taxation on pve is stupid

[Drakie 6]

considering land claims are just a matter of who get's there first or who happens to find a claim to steal at the right time it just doesn't make much sense to have this mechanism on PvE.

[Daemon Cross 225]

I don’t mind the taxation, I’ve wiped my plot of land clean from harvesting materials, if another land owner is willing to allow me to harvest their mats at a small cost, well I’m all for it because if I had to wait for stuff to regenerate on my land alone I would never get anything done. I don’t know if it’s set up to where you can’t harvest mats from said land owners but that would be bad

[KeyenDF 19]

9 minutes ago, Daemon Cross said:

I don’t mind the taxation, I’ve wiped my plot of land clean from harvesting materials, if another land owner is willing to allow me to harvest their mats at a small cost, well I’m all for it because if I had to wait for stuff to regenerate on my land alone I would never get anything done. I don’t know if it’s set up to where you can’t harvest mats from said land owners but that would be bad

I agree whole-heartedly with this ^^

 

30% tax is the most they can do.  cant stop you from harvesting on their land, unless they physically wall it off somehow, or foundation spam it (which stops them as well).

[=MGC=Ranger 77]

36 minutes ago, Drakie said:

considering land claims are just a matter of who get's there first or who happens to find a claim to steal at the right time it just doesn't make much sense to have this mechanism on PvE.

There are land claims available for sure. If you think sailing to one or two islands youre gonna find one, keep dreaming. That being said,  I have found 4 places so far to claim (settled on my favorite). There is land out there, you just have to learn to sail and have patience. may take you a couple of weeks (like it did me) but you will find land. As far as taxation? I have no issues with it. If someone is going to wipe out my resources, I expect compensation and have no issues paying my neighbor his 30% to harvest his.

 

[wildbill 142]

32 minutes ago, KeyenDF said:

I agree whole-heartedly with this ^^

 

30% tax is the most they can do.  cant stop you from harvesting on their land, unless they physically wall it off somehow, or foundation spam it (which stops them as well).

This is the part I don't agree with. That just because someone gets to someplace first, puts down a claim flag, and then possibly never returns there, it is "their land". There should be no land ownership other than where you have a base, and the number of bases should be limited in PVE.

PVE is about cooperative play, claiming land and taxing people to harvest resources on it is the opposite of cooperative play, borders on griefing in my opinion. Not much different from blocking a resource with buildings or gates so only you can get to it.

What makes this worse, is that in order to make many of the BPs, you must get 2 or more different types of the same resource, so the game requires that you harvest resources at locations other than your main base. If everywhere you go to find these, there are land claims, you are going to get less of these resources if taxed.

Edited January 17, 2019 by wildbill

[Rask 13]

It is stupid because there is nothing you can do to contest the tax or claim.  

 

[freakytroll 1]

3 minutes ago, wildbill said:

This is the part I don't agree with. That just because someone gets to someplace first, puts down a claim flag, and then possibly never returns there, it is "their land". There should be no land ownership other than where you have a base, and the number of bases should be limited in PVE.

PVE is about cooperative play, claiming land and taxing people to harvest resources on it is the opposite of cooperative play, borders on griefing in my opinion. Not much different from blocking a resource with buildings or gates so only you can get to it.

if they never return to that land like u said they gonna loose that land really fast lol do you still play the game????

[wildbill 142]

Just now, freakytroll said:

if they never return to that land like u said they gonna loose that land really fast lol do you still play the game????

Well I play PVE on unofficial server. Most unofficials do not allow stealing a claim. So ya, I play, and yes, they don't lose it.

[freakytroll 1]

3 minutes ago, wildbill said:

Well I play PVE on unofficial server. Most unofficials do not allow stealing a claim. So ya, I play, and yes, they don't lose it.

read ur self UNOFFICIALS cmon dont be silly......if they remove the stealing there is no point of complaining about stuff if the server is the problem xD ask then to remove tax on that unofficial server also might help

[Daemon Cross 225]

I agree, the only way people keep anything is by visiting it at least I’d say once a day or log out in a secured location to keep from being killed, anyone who plays on a unofficial server has no room to complain about anything, the host of a unofficial server can adjust pretty much anything they may choose, it’s kinda like enabling god mode in a game, you want 100’s of resources from each node, you want enemies to die with one arrow, you want to fly instead of walk ? Well ? Those of us who play on the official servers complain about bugs, exploits or things that the developers may have missed, after all the testing period to make this game great is supposed to last two years and then they are going to raise the cost of the game to 60.00 US if I remember right. We are all dealing with a “work in progress” title that I for one am proud to be able to enjoy. They release updates and patches frequently and try to incorporate them as we play instead of shutting down every 1/2 hour to fix something like other games I’ve played has. 

