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Drakie

taxation on pve is stupid

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on the island claim we got we only built a small stone castle and avoiding spawns to be interrupted while some of our neighbours have built massive gates-structures and their place is slow-dead spawn due to many buildings , so what do they do they go into the claim we got and empty it several times a day , so we set up the bank with 10% and now they stopped going into the claim we got and sit and wait for their dusin trees to spawn while our claim have 50+ trees-stone-salt-metal-crystals that is relative untouched , we have put the bank up so we can actually get materials if people come and empty it the bonus is if they do go farming the mats we get something outa it rather then people log in and the claim is in respawn phase 

 

the bank-tax aint perfect but it will act as a deterrent for some that wont pay the tax and you got a claim that is not always dead-harvested to death

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On 1/17/2019 at 10:03 PM, Daemon Cross said:

They release updates and patches frequently and try to incorporate them as we play instead of shutting down every 1/2 hour to fix something like other games I’ve played has. 

This is the problem with this game, it is the only EA game I've heard of that has had so many major updates, that it's at v14 in just 27 days after launch, for comparison 7 Days to Die just released v17.1 today and that came out in December 2013. I understand the game is EA, but the amount of stuff that's broken or just not balanced at all, makes me think a lot of values were just face slammed into the keyboard and not given any thought what so ever. not to mention the fact that their PVE servers are not safe from PVP. I accept server performance and login issues, as even AAA games have this problem at launch. But so many broken features, this game was released WAAY to early that it is actually damaging the games reputation by the amount of issues affecting the game that simply should not be there, even in an EA game.

In regard to the topic of taxation. I find it very acceptable, if somebody wants to take the resources from MY LAND then I want a cut of it, why should i lose all the resource on my property on a PVE server because somebody just showed up and harvested it all  who had no claim to it what so ever.. In PVP I expect this to happen as it gives you reason to build defenses and barriers, and also incites battles for land if a certain island has a good amount and variety of resources. It is basically no different to renting out a building for somebody to own a shop, you own the building, but for a price allow somebody else to use it.. that is co-operating...

Edited by Faicorf

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On 1/17/2019 at 3:36 PM, wildbill said:

This is the part I don't agree with. That just because someone gets to someplace first, puts down a claim flag, and then possibly never returns there, it is "their land". There should be no land ownership other than where you have a base, and the number of bases should be limited in PVE.

PVE is about cooperative play, claiming land and taxing people to harvest resources on it is the opposite of cooperative play, borders on griefing in my opinion. Not much different from blocking a resource with buildings or gates so only you can get to it.

What makes this worse, is that in order to make many of the BPs, you must get 2 or more different types of the same resource, so the game requires that you harvest resources at locations other than your main base. If everywhere you go to find these, there are land claims, you are going to get less of these resources if taxed.

THIS GAME IS A PIRATE GAME and personally i think they ruined the pirate feel to it  when they defaulted every thing to locked. so now i cant steal from you, and now you want  to come into my claim flag. that i sailed through days of rubber banding lag on launch to get ? that i i fought the vultures of doom for hours and the crocodiles who swam faster than michael phelps him self. you want to come clear cut my island ?well you sure can. and i cant stop you from mining 2 of the 4 metal nodes on my island. the other two some ass hat built a bed next to and they no longer spawn . s im at least  getting 30% of those nodes..  you want to come do a treasure map  you can and i cant stop you.. can i stop the army of the damned from spawning right in my barn and killing my cows and sheep.. can i stop it ? nope. but im getting 30% of those coins because you showed up and killed my tames that i spent hours farming the mats to build the taming hut. feeding. make the bucket to milk it and now i have to get on my boat . go sail 2 zones away to get another cow. hope it doesnt fall off the boat while bringing it back. or my boat gets sunk by a ship of the damned or a tornado.  and in return for all that time i just burned, the ship i just lost . and the new barn i have to build because having a barn on the ground floor is foolish.  because of you showing up. i could lose a cow , which could cost me a boat. and force me to rebuild my base because of the undead. and what do i  get a few gold coins and some mats .??  WOOOHOOO  the 30% doesnt even cover a tenth of what visitors can do in just a few seconds. 

that being said you dont like it move to the tundras where theres ZILLIONS of land claims available down there. oh  you dont want to live in the tundra? than search each island dropping claim flags looking for an uncontested one. they exist. i find a few  every day and i lose a few everyday  .

i just wish i could steal the mats you left on your smithy after i climbing picked through your window that you forgot to put a shudder on. so deal with the tax , or let me rob your smithy again.. and yah know what. once you get your own bank and your own spot and learn where the nodes spawn . youll love every bit of the tax you rake in yourself. 

this is PVE thats PIRATES vs ENVIROMENT. and your'e part of the

 

and i know i said YOU alot. but im not blaming you personally. im using the word YOU as someone tresspassing on my land. i hope you enjoy the game and come visit me any time. 😃  

 

 

Edited by Zestay
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On 1/17/2019 at 2:43 PM, Drakie said:

considering land claims are just a matter of who get's there first or who happens to find a claim to steal at the right time it just doesn't make much sense to have this mechanism on PvE.

