Claim territory company

[Winter Thorne 696]

Well, this is somewhat off-topic, but I think it was a mistake to start off the claims systems the same way for pvp and pve, and that statement you're referring to about dictators, etc. I took to be more about companies being able to set laws for their lands, (especially on pvp), and not to mean that some special few would get to be dictators over all the other players because they couldn't have their own land.  As far as "punishment", you've said you wouldn't lose anything at all if it became one claim per player, as for the rest, people have lost all kinds of hard-earned stuff due to bugs and griefing and game patches.  Why should people who grabbed up a bunch of land be exempt?  It's EA..we're not even sure there won't be a wipe.

On a pvp server, getting land from other people is part of the game, and a sign of success.  Massive land grabs are encouraged.  On pve, massive claims hurt the game, and you can't compete for land in any in-game kind of way, like fighting for it.  The claiming goals on pve ought to be making land available to as many people as possible, and coming up with ways for people to band together to improve land and compete economically and status-wise.  The only reason for having a claim flag expire on pve is to free up claims where the player has left.  They ought to be given simple 2 week flags, where if someone doesn't appear on their property in 2 weeks, time's up.  Or maybe 20 days...something reasonable.  It would also be nice if players got a claim deed that they could sell or trade to someone else.  People like to move around sometimes.

For the record, I wasn't considering one person being able to make a town.  That would be the cooperative part of claiming.  The Devs say they want towns and cities and player owned shops.  I think a great way to do that would be to give all those things their own skill tree with requirements.  Like, if you have 5 players in contiguous claims, you can all sign a charter, meet some requirements and you can create a village.  Maybe a village will have certain upgrades those players can work for.  With, say, 15 players, you can have a town, meet more requirements and have 1 town shop, and a town hall with improvements for gardens or harvesting.  Every time this happens, players can lose all their individual docks, forges, looms, etc and have common ones they can all use, making more open space for them.  Cities could be the really big ones, with lots of players, lots of perks, and lots of shops.  I don't think anyone would mind paying taxes or rent for a shop in a big city, and they'd not be made to feel like a serf, with just renting land from someone who can grab all their stuff and kick them out.  A system like that would create a lot of different desirable roles for pve players rather than the haves vs. the have nots of using the pvp system, and it would make a much more interesting game.  (Which reminds me...we REALLY need to be able to sell ships.  I don't know how many people I've heard say they just want to be a shipwright)

[Traven Guthrie 13]

55 minutes ago, Sketch said:

land claims and rental system make no sense when players arent your enemy and it creates the problem of forcing peeps to go claim land in pve as if they were pvping. pve should have a seperate system for the 2 modes, claiming works in pvp minus issuses, but it has no place in pve.

See? people advocating for removal of claims, even tho it would make things worse. Thanks Sketch for backing up my point. And sketch go look at lawless zones. Your plan will make the whole game world look like that.

 

Everything you mentioned can already be done without the need for some complex system in game. just work with people to get it done. Land will come available, there will be a draw down in players as every game swells in the beginning. You seem to just want everything right now.

Edited January 13, 2019 by Traven Guthrie

[Traven Guthrie 13]

13 minutes ago, Winter Thorne said:

As far as "punishment", you've said you wouldn't lose anything at all if it became one claim per player, as for the rest, people have lost all kinds of hard-earned stuff due to bugs and griefing and game patches.  Why should people who grabbed up a bunch of land be exempt?  It's EA..we're not even sure there won't be a wipe.

There it is.  "if i cant have it you shouldnt be able to either." huh? 

 

14 minutes ago, Winter Thorne said:

and not to mean that some special few would get to be dictators over all the other players because they couldn't have their own land.

Who is dictating??  12-15 companies on my grid most of which are working together. No dictators here. thats not a special few either. here you are again throwing spears at people who are simply playing the game as it was designed

 

18 minutes ago, Winter Thorne said:

The claiming goals on pve ought to be making land available to as many people as possible

Exactly what we are doing in our territory. making it good for as many people as possible without overcrowding. which is what there will be if the claim system is removed/ harshly limited.

[TiiaAurora 43]

Also just mentioning. Since neutral flags are there the player base on our grid has doubled and so has the ping We went from 60 to 130.

This feels like Lawless now

[JackTheWack 10]

well start moving to a less growded place then not like the ice fields have players but oh wait even those places are mostly claimed with only 8 players avg per server .... 

