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Armin v. Salz

Too many Mega Tribes ?

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On 1/15/2019 at 5:27 AM, Cpt. Peggy Leggy said:

You're underestimating the level of autism in many large communities. If a large company wants another large company removed, the fight goes on. It's not something  you can understand unless you experience it first hand. Time is a non-factor in these situations. Wars in EVE have gone on for many months straight, or longer. I've seen single stations hell camped for weeks on end 24/7.

I can vouch for this. Large companies are actually quite disorganized. Often its a case of many individuals under one roof rather then a united effort. This leads to people doing their own thing, wasting tribe resources on making pretty non function 'PVE' ships among other silly things. It is quite an effort to co-ordinate all the lemmings to work together during these attacks.

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On 1/12/2019 at 11:48 AM, rodarin said:

But now that these large groups are established and whereabouts known there is still never any conflict between them. These guys are all too willing (the first few weeks) to go out and beat up on smaller groups and offline people with their zergs. But when they encounter a major group they all do the 'diplomacy' thing. But to be fair the 'diplomacy' thing started before then as they allied and merged with anyone they thought could be a threat as they were organizing their mega company.

As someone in a large company with another large company nearby I can say the main reason is its not worth it! It would be completely counterproductive to get into a long drawn out war with another large company and theres no need, we can grow a lot faster just by expanding in other directions. Also one of the biggest things that put us off such a fight is it would basically result in never ending server lag for both sides. Our home server and their home server would just become unplayable. Thats just the reality of the situation.

Edited by MightySheep

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2 hours ago, MightySheep said:

As someone in a large company with another large company nearby I can say the main reason is its not worth it! It would be completely counterproductive to get into a long drawn out war with another large company and theres no need, we can grow a lot faster just by expanding in other directions. Also one of the biggest things that put us off such a fight is it would basically result in never ending server lag for both sides. Our home server and their home server would just become unplayable. Thats just the reality of the situation.

All about perspective I guess. You have different people with the same 'environments' but each one has differing reasons as to who or why not do something. Which might sound like 'wow a lot of decisions and choices to make'. But not really. There are only 2. To fight or not to fight. There may be differing reason on how to decide those two choices but those also come down to a couple options 'not worth it' or 'we do it but not for any sort of gain'.

 

Which both have the same base reason...'stuff' in the game is simply way to easy to obtain and keep. Which I guess is OK but not when the (assumed) reason to make stuff easy tro get is so that when you lose it you can recoup pretty quickly. Might be why they have 'broken' land claiming. To encourage sea fights where people lose ships. Lose a ship? No big deal go back and build a dozen more in a couple hours.

 

So there are conflicting mindsets here. Stuff is easy because its 'supposed' to be lost. Especially ships and armor and materials. Land has become nearly impossible to take even with offline raiding because they want people to have 'safe spaces' to be able to rebuild themselves to continue a fight. "Growing'' isnt even necessary at this point. I suspect the mega groups have already lost a third or more of their overall playerbase as it is. So the old excuses have stopped being good reasons. But it also adds to one of the bigger reasons why people arent playing the game anymore.

 

As for the other comments about how 'disorganized and 'wasteful' most big companies are....that itself is an indictment of them in general and why there should be a limit on the number of people that companies and alliances can have. Its a population war where the only reason people do it is because the other guy can. Deescalate the need for mass amounts of people and the game in general gets a whole lot better. Imagine 5 or 6 well organized and functioning groups owning the same amount of ships and territory as a SINGLE (apparently unorganized) company does now. Which scenario has the greatest potential for 'spontaneous' interaction or gameplay? And if those mega groups ARE broken up then that also opens up possibilities for others who are either not playing or playing somewhere else or who got tired of being run over and didnt want to ally or merge to return. So now you go from one mega tribe dominating mass sectors of the overall map to potentially 7 or 9 smaller companies (with  more people overall) playing the game and having differing agendas and goals. So all this 'sandbox content' becomes 8 or 9 times more likely to happen. Which shoul dby anyones standards make the game as a whole alot more 'fun' to play.

 

But like I said its a mindset. No matter how easy you make things or how excessive stuff is able to be owned people still dont like 'losing' it, and thats why games whose content is based with 'losing' and 'rebuilding' fail. And before people start citing Eve...yeah thats just it EvE ALREADY exists. So why 'invest' in another game that does it worse with worse everything after you have spent years in Eve getting to where youre at? Thats even if I believe Eve is all that. (which it isnt I played it for a decade).

 

People can make all the excuses for Atlas on any level they want but its fundamentally flawed. But right now it appeals to their target audience which is the streamers who can pretend its something it isnt. But if they decide to want more from it theyre going to have to make sweeping changes. Which dont include some of the dumb things they have already done.

