Many of the complaints about PVE Claim System, People not Leaving Lawless, and Weight sinking are more indicative of a lack of environment rather than their specific issues

[Archsenex 309]

Disclaimer - This is in the PVE board for a reason.  However, many of the concepts would survive in PVP as well.  However, the NEED for them is more present on PVE

So I've been giving it some thought to the complaints about the claim system, and as usual it doesn't just boil down to simple player greed, and frankly the solution isn't as simple as just limiting players to a number of claims.  Most of the solutions proposed so far still rely on the basic assumption that players should NEED to have a significant permanent land presence, and that really doesn't translate well to a player versus environment context.  Territory, and territory control, are pretty inherently PVP concepts.  If land is owned by a player, then even on PVE, the architecture of taking land from another player is a PVP oriented action (in order for player a to gain, player b MUST lose something), and adding perfect protection doesn't really make that suddenly work (which is the current system, you really only gain land when another player exits the game or abandons it).

The solutions aren't to just limit out the ability for people to control territory, although there probably is some reasonable limit that should probably go in.  However, no matter what the limit, what we really need is more environment.  I'd like to propose the following as additions that wouldn't upset the game greatly, but should drastically reduce the over-focus on the Claim system.  The claim system (and lawless zones as they are now, but not how Grapeshot wants them) are so focusd on because they are everything.  If there was alternative, non-land control environment, then players wouldn't feel the NEED to have claimed land, wouldn't need to horde it even if they aren't using it, and would be able to play the game without opting into that system.  Basically, turn being a landowner into a thing you do because you want to, not because you have to.

P.S. As far as weight sinking that was recently rampant, it's important to remember that much of it wasn't true Griefing.  Griefing requires the act to be motivated with the goal of causing frustration or irritation to the victim, and while there were plenty of people doing it just to annoy anothers (the ones who were streaming about it etc.) a large swath of the companies that were strip mining ships were doing it for the goal of gathering resources.  This is another sign that there was no non-PVP way for them to use some game mechanisms (see below and you'll know more about what I'm thinking).

1)  Ships of the Damned should give more loot of a mundane and non-exclusive nature

Right now, SOTD give NPC crew and ship recipes, and some coins.  That's great, but they really need to give mundane resources.  Some amount of Wood, Thatch, Fiber, and Metal, and maybe an exotic material (oil/sap) per kill would provide an alternative source of resources, and motivate stronger players to keep the waters safer for weaker players / players not as far along progression.  Let people play hunters of the mystical.

2) There should be NPC ships other than ships of the damned for us to fight

Just as with the SOTD, there should be merchant and trade vessels for us to fight and ultimately sink.  It's another resource in, and provides a purpose to the salvaging tree.  In fact, in PVE, the ultimate pirate ability could be retooled from allowing claiming of ships (NOT a PVE concept...) to increasing the merchant loot from Merchant ships.  Let people play pirates.

3) There should be spawned shipwrecks

Right now, the salvage skills are only really useful for people who intend to sink ships through griefing.  I'm willing to say that 99% of the ships that sank on PVE were through exploits rather than legit mechanisms.  This was often done to salve the ships.  Salvaging should be a viable play style in a game like this, but the system needs to spawn things in.   Let people play salvagers.

4) There should be less requirement to have a land base - it should be an option

I'm going to break this one down into 4 sub-parts, but right now there are three main reasons to build a base that are REQUIRED for progression.  This doesn't include "I build a base because I want to" which I'm all for, but I'm trying to highlight why right now, the "want to build a base" players are rubbing up against people only doing it to support the rest of their play.  Also, much of the foundation spam is from people reserving land "in case" they need it (ok, and to be arseholes but at least some of them are doing it non maliciously and we should give them an option).

4a) allow purchase of farmed items at reasonable rates/ re-enable farming on boats

Farming is disabled on ships.  Either re-enable it, or let us get farmed items from NPC's at reasonable rates.  As it stands right now, I see a lot of farms in lawless.  Farmed goods are required to get good tames and good food for the vitamin system.  This forces people to build land bases to farm to progress

Now yes, You CAN farm on a boat through rain, but it's risky.  Letting us put pipes on ships would let us have the buffer of a reservoir.

4b) allow kenneling of tames

One of the major reasons to build a base is that you need a place to store your tames.  In a PVE context, tames inside my base should be "invincible" because there's not supposed to be a non-exploit way to hurt them.  So why even bother with the base at all?  Why not have NPC kennels throughout the land where we can store our tames when we aren't using them.  Added bonus, we don't consume server resources with bases and parked tames.

4c) allow use of rented shipyards

Right now, you HAVE to have a land base for is to build your ship.  It's a huge problem and the shipyard spam around islands is totally real.  Instead, why not add a system where I can rent a shipyard for 2 hours?  I'd build the materials ahead of time, lay down the skeleton, plop on the panels, and set sail.   Right now, people plug up space for FOUR DAYS to build their ships.  If lawless really is supposed to be more about people getting ready and moving on, put the NPC shipyards there.  Have each island have 6 shipyards that people can rent for short bursts to build their ships, and get out.

