Jump to content

Sign in to follow this  
corsaro_nero

Sleepers preventing land claim in PvE, it's a bug or a feature?

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Zolce said:

Friend of mine hasn’t played since the 3rd day. At 80 or so water and 95 food. If they can die from not eating or drinking it will be months.

Dont know about that, I personally have died several times when I logged out with less than half food/water before. I make it a point to dump my gear before logging off. No, I was not being attacked by animals. My sleeping quarters is a stone room within a stone room within another stone room (learned this from Conan Exiles lol) and nothing broke in.

Again, if any of you are waiting to steal someones claim, your praying for a unicorn. Get out and find your own land, quit being lazy. It may take some time, but there is claimable land. 

 

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Mephos said:

Interesting question tbh. I don´t know. But honestly if you talk to people you notice fast if they are normal guys who just want to play a bit. At least for PvE you have quite a lot of friendly people. But maybe I´m just good at talking to people. Had so far no bigger issues with people. Even gave a claim to our neighbour so that he can expand his harbour. 

I talk with people, but from 2k hours experience in Ark I know also that people getting tired of bugs and co., they quit and give tribe/company to friends that I don't know if I can trust. I can build without problems inside others claims, I just want to be sure to not lose everything is someone changes his mind. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Mephos said:

Interesting question tbh. If anyone knows the answer please let us know 🙂

 

I don´t know. But honestly if you talk to people you notice fast if they are normal guys who just want to play a bit. At least for PvE you have quite a lot of friendly people. But maybe I´m just good at talking to people. Had so far no bigger issues with people. Even gave a claim to our neighbour so that he can expand his harbour. 

I would say 99% of the people that are willing to talk on their mic to you, and even most that are willing to type in chat and have a conversation have generally been very helpful in this game(on PVE). Most people either want to be left alone in PVE and they wont talk, or they want to play with other people so they are happy to help friendly neighbors settle in if their island is not overcrowded. I for one have tried to help visitors on my island numerous times with various things, and I have found many other very helpful people on other islands. I will say the people that try to sneakily steal land from some of the AWOL companies on the island I will try and prevent for the main reason of the I don't know what their motives are, but our island is pretty full right now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Mephos

 

I only asked the question because Guybrush said that characters eventually die. If that was the case then I would gladly take my second flag back from a guy that took it off me via the overlap bug. Maybe I misunderstood him.

I am not advocating for people to lose their claims when inactive for a holiday. Seems like you extrapolated that because I never said or implied anything like that in my short post. Also thanks for the advice but I do have 1 claim. It's hanging by a thread waiting for the next overlap bug but I have one for now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Fefu yeah maybe I jumped to conclusions. I´m just worried that devs touch the claim system or offline timers and fuck everything up. ^^

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cheers mate. I am really not the complaining type. Till now I have 2 concerns mostly - the overlap bug and the permanent buff stacking from FoY. The former is a bug which should eventually be solved and the latter is, in my opinion, a long term design flaw.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm one of the people that didn't get land in the first couple days.  After that I continued to put it off because claims were so buggy, and I didn't want to steal somebody's claim on a bug.  Now as I'm traveling around, I check claims and if I find one that's available to challenge, I'm going to challenge it.  Nothing sneaky about it.  I know all the early birds weren't going around asking permission of the whole zone to make a claim, why should I?  I have actually tried checking in general chat to see if anything's available, and have never gotten any answer but no (over 12 servers or so).  Some of these claim flags even have a message telling people looking for land to stay away.  I know people are leaving the game or have been AWOL for a long time, and those claims are out there, but there's very little reason for anyone to say "Yes, there's land available".  If they live there, they're likely watching the claim timer for themselves or for a friend.   And I refuse to rent.  That's nuts.