Its poorly thought out and finding land is a major problem for all new players to the point of quieting in the first few days.

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9 minutes ago, Zestay said:

THIS GAME IS A PIRATE GAME and personally i think they ruined the pirate feel to it  when they defaulted very thing to locked. so now i cant steal from you and now you want  to come into my claim flag. that i sailed through days of rubber banding lag on launch to get ? that i i fought the vultures of doom for hours and the crocodiles who swam faster than michael phelps him self. you want to come clear cut my island ?well you cansure can. but im getting 30% of it. you dont like it move to the tundras theres ZILLIONS of land claims available down there. oh  you dont want to live in the tundra? than search each island dropping claim flags looking for an uncontested one. they exist. i find them every day and i tax them 30% all the same. and yah know what. they get stolen from me every day too. i just wish i could steal the mats you left on your smithy after i climbing picked through your window that you forgot to put a shudder on. so deal with the tax , and yah know what. once you get your own bank. youll love every bit of it yourself. 

 

What I didn't say, but I suppose I should, is I play on an unofficial server, like the majority of people do. Although for some reason, people in the forums always assume official server, and I keep forgetting that 🙂

Game play on many unofficial servers is very different than official, especially the PVE ones. I think what it means to be a pirate in this game is very fluid, don't stereotype it down to what you've seen in a few movies, most of them get it very wrong anyway.

So ya, if I don't want to play with you on an official (and I don't), I literally have thousands of unofficial servers to chose from, or I can rent my own for not all that much or setup my own on a linux box fairly cheap if I'm just that much of a geek 🙂

 

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On 1/18/2019 at 7:15 AM, =MGC=Ranger said:

So you fellas want to punish those of us who actually searched for land, claimed it and maintained it while you were too lazy to search? Sounds like a bunch of sour grapes from a bunch of millennials to me. Quit whining, get on your boat, and go find your own land. Its out there, quit expecting everyone to hand you everything. Work for it. 

If you do and someone comes on your land and takes your resources, you too will expect compensation. Thats how this works. The land owner isn't getting 30% for nothing, he/she is getting it for putting in the time and effort to find the land.

 

Edit: I thought I should add that we do not currently tax anyone yet. Yet being the key word. When I rank up enough to get the bank, be sure its going in!

 

 

On 1/18/2019 at 8:48 AM, cloWandering said:

I am happy to pay taxes to be able to gather resources on other players' lands.  They have been careful with their building so as to have not prevented the resources from respawning and they have not built huge walls around their claim so that nobody can access the less common resources.  It is nice when they are set to 10 or 15%, rather than 30%, but at least there are resources available there.  If I don't feel like paying taxes today, I go harvest in the lawless areas.  Nobody is forcing you to harvest only from people's claims.  We daily make trips to the nearest lawless server to get resources that are not as common on our island.  It's part of the fun for our group.  "Let's go make a fiber/metal/sap run!"  If your real problem is that you don't have a claim of your own, or you only have one and your buildings blocked resource respawn, then that is a different problem.  The tax mechanic is working well for what it was intended to do.

But they can put the claim back to company to stop you from using your bed. I had a 4x4 house and no shipyard can't put one on that part of the island  and one guy has the region one guy not a company. This is bs alot of the islands have parts you can't build on.

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On 1/17/2019 at 4:16 PM, Luxfere said:

Look you dont have to harvest there go somewhere else they will lower their taxes when no one farms stuff there anymore..

Ya, right. Where have you played that a griefer just goes away once he owns half the land on the server? They are just half way finished with "the game" at that point.

And yes, you pretty much do have to harvest there. Some types of resource are only in a few place on the whole map. Wouldn't be hard for someone to claim all of a particular resource if they got there first.

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On ‎1‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 3:48 AM, StefanKyle84 said:

The taxation bank among Human is wrong. The greedy lazy bastards will always like this system as long as they get from hard working players, free resources just like that by staying their your chair at home with their raised dick and from time to time login into the game to reset your captured land flags and collect the free resources! 

This is not a game where people can play normal, but it's sort of RUST or maybe REND and remember this is on A PVE server because on a PVP these Greedy Zergs caouldn't do such claims because they wont resist a day in fair fights for land. 

 

This a mess caused be Devs and their stupid idea within a Planet full of non Human players ! 

Something wrong with your thinking... The land claim owners are far from lazy. Do you have any idea how many hours it takes to claim a piece of land? You can build a Brig or two in the same amount of time. We have roughly 54 players and 62 land claims/145 ocean claims. We've spent hundreds of hours getting these land claims. How many hours have you spent searching or claiming land?

