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FruitBatCat

Why would anyone rent land?

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They can leave the tax but a major change is needed in the claim system , and this coming from a guy thats been playing the game 2hr after the release and had all the claims stolen while sleeping/at work. If they want new players they need to add a claim limit and cost/upkeep if you go over it . Thats the only way i can see pve turn out playable for new players/ people that have lost it all and had to restart from scratch. Il give them that its early access and this coming from someone that has had his ships griefed , wolf spawn inside house while sleeping and killing me and lost my claim thanks to it . Most of my 190 h of play time is searching for land i could claim after having to restart from almost 0 , 4 times . One time had to relevel a totally new char. Now im building on tundra thats totally frozen over and i would not even be suppriced if i logg on tomorrow and its claimed as well , cause the 3 day protection timer should be over now and with all the work + a 6h drive i havnt even managed to log on and refresh them . For a PVE game in its current form it sure needs a lot of commitment , that most players cant afford. Most of us are here just to relax after a long work day and build something . But its not fun when almost every time you log on you have to start again from nothing. Heck i can say ive gotten quite good at starting now only 20 min to get out of freeport with a sloop , smithy, large storage and bed. About an hr if i want to change the sails out for medium and get fur clothes most of that time spent farming turtles for the shells , for something that has a huge a55 shell on its back it sure gives a low a55 nr of them about 5 on avg. Not even gonna start with elephants big boned animals give tons of hide but only like 2 bones on avg...... Well this turned into a random rant but oh well here you guys have it.

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3 hours ago, MindOfMadness said:

Have them help you get a tame?...  Sail with them?...

Nobody is your slave and if you try to control people it will be you that has the bad time.

Control people? It's called being social. If they want land, and I have it, I'd hope they want to have a good relationship. It's worked for us so far. You've got a hell of a chip on your shoulder. There was nothing controlling about anything I said. We ask if they would want to hang with us for a few so we could get to know them...

Edited by Recloud

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8 hours ago, Recloud said:

Those of you who think other people owning land which you have to rent or buy from them is a "garbage system", just wait until you want your own home in real life. "But they got here first and spend more time on this than I do! Why don't I get my land for free?" Let me know how that works out for you in the real world. Yeah, this is a game, but the system isn't a foreign one... Other people own it, and either want to sell or they don't. You just have to deal with it.

I do own my own home, I worked for it. I did not get it for free by just being the first to turn up there. I also didn't claim the whole street or neighborhood just because I felt like it and no-one else was there yet.  Your analogy isn't a very good one tbh.

I could understand the claim / land system more if it was based on some kind of deed system where companies tackle a tough boss, or collect a number of hidden artifacts from all around the map to entitle them to the deed / deeds. Those deeds would have to be maintained with continued daring feats or even gold. Then it would take teamwork and some element of co-ordination, tenacity or skill. Just turning up and claiming at much as you want is very empty, says nothing about the owner and seems out of place in a social game about politics. Leave a sleeping company member (could even be a alt account on family sharing) inside a house on a claim and it can never be contested... ever. What's dynamic or political about that?

Atm MOST players (and all players to join in the future, hopefully for years) are pretty much locked out of the claiming system in PVE. Not a good situation imo and I feel it needs modifying - I'm still open to changing my mind if someone can explain why the system is good but so far anyone pro the current system has just been people keen to retain their already claimed land accusing debaters of being jealous or implying sticking a flag up is hard work and they deserve it. No-one has come up with why it is a good system for the game.

I still stick with my original opinion that living on lawless without tax or potential for legitimate griefing is better (we all know exploits and griefing not intended by the devs are rife in the game atm but hopefully those issues will be tackled over time, and that's a different issue) - but am still open to having my mind changed.

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So, my thinking may be completely off, but it goes something like this:

1) Say I build on Lawless.  Even though I'm busy IRL, no problem, I can manage to log in often enough to keep what I've built.

Now, say I want to travel the high seas.  I'm in one corner of the world, and I want to sail to the other corner.  I need to make sure I organize my time both in-game and IRL so that I sail to where I'm going, get to spend some time there, and sail back before the 4 day timer expires.  No matter what I do on my travels, I have to get back in time.  If I decided to build another place on the other side of the world?  I have to be sure I can go back and forth within every 4 day period to keep both.

Keep in mind, Real Life takes precedence.  If the dog needs out, or the baby needs the remote(what do I know), I'm grabbing the nearest island and tending to real life.

OR...

2)  I work something out with a landlord and build there.  Sure, I pay a tax, and hopefully a reasonable one.  If I have a business trip for a week, I might lose all my stuff, but unlike Lawless it is not more likely on Day 5 than it was on Day 3.

Now, I again want to travel the high seas.  I find a tropical paradise full of pretty people with diamond studded peg-legs.  I want to stay there a while.  I talk to a local landlord, work something out, build.

I now have two places that don't need my immediate attention each within 4 days.  Maybe I go far north, meet a nice Yeti lady.  She owns some land.  Now I have 3 places.

In the meantime, all these places have different variations of resources I can bring back to my other landlords when I go back to that home. 

SO...

If you don't mind staying close to home and like the certainty of things being in your control, Lawless makes sense.

If you think you'll get kinda bored staying in the same area, and you have the sailor's bug... no, not that bug, that's gross, have it looked at.  I mean the travel bug... and Real Life makes rigid time-tables in-game difficult, renting might make sense.