Unrelated to that - does anyone else just find the idea of "sleepers" to be weird?  Why have them at all?  Why don't people just vanish when they log out?  Is there some real reason for them to be there?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Winter Thorne said:

I'm one of the people that didn't get land in the first couple days.  After that I continued to put it off because claims were so buggy, and I didn't want to steal somebody's claim on a bug.  Now as I'm traveling around, I check claims and if I find one that's available to challenge, I'm going to challenge it.  Nothing sneaky about it.  I know all the early birds weren't going around asking permission of the whole zone to make a claim, why should I?  I have actually tried checking in general chat to see if anything's available, and have never gotten any answer but no (over 12 servers or so).  Some of these claim flags even have a message telling people looking for land to stay away.  I know people are leaving the game or have been AWOL for a long time, and those claims are out there, but there's very little reason for anyone to say "Yes, there's land available".  If they live there, they're likely watching the claim timer for themselves or for a friend.   And I refuse to rent.  That's nuts.

Unrelated to that - does anyone else just find the idea of "sleepers" to be weird?  Why have them at all?  Why don't people just vanish when they log out?  Is there some real reason for them to be there?

It's from the survival genre of games from what I can tell.  Basically it's a "you can quit playing but your character still has to survive so you can't leave him just anywhere" type of thing.  It adds to the RP part of it making you actually have to take care of where you log out, but other than that there isn't really a reason for the players to stick around and it seems to cause lag(as seen at launch) so it might be about time they just finally stopped letting bodies hang around.  Plus I'm getting real tired of rebuilding my floor every morning.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Winter Thorne said:

I'm one of the people that didn't get land in the first couple days.  After that I continued to put it off because claims were so buggy, and I didn't want to steal somebody's claim on a bug.  Now as I'm traveling around, I check claims and if I find one that's available to challenge, I'm going to challenge it.  Nothing sneaky about it.  I know all the early birds weren't going around asking permission of the whole zone to make a claim, why should I?  I have actually tried checking in general chat to see if anything's available, and have never gotten any answer but no (over 12 servers or so).  Some of these claim flags even have a message telling people looking for land to stay away.  I know people are leaving the game or have been AWOL for a long time, and those claims are out there, but there's very little reason for anyone to say "Yes, there's land available".  If they live there, they're likely watching the claim timer for themselves or for a friend.   And I refuse to rent.  That's nuts. 

Unrelated to that - does anyone else just find the idea of "sleepers" to be weird?  Why have them at all?  Why don't people just vanish when they log out?  Is there some real reason for them to be there?

I don't mind you throwing down the claim but if I come try to talk to you and you scurry away or are just mute, then you can get to moving. if you explain like you just did I would of happily stepped aside out of your claim territory especially if the original owners already tax at 30% its no skin off my back, but maybe our island is in the minority. I know my island has given away plenty of land when we know someone is looking and we know of free spots, but we generally don't allow anyone to come park without being friendly. one company made it in that way on the outskirts and has thrown a bunch of random foundations down on their land which pushes in the resource spawns which is starting to become a bit of a problem, not to mention all the grief ship sinking. 

Edit: Also just coming into the zone and going "yo any land available" is not gonna get anywhere. and PSA people coming in and going "what resources you got?" is not gonna get a response either. if you are looking for something in particular I might be able to help.

Edited by AtlasRyan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Caduryn said:

You lose everything

No you dont loose everything you are simply not allowed to build there anymore.. you have 4 days before your stuff can beremoved you will see a timer like builkding on the Lawless servers. you only loose your building.

Edited by Pax
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pax is completely right.

My neighbour and I tested it. 4 day decay timer before the land owner can demolish, and you have normal access (other than building stuff) during the timer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Fefu said:

@Mephos

 

I only asked the question because Guybrush said that characters eventually die. If that was the case then I would gladly take my second flag back from a guy that took it off me via the overlap bug. Maybe I misunderstood him.

I am not advocating for people to lose their claims when inactive for a holiday. Seems like you extrapolated that because I never said or implied anything like that in my short post. Also thanks for the advice but I do have 1 claim. It's hanging by a thread waiting for the next overlap bug but I have one for now.

