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Jat's Musings: Patch v10

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Uh something caused all ships to suddenly hit the bottom of the bay and start sinking...please rollback!?

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@JatheishIs anything know about a weird glitch that causes tamed animals frequently to glitch through and under platforms/ceilings and foundations? It has happened with wolfs, monkeys and bears so far. Sometimes endangering them or even killing them cause they are then not protected anymore from wild creatures.

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11 minutes ago, Jatheish said:

Just a note folks, I know you're bringing up a lot of different things in the post and I will read through them and discuss with the team -- just have some other things I'm looking into/working on atm. These blog posts of mine aren't intended to be final or cover all issues, just some hot topics that have come up recently. I am getting confirmations of trees reappearing on lawless servers too 🙂

Make sure you download the latest client to get the updated structure prevention change

@Jatheish can you hotfix water spouts while you're at it? We can't fill from them on PvE

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2 minutes ago, elimere said:

@Jatheish can you hotfix water spouts while you're at it? We can't fill from them on PvE

We're looking into it!

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@Jatheish Would it be possible for aggressive animals to fight each other? They are already hard enough without having to deal with a wolf, a lion, and a giant snake all camping my body together after having absolutely destroyed my lvl 30 something wolf with all points in health and damage.

 

I would feel better about tames if wild animals were also brought more in line. Right now a lvl 5 wolf might as well be a lvl 200 alpha as far as being able to fight it goes most of the time. 

Also some sort of early warning that an aggressive animal is nearby would help as well. The music seems to wait to start until I'm already sitting at half health in the lions jaws. 

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also i may rasie a point of being in a temperate zone and having a snowstorm and a heatwave at the same time was a bit weird...i have recorded it on my stream

 

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Good update notes from you @Jatheish, appriciated time and effort you put into those posts.

I think Tames really should be toned even way more down in terms of being efficient gatherers, because this isn't Ark, granted it's based on the build and framework of Ark, but this intended to be a completely different game, so keep it that way. There is absolutely no reason why tames should be good at gathering anything, other than maybe a very select few animals, where some tames would be better as mounts as tools for farming, or could be trained for various functions like a monkey being able get to hard to reach locations and get things, wolves for protection and so on.

Another thing I really think you should consider - a server region that blends between PvE, lite-PvP and full blown PvP, large city freeports that are hubs oozes with life and all kinds of activities to engage, trades to be made, social interaction. Where lawless islands could become those areas where people would go and claim land and build their communities, lawless regions where outlaws would often be found waiting to attempt to pirate tradeships, raid caravans or bands of adventurers. Outlaw and unknown regions to be explored to find treasures and loot, that kind of thing. Why am I suggesting this? Because both PvE and PvP are facing some serious issues in regards to limited space, and in regards to you want this game to be an MMO game and you want more players into this game, you're going to have to realize at some point you're going to be running out of space. For instance on PvE servers, there aren't any battles between players taking place, the only battles taking place are ship battles against the SoTD, which aren't that many in contrast the amount how many ship battles that takes place on the PvP servers. Which means that more and more ships will take up space, and also this means that eventually, it will become difficult to actually find space to settle down and build. So I think you should consider a different approach than what you're attempting now, consider how other MMOs are doing it, probably your greatest challenge is what all other MMOs struggles with when they attempt to have player housing, and why do they struggle? Limited amount of space, and in Atlas you can make homes and bases on massive and elaborate scale, so that means that Atlas is attempting the housing part on a super massive scale, so unless you do this differently, the servers will eventually run out of actual building and living space.

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14 minutes ago, Incarnate said:

I think Tames really should be toned even way more down in terms of being efficient gatherers, because this isn't Ark, granted it's based on the build and framework of Ark, but this intended to be a completely different game, so keep it that way. There is absolutely no reason why tames should be good at gathering anything, other than maybe a very select few animals, where some tames would be better as mounts as tools for farming, or could be trained for various functions like a monkey being able get to hard to reach locations and get things