Again, could be completely off, but there goes my thinking.  I'm still working on rented home #1 so it's rather theoretical.

 

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2 hours ago, Kveldulf said:

1)  I have to be sure I can go back and forth within every 4 day period to keep both.

Just teleport with the beds, instantly touch all zones you control.

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Rental can or could only work on a  created structure basis. Yes you have created a building and you rent out a room. You have created a harbour and you rent a docking space.

Rental and taxation for resources is beyond a joke its pathetic and wont or at least shouldn't work. Remember we have already paid real money to be able to harvest resources. 

 

J

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17 hours ago, Recloud said:

Control people? It's called being social. If they want land, and I have it, I'd hope they want to have a good relationship. It's worked for us so far. You've got a hell of a chip on your shoulder. There was nothing controlling about anything I said. We ask if they would want to hang with us for a few so we could get to know them...

Asking if someone wants to help you is not the same as "Have them help you get a tame"...  how do you "have" anybody do anything if not by control? Especially if there is no benefit because in reality you can still tell them to go fly a kite after they worked for you without any payment...  What would that be called? Oh yeah, slavery.

 

Being social is communicating... in no part of the definition of "social" requires one to work for the other.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/social

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I honestly got tired of reading the replies in this topic, I didn't want to rent because it was too easy for someone to be a dick and take my stuff. Now that I've joined a new company that is larger and has some land, I'd totally want to rent it out to let some people build and live just to get the extra income in mats. Thinking about it, this is probably how they thought we'd get this player run port cities, but I just don't see it happening, not with the current iteration of this system. There really isn't enough depth to it to see a town actually get built up and going. 

Edited by BoomerMcFisticuffs

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43 minutes ago, BoomerMcFisticuffs said:

I honestly got tired of reading the replies in this topic, I didn't want to rent because it was too easy for someone to be a dick and take my stuff. Now that I've joined a new company that is larger and has some land, I'd totally want to rent it out to let some people build and live just to get the extra income in mats. Thinking about it, this is probably how they thought we'd get this player run port cities, but I just don't see it happening, not with the current iteration of this system. There really isn't enough depth to it to see a town actually get built up and going. 

For such things to work there needs to be a governing body to mediate evictions and disputes, just as there is in the real world.

Without any sort of protection from the "elite class" there will always be those that take advantage of the plebs and therefor chaos by those that will not bend the knee because there is no benefit to the action, only vulnerability.

Edited by MindOfMadness

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30 minutes ago, MindOfMadness said:

For such things to work there needs to be a governing body to mediate evictions and disputes, just as there is in the real world.

Without any sort of protection from the "elite class" there will always be those that take advantage of the plebs and therefor chaos by those that will not bend the knee because there is no benefit to the action, only vulnerability.

I've been pondering this for a bit now, the only way to do it, that seems right to me, would be to have the flag have a cooldown on it when the build settings are changed. A short cooldown, I feel 36 hours is probably decent enough. You'd also have to make the structures that were built in that flags area immediately ready to be demolished as the claim owner has already waited 36 hours and its probably a bit unfair to add an extra 72 hours to that wait. So it would give protection to the tenants and there is really no change for the claim holders as it still ends up being about 3 days before they can rent the land out  again, but they can clear it quicker if they are evicting someone because they were blocking spawns or whatever.

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5 hours ago, BoomerMcFisticuffs said:

I've been pondering this for a bit now, the only way to do it, that seems right to me, would be to have the flag have a cooldown on it when the build settings are changed. A short cooldown, I feel 36 hours is probably decent enough. You'd also have to make the structures that were built in that flags area immediately ready to be demolished as the claim owner has already waited 36 hours and its probably a bit unfair to add an extra 72 hours to that wait. So it would give protection to the tenants and there is really no change for the claim holders as it still ends up being about 3 days before they can rent the land out  again, but they can clear it quicker if they are evicting someone because they were blocking spawns or whatever.

I was thinking more along the lines of paying for time. You pay up front for a set time and can extend that time if it runs out or just rent for an extended period up front.

This would take some brainstorming on how to set up initially but it's the only way I could see it kind of working without having any sort of a system that protects the renter from the property owner.

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From what ive seen large companies dont really rent land only smaller ones 5 and under and the reason for renting is others cant claim the land if someone is sleeping farming even if he aint part of the company wich needs to be changed. The 3 day protection that you can refresh is good enough . And so far it feels like the land owners should pay the renters tax instead considering those guys are stopping you from losing your land lol.

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The game already got companies not harvesting a single item, yet can push out a new Galleons daily.

Everytime I look in our bank I just think, this is wrong while I struggle to go back to the storage lockers we keep adding more off.

Edited by Shintai

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20 hours ago, MindOfMadness said:

I was thinking more along the lines of paying for time. You pay up front for a set time and can extend that time if it runs out or just rent for an extended period up front.

This would take some brainstorming on how to set up initially but it's the only way I could see it kind of working without having any sort of a system that protects the renter from the property owner.

Well, I've been informed that if you rent land and the claim owner changes from neutral that you don't lose your building. you can't build anything else there, but you don't lose ownership of your stuff. Still have to move since you can't make any changes or additions and I'm sure the decay will destroy everything, but at least you get time to move out.

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