Ah no, I never said characters eventually die, I just said if they happen to die while sleeping, which could be being killed by other players (PvP), or being killed by animals (PvE), or some other method, or game problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, AtlasRyan said:

I don't mind you throwing down the claim but if I come try to talk to you and you scurry away or are just mute, then you can get to moving. if you explain like you just did I would of happily stepped aside out of your claim territory especially if the original owners already tax at 30% its no skin off my back, but maybe our island is in the minority. I know my island has given away plenty of land when we know someone is looking and we know of free spots, but we generally don't allow anyone to come park without being friendly. one company made it in that way on the outskirts and has thrown a bunch of random foundations down on their land which pushes in the resource spawns which is starting to become a bit of a problem, not to mention all the grief ship sinking. 

Edit: Also just coming into the zone and going "yo any land available" is not gonna get anywhere. and PSA people coming in and going "what resources you got?" is not gonna get a response either. if you are looking for something in particular I might be able to help.

Look, I understand not wanting to have crappy people in your area.   We had some griefers in my lawless area and we had to follow them around getting screenshots and reporting them till someone finally did something about them.  It stinks.  And there are areas I sail through where I won't even look at the claims, because the chat and the company names are toxic and/or so juvenile I couldn't stand to live there.   But....

There are bunches of us out here with no land because this claim system was designed by a lunatic.  Not only can we not get any decent land, we also get penalized by fast decay, overcrowding, and no beds allowed on land.    And now we get to hear that there's some sort of HOA out there dictating who can move in and who can't, and you have to stop and talk and no, talking isn't enough, you have to use voice and it can't be just a general query, you have to stop long enough for an interview, and don't show up if it's not primetime, cause there's nobody there, and we have to approve you, yadda yadda yadda, and dance little monkey, dance for me.  Is that it?  If anybody's got restrictions on colors for your window boxes, I don't want to hear it.

Look, it's bad enough some of you grabbed up everything while the rest of us were playing "connect to the server", but this attitude that you're also entitled to control everything within the reach of your general chat is pretty flipping arrogant.  Oh, I know you can do it, just as you can grab up 42 claims on day one, because the game was designed by drunken squirrels, apparently.  But just know if that's how you're operating, you don't also get to pretend you're one of the good guys saving your territory from terrible people.  Because it makes you one of the terrible people.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Winter Thorne said:

Look, I understand not wanting to have crappy people in your area.   We had some griefers in my lawless area and we had to follow them around getting screenshots and reporting them till someone finally did something about them.  It stinks.  And there are areas I sail through where I won't even look at the claims, because the chat and the company names are toxic and/or so juvenile I couldn't stand to live there.   But....

There are bunches of us out here with no land because this claim system was designed by a lunatic.  Not only can we not get any decent land, we also get penalized by fast decay, overcrowding, and no beds allowed on land.    And now we get to hear that there's some sort of HOA out there dictating who can move in and who can't, and you have to stop and talk and no, talking isn't enough, you have to use voice and it can't be just a general query, you have to stop long enough for an interview, and don't show up if it's not primetime, cause there's nobody there, and we have to approve you, yadda yadda yadda, and dance little monkey, dance for me.  Is that it?  If anybody's got restrictions on colors for your window boxes, I don't want to hear it.

Look, it's bad enough some of you grabbed up everything while the rest of us were playing "connect to the server", but this attitude that you're also entitled to control everything within the reach of your general chat is pretty flipping arrogant.  Oh, I know you can do it, just as you can grab up 42 claims on day one, because the game was designed by drunken squirrels, apparently.  But just know if that's how you're operating, you don't also get to pretend you're one of the good guys saving your territory from terrible people.  Because it makes you one of the terrible people.

I absolutely get the fact that people don't want garbage builds and christmas tree colored structures all over their territories, along with building "blocking" in areas they are planning to expand into. Oyster Island (e7) on pve has room for anyone that can adhere to some pretty basic building codes. Come and find me on the island (its not hard, there is a town here)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

-Sleepers should starve after 14 days. If you need to be absent for longer than that, then you can have a crewmate/ally feed you in your sleep. 

-Claim flags should not only become claimable after 3 days of inactivity, but should start to decay after 28 days of inactivity.

-Rafts and sloops that are left on the beach in neutral territory should start to decay after 3 days. 

