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Tomsey

Taxing your land need consequences in PVE

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Companies claim big areas of land, they put tax on it. There is no consequences to this behaviour. Their flags are pve protected and they can just sit in their base and take 30% of what I and everyone else gather in the area.

Tax needs to be removed, which is my initial idea. But I know this wont happen since people love having tax on areas. So I suggest there needs to be a consequence to putting tax on areas.

My example would be that if you want to put tax your land, you shouldnt be allowed to have PVE claim protection on it. Atleast then the companies with alot of land would need to put in work to keep their land and put in an effort to tax people.

If they wanna sit with all their land and dont want people to claim it, they can remove the taxes in the area.

If you have any other suggestion on how to deal with this topic please share.

EDIT: I change this post to make it more streamlined and simpler to understand. Thank you🙂

Edited by Tomsey
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Play unofficial where rates are so high it doesn't matter. Or where the tax bank structure can be easily removed from the game.

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Change your location if you don't want to pay 30%. We have 3 major land owners on our island. It was immensely profitable at the begging because of the influx of people from freeport. Whole island had 30% tax rate and there was no incentive to lower it. With the neutral claims however companies recognized that it is better to have tenants and lower taxes rather than have high tax and no income. At first all the taxes dropped to 25% and now some areas have 10% tax and max is 25%. So it's actually getting better. 

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8 hours ago, Tomsey said:

im playing on PVE and he is safe and the game systems protect his greed.

You're hilarious. You play on PvE and thus YOU are safe and so is your stuff. You don't want HIM to be the same though because that irks you. Nobody twisted your arm and forced you to build there. 😄

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10 hours ago, Tomsey said:

Remove the claim protection if they are gonna tax the area, atleast then I can try steal it and remove the tax.

You don't make sense, you play on PVE but you want to be able to steal someone's claim?   That's the number one problem with official PVE and why so many leave it for unofficials.  IN a PVE game nobody is supposed to be able to steal from you, it is supposed to be you versus the environment/NPC/game mechanics.  Nothing another player does is supposed to be able to have a negative impact on your game.  That would be PVP, so maybe you are in the wrong game mode.

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2 hours ago, radosc said:

Change your location if you don't want to pay 30%. We have 3 major land owners on our island. It was immensely profitable at the begging because of the influx of people from freeport. Whole island had 30% tax rate and there was no incentive to lower it. With the neutral claims however companies recognized that it is better to have tenants and lower taxes rather than have high tax and no income. At first all the taxes dropped to 25% and now some areas have 10% tax and max is 25%. So it's actually getting better. 

Change my location? To where? You want me to move to a lawless island where you cant claim, to avoid tax? Because there is no islands that are tax free, companies claim big areas and tax them with no consequenses.

I see that you missed the point of this thread, its the title, there needs to be a cost to be allowed to claim big areas and tax them.

1 hour ago, Coggage said:

You're hilarious. You play on PvE and thus YOU are safe and so is your stuff. You don't want HIM to be the same though because that irks you. Nobody twisted your arm and forced you to build there. 😄

Yeah, my stuff is safe and the companies around me who own all the land around me are safe to tax me. I understand that you support greed, but if you want greed, there should be something that others can do to fight against your greed.

35 minutes ago, HonestJohn said:

You don't make sense, you play on PVE but you want to be able to steal someone's claim?   That's the number one problem with official PVE and why so many leave it for unofficials.  IN a PVE game nobody is supposed to be able to steal from you, it is supposed to be you versus the environment/NPC/game mechanics.  Nothing another player does is supposed to be able to have a negative impact on your game.  That would be PVP, so maybe you are in the wrong game mode.

I dont make sense? Maybe Im just incapable of making my point come across, since seeing all the replies to this thread blows my mind.

Yes, your idea sounds great, limited amount of land, check. Nobody can take the land from you, great, take all the land and nobody else can have any. Is that what you mean is that nice PVE feeling you want?

I made this topic specifically because im playing PVE and have to deal with PVP mechanics like taxes and have no way to fight it.

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51 minutes ago, Tomsey said:

I see that you missed the point of this thread

No, your point is simplistic. There's nothing to miss. We get your point, but that doesn't mean we don't think it is pretty stupid. You chose to settle where you did, man up and live with it. I don't see why you aren't considering moving to Lawless, because you aren't Claiming anyway, so you have nothing to lose on that score. Quit whimpering and go Lawless or go and contest a Claim if you don't want to pay taxes... Or sit there and keep complaining. Your choice.

Edited by Coggage
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13 minutes ago, Coggage said:

No, your point is simplistic. There's nothing to miss. We get your point, but that doesn't mean we don't think it is pretty stupid. You chose to settle where you did, man up and live with it. I don't see why you aren't considering moving to Lawless, because you aren't Claiming anyway, so you have nothing to lose on that score. Quit whimpering and go Lawless or go and contest a Claim if you don't want to pay taxes... Or sit there and keep complaining. Your choice.

Can you explain to me why you think companies should be allowed to tax areas and not face any consequenses for doing so?

Im actually interested in seeing your point of view, since you completely disagree with what I said, maybe Im missing something in the bigger picture, thank you.

