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WilliamGrayton

Players using single foundation tile to...

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I am sure this has been said before and something must be done or changed.  Players using a single foundation square to either grief players by cutting off the respawn of resources or "box" them in so that they can not build any further in an area which they can not claim in the normal fashion (lawless). This imo is not what the devs intended when they placed the foundation limitations when building too close. This is a system being exploited by players and should be addressed before it further kills the community in this game.

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I agree. I went round an island earlier and found very few buildings on said island. What I did find however was loads of single platforms, often hidden under bushes to prevent anyone else building there

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To be fair lawless isnt meant to have stuff built the way it's being abused now. 

The ATLAS crew cant very well shut off building because the point is to get your boats ready, not settle down. So if the players are taking the mechanic into their owns hands be it abuse or not at least it's working like it's supposed to.

One thing I will say is I wish the foundations wouldnt be allowed to be in the water or the beach line, because that hinders shipyard placements.

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No disrespect to you, but the logic of your statement is flawed. Exploitation for any reason is wrong. Players "correcting" the devs intention is not the motive here. Lawless lands are simply not governed lands, people can and do settle in the wild at a much greater cost then those who settle in more populated areas... Those who wish to avoid taxation and law. If what you said were true then why can you build at all on lawless islands? To prep your ship>? you can get starter ships in freeport to sail you anywhere, shipwrecked on a lawless island? just die and respawn in freeport or your home island. 

I am not asking for building to be turned off  on lawless, I am asking for devs/admins who are more active policing griefers and exploiters until the Devs can come up with a better solution.

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As with a lot of things in Atlas, this was a huge problem in Ark. That's why they came up with the half baked claim system, to try and prevent foundation/pillar spam. While the claim system has a lot of problems it does seem to have helped with this. 

Lawless is another story though since it functions basically like Ark did. People want to secure property in lawless and are using foundations and pillars to do it. Its one thing if you plan to build somewhere and use them to make sure no one blocks you in but a lot of people just don't want anyone building close to them. My one neighbor in the game for example has a 4x4x4 square house... but has foundation spammed for hundreds of yards around it for some reason. They even spammed right up to the edge of my house to the point where I couldn't put my roof on (I reclaimed property with the enemy foundation range reduction). There are also three foundations someone placed down two weeks ago and isn't doing anything with yet keeps refreshing them. 

Its easy to say "fix it!" but its not that simple, which is why this is still an issue in Ark. Keeping foundation resource block turned off in lawless is a viable solution for now to prevent some griefing. A more permanent solution might be to add a no-build zone around vital resources like metal and perhaps make small buildings and solo foundations/pillars decay much faster than large structures. They could also try something where the more foundations you have placed, the faster your stuff decays in lawless, with the rate accelerating rapidly past a certain point. That would discourage large base building and land grabbing in those areas, which the devs have specially said aren't intended for permanent settlement.

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It's called "lawless" for a reason. I will admit, I do this because far too many times pass through resource farmers will build some ugly pos to use only temporarily and leave without removing it and It blocks me from expanding my settlement. Or the guy who beaches his raft, builds a 1x1 or 2x2, gets killed and never comes back. Or even worse, the storage on the ground people, 16 days before I can get rid of it. And as far as dev intent, do you really think they think things through that far? I don't.

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37 minutes ago, WilliamGrayton said:

 

No disrespect to you, but the logic of your statement is flawed. Exploitation for any reason is wrong. Players "correcting" the devs intention is not the motive here. Lawless lands are simply not governed lands, people can and do settle in the wild at a much greater cost then those who settle in more populated areas... Those who wish to avoid taxation and law. If what you said were true then why can you build at all on lawless islands? To prep your ship>? you can get starter ships in freeport to sail you anywhere, shipwrecked on a lawless island? just die and respawn in freeport or your home island. 

Its flawed yet you semi agreed with me in your musings. You can not place beds in lawless land based homes, and then they edited it to "lawless can not be a home location" I'm not sure how much more they need to change to prove it's not meant to be an area.

To hit your other points:

"then why can you build at all on lawless islands?" Because its meant to be a temporary safelette to get your stuff built, find a company (since they keep pushing they want people to be in big companies), and move on. That's why you have the claim message on the builds and why the timer is short. You cant carry all the mats you need to build your boats be it a small first one or a huge one. So they give temporary status for house building for smithy, loom, tannery, etc placement. 