-Non-allied or company owned vessels left inside owned territory should start to decay after 12 hours. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Glad sleepers are there fixing a broken claim system. At least we dont have to keep running to an offline raid system, or open ocean claim system every 10 minutes. Siege the damn island instead of just claiming, sinking offline ships... siege the island. 1 person doesn't make up 200 living on the island though... make friends?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Roughrider said:

I absolutely get the fact that people don't want garbage builds and christmas tree colored structures all over their territories, along with building "blocking" in areas they are planning to expand into. Oyster Island (e7) on pve has room for anyone that can adhere to some pretty basic building codes. Come and find me on the island (its not hard, there is a town here)

see a decent human being but oh no! its an HOA omg! I cant act like an idiot like i'm entitled to in this game.

 

29 minutes ago, Winter Thorne said:

Look, I understand not wanting to have crappy people in your area.   We had some griefers in my lawless area and we had to follow them around getting screenshots and reporting them till someone finally did something about them.  It stinks.  And there are areas I sail through where I won't even look at the claims, because the chat and the company names are toxic and/or so juvenile I couldn't stand to live there.   But....

There are bunches of us out here with no land because this claim system was designed by a lunatic.  Not only can we not get any decent land, we also get penalized by fast decay, overcrowding, and no beds allowed on land.    And now we get to hear that there's some sort of HOA out there dictating who can move in and who can't, and you have to stop and talk and no, talking isn't enough, you have to use voice and it can't be just a general query, you have to stop long enough for an interview, and don't show up if it's not primetime, cause there's nobody there, and we have to approve you, yadda yadda yadda, and dance little monkey, dance for me.  Is that it?  If anybody's got restrictions on colors for your window boxes, I don't want to hear it.

Look, it's bad enough some of you grabbed up everything while the rest of us were playing "connect to the server", but this attitude that you're also entitled to control everything within the reach of your general chat is pretty flipping arrogant.  Oh, I know you can do it, just as you can grab up 42 claims on day one, because the game was designed by drunken squirrels, apparently.  But just know if that's how you're operating, you don't also get to pretend you're one of the good guys saving your territory from terrible people.  Because it makes you one of the terrible people.

FTR my company has 2 claims for 4 people. I don't have 42. We got these claims on Day 6 or 7 so sorry your excuse they were all scooped up in the first 4 hours is false. Im not asking you to paint your windows a certain color or dance for me im asking that you don't act like a complete asshat. Hell you can even claim land and act like an asshat, im just saying don't get mad at me if I stand in your claim if your name is "iheartboobies" you drive a bright purple ship, and you look like an apeman and refuse to talk(even in chat). There is plenty of land out there if you act like a decent person, and if you want to act like a turd go to the cold there is land there to claim. I just got some last week I didn't have to steal. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, AtlasRyan said:

FTR my company has 2 claims for 4 people. I don't have 42. We got these claims on Day 6 or 7 so sorry your excuse they were all scooped up in the first 4 hours is false. Im not asking you to paint your windows a certain color or dance for me im asking that you don't act like a complete asshat. Hell you can even claim land and act like an asshat, im just saying don't get mad at me if I stand in your claim if your name is "iheartboobies" you drive a bright purple ship, and you look like an apeman and refuse to talk(even in chat). There is plenty of land out there if you act like a decent person, and if you want to act like a turd go to the cold there is land there to claim. I just got some last week I didn't have to steal. 

If that's what you meant to say you should have said that.  But it's a bit more than bright purple ships and foul names.  If I saw those trying to claim next to me, I wouldn't like that either.  Not sure if I'd take advantage of what I think must be a bug to grief them out of it though.  Would have to think about that one.

3 hours ago, AtlasRyan said:

I would say 99% of the people that are willing to talk on their mic to you, and even most that are willing to type in chat and have a conversation ......

I will say the people that try to sneakily steal land from some of the AWOL companies on the island I will try and prevent for the main reason of the I don't know what their motives are,

Also just coming into the zone and going "yo any land available" is not gonna get anywhere. 