[Winter Thorne 696]

9 minutes ago, Traven Guthrie said:

There it is.  "if i cant have it you shouldnt be able to either." huh? 

 

No, there it is not.   It's more like - there's enough room for 2k people to have reasonable claims, but now only 1k people have claims, so some improvement is needed.   I think you're basing a lot of what's being said on your OWN claim, which actually sounds very nice and is not really the problem.  I'm basing a lot of what I say on what other people are saying about claims, as well as my own experience with claims in this game and in others.  A lot of this isn't personal to just me and what I want in this game, (except that there are some really good game systems that could be used to help this, that I think would be really fun to play).  You are speaking very personally and I am not.  I guess that doesn't help the conversation.

 

13 minutes ago, Traven Guthrie said:

Who is dictating??  12-15 companies on my grid most of which are working together. No dictators here. thats not a special few either. here you are again throwing spears at people who are simply playing the game as it was designed

Exactly what we are doing in our territory. making it good for as many people as possible without overcrowding. which is what there will be if the claim system is removed/ harshly limited.

I'm not talking about you and your group there.  I meant dictators as in your reference to them earlier.  You said that dev statement meant the game was always intended for some people to be serfs.  I had a different interpretation.  And again,  this isn't about your group.  Your territory sounds fine.  There are many places where it doesn't work that way, and where one guy has grabbed up 10 claims or more, or a few guys have grabbed whole large islands.  One player should not be able to have 10 claims in a game where there is not enough land to go around, and it can't be taken away by pvp.  I don't think the claim system would ever be removed, and I disagree with anyone saying it should.  As far as harshly restricting claims, the harshest you can go is 1 per person.  I don't think that's unreasonable, especially if you add mechanisms for controlling blocks of land through towns, etc.  Claim size should be set to what's reasonable for 1 person.

[Traven Guthrie 13]

 

1 minute ago, JackTheWack said:

well start moving to a less growded place then not like the ice fields have players but oh wait even those places are mostly claimed with only 8 players avg per server .... 

So much WOW with this one.  "I want your land so YOU should move away"  Or I could maintain a place that isnt overcrowded and many people support it.

Only 8 players huh? well since 8 players couldnt control or sleep on all the claims out there it wouldnt be very hard to take some of that unused land from them. just takes a little legwork and patience

[JackTheWack 10]

@Traven Guthrie Again you are showing that you havnt had to claim land for a long time now , if you didnt know you can refresh the 3 day protection timer with jsut replacing the flag and yeah if someone catches you while its down and places his own it will turn into a waiting game.  You dont even need to sleep on a claim if you refreshed the flag the 3 day protection is so fun . Love the new setting they added that more claims = lower take over time but it dosnt apply to the 3 day protection that you can just refresh. 

[JackTheWack 10]

@Winter Thorne Yeah its hard to make this traven guy understand that all is not good with this game , but what i mostly get from him is even though he talks that he has 25 people in the company and only uses 15 flags , he sure is defending hard the multiple flag spams for single players like he was one "lucky" player that claimed a ton of land and now dosnt want to lose it.  But only thing we can hope currently is that the devs start focusing on pve balancing not releasing pvp stuff for all the servers. 

[Traven Guthrie 13]

4 minutes ago, Winter Thorne said:

You are speaking very personally and I am not.

No i am speaking objectively. I have no reason to speak personally. You make a poor psychologist.  I see the things being cried for here being damaging to the game as a whole, not for our community. As i said before our 25 people could just spread out and take 25 flags instead of 15. The flag limit wont have the result you think it will.

 

5 minutes ago, Winter Thorne said:

You said that dev statement meant the game was always intended for some people to be serfs

In a way yeah it is. Maybe some people dont mind being serfs? And if you dont want to be a serf there are ways not to.

 

7 minutes ago, Winter Thorne said:

One player should not be able to have 10 claims in a game where there is not enough land to go around, and it can't be taken away by pvp.

I dont claim to have been everywhere in the world, but Ive been around. and Ive not seen one instance where one player has 10. And if they did it would be quite easy to take it via the game means given some time.