"you can get starter ships in freeport to sail you anywhere"

Rafts and they wont get you far. The Sloops are new and have crap stats to further push building your own, a lot of people moved to lawless before that change was made (2 days ago).

Edited by Asanna

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12 minutes ago, Pappy Green said:

It's called "lawless" for a reason. I will admit, I do this because far too many times pass through resource farmers will build some ugly pos to use only temporarily and leave without removing it and It blocks me from expanding my settlement. Or the guy who beaches his raft, builds a 1x1 or 2x2, gets killed and never comes back. Or even worse, the storage on the ground people, 16 days before I can get rid of it. And as far as dev intent, do you really think they think things through that far? I don't. 

The problem with what you're saying here is that technically lawless isn't intended for you to build a large, permanent settlement. Obviously right now there is nothing really enforcing that and I myself live in lawless because the claim system is so screwed up (although I'm not a land grab jerk :classic_wink:).

However, you're basically saying you foundation spam to prevent people from using lawless how its intended. How are new players suppose to use it to get a foothold if you take all the land with foundations because you don't want new players building by you or you build a massive permeant base there? No offense intended but if the developers ever make major changes to lawless that make it harder to stay here long term, it'll be such tactics that forced their hand.  

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13 minutes ago, Asanna said:

Its flawed yet you semi agreed with me in your musings. You can not place beds in lawless land based homes, and then they edited it to "lawless can not be a home location" I'm not sure how much more they need to change to prove it's not meant to be an area.

To hit your other points:

"then why can you build at all on lawless islands?" Because its meant to be a temporary safelette to get your stuff built, find a company (since they keep pushing they want people to be in big companies), and move on. That's why you have the claim message on the builds and why the timer is short.

"you can get starter ships in freeport to sail you anywhere"

Rafts and they wont get you far. The Sloops are new and have crap stats to further push building your own, a lot of people moved to lawless before that change was made (2 days ago).

4 rl days of not logging on is not a short timer. And to say "a raft won't get you far" is far from true. And I'll add this...

QguszjV.png

 

4 minutes ago, MaxPower said:

The problem with what you're saying here is that technically lawless isn't intended for you to build a large, permanent settlement. Obviously right now there is nothing really enforcing that and I myself live in lawless because the claim system is so screwed up (although I'm not a land grab jerk :classic_wink:).

However, you're basically saying you foundation spam to prevent people from using lawless how its intended. How are new players suppose to use it to get a foothold if you take all the land with foundations because you don't want new players building by you or you build a massive permeant base there? No offense intended but if the developers ever make major changes to lawless that make it harder to stay here long term, it'll be such tactics that forced their hand.  

Oh, I don't spam. I only protect the area I plan to use. I live on a fairly large island, plenty of room for others, even now.

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Just now, Pappy Green said:

4 rl days of not logging on is not a short timer. And to say "a raft won't get you far" is far from true. And I'll add this...

QguszjV.png

 

I just mean it terms of Ships of the Damned. I've traveled pretty far on my raft but I had a panic attack every time the waters got bad or I saw a SotD.

4 days is very short. All the sudden work gets busy, you have an emergency you have to respond to, something happens and you cant log in "its only been four days" boom you log in to see your boats sunk by griefers and your shipyard vanished. 

Also, apologies but i dont understand the screen shot.

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Just now, Asanna said:

I just mean it terms of Ships of the Damned. I've traveled pretty far on my raft but I had a panic attack every time the waters got bad or I saw a SotD.

4 days is very short. All the sudden work gets busy, you have an emergency you have to respond to, something happens and you cant log in "its only been four days" boom you log in to see your boats sunk by griefers and your shipyard vanished. 

Also, apologies but i dont understand the screen shot.

The dischord message is in response to the "the devs only want big groups" mentality.

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Just now, Pappy Green said:

The dischord message is in response to the "the devs only want big groups" mentality.

Oh, I never said it was the devs. Just everyone in general (just do a search on the forums) is spouting out "this is a mmo you have to join a big company" while myself and others are sitting here debating back that just because it's an MMO doesnt mean people like us (my small crew of three) should be forced to be apart of a huge company.

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6 minutes ago, Pappy Green said:

Oh, I don't spam. I only protect the area I plan to use. I live on a fairly large island, plenty of room for others, even now.