So you need someone willing to  chat with you.  What if they don't use voice?  (like me), what if they don't speak English?  what if they're frequently afk when you're saying hello?  What if they actually DO come by and ask if there's any land open?  You don't like that either.  Bzzzt....you flunked Ryan's test.  No land for you, cause he's going to skip around in it until you get fed up and leave.

Re, Roughrider's comment -  that's not an HOA.  Everybody knows not to build like an asshat, except an asshat.    He also didn't threaten to grief me out of a claim if I didn't go through his interview process.  See the difference?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, Endo Fett said:

-Sleepers should starve after 14 days. If you need to be absent for longer than that, then you can have a crewmate/ally feed you in your sleep. 

-Claim flags should not only become claimable after 3 days of inactivity, but should start to decay after 28 days of inactivity.

-Rafts and sloops that are left on the beach in neutral territory should start to decay after 3 days. 

-Non-allied or company owned vessels left inside owned territory should start to decay after 12 hours. 

So much this. We've had 3 sloops, a schooner and about 5 rafts choking our port up (still can move around them) for over 30 days.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Winter Thorne said:

I'm one of the people that didn't get land in the first couple days.  After that I continued to put it off because claims were so buggy, and I didn't want to steal somebody's claim on a bug.  Now as I'm traveling around, I check claims and if I find one that's available to challenge, I'm going to challenge it.  Nothing sneaky about it.  I know all the early birds weren't going around asking permission of the whole zone to make a claim, why should I?  I have actually tried checking in general chat to see if anything's available, and have never gotten any answer but no (over 12 servers or so).  Some of these claim flags even have a message telling people looking for land to stay away.  I know people are leaving the game or have been AWOL for a long time, and those claims are out there, but there's very little reason for anyone to say "Yes, there's land available".  If they live there, they're likely watching the claim timer for themselves or for a friend.   And I refuse to rent.  That's nuts.

Unrelated to that - does anyone else just find the idea of "sleepers" to be weird?  Why have them at all?  Why don't people just vanish when they log out?  Is there some real reason for them to be there?

We didnt get land at the beginning either. We mistakenly spawned at M5 server that crashed day 1 and was down for the whole first week. The land grab was well over when we started looking. Since then, we found 4 different places all over the map to claim. It was only 2 weeks ago that we found our permanent spot, so yes, there is still land out there for sure. The defeatist attitude coupled with the "someone give it to me" though process is not doing you any favors. Be like the vast majority and quit whining, grow some sea legs and start searching. Island by island and you will eventually find land. FYI, during a resources run, we found land in the southern H and G regions just last weekend.

 

Sleepers are there to force players to go back to a base point (thats safe) to sleep. To avoid dying and taking a chance on losing your claim. I for one sleep in a concrete room within another room, within another room, within yet another room (4 layers) because of the snake glitching. All of these servival games include sleeping (ark, conan, etc.) and it would be wierd without it.

Just my 2 cents.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, =MGC=Ranger said:

We didnt get land at the beginning either. We mistakenly spawned at M5 server that crashed day 1 and was down for the whole first week. The land grab was well over when we started looking. Since then, we found 4 different places all over the map to claim. It was only 2 weeks ago that we found our permanent spot, so yes, there is still land out there for sure. The defeatist attitude coupled with the "someone give it to me" though process is not doing you any favors. Be like the vast majority and quit whining, grow some sea legs and start searching. Island by island and you will eventually find land. FYI, during a resources run, we found land in the southern H and G regions just last weekend.

 

Sleepers are there to force players to go back to a base point (thats safe) to sleep. To avoid dying and taking a chance on losing your claim. I for one sleep in a concrete room within another room, within another room, within yet another room (4 layers) because of the snake glitching. All of these servival games include sleeping (ark, conan, etc.) and it would be wierd without it.

Just my 2 cents.

Well, at least you didn't claim people without land were lazy, cause that's getting really old right now.  You must have missed the part where I said I'd been sailing around for days looking for claims.  So go back and try again, and take your insults and personal remarks with you.