 

I simply think there are too many people in the overall game for the land area available. even with people packed into 1 claim each. So instead of taking away claims that many are calling for (I know you arent, but you seem to take that personal, but many people are) or stripping land from people (which a forced reduction in claims would do). The devs need to implement a single player version for the solo players out there (win for them)  add a new server if the swollen numbers keep going (win for the people new to the game that want to go get land and leaves us in peace)

[Traven Guthrie 13]

10 minutes ago, JackTheWack said:

Again you are showing that you havnt had to claim land for a long time now , if you didnt know you can refresh the 3 day protection timer with jsut replacing the flag and yeah if someone catches you while its down and places his own it will turn into a waiting game.  You dont even need to sleep on a claim if you refreshed the flag the 3 day protection is so fun . Love the new setting they added that more claims = lower take over time but it dosnt apply to the 3 day protection that you can just refresh.

We are well aware of the mechanics of the flag system, as we have been defending our territory since day 3. without the three day protection solo players wouldnt even be able to log out of the game without their stuff getting stolen.  One guy is gonna get tired of running around to all his places every three days, or... he grows a community that people like to be in, or his stuff gets taken when everyone knows he is a bad landlord and no one supports him.

 

7 minutes ago, JackTheWack said:

Yeah its hard to make this traven guy understand that all is not good with this game

Sure, claim to know what i don't understand.  Anyway I never said that all was good in this game... far from it. There are many things that need to be fixed.  Your "fix" would make things worse

[JackTheWack 10]

@Traven Guthrie The flag limit WILL have the result we are looking for PVE servers dont have the 500+ megaguilds as the PVP servers most players in pve are small groups of 2-10 , that have claimed a lot more land then they need but heck no point in me saying anything cause from what ive seen in the game aint FACTS for you anyways cause the only place you have been seems to be lawless and your own small spot in the game .  But who cares that i have over 200hr played on steam and about 70% of that traveling on the sea while losing 2 schooners and sloops and countless number of rafts jsut to find a place to claim after my 2 first places got taken over . 

[JackTheWack 10]

@Traven Guthrieif you think theres not enough land for all the players you are wrong on that point lawless mostly have on avg 80 players on PVE servers then the islands next to lawless are about 40 on avg then another grid away its about 30 and it keeps going down like that until about 5ish players who are on the farthest grids north / south on the map and those 30 players usually own islands the size of what ON PVP has megaguilds with 150 players on But yeah if you tally up the avg players per server on PVE it would be a measly 30ish . But nope who cares that theres a lot more people on PVP and no1 has to worry about a spot cause you can just shoot the guy that tries to defend and we cant even get enough spots on PVE for 1/4th of the players that PVP has your logic is soundproof.... And if you come with resource protection logic they can just change the distance that buildings stop resources from spawning , not like the 30min tree respawn rates are so good anyways currently.     

[radosc 20]

What's needed for PVE is an incentive to join a common cause and build the cities. For now, there is a strong incentive to keep as many claims as possible because of the taxation system. The more resource-rich claims, the more is collected. Limiting claims to one per person will invalidate any taxation for small companies since one claim, where you put your base is usually resource blocked, and not much will be left. 

If we want to induce players and companies getting together and actually making the islands something nice we should possibly establish Principalities where multiple companies commit their land to join and to receive a share of tax from all properties and benefits of shared vision with the ability to build within town walls. Exit process would also be needed with some cooldown. Add shops to the city, and it is the place to be. For now, trading is very difficult, and nobody will go miles to find your small shop in the woods if he could just easily load and unload in the docks. Abandoned properties (player not logged in a month or so) could be auctioned. 

I wouldn't worry too much now. Even now it is kind of easy to find more land. Players come and go, and there will always be some land to grab. With the new possibility to build 1x1 with the bed almost anywhere, it would take just a little bit of patience to find claims you need and wait till it's ready to be claimed. I enjoy this part of the game

[Traven Guthrie 13]

Sorry for that. Ive got 300 hrs level 52 working on 53 from discovering other islands, been to at least 7 grids, seen a lot of places. and I actually look at who is where because im interested in helping this game get better.

If you are solo we have room for people like you. simple rules, and lots of freedom.

[JackTheWack 10]

yeah having to wait 5 hr to take over someones abandoned place cause they only own 1 flag is "interesting" and each time someone walks into it your flag gets contested is real "fun" . Sorry but seems i got a different understanding of "fun" from you.

[JackTheWack 10]

@Traven Guthrie 7 grids yeah shows you that you havnt really seen what a shi* show pve is on the 1st day this game was released i had to travel 7 grids , so far in total ive gone through over 50 grids i ask people and if no response circle the islands in the grid for finding anything i could claim , if your experience of this game is only 7 grids you havnt seen even 1/10th of what the map is like. So anything you say about how this claim system is working nicely and should not be changed  cant really be taken in face value .  Heck i bet you havnt even had 1 of your ships sunken by weight griefers yet LOL. 