Oh ok, that's perfectly reasonable then. Its the people that spam half an island they're never going to use just so they don't have neighbors that are the problem. 

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1 minute ago, Asanna said:

Oh, I never said it was the devs. Just everyone in general (just do a search on the forums) is spouting out "this is a mmo you have to join a big company" while myself and others are sitting here debating back that just because it's an MMO doesnt mean people like us (my small crew of three) should be forced to be apart of a huge company.

That is exactly who I was posting that for. MMO doesn't exclusively mean Massive Group Online game.

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The problem with that is I know someone who has an entire island for themselves, literally a whole lawless island and her excuse for all the pillars and foundations are "oh I might want to use it in the future, not sure yet". 

There comes a point when it's too much lol

 

Oh I got you pappy, my bad.

Edited by Asanna
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Most specifically I am referring to a company of players who when I landed on the island had built in one or two areas but were not online at the time. I found a clean spot far enough away from both of their areas as not to interfere with them and I build a small area to store items to place a shipyard to upgrade from my ramshackle sloop,  then went to bed. The next morning I found their single foundations covering all the area around me and most of the island to which I am now limited as to what I can build or even finish my house and place a dry dock. 

 

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1 minute ago, WilliamGrayton said:

Most specifically I am referring to a company of players who when I landed on the island had built in one or two areas but were not online at the time. I found a clean spot far enough away from both of their areas as not to interfere with them and I build a small area to store items to place a shipyard to upgrade from my ramshackle sloop,  then went to bed. The next morning I found their single foundations covering all the area around me and most of the island to which I am now limited as to what I can build or even finish my house and place a dry dock. 

 

Ahh, I know that feeling I just waited for the decay times where I was..  staked out an area for a long time for it. But where I have claimed land (not lawless) is being taken over this way.

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What I find is that if new settlers bother to communicate with the residents of an island most of this sort of land appropriation can be avoided. But, many times I've tried to talk to people who come into my space, drink from my barrels, and cut down the trees directly next to my buildings, only to refuse to even acknowledge me when I am standing right in front of them. These are the same people who build and run, or build right on top of me, or resources. So, I play defensively. But I am more than happy to have neighbors who are respectful.

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I actually had to put single foundations near my house next to some metal spawn that were walled off, decayed and destroyed. Didn't think for a sec, put up a foundation before someone wall it again (lawless zone).

Edited by ExplodingYeti

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They should just take out anything from being built on lawless except for shipyards, solves a ton of issues

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17 minutes ago, iLL said:

They should just take out anything from being built on lawless except for shipyards, solves a ton of issues

Sure, if they want to see the playerbase shrink by another 20%.

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5 minutes ago, Pappy Green said:

Sure, if they want to see the playerbase shrink by another 20%.

Since the lawless weren't meant to be a "home" in the first place..  20% player loss is fine, I'm sure they'll pick that back up in no time (20% seems incredibly high btw).  You must be one of the ones living in a lawless zone and if they prevented people living there like it's intended you'd just quit?

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Just now, iLL said:

Since the lawless weren't meant to be a "home" in the first place..  20% player loss is fine, I'm sure they'll pick that back up in no time (20% seems incredibly high btw).  You must be one of the ones living in a lawless zone and if they prevented people living there like it's intended you'd just quit?

Please give me the link to the design document that details what lawless is supposed to be. Last I checked lawless != homeless and huh, weird, they let you build there.

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4 minutes ago, Pappy Green said:

Please give me the link to the design document that details what lawless is supposed to be. Last I checked lawless != homeless and huh, weird, they let you build there.

You can't even place a bed on land in lawless, there's 4 day timers for inactive people's stuff to be demolished, everything points to it not being meant as a "home".  The stupid claim system is in the game for a reason, if they just wanted people to live on lawless like it's Ark then the entire game would be that way and not centered around some terrible claim system.

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Directly from Jat in the pinned patch 10 musings.

Quote

These servers are meant to be unclaimable land to allow players to gain a foothold once they’ve left Freeports, but they’re meant to be a temporary area before setting sail into the wide ATLAS!

 

I think disabling building there is what they should do eventually after they fix ships and balance out claims.  Let them become resource gathering areas for new players in pve or people to pirate each other over in pvp.  But yeah they really do need to fix the other systems first or a lot of people will be screwed.

Edited by Kyorin
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