 

Re. sleepers - the only reason I can see for them being there doesn't make sense with the rest of the game.  It would be to prevent one person having a whole bunch of far-flung claims if they need to be out of the game for a number of days, because you can't sleep everywhere at once.  But the game doesn't otherwise discourage people from having multiple far flung claims, so I'm sure that's not it.

I know most survival games include sleepers.  That wasn't what I was asking.  I was wondering what purpose they serve in THIS game.  The purpose can't be to ensure every player must build a nesting Russian doll to sleep in, because that would just be...well....stupid.

The problem with sleepers is that they're there ostensibly to hold a claim while the player is not in the game.  But it sets up a confusing ruleset that's more complicated than it has to be.  What's the expiration for a claim?  (It should be simply X amount of time since someone has logged into the game.)  But what is it really?  Is there a sleeping cutoff time, or does it go on forever?  So now we have one expiration for a claim with no one in it and (a different?) one for a claim with someone sleeping in it.  Is there anything gained by not just having a login clock that counts down..if you don't log in for 20 days, your claim expires?

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Roughrider said:

I absolutely get the fact that people don't want garbage builds and christmas tree colored structures all over their territories, along with building "blocking" in areas they are planning to expand into. Oyster Island (e7) on pve has room for anyone that can adhere to some pretty basic building codes. Come and find me on the island (its not hard, there is a town here)

Forgot to thank you for your comment.  When I returned from 2 days of sailing and looking today I found a bunch of people encroaching my settlement in Lawless, so I guess I'd better spend a day or so putting up foundations, posts, walls, etc.  There's one other friend left there from our original bunch of 10 or so (all started small or solo and met in Lawless, and most of whom have quit due to griefing and bugs), and he's also out looking, so I better try to protect his spot too.  Could hardly get my raft back in there when I got back today.  (Yes, I'm still on a raft.  No point building anything bigger when it doesn't last overnight here)  After that, I may take a long trip your way and see if anything's left in that area.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

You must have missed the part where I said I'd been sailing around for days looking for claims.

Quote

 

 

Days? LOL that is the DEFINITION of lazy. Days are NOTHING. Get on your boat, get some sea legs and sail for WEEKS searching islands and you will find land. Can you visit EVERY island in days? No way. So, until you visit all the islands, yes, you are being lazy. Stop with the millennial mindset of "someone give it to me because I demand it" and go earn it like the countless of other players in the game. You want to come here and cry about not finding land in days, thats fine, but you will never find land. So instead of earning your land, just keep coming her and crying. Im sure it will do a bunch of good.

Edited by =MGC=Ranger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've had a guy sleeping on a claim since the game has been released. Why are players infinitely allowed to sleep on a claim? Hey don't get me wrong when I go on vacation or have to be away from the game for a extended period of time I want protection as well. Doesn't there need to be some sort of timeline on how long someone can sleep on a spot?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, =MGC=Ranger said:

Days? LOL that is the DEFINITION of lazy. Days are NOTHING. Get on your boat, get some sea legs and sail for WEEKS searching islands and you will find land. Can you visit EVERY island in days? No way. So, until you visit all the islands, yes, you are being lazy. Stop with the millennial mindset of "someone give it to me because I demand it" and go earn it like the countless of other players in the game. You want to come here and cry about not finding land in days, thats fine, but you will never find land. So instead of earning your land, just keep coming her and crying. Im sure it will do a bunch of good.

To be honest, I found land within days that was claimable or at least buildable in lawless.  A few crewmates found land that our new neighbors were willingly giving away, so it's out there for sure.

 

1 minute ago, Kirves said:

I've had a guy sleeping on a claim since the game has been released. Why are players infinitely allowed to sleep on a claim? Hey don't get me wrong when I go on vacation or have to be away from the game for a extended period of time I want protection as well. Doesn't there need to be some sort of timeline on how long someone can sleep on a spot?

Well until the timer is extended past 3 days I'm quite happy this works as a block.  I wouldn't like the idea of every person losing their claims because they took more than a 3 day vacation.  I'm sure there are some in this thread that would probably like that change though.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×