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2 minutes ago, Tomsey said:

Can you explain to me why you think companies should be allowed to tax areas and not face any consequenses for doing so?

This was my thought. I believe it has merit and would solve a good deal of the issues while maintaining the integrity of the game.

 

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1 hour ago, Tomsey said:

Can you explain to me why you think companies should be allowed to tax areas and not face any consequenses for doing so?

Well, for a start he's putting up with you, and people like you, which IS a consequence!  Far more of a consequence than I'd bother putting up with.  Don't forget YOU settled on HIS turf, which nobody made you do and you did so KNOWING in advance there would be taxes, and you expect him to let you freeload for nothing?  😄   If there were no taxes making it worth his while, why would he take a risk allowing people to settle there in the first place?  Anyone could just arrive and pillar-spam the shit out of the place and just walk off laughing.  Even if he changes the permissions to Company only, to get rid of a griefer, he has a timer before he can demolish someone's structures, and I saw someone today complaining that even though the timer had elapsed he was not getting the option to demolish the offender's structures.

The other reason is that, like it or not, as far as the game mechanics are concerned you are a guest on someone else's territory and you pay for the privilege accordingly.  Nobody is going to let you do it for free.  Live with it or grow a pair and move on.  You were happy enough to settle on a Tax for Land basis in the first place, so quit your whining.

Edited by Coggage

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6 minutes ago, Coggage said:

Well, for a start he's putting up with you, and people like you, which IS a consequence!  Far more of a consequence than I'd bother putting up with.  Don't forget YOU settled on HIS turf, which nobody made you do and you did so KNOWING in advance there would be taxes, and you expect him to let you freeload for nothing?  😄   If there were no taxes making it worth his while, why would he take a risk allowing people to settle there in the first place?  Anyone could just arrive and pillar-spam the shit out of the place and just walk off laughing.  Even if he changes the permissions to Company only, to get rid of a griefer, he has a timer before he can demolish someone's structures, and I saw someone today complaining that even though the timer had elapsed he was not getting the option to demolish the offender's structures.

The other reason is that, like it or not, as far as the game mechanics are concerned you are a guest on someone else's territory and you pay for the privilege accordingly.  Nobody is going to let you do it for free.  Live with it or grow a pair and move on.  You were happy enough to settle on a Tax for Land basis in the first place, so quit your whining.

Do you think Im living on someones land? I own my own land with a flag, where I have a house and work for everything I got. Im not freeloading on someone else territory. However, I have to travel around on my Island to get resources.

The whole idea of mass land claims and taxes only work for PVP where there is a consequence to hold land and you need to fight for it. In PVE you holding alot of land and taxing it, you face no fears from other players aka there is only gains and no loss.

From my point of view = you do not deserve any of the resources on an island more than anybody else, you being able to hold several flags with pve protection and taxing other people is a flawed design and should be changed.

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2 hours ago, TacticalNatty said:

This was my thought. I believe it has merit and would solve a good deal of the issues while maintaining the integrity of the game.

 

Yes, a resource cost to hold flags active could work, anything to make it harder for a company to keep alot of land carefree is good imo.

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13 minutes ago, Tomsey said:

Do you think Im living on someones land? I own my own land with a flag, where I have a house and work for everything I got. Im not freeloading on someone else territory. However, I have to travel around on my Island to get resources.

Yet your original post says "I who also live in the area cannot do anything about the taxes. Their flags are pve protected and they can just sit in their base and take 30% of what I and everyone else gather in the area" so yes, you gave the impression you were on someone else's land.  You need to sharpen up your posting technique.

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I do think there should be some layers added to the tax system. In general I think the tax system is not too bad, but it just needs some added stuff so that it’s not just free resources for heavy land owners Some initial thoughts I think could be implemented in various forms.  Some are just ideas that might  not be “great”. As it stands now it’s just a very boring linear system that like op said has no consequence for jacking up taxes and no benefit to dropping taxes.

-Tax banks cost upkeep in gold. The game in general needs more gold sinks and this might be a perfect place, as it forces land owners to balance income vs. cost. The more areas you tax the more the upkeep costs.

-Tax banks require a tax collector in the area to enforce the taxes. NPC’s can be paid in gold to collect. In PvP, the NPC’s could be slaughtered and then no more taxes.

-Piracy skill tree has a thievery skill set, that allows players to “steal” a portion of their taxed resources. Could even be cool if it was like an active skill like “natures cry” where you pop it and you are stealing from the tax man

-More customization for tax rates and exceptions such as different areas or specific resources are taxed differently.

-A better trading system rather than NPC’s in Freeport for commodities, to benefit the players that travel the world finding all sorts of rare resources rather than sitting on their butts collecting taxes, but also benefit the taxers who have specific valuable resources on their property but not a whole lot else.

-taxed resources come in as generic resources used for building but not as commodities. This could potentially help the people who travel the globe farming rare resources, and allow taxers to not be sitting on 4.5 million straw, as they could change their tax rate for things. Could have some other negative impacts as well though.

 

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I ignore taxed areas and farm in the spaces between claims, send to be plentiful enough on our island, just have to travel a little further. Taxation is theft. 

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5 hours ago, Lews said:

I ignore taxed areas and farm in the spaces between claims, send to be plentiful enough on our island, just have to travel a little further. Taxation is theft. 

Our company message is literally "Taxation is theft, and we are thieves." 

30% btw 

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12 hours ago, AtlasRyan said:

I do think there should be some layers added to the tax system. In general I think the tax system is not too bad, but it just needs some added stuff so that it’s not just free resources for heavy land owners Some initial thoughts I think could be implemented in various forms.  Some are just ideas that might  not be “great”. As it stands now it’s just a very boring linear system that like op said has no consequence for jacking up taxes and no benefit to dropping taxes.

-Tax banks cost upkeep in gold. The game in general needs more gold sinks and this might be a perfect place, as it forces land owners to balance income vs. cost. The more areas you tax the more the upkeep costs.

-Tax banks require a tax collector in the area to enforce the taxes. NPC’s can be paid in gold to collect. In PvP, the NPC’s could be slaughtered and then no more taxes.

-Piracy skill tree has a thievery skill set, that allows players to “steal” a portion of their taxed resources. Could even be cool if it was like an active skill like “natures cry” where you pop it and you are stealing from the tax man

-More customization for tax rates and exceptions such as different areas or specific resources are taxed differently.

-A better trading system rather than NPC’s in Freeport for commodities, to benefit the players that travel the world finding all sorts of rare resources rather than sitting on their butts collecting taxes, but also benefit the taxers who have specific valuable resources on their property but not a whole lot else.

-taxed resources come in as generic resources used for building but not as commodities. This could potentially help the people who travel the globe farming rare resources, and allow taxers to not be sitting on 4.5 million straw, as they could change their tax rate for things. Could have some other negative impacts as well though.

 

Thank your for summing it up. 

 

-- Add in a cost adjustment based on tax rate too.

@Jatheish thoughts?

 

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On ‎1‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 9:19 PM, Tomsey said:

Companies claim big areas of land, they put tax on it. There is no consequences to this behaviour. Their flags are pve protected and they can just sit in their base and take 30% of what I and everyone else gather in the area.

Okay, trying to be neutral but I think there's some flaws here.  You seem to be having more of an issue with companies that have large claims where resources are located that only claim the area for the purpose of taxing anyone gathering those resources.  First thing, the devs sold the game as being about taking control of lots of territory and making profit from it.  One of the only ways to do that currently is taxes.  I wish you could sell crafted things to traders or something similar to make money but we can't.   Second thing, the game caters to the largest companies, which obviously isn't your play style.  Mine either, I switched to an unofficial PvPvE where PvP is only in certain areas and the rest is true PvE.  Moreso, I don't think many players want to log in once a day to reset claims, collect taxes, and log off.  Not really much fun in that.  Obviously there are some, just like the trolls who play only to overload rafts, lead alphas to your base, and use other exploits solely to ruin the experience for others.  Can't avoid them in games any more than in life.  There's always someone who doesn't care or just gets their kicks making others miserable.

I think the bigger issue for most of us is the fact that the game caters to groups that take so many claims.  Like someone else said in a different post, it's EVE in pirate skins.  It is not a pirate MMO.  Pirates would never form such large companies, and never try to hold and maintain such large claims.  It's an identity crisis.  If you want a pirate MMO you need to rely on unofficials and the modders.  The official game here is just a new flavor of what you find in so many other games.  

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On 1/19/2019 at 11:20 AM, HonestJohn said:

Okay, trying to be neutral but I think there's some flaws here.  You seem to be having more of an issue with companies that have large claims where resources are located that only claim the area for the purpose of taxing anyone gathering those resources.  First thing, the devs sold the game as being about taking control of lots of territory and making profit from it.  One of the only ways to do that currently is taxes.  I wish you could sell crafted things to traders or something similar to make money but we can't.   Second thing, the game caters to the largest companies, which obviously isn't your play style.  Mine either, I switched to an unofficial PvPvE where PvP is only in certain areas and the rest is true PvE.  Moreso, I don't think many players want to log in once a day to reset claims, collect taxes, and log off.  Not really much fun in that.  Obviously there are some, just like the trolls who play only to overload rafts, lead alphas to your base, and use other exploits solely to ruin the experience for others.  Can't avoid them in games any more than in life.  There's always someone who doesn't care or just gets their kicks making others miserable.

I think the bigger issue for most of us is the fact that the game caters to groups that take so many claims.  Like someone else said in a different post, it's EVE in pirate skins.  It is not a pirate MMO.  Pirates would never form such large companies, and never try to hold and maintain such large claims.  It's an identity crisis.  If you want a pirate MMO you need to rely on unofficials and the modders.  The official game here is just a new flavor of what you find in so many other games.  

I've been saying for days that the bank and claims need to have some upkeep costs as well as some kind of invasion or attack like you would get in conan exiles. It would fit in the context of the game to have people attack your bank to rob it as well as attack your claim flags in effort to take your land or just kill you for being around. Pvp you have to defend your structures and claims, in pve you have practically nothing to do with them after you place them besides visiting them every so often to reset timers or collect the resources.

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