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No "hook" to keep people's interest. Taming, Breeding, Solo Play are terrible

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54 minutes ago, Bullet Force said:

No hook to keep people interested? What a load of exaggerated nonsense.

How about for one the never ending mission of conquest. Raiding companies bases and conquering their lands. As soon as you knock one down another one shows up. The lust for blood and conquest is certainly what keeps me playing games like Atlas and ARK. I am sure many others feel likewise.

Wait...what?  LOL   I mean...you don't think this is PvP...do you?  Raiding somebody's base when nobody's home?  Sorry there Sport...that's not PvP.

Raiding somebody when you have all your guys show up for the planned event...how many do you have?...but the other guy, not knowing it's coming, have maybe 1/10th as many people.  Yeah...that's just a poor substitute for real PvP.  About as challenging as clubbing baby seals.  I hope you don't actually brag to your friends about how awesome it was.

Try some real PvP...you know...where the other side has a legitimate chance against you?  That kind of PvP action in this game is extremely rare.

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9 hours ago, Lynx said:

I will just play Ark instead. But you would think the devs would want to attract more players instead of losing them.

Yup Ark was a better start i remember every week or every other week them adding new dinos and that shit was awesome.

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2 hours ago, Senkoau said:

Wheras others of us loathe PVP especially PVP that is offline raiding and much higher level groups deliberately hunting lower/smaller targets and consider it a drawback rather than a hook.

Well in that case play PVE. Its the mode without any PVP which is what you want right?

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10 minutes ago, Scorpionshawn said:

Yup Ark was a better start i remember every week or every other week them adding new dinos and that shit was awesome.

Going back and looking at the statistic for early Ark EA. It's was more than twice as populated and didn't really lose players for the first couple months.

 

Atlas on the other hand had the huge refund frenzy. It's player base started declining within a few days. And has continued to decline (obvious weekend spikes).

 

 

13 minutes ago, Bullet Force said:

Well in that case play PVE. Its the mode without any PVP which is what you want right?

Except PvE still have PvP....The land claim nonsense and the sinking ship exploits.

 

The land claim system should have been completely different for PvE. Limits in placed. But WC/GS simply turn off player-player damage and called it PvE to make money. 

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5 hours ago, darcek said:

This sentence has so many problems.. 

First theres nothing to be "learned" from assets of ARK.

This game is using the same engine as ARK,thats all.

 The devs claimed this game is completely different then ARK,and one of the reason ,im sure of , is this exact line of thinking,people love to do here in the forum.

And the engine is having same negative bugs,the ARK engine had,for the same reason,they are using the same engine. not an upgraded version or anything.from what I read they cant build better version of it,just live with the problems and find workarounds,the only fix is to scrap the engine and they dont want to do that obviously.

 

Hate to break it to you, but it's literally an old Ark build from before Extinction.  Grapeshot is is also the same core team that originally created Ark.  They've had 4 years of experience with Unreal Engine 4 now, they know what the community that plays their games is like (chinese, griefers, solo complaints, tamers, how large tribes act, PILLAR SPAM), they should know better.  Yet they keep repeating the exact same mistakes.

So yes that sentence of mine works just fine.  

 

Also I'm not in the blind hatred crowd.  However what I DO see is them pushing new poorly thought out "check out this cool new thing!!"  content on top of their existing broken systems.  Again.  Not a single mechanic can be said to be in a good place, yet they push out new content (like the upcoming February patch) on top that have their own issues and require Dev attention to fix.  

You don't start a game of Jenga with half the blocks in the bottom of the tower cockeyed and halfway out.

 

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5 hours ago, Captain Jack Shadow said:

Wait...what?  LOL   I mean...you don't think this is PvP...do you?  Raiding somebody's base when nobody's home?  Sorry there Sport...that's not PvP.

Raiding somebody when you have all your guys show up for the planned event...how many do you have?...but the other guy, not knowing it's coming, have maybe 1/10th as many people.  Yeah...that's just a poor substitute for real PvP.  About as challenging as clubbing baby seals.  I hope you don't actually brag to your friends about how awesome it was.

Try some real PvP...you know...where the other side has a legitimate chance against you?  That kind of PvP action in this game is extremely rare.