 

When the 'downtime' numbers are getting lower and the 'primetime' numbers are getting lower its not easy to see the game is losing a lot of players. Again people can make all the excuses they want but with a thousand or more private servers (people are paying out of pocket for) and the 4 official servers those numbers are pathetic. Especially since the overall play ability due to performance are much better than they initially were. But thats another topic. But I think related to this one in a lot of ways.

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I don't get the people saying nobody fights and its all off lining crap.  Sure we get hit while offline some nights, but most of our fights are active battles.  We're raided every evening during our prime time and it makes for some real fun nights.  We also go on the offensive and do some heavy damage when we bring out the big guns.

This is the first game in probably 10 years that I am falling hard for.  Why?  Its a PvP MMO that has no rules (for the most part) like Eve and my other all time favorite Shadowbane.  The devs do not dictate what happens in game.  We do.  We generate the content.  We control our own fate. 

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If everything is claimed, ask for the leader of the mega group, ask for a piece of land and help them protect, that's what we have done, no problem setling down anyware atm as long as the island have space. Some of them are over crowded as is.

 

If you just start claiming you wont get to keep the land.

Edited by Knivet

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Rodarin your post is stupid and gay. If you smashed up our company from 500 players to 5 companies of 100 players it literally wouldnt make any difference. We operate as part of a larger alliance even with 500 players. This game will always inevitably devolve into alliance wars, whether people are in the same company doesnt even matter. If anything it just makes us more exposed to insider attacks.

I cant relate to this "disorganized and wasteful" thing you guys keep talking about, I'm assuming youre talking about other games where resources are shared in big groups. Resources are not shared in this game. We have multiple groups inside the same company and we live on multiple different islands and we work independently towards the same goals. It's no different from being separate companies except we are much safer and stronger.

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The wars are coming. Just wait. People are still getting a feel for things, farming better equipment schematics and seeing who they REALLY want to fight.

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A lot of the problem that leads to these ongoing debates is the way this game is marketed.  A lot of people see it as a pirate game, where you and some friends can get a start, build a ship, sail out and find a place to lay a claim, make a base and advance, then go out and have adventures.   This sadly is not how the game is actually made.  No small group of friends can do this as they will get rolled over or gobbled up or constantly lose any progress either to larger groups in PVP or to exploit players in PVE.  The only place you can find that type of gameplay is on an unofficial with a like-minded admin group.   The base game isn't a pirate game at all, since it caters to people who tribe up in large companies and claim large territories to take resources from and fight over.  That is colonialism, most of us learned about it in school - think of the British Empire.   The game has an identity problem.  It could easily have been made into two games, one being the pirate game focused on the small group of friends banding together to form a company with a few large ships and one base that goes out to adventure together.  The other game could be the Empires game, where people band together under a few large flags and fight to take and hold and exploit the colonial areas that have the rich resources.  Sad truth is, you can't make one game that does both.  Maybe some conversion mods will aim to fix that, but for now the official game we have is not a pirate game at all, it's an Empire game in pirate clothing.  Hopefully change will come in time, till then find a good unofficial if you aren't looking for the Empire experience and you can have a great time with the game.

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11 minutes ago, HonestJohn said:

A lot of the problem that leads to these ongoing debates is the way this game is marketed.  A lot of people see it as a pirate game, where you and some friends can get a start, build a ship, sail out and find a place to lay a claim, make a base and advance, then go out and have adventures.   This sadly is not how the game is actually made.  No small group of friends can do this as they will get rolled over or gobbled up or constantly lose any progress either to larger groups in PVP or to exploit players in PVE.  

Before I got this game it was sold to me as "like eve but with pirates" which is essentially what it is.

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The official page talks about building a raft, joining some friends, and setting sail for adventure.  Not at all the actual experience.  I think a lot of the problem is the image versus the reality.   I never played EVE, wouldn't as I don't enjoy the PVP game, and was looking for the calmer PVE game which was sold as part of Atlas.  There is no official PVE, and I don't think there's a PVE in EVE either from what I've seen people saying, so again it comes down to an identity crisis.  As usual, the problem is that PVP and PVE are too different to be built on the same game platform with just a few changes.    

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I personally do not understand the mega company approach to the game.

Swarming an island with so many you cap the server to prevent defense and making it so laggy you are better off running around punching each other doesnt really seem like a lot of fun to me personally. Is it fear of loss? The game has plentiful resources, why is everyone so scared of fighting and losing?

Fighting is fun, dominating others through numbers, isnt, specially when it makes the actual fighting a lag fest.

Personally I think they need to make it so companies can only have 50 people, alliances can only have 3 companies, and then put a claim limit per company. Then change a server cap to 100 people.

 

 

 

 

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