Edited January 13, 2019 by JackTheWack

[provokatze23 1]

They have changed something with pve claiming. I was on the island where we have our claim and was walking arround for fun and it said „can not become claimed at this time“.

also no timer to see when it could work. 

[Notrub1957 1]

9 hours ago, Linix Blue said:

Don't disagree with the fixing of claims, it is somewhat broken, but sometimes, you just gotta find the right spot and ask. We have given people spots on our island, all you have to do is ask. And if they are toxic, move on, and just keep swimming

Linux Blue

I have tried that approach because there are some large spots of unclaimed land on a lot of the islands. The problem is that none of them are large enough to get the claim to go through. I have tried talking to the adjacent land owners, but, I all I get is snoring.... I don't want to take their claims. I am just trying to find a little spot to make a shipyard and learn how to play the game....

I am currently on a piece of claimed land with an 18% tax. I don't mind the tax. But, I can't build a shipyard because all of the water area near the shore is unclaimed land and the game won't let you build there.

Edited January 13, 2019 by Notrub1957

[TiiaAurora 43]

For your first steps and first shipyard I recommend to use the lawless.

We had a lot of people coming to our island. Asked for a spot - which was given, they just build a few foundations with a smithy, loom, made a shipyard and were never seen again. On lawless stuff gets demolishable after a couple of days that you left. 

 

[Swap2018 1]

20 hours ago, UDO said:

show a screenshot of the atlas map , show us all how many places u have visited , all these players saying nowhere to claim , show us 

 

shows us a screenshot of your atlas map with the places u have visited , if you have been to every grid and every island and are still saying the same then yes there is a problem , if u dont land and check claim flags them how do u know there are no spots , u cant tell that just from red blobs 

How would you like to visit all of the map if you don't have place to build and to farm??

[UDO 361]

14 minutes ago, Swap2018 said:

How would you like to visit all of the map if you don't have place to build and to farm??

why are u saying there isnt anywhere to build when u havnt been everywhere?

 

think for a moment all the close areas to freeport are of course taken they were first areas to be hit , so later players will have to travel further to find spots , basic common sense 

Edited January 14, 2019 by UDO

[Vegetto 59]

Tundra regions have so many places you can claim.It takes 6hrs is the big pain even if a company has entire island.

[Elrood 54]

heh....

I have a proposition for all of you, who think current system is bad.
Think out a system which can't be twisted by group of very dedicated trolls. Than propose it.

1 claim per person? Alpha tribes win.  Solo players and 2-3 person companies have problem. In ideal situation - where every person can get one claim and build on it, islands are barren lands because every single claim has some building on it.
Limit claims per company? Alpha tribes split into alliance of multiple companies (organized either in game or outside of it). Zerg tribes are already established with leaders and subordinates, management, etc. Take out organization part out of the game, they will organize outside of it, discord, forums, etc. Nothing will change. Arguable it will be worse because you won't be able to tell its zerg tribe you are facing. It will be conglomerate of small companies. And they will still have equal amount of land. 

Take out claim system entirely? It will result in barren land because every single place with resource spawning will be taken by someone building 1 block house with bed or we will have spam of pillars and foundations as in lawless.

If you can find a system in which i can't find a disaster, I would love to hear about it.

And please keep in mind that claim overlapping is still a thing and not fixed in any way. This actually make your proposition even worse cause you would have trouble making buffer zones.

Edited January 14, 2019 by Elrood

[Sketch 15]

14 hours ago, Traven Guthrie said:

See? people advocating for removal of claims, even tho it would make things worse. Thanks Sketch for backing up my point. And sketch go look at lawless zones. Your plan will make the whole game world look like that.

 

Everything you mentioned can already be done without the need for some complex system in game. just work with people to get it done. Land will come available, there will be a draw down in players as every game swells in the beginning. You seem to just want everything right now.

its not advocation, it makes no damn sense for a pve mode to have pvp objectives and no i dont want everything. i just dont want the current crappy system where i can lose/unable/bugged/exploited a claim for land due to a 'feature' that both can hinder or result in players losing 100's of hours to it.

Clearly they should have thought out the functionial system better rather then try to bogde job it, in the hopes of it working.

it works as intended for pvp, it doesnt fit pve.

Edited January 14, 2019 by Sketch