[hands solo 14]

Your missing the point - its a game not a life sim with the rich getting richer. We all paid for the game why should some have more land and rights than others. Rent would only occur and be the same for all in freeport, a rented dock space for your ship, a rented store or shop or even office. For this to occur they would need far more freeports and a far more npc presence. 

Your building should be your claim and the timer should be 7 days - whereby if you dont log in it can be demolished like in lawless now but this should be everywhere. Space available to build is by distance from your first foundation and only ONE foundational claim is allowed per island per person. Ships allow people to live at sea, so effectually your build your ship and move on. Anchored ships should have a two month log on period after which again, decay occurs (maybe only in lawless).  Freeport you should be able to rent a docking spot, which would be your red circle. Any freeport you should have to pay gold to dock perhaps if over a day. Instead of demolish on ships they would decay to destroyed if you dont log on. I have been playing from the outset and built a nice little site on a lawless. Some guy has since demolished everything ( i couldnt log in for personal reasons) and set up a ridiculously large claim by laying foundations, hes put two one either side of my own boat in MY OWN claim. Greedy is the word. Im not too fussed about the demolishments but it is the greed that gets me, and the lack of consideration, plus hes a fookin noob on the island. 

This above will sort the land claim shit out absolutely and is totally fair. It isnt unreasonable for a game developer to expect their players to log in at least once a week, once every day or even three days however is too much imo.

One of the main issues really for the game developers to contend with is what the actual game IS. The problem is that there IS NO GAME per se. If you cant spend your money or buy stuff and sell stuff, any PVE will struggle to have any game within it. PVP yeh - your aim is to become the emperor of the world. PVE - to become the richest - the legendary or a pirate (non of which are possible). There has to be a GAME in an mmo GAME. Otherwise its a sim. I think one great way hardly if at all implemented in any mmo, would be to claim a winner after 2 years. Each game lasts two years, the richest player wins. Wipe the servers and start again. All stuff has to be accountable and worth something in game for this to work and at the end everything you have accrued is valued. You could also account for sotd - ie numbers killed lvls killed etc etc. All these stats could be accountable and relevant even taming animals and SELLING animals ships etc. A points system on top of the gold. Some would say that xp is the points system and as such your lvl reflects your game play, but thats not what I mean. Kill a sotd at lvl 4 you get say 10 points on your kill sotd stats. Sell a ship to another player you get say 15 points on your trade stats, after two years all stats are listed with an overall winner and winners of the varying qualities of gameplay. 

MMO's can get so very very boring unless you CAN WIN SOMETHING - PERIOD and im afraid to say there is NO purpose to do anything in Atlas PVE as yet. I wait with baited breath both for Atlas and for life is feudal re-release. PURPOSE  - PURPOSE  - PURPOSE to PLAY - Else its a sim and most sims have the ability to compete against other players in tournies so there is a purpose in getting better. 

 

Basically all you have is a survival sim and quite a good one, at this time. Once you have built your base and a ship even if its only a sloop - the survival aspect is conquered and there is nothing really left to do. Build a bigger ship - why ? Collect more resources whats the point, I cant sell them or trade anything. Kill the boss or the pirates - wtf for I cant buy another ship if mine gets sunk -ive got to make another one. Tame animals - wht for ? To collect resources that I have no use for ?

J

Edited January 17, 2019 by hands solo

[Drakie 6]

1 hour ago, Rask said:

It is stupid because there is nothing you can do to contest the tax or claim.  

 

exactly, the reason why on PvP it's a decent system is because you can fight over the claim, but on PvE all a company has to do is run around to refresh the timer on it every day and they just get freakin 30% ...

 

the whole system is bad enough, but that's hard to fix, it's an easy fix to disable taxation on PvE though because it simply doesn't make sense anymore.

[B3rry 2]

40 minutes ago, hands solo said:

Basically all you have is a survival sim and quite a good one, at this time. Once you have built your base and a ship even if its only a sloop - the survival aspect is conquered and there is nothing really left to do. Build a bigger ship - why ? Collect more resources whats the point, I cant sell them or trade anything. Kill the boss or the pirates - wtf for I cant buy another ship if mine gets sunk -ive got to make another one. Tame animals - wht for ? To collect resources that I have no use for ?

I'm with you on claimed lands/taxes on PVE official.  It's not a good system.  I can understand taxing a little, but with some claim flags being bugged, and with some people logged out in their claim sleeping for days on end, there needs to be a better solution to contest and take their claim.  Honestly, I think the whole area (besides freeports) ought to be lawless.  If you log out for a number of days, then it doesn't really matter if your stuff can get demolished.  You're either not coming back at all, or it'll be months and the land masses just aren't big enough to allow new people to play if they can't be demolished.

