid gear, titles etc.

 

 

The point I'm getting at, is that everything in ATLAS is over-tuned and lacks progression. When you land on a beach you don't encounter a wolf, who deals 10-20% damage a hit, you encounter a dozen wolves, each of who can kill a fully armoured and armed player dead very easily; and who can three-shot a player armed with a spear and cloth armour; not to mention the frequent alphas who you need advanced weapons to have any hope of taking down even as a group. When you go to sea, you don't encounter undead scout-ships that a sloop with a cannon has a fighting chance against, you meet hordes of ships of the damned that even a brig with a full crew is threatened by. When you are ready to move on and find people to do group content, there is noe asy way to find them. Everything is tuned on the assumption there isn't one player, but a dozen in a pre-baked company for every situation, and those players are fully outfitted with the best gear for the job.

 

 

ATLAS would be much more approachable - for everyone, and probably more successful as an MMO if they broke the content up more. The fix is simple, it'd look like this:

Golden Age ruins and maps should be your dungeons; your PvE group content. Exploring a random island should be balanced as 'solo' content, where a lone explorer properly equipped, doesn't have TOO much to worry about from the wild animals, particularly in the more temperate climates. It doesn't matter if such encounters are trivial as a group, the 'standard' islands aren't there to be a serious blocker to playing, they're where you build up the tools, resources and vessels needed to engage with the group content - like in a conventional MMO; and that group content should pay off with the best loot, so it provides a clear path of progression:

Solo/Small group play on islands for basic tools -> Treasure maps/SotD as small group for treasure/better blueprints -> Golden age ruins as large group for further advancement -> Raid bosses

PvP then add an extra layer of danger, and allows players to shortcut the loop a bit potentially by stealing other people's loot/blueprints/resources... full disclosure, not really my bag, I'm a PvE player. But that doesn't significantly change things; PvP is disrupted by overtuned PvE too; Ships of the Damned or cyclone walls interrupting naval action, or hordes of wolves getting dragged into a ground battle, so the islands would still serve as the place to gear up and prepare for other challenges even if you are under greater threat.

 

 

Not that any of this matters, schizoid design philosophy will continue even if a better path exists, but, just throwing it out there.

Edited by RyuujinZERO
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Atlas isn't really a MMO, not like the examples listed. Ark is also listed as an MMO.

Atlas is just a survival game like Ark. Ark reskin, but with a grid of servers forming the map instead of servers with just 1 map repeated.

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I'm not sure the devs know what they want it to be. They keep using that word 'MMO' and even talk about roleplaying and other RPG elements; yet it has more in common with Rust than any extent MMORPG. But, it doesn't actually need to be that way a few simple balance tweaks as I listed above, would establish an foothold in MMORPG territory and definitly make the game more playable for a very large audience.

And, that is what they need to remember; MMORPG's... no, games in general, live and die on the 'casual majority' as much as people curse them, not the 'hardcore'; there was at least one MMORPG that tried to sell itself as a hardcore MMO, for hardcore raiders and, it's tale is not a happy one. (Which was a shame because it actually wasn't that hardcore, and was pretty damn fun. But, it was grossly mismarketted and mismanaged for too long to be saved)

Edited by RyuujinZERO

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6 minutes ago, RyuujinZERO said:

I'm not sure the devs know what they want it to be

Agreed. Of course that wanted all types to buy the game.

6 minutes ago, RyuujinZERO said:

games in general, live and die on the 'casual majority

Also agreed. I am still holding out hope for either single player mode or true LAN server support. Most games in this genre (the REAL genre) have a Single player mode. 

 

Atlas has a long way to go before being a true MMO.

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Well there is a sort of progression they seem to be setting up.  Just the bugs and terrible balancing and malfunctioning mechanics obscure it.

Freeport -> Lawless -> Company Play or owning a Claim -> Powerstone Islands, Ghost ship, Kraken, company alliances and raids

Although the fountain of youth being rushed out alone and ONLY on those islands shat all over that. 

 

But I agree completely that they really need to sort things out and think like an MMO developer and not like a survival game developer.  MMOs are a completely different beast, just a persistent shared world alone is a huge undertaking.  Scaring everyone away to private servers is an absolutely terrible idea when you are paying a hefty amount each month for this many official servers.