Many people complain about offline raiding to us as well, but they don't understand that we are full-time guild that can raid their freaking weak islands during 24 hours. Their online hours mean nothing. This is FREE PVP game and this PVP is real. Not just some scheduled shit. I remember when 50% of our guild came online at 4 a.m. to protect our base. That was awesome naval and land battle :classic_happy:

Edited by BlackFlint

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2 hours ago, BlackFlint said:

Many people complain about offline raiding to us as well, but they don't understand that we are full-time guild that can raid their freaking weak islands during 24 hours. Their online hours mean nothing. This is FREE PVP game and this PVP is real. Not just some scheduled shit. I remember when 50% of our guild came online at 4 a.m. to protect our base. That was awesome naval and land battle :classic_happy:

Not everyone is able to log in to the game at any time due to things like family or work especially in a smaller company and really where is the challenge in your raiding their "weak islands" and destroying everything they've worked to build up when they aren't around to protect it?

As for PVE in this game people seem to view it as PVP with the challenge of not being able to directly target their opponent which results in things like them waddling onto ships loaded down with things to sink them or when that was fixed steering rafts into docks to render them unuseable. Which doesn't address the fact that changes to "balance" pvp also affect PVE with things like alpha's being currently all but invinceable to a player who doesn't have a combat heavy specialisation investing a lot of skill points to deal with them. The best way currently to avoid PVP if you aren't interested in having to rebuild your stuff every few day's is to either join a massive company that as you say has people online 24/7 usually with resulting restrictions on how you play or to go to an unnoficial server with associated costs in running and given the set up of the game not having access to everything because you can't afford to run a 250+ server game.

Edited by Senkoau

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3 hours ago, Kyorin said:

Hate to break it to you, but it's literally an old Ark build from before Extinction.  Grapeshot is is also the same core team that originally created Ark.  They've had 4 years of experience with Unreal Engine 4 now, they know what the community that plays their games is like (chinese, griefers, solo complaints, tamers, how large tribes act, PILLAR SPAM), they should know better.  Yet they keep repeating the exact same mistakes.

So yes that sentence of mine works just fine.  

 

Also I'm not in the blind hatred crowd.  However what I DO see is them pushing new poorly thought out "check out this cool new thing!!"  content on top of their existing broken systems.  Again.  Not a single mechanic can be said to be in a good place, yet they push out new content (like the upcoming February patch) on top that have their own issues and require Dev attention to fix.  

You don't start a game of Jenga with half the blocks in the bottom of the tower cockeyed and halfway out.

 

I agree with you, their method of implementation needs work, the FoY is a good example, they should have held off on it, but I feel this thread and some of the people here goes against what you just said, some hear have talked about completely wiping the game, some have talked about removing core mechanics (not in this thread in particular)

We shouldn't be trying to implement "hooks", that's a waste of time at this point in development, like you said, "pushing new poorly thought out "check out this cool new thing!!" that's trying to jump before we can even walk and the mentioned things aren't the focal point of this game at all, that would be a waste, again at this point in time imho. I think people need to take ARK of the brain and stop using stats as ammunition, "your games dying, make it more like your other game now" and try to reinforce the main goals of this game and how they can improve that, Ships and the sea, hopefully they are working on getting this sorted before the next big patch, doubt it, but I hope

All up for suggestion, but imho, suggestions that are trying to change one game into another to me will make things worse than better.

Edited by Herasea

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8 hours ago, Lynx said:

Going back and looking at the statistic for early Ark EA. It's was more than twice as populated and didn't really lose players for the first couple months.

 

Atlas on the other hand had the huge refund frenzy. It's player base started declining within a few days. And has continued to decline (obvious weekend spikes).

On the other side, it was pretty amazing that they were keeping a 50K playerbase the first 2 weeks of playing, even with the bad start and all the problems that were around. 

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10 hours ago, Captain Jack Shadow said:

Wait...what?  LOL   I mean...you don't think this is PvP...do you?  Raiding somebody's base when nobody's home?  Sorry there Sport...that's not PvP.

Raiding somebody when you have all your guys show up for the planned event...how many do you have?...but the other guy, not knowing it's coming, have maybe 1/10th as many people.  Yeah...that's just a poor substitute for real PvP.  About as challenging as clubbing baby seals.  I hope you don't actually brag to your friends about how awesome it was.

Try some real PvP...you know...where the other side has a legitimate chance against you?  That kind of PvP action in this game is extremely rare.

Succinctly stated!  That's not PvP, that's "Coward vs Offline Player"  :classic_cool:☕👍

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8 hours ago, BlackFlint said:

Many people complain about offline raiding to us as well, but they don't understand that we are full-time guild that can raid their freaking weak islands during 24 hours. Their online hours mean nothing. This is FREE PVP game and this PVP is real. Not just some scheduled shit. I remember when 50% of our guild came online at 4 a.m. to protect our base. That was awesome naval and land battle :classic_happy:

Not really, but you are free to continue with your delusion.