However, with what I quoted... I'd much rather have this freedom of choice - or for you, no reason to do anything - than a game on rails like all other MMOs.  I have complete freedom to do whatever I want to do.  I can trade with friends and with strangers.  I can buy their stuff with gold or they can buy mine with gold or some other barter worked out.  It's not very piratey like it was the first few days where you could get into windows and take stuff from smithys, etc., but I'm okay with that too.  I chose the PvE life at the start, so it is what it is.  If I want to kill other players and steal more stuff for more RP like things, then I can roll on a PvP server.

I don't need no stinking quests and restrictions on what talent tree I want to delve into.  I have my priorities, it varies from everyone elses.  And same goes for everyone else.

[Rambone 2]

As a server owner myself and one who runs a PVE server I am not sure removing claim flags is such a good idea. I mean if there are no claims then what would stop people from building on top of you? Claim spamming is the real issue and maybe limiting the amount of claims a company can place would make more sense. I'm sure some groups would form multiple companies and then a large alliance to get around this but we can restrict alliances and company member capacities to a point. I have mine adjusted.

The spamming is a real issue. Not on my private server but on official for sure.

Edited January 18, 2019 by Rambone

[Luxfere 90]

Look you dont have to harvest there go somewhere else they will lower their taxes when no one farms stuff there anymore..

[hands solo 14]

Look people there is no game here other than the survival aspect. the op above says he or she can trade = thats not trade mate, shouting an advert on the game forum or pmming someone asking them if they want to buy a bundle of something they can very easily get themselves. Yeh resources will always be 'tradeable' on the forum, but thats not the point. You need to be able to sell your junk to the npc trader. You need to access people you DONT know. Pretty much everything that is dropped in the containers is junk including the bp's. Who the fuck is going to build a house with a bp that offers a 14% increase on a wooden ceiling and only 81 possible units ? Re-spec your skills and you can build with stone, not that it makes much difference. 

If there are missions it doesnt mean you have to do them mate....! IT would be optional, but some people like missions (not me per se). CHOICE indeed IS the main aspect. Determining NO MISSIONS restricts from that choice taht other players may WANT. 

Adain solo sail with solo gunnery is needed perhaps only on the sloop and the schooner with crew being needed for the beig and galleon. More ships are needed. i had an idea to implement a form of pvp in the game whereby players could overthrow by boarding and killing undead the ghost ships. Once boarded that ship becomes YOURS. You can then fast travel to any lawless square and kill other players or be killed by players. You can also set up your pirate base and defend it. You need different size ghost ships not just different lvls, also far more choice in regards to building ships, which MUST  include the ability for solo players to destroy npc's, I say solo sail (AGAIN IT WOULD BE OPTIONAL but i can tell you right now that if there was a solo sail and gunnery skill EVERYONE would train it regardless of their moaning about  how its better with a crew. Again and i stress over and over again YOU DONT HAVE TO TRAIN IT (but you will) ..!

Yawn Yawn another case of programmers that cant and dont have what it takes to make a game....! Oh yes they can programme BUT there is a massive difference...!

Ill create a decent game, 'all' you have to do is programme it. Im board now and resign myself to having to watch another mmo fail. As a pvp game you have a basic foundation as a pve game your millions of miles away from anything that is even reasonable, other than a very basic survival game which has been done a million times essentially.

J

54 minutes ago, Luxfere said:

Look you dont have to harvest there go somewhere else they will lower their taxes when no one farms stuff there anymore..

I couldnt give a fuck about their taxes I aint doing it period, taxes for harvesting resources ive already paid to be able to harvest - get stuffed.

J

[pope_kd 36]

The taxes are the cost for making me wait for a resource respawn on my own property. Go farm your own land if you want it for free. Don't have the same resources as me? Sucks, but that's why I grabbed the plots I got, you don't just get to walk on my shit and inconvenience me for free dummy. 

[StefanKyle84 61]

The taxation bank among Human is wrong. The greedy lazy bastards will always like this system as long as they get from hard working players, free resources just like that by staying their your chair at home with their raised dick and from time to time login into the game to reset your captured land flags and collect the free resources! 

This is not a game where people can play normal, but it's sort of RUST or maybe REND and remember this is on A PVE server because on a PVP these Greedy Zergs caouldn't do such claims because they wont resist a day in fair fights for land. 

 

This a mess caused be Devs and their stupid idea within a Planet full of non Human players ! 