On unofficial they won't have any interest in your paid cosmetics since they can download a ton of mods for free.

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2 minutes ago, Kyorin said:

persistent shared world

It will not be accessable to new players or more casual players, if it's already all owned.

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11 hours ago, RyuujinZERO said:

ATLAS describes itself as an MMO; it's right there on it's store page:

kiU0KX1.jpg

 

This leads to a lot of people defending the game's current structure as being ok, and that solo players/micro-companies shouldn't be able to play or to even just leave; because it's an MMO and therefore is solely about working together with other players.

I intend to demonstrate why this view is inherently wrong in proven MMO models.

 

 

It's true MMO's allow players to work together; or against each other, on an unprecedented scale. World of Warcraft, EVE, Guild Wars 2, Final Fantasy 14, Elder Scrolls Online, etc etc etc. These are examples of financially successful and stable MMOs, and they all have something in common; they're about 90% solo PvE content. Epic raids in conventional MMOs like WoW, or EVE's thousand-man wars between mega-orgs, or it's emergent territory control might be what they are most famous for, but that is actually a tiny fraction of what they offer and why players, you know, play

Most of your time in WoW or Final Fantasy 14 is more likely to be spent doing solo story quests, leveling, exploring, unlocking content. Even in EVE, for the typical casual player they're probably going to be in low-sec doing safe trade runs, mining or taking NPC mission contracts, this isn't accidental, because this is those games 'resource gathering' phase, where you get the tools, resources, levels and experience needed to tackle the harder content. Then, when your schedule and preferences allow, you get together with friends or strangers and you do the group content; dungeons, raids whatever, and achieve the next level of progression; raid gear, titles etc.

 

 

The point I'm getting at, is that everything in ATLAS is over-tuned and lacks progression. When you land on a beach you don't encounter a wolf, who deals 10-20% damage a hit, you encounter a dozen wolves, each of who can kill a fully armoured and armed player dead very easily; and who can three-shot a player armed with a spear and cloth armour; not to mention the frequent alphas who you need advanced weapons to have any hope of taking down even as a group. When you go to sea, you don't encounter undead scout-ships that a sloop with a cannon has a fighting chance against, you meet hordes of ships of the damned that even a brig with a full crew is threatened by. When you are ready to move on and find people to do group content, there is noe asy way to find them. Everything is tuned on the assumption there isn't one player, but a dozen in a pre-baked company for every situation, and those players are fully outfitted with the best gear for the job.

 

 

ATLAS would be much more approachable - for everyone, and probably more successful as an MMO if they broke the content up more. The fix is simple, it'd look like this:

Golden Age ruins and maps should be your dungeons; your PvE group content. Exploring a random island should be balanced as 'solo' content, where a lone explorer properly equipped, doesn't have TOO much to worry about from the wild animals, particularly in the more temperate climates. It doesn't matter if such encounters are trivial as a group, the 'standard' islands aren't there to be a serious blocker to playing, they're where you build up the tools, resources and vessels needed to engage with the group content - like in a conventional MMO; and that group content should pay off with the best loot, so it provides a clear path of progression:

Solo/Small group play on islands for basic tools -> Treasure maps/SotD as small group for treasure/better blueprints -> Golden age ruins as large group for further advancement -> Raid bosses

PvP then add an extra layer of danger, and allows players to shortcut the loop a bit potentially by stealing other people's loot/blueprints/resources... full disclosure, not really my bag, I'm a PvE player. But that doesn't significantly change things; PvP is disrupted by overtuned PvE too; Ships of the Damned or cyclone walls interrupting naval action, or hordes of wolves getting dragged into a ground battle, so the islands would still serve as the place to gear up and prepare for other challenges even if you are under greater threat.

 

 

Not that any of this matters, schizoid design philosophy will continue even if a better path exists, but, just throwing it out there.

Tears of joy...

THIS IS WHY GRAPESHOT WILL NEVER BE A BIG COMPANY ALTHOUGH THEY WANT USE TO PLAY AS A BIG COMPANY. :skull:

They don't understand there own game or gamers in general that's clear at what we are seeing with this ship wreck!

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