Imagine your favorite FIFA team shows up to the stadium, and you and your friends show up, and the score is already 50-0 against your team.  You are like, WTF?  The announcer says, "Well, the other team showed up at 4:00 am and started playing.  Too bad for you."

How long do you think a sport would last with that kind of thing taking place?  Not long, Sport.

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17 minutes ago, Captain Jack Shadow said:

Not really, but you are free to continue with your delusion.

Imagine your favorite FIFA team shows up to the stadium, and you and your friends show up, and the score is already 50-0 against your team.  You are like, WTF?  The announcer says, "Well, the other team showed up at 4:00 am and started playing.  Too bad for you."

How long do you think a sport would last with that kind of thing taking place?  Not long, Sport.

PvP should be hardcore. Only 1 life to live. Like reality. Yolo.

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1 minute ago, Lynx said:

PvP should be hardcore. Only 1 life to live. Like reality. Yolo.

Not sure we need to go that far, but this is a game.  In real life, in a real war, the offline raiding, or attacking where few of the enemy are, is a smart tactic.  But, this is a game...not real life.  That's why I used the example of a FIFA game.  Nobody would show up for the game if the visiting team has already shown up at 4am, and scored so many points that the home team would just be advised to throw in the towel.  Games have rules based on fairness, and they do so not because it is kind, or a nice thing to do...they are done because without the rules, the game is boring, less drama, less interest.

The problem with these games, ARK and Atlas, are that fools convince themselves that clubbing baby seals was somehow an achievement to be proud of.  If I raid an offline base, I have a gross feeling about it.  No challenge.  Nothing accomplished to be proud of.

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3 minutes ago, Captain Jack Shadow said:

The problem with these games, ARK and Atlas, are that fools convince themselves that clubbing baby seals was somehow an achievement to be proud of.  If I raid an offline base, I have a gross feeling about it.  No challenge.  Nothing accomplished to be proud of.

I stick with PvE in these type games cause PvP is usually too ridiculous. They aren't well balanced for long term gameplay. That's why battleroyal types games are so popular, it's not long term.

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2 minutes ago, Lynx said:

I stick with PvE in these type games cause PvP is usually too ridiculous. They aren't well balanced for long term gameplay. That's why battleroyal types games are so popular, it's not long term.

I played WWIIOL, which was open world, and long term.  Some campaigns lasted months.  I believe one lasted over 6 months.  The sides could be imbalanced, but there were mechanisms to balance the imbalance.  Spawn delays, for instance.  The problem here is that there is nothing at all to give help to a defender, who is almost certainly going to be outgunned, since the attacker chooses the time and place of the attack, and they almost always do so when everything is to their advantage.  This means that your only real defense is to go unnoticed.  If somebody targets you, there is nothing you can do about it, and that makes the game boring.

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Just now, Captain Jack Shadow said:

I played WWIIOL, which was open world, and long term.  Some campaigns lasted months.  I believe one lasted over 6 months.  The sides could be imbalanced, but there were mechanisms to balance the imbalance.  Spawn delays, for instance.  The problem here is that there is nothing at all to give help to a defender, who is almost certainly going to be outgunned, since the attacker chooses the time and place of the attack, and they almost always do so when everything is to their advantage.  This means that your only real defense is to go unnoticed.  If somebody targets you, there is nothing you can do about it, and that makes the game boring.

Based on the dev interviews I have read, they are planning on just leaving the gameplay and content in the hands of the players. Which I think is a really bad idea. Game mechanics are needed.

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23 minutes ago, Lynx said:

Based on the dev interviews I have read, they are planning on just leaving the gameplay and content in the hands of the players. Which I think is a really bad idea. Game mechanics are needed.

I admit that I don't blame them.  They know the game is full of people who don't understand what real PvP is.  People are gladly taking buying the snake oil, and fooling themselves into believing it's a real cure...because they want to believe.

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24 minutes ago, Captain Jack Shadow said:

I admit that I don't blame them.  They know the game is full of people who don't understand what real PvP is.  People are gladly taking buying the snake oil, and fooling themselves into believing it's a real cure...because they want to believe.

It's really that this is more a sandbox than an organized mmorpg like WOW or some of the cool faction based PvP games like DAoC.

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2 hours ago, Lynx said:

It's really that this is more a sandbox than an organized mmorpg like WOW or some of the cool faction based PvP games like DAoC.

That can be a good thing, but not if it allows, and even encourages people to avoid actual PvP.   It can still be done in a manner that allows the players to drive the action, but still do so in a manner that promotes, rather than discourages PvP.

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