Edited January 18, 2019 by StefanKyle84

[HonestJohn 6]

The taxation idea makes perfect sense if you have a PVE game where a group of friends has found and claimed a small area for themselves and has limited resources there for them to use to build their base and ships.  Without it, as has been shown again and again, they will constantly have people coming from other areas to strip away the resources on their claim and will not be able to make progress themselves.  The whole reason for a claim is to have a place to build at with some resources to use.  We had a 2-flag claim for a group of several players on a small island and all we wanted was to harvest the trees and metal there to build with, but every night we logged in to find rafts on the shores and all the trees and nodes gone.  Without taxation we never would have had enough resources to do anything ourselves but build rafts.  Of course it can be abused, PVE is half full of people who abuse every aspect of the game, but the intended use is completely valid and correct.

[uaf 47]

How is getting 700 gold from a 2100 gold from doing nothing but being in the area of a treasure hunt a good thing?

I don't mind taxing the resources on the land, because they are farming something you might want to farm as well (considering you didn't claim a whole fking island). But taxing treasure finds ? really ? I risk life and limb, armors, fire arrows, dodging SOTDs, etc to go on the other side of the map so somebody else can just take 30% gold while doing nothing ?

[=MGC=Ranger 77]

So you fellas want to punish those of us who actually searched for land, claimed it and maintained it while you were too lazy to search? Sounds like a bunch of sour grapes from a bunch of millennials to me. Quit whining, get on your boat, and go find your own land. Its out there, quit expecting everyone to hand you everything. Work for it. 

If you do and someone comes on your land and takes your resources, you too will expect compensation. Thats how this works. The land owner isn't getting 30% for nothing, he/she is getting it for putting in the time and effort to find the land.

 

Edit: I thought I should add that we do not currently tax anyone yet. Yet being the key word. When I rank up enough to get the bank, be sure its going in!

 

Edited January 18, 2019 by =MGC=Ranger

[Luxfere 90]

6 hours ago, StefanKyle84 said:

The taxation bank among Human is wrong. The greedy lazy bastards will always like this system as long as they get from hard working players, free resources just like that by staying their your chair at home with their raised dick and from time to time login into the game to reset your captured land flags and collect the free resources! 

This is not a game where people can play normal, but it's sort of RUST or maybe REND and remember this is on A PVE server because on a PVP these Greedy Zergs caouldn't do such claims because they wont resist a day in fair fights for land. 

 

This a mess caused be Devs and their stupid idea within a Planet full of non Human players ! 

10% of 10 is 1 so quit your crying

[cloWandering 21]

I am happy to pay taxes to be able to gather resources on other players' lands.  They have been careful with their building so as to have not prevented the resources from respawning and they have not built huge walls around their claim so that nobody can access the less common resources.  It is nice when they are set to 10 or 15%, rather than 30%, but at least there are resources available there.  If I don't feel like paying taxes today, I go harvest in the lawless areas.  Nobody is forcing you to harvest only from people's claims.  We daily make trips to the nearest lawless server to get resources that are not as common on our island.  It's part of the fun for our group.  "Let's go make a fiber/metal/sap run!"  If your real problem is that you don't have a claim of your own, or you only have one and your buildings blocked resource respawn, then that is a different problem.  The tax mechanic is working well for what it was intended to do.

[pope_kd 36]

12 hours ago, StefanKyle84 said:

The taxation bank among Human is wrong. The greedy lazy bastards will always like this system as long as they get from hard working players, free resources just like that by staying their your chair at home with their raised dick and from time to time login into the game to reset your captured land flags and collect the free resources!

Dumb take.

It makes even MORE sense in PVE, since in PVP if you don't want someone taking your resources, you just shoot them. That's not possible on PVE, so there needs to be some downside to farming on property that belongs to other people.

[BoomerMcFisticuffs 12]

4 hours ago, pope_kd said:

Dumb take.

It makes even MORE sense in PVE, since in PVP if you don't want someone taking your resources, you just shoot them. That's not possible on PVE, so there needs to be some downside to farming on property that belongs to other people.

Well... Shit... That actually makes a lot of sense to be honest.

I still think the taxation and claim system is stupid and should be removed. Not because I don't like taxes or I can't find land. It's just a boring mechanic with no real gameplay involved or attached to it other than walking around your area to reset protection and building a bank. It is in no way an entertaining or attractive idea to me. Land claims should be subject to invasions by npcs who can destroy flags and should come in different variants. Taxes should come with a cost in gold to run or require an npc per x amount of flags to collect taxes, just something to make it less of a sit back and stroke yourself while profiting kind of gameplay. This should also have an invasion of sorts since people have started revolutions before because of taxes... If they don't intend to expand on the gameplay involved with the tax and claim system, just ditch them. It's boring the way it is. If they plan on expanding them sometime soonish, then fine, let them stay.

 

Just my thoughts. This is an early access game and still in development so why not throw the devs ideas on what I would think make the game better.