4d) add NPC storage

The final reason you have to build a base is that storage on ships is limited, and vulnerable.  Again, just like with kenneling tames, ON A PVE SERVER my resources in my base should be safe, and the only way for players to get them are exploits, so again, why not just take the base out of the equation?  Let us deposit resources into an NPC bank, and while near the NPC bank, we get a "loading crane" buff that gives us crazy carry weight (5000 or so) to move stuff to or from our ship storage easily.

[kolpo 81]

 

1 hour ago, Archsenex said:

4c) allow use of rented shipyards

Right now, you HAVE to have a land base for is to build your ship.  It's a huge problem and the shipyard spam around islands is totally real.  Instead, why not add a system where I can rent a shipyard for 2 hours?  I'd build the materials ahead of time, lay down the skeleton, plop on the panels, and set sail.   Right now, people plug up space for FOUR DAYS to build their ships.  If lawless really is supposed to be more about people getting ready and moving on, put the NPC shipyards there.  Have each island have 6 shipyards that people can rent for short bursts to build their ships, and get out.

I only use my shipyard 1% of the time, they should give us a save(griefing proof) way to rent  our shipyard to others.

Like a menu were I can specify that people can rent my shipyard for 5 gold/day for the next 4 days.

Edited January 18, 2019 by kolpo

[Ringo O'Rourke 41]

Great post. I think you've put your finger on a contradiction in the game: for a sailing pirate game, there is way too much emphasis on generic land-based base building. It really was wholesale ported from a game with a different setting.

I think a lot of the land necessity problems could be solved if there were completely neutral zones or islands where people could not build bases, but could claim public farming plots and kennels as you describe. Granted, these are getting into more "traditional" MMO territory, and might change the flavour of the game (perhaps for the worst), but something has to be done.

Another solution is to implement player vendor NPC's or an auction house. If all needed farm materials could be bought without much trouble at a central hub, then people wouldn't have to farm themselves. This is probably the best solutions, and would solve a lot of other problems with the game.

Since there is no player vendors or auction houses, it is difficult to specialize unless you are in a big company. This is why Grapeshot had to up skill points/level to allow small companies/solo players access to more skills. With robust trade, everyone could specialize.

[MindOfMadness 98]

Should be NPC ships that we can raid and claim...  Pirates didn't build ships, they stole them.

Give us NPCs to raid for their ships when we are on our rafts. The bigger the ship the harder it is to raid.

[BoomerMcFisticuffs 12]

7 hours ago, Archsenex said:

build the materials ahead of time, lay down the skeleton, plop on the panels, and set sail.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who does this. Just seems easier to get everything together first, craft it all at once, then plop down the shipyard, the skeleton, build the boat and move on. I've gone further with this several times by removing the shipyard when I'm done.

[Skyroguen 90]

I would like to be able to sell ships to other players. I love to build and customize ships and would love to run a business based on that. that would free up some shipyard spam and allow some players to recover from a loss more quickly. In my opinion the only things that should be able to sink a ship in PVE is NPCs, Environment and player ineptitude (like failing to maintain ship or running aground). 

[Indywoodtiger 48]

On 1/19/2019 at 4:59 AM, Skyroguen said:

 player ineptitude (like failing to maintain ship or running aground). 

Have you been following me around??

[Mideivil 0]

The claiming system should cost gold to upkeep the claim. It would force people to do the pve content. 

[Pax 83]

35 minutes ago, Mideivil said:

The claiming system should cost gold to upkeep the claim. It would force people to do the pve content. 

They have already said thats the plan... Land will cost money for upkeep. they said it again in the Livestream on friday

 

[Mideivil 0]

sorry im not in the know.. but to me it seems like the most basic answer. 

 

[Orionadie 9]

Love your ideas, yes brings it more in line with mmo,s but would stop some of the griefing.

As currently no reason to fight the Sotd as costs more than you get from them.

Shipyard spam is crazy in this game. They also could cost less to make ship yards but are temporary.

 

[JustShootMe 4]

This is one of the best topics I have read, everything in here is about making the game better as well as the comments.

I personally try to clean up after my self by destroying the buildings and docks that are temporary.

If I build a taming trap i leave it unlocked for others to use.

I try to think of other players.

I clean up the environment as I play by destroying individual floors and posts left by other players (Only if time has expired on the item)

[UDO 361]

brillaint well thought out post , very sensible ideas especially the shipyard renting option , 

[Sanders 0]

Dear players, help me, is there somewhere I can turn to when they do this kind of mean thing?

[Sanders 0]

[Sanders 0]

It's not enough that they block the entire island, the space around my mines, so they also block my construction around my base, where there is no presence of theirs.

[tagbag 0]

On 1/20/2019 at 7:58 AM, Mideivil said:

The claiming system should cost gold to upkeep the claim. It would force people to do the pve content. 

Return to claim flags ( only A idea )

Start game with 1 company claim flag of 50/100 meter radius.
Company flag has a gold cost to keep it active ( 100/24hrs ? )
Each member of the company gets a claim flag at lvl 1  25 meter radius.
Each member gets a second flag at lvl 20 then one every 10 lvls after that.
Each member flag placed after the company flag adds gold cost to the company flag ( 25g/flag ? )
ANYTHING built outside of claim flag area decays in 24hrs ( ships need different timer perhaps same as tames , you can claim after 10 days  )
If company flag runs out of gold ALL flags on entire map go down over 24hrs then decay takes over for another 24hrs.

Edited May 12 by tagbag