It has nothing to do with the taxes, however they do minimally help compensate for lost time capturing land. It's part of the game and a goal in the game to be one of the largest land owners. Think about our numbers for a moment. 54 members and 62 land claims.  That's slightly above 1 claim per person. Our company jumps between number six and number one on the leader board. All of the major land owning companies have similar numbers and claims.

Go find you some land and take it like we did.

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14 hours ago, wildbill said:

What I didn't say, but I suppose I should, is I play on an unofficial server, like the majority of people do. Although for some reason, people in the forums always assume official server, and I keep forgetting that 🙂

Game play on many unofficial servers is very different than official, especially the PVE ones. I think what it means to be a pirate in this game is very fluid, don't stereotype it down to what you've seen in a few movies, most of them get it very wrong anyway.

So ya, if I don't want to play with you on an official (and I don't), I literally have thousands of unofficial servers to chose from, or I can rent my own for not all that much or setup my own on a linux box fairly cheap if I'm just that much of a geek 🙂

 

That's probably because if you are complaining on official forums about an unofficial server. You are complaining in the wrong place.

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6 hours ago, Gaxon said:

That's probably because if you are complaining on official forums about an unofficial server. You are complaining in the wrong place.

So that is what people think? That is the dumbest thing I've heard yet. I'm playing the same game on an unofficial server as people play on the official servers, just a smaller map and different mixture of islands.

It is called the official forums because it is hosted by Grapeshot, not because it is only for the official servers. There are also privately run forums and of course the steam forums, those are not just for unofficial servers, lots of people post in those that play the official servers.

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Taxes and land claims are pointless systems in a pve environment because they don't add any new content to complete. You place them, and that's it. Add in some upkeep and attacks by npcs and they both work. Without anything to do with them after placing them, they are just pointless annoyances to have in the game. I believe sea claims should also be removed altogether since they basically are worth nothing. Just crap people spam to increase their claim numbers which again, has no real gameplay value whatsoever. 

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10 hours ago, wildbill said:

So that is what people think? That is the dumbest thing I've heard yet. I'm playing the same game on an unofficial server as people play on the official servers, just a smaller map and different mixture of islands.

It is called the official forums because it is hosted by Grapeshot, not because it is only for the official servers. There are also privately run forums and of course the steam forums, those are not just for unofficial servers, lots of people post in those that play the official servers.

A lot of the things you complain about aren’t even in the official servers. Think about that for a second. 

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11 hours ago, Gaxon said:

A lot of the things you complain about aren’t even in the official servers. Think about that for a second. 

There you go again, thinking this forum is only here to discuss issues with the official servers.

I may occasionally mention things that don't apply to official servers, but almost all issues with the game apply to both official and unofficial servers.

I've talked about Griefers using a tax bank, people claiming huge amounts of land that they don't need, that the PVE game is just one big land claim game. These are all problems with the official servers, but also can occur on the unofficial unless the server has a rule against it (but they usually only make the rule after someone does this stuff). In my opinion, a tax bank and unlimited land claims have no business in PVE.

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On 1/21/2019 at 9:42 AM, wildbill said:

There you go again, thinking this forum is only here to discuss issues with the official servers.

I may occasionally mention things that don't apply to official servers, but almost all issues with the game apply to both official and unofficial servers.

I've talked about Griefers using a tax bank, people claiming huge amounts of land that they don't need, that the PVE game is just one big land claim game. These are all problems with the official servers, but also can occur on the unofficial unless the server has a rule against it (but they usually only make the rule after someone does this stuff). In my opinion, a tax bank and unlimited land claims have no business in PVE.

I’m just going to ignore you. No point in debating with a wall. Official forums discussing unofficial game play. Sheer genius. Next, you’re going to tell us these are not official forums. 

Edited by Gaxon

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26 minutes ago, Gaxon said:

I’m just going to ignore you. No point in debating with a wall. Official forums discussing unofficial game play. Sheer genius. Next, you’re going to tell us these are not official forums. 

Ya, I guess you never heard of an word in the English language that has more than one meaning 🙂

So when I have a question or comment about the game Atlas, where do you think I should post it? The unofficial forums?

Edited by wildbill

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5 hours ago, wildbill said:

Ya, I guess you never heard of an word in the English language that has more than one meaning 🙂

So when I have a question or comment about the game Atlas, where do you think I should post it? The unofficial forums?

What he's getting at, is that while you can post here.  Most on official won't be able to understand your viewpoint, this is because what you see and experience on a daily basis isn't what everyone on official is going to.  So when discussing the official settings and the way official is handled it's kind of important to keep on topic.  What you experience from a very controlled environment where in a small group of people is actually providing some level of server support and maintaining a balance so that griefing doesn't happen and so on.  Is a far cry from what is on official, official is a trolls paradise if they are not reigned in properly.

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2 hours ago, Vaenix said:

What he's getting at, is that while you can post here.  Most on official won't be able to understand your viewpoint, this is because what you see and experience on a daily basis isn't what everyone on official is going to.  So when discussing the official settings and the way official is handled it's kind of important to keep on topic.  What you experience from a very controlled environment where in a small group of people is actually providing some level of server support and maintaining a balance so that griefing doesn't happen and so on.  Is a far cry from what is on official, official is a trolls paradise if they are not reigned in properly.

Yes, I have played on official, just long enough to know I don't ever want to play there if I can avoid it. I just don't need anyone telling me I can't post here because I don't play on the official servers. More than half the players of this game do not play on official servers, so feedback from those people for this game is just as important as those who do play on the official servers.

Server operators need options to disable things like the Bank or change it in such a way that makes sense for an unofficial server. And the way that most people play PVE on unofficials, means that taxation is even more dumb than it is on the officials.

Yes, I need to mention that I'm talking about an unofficial server when that makes a difference. In this case, I think I can say taxation is like griefing, and that applies to both official and unofficial servers. Yes, we still have trolls on unofficial servers. The difference is, a troll is what the server owner or his admins say it is. They define it. On officials, it is the players who call someone a troll, and only game rules will mostly do anything about it. Good game rules also help a unofficial server operator too and make his job just that much easier, so yes, feedback here is still very important for the unofficial servers. Of course an admin on an unofficial server is much more likely to boot a troll than on official, which is one of the reasons I play there 🙂

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On ‎1‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 1:20 PM, Zestay said:

THIS GAME IS A PIRATE GAME and personally i think they ruined the pirate feel to it  when they defaulted every thing to locked. so now i cant steal from you, and now you want  to come into my claim flag. that i sailed through days of rubber banding lag on launch to get ? that i i fought the vultures of doom for hours and the crocodiles who swam faster than michael phelps him self. you want to come clear cut my island ?well you sure can. and i cant stop you from mining 2 of the 4 metal nodes on my island. the other two some ass hat built a bed next to and they no longer spawn . s im at least  getting 30% of those nodes..  you want to come do a treasure map  you can and i cant stop you.. can i stop the army of the damned from spawning right in my barn and killing my cows and sheep.. can i stop it ? nope. but im getting 30% of those coins because you showed up and killed my tames that i spent hours farming the mats to build the taming hut. feeding. make the bucket to milk it and now i have to get on my boat . go sail 2 zones away to get another cow. hope it doesnt fall off the boat while bringing it back. or my boat gets sunk by a ship of the damned or a tornado.  and in return for all that time i just burned, the ship i just lost . and the new barn i have to build because having a barn on the ground floor is foolish.  because of you showing up. i could lose a cow , which could cost me a boat. and force me to rebuild my base because of the undead. and what do i  get a few gold coins and some mats .??  WOOOHOOO  the 30% doesnt even cover a tenth of what visitors can do in just a few seconds.  

that being said you dont like it move to the tundras where theres ZILLIONS of land claims available down there. oh  you dont want to live in the tundra? than search each island dropping claim flags looking for an uncontested one. they exist. i find a few  every day and i lose a few everyday  .

i just wish i could steal the mats you left on your smithy after i climbing picked through your window that you forgot to put a shudder on. so deal with the tax , or let me rob your smithy again.. and yah know what. once you get your own bank and your own spot and learn where the nodes spawn . youll love every bit of the tax you rake in yourself. 

this is PVE thats PIRATES vs ENVIROMENT. and your'e part of the

 

and i know i said YOU alot. but im not blaming you personally. im using the word YOU as someone tresspassing on my land. i hope you enjoy the game and come visit me any time. 😃  

 

 

I agree with a lot of what you said. I don't mind them unlocking things again. I don't even care that I have to protect thieves from climbing in through windows. A little bit of having to design security is fine with me even in PVE. Hell you can even bring back smithe ship sinking, and force people to find better ways to hide your smithe in your boat, or maybe the game just doesnt let other players put things in. What I cant stand is the force taxing with no way around it and no mechanic to enforce the taxes....by your logic I am a pirate. Pirates don't blindly pay taxes.

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Taxation is actually smart, they are making this game as close to being realistic as possible back in pirate days something i will post i dont find is right but I have no problem giving up 10-20 percent . These people who own the lands have to always make sure flags are set , make sure people are not building on resource spawns etc basically a landlord. You dont even notice giving matts . Passed week farmed over 130k in wood and yes my one landlord in the area i run a  trading post received 30k wood and didnt even bother me. 

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Do what I do, only gather from lawless regions and just don't bother with territory regions unless you absolutely know its worth going there for a good harvest. You are taking resources from there territory, taxation is fair for the idea of having land. PvE or PvP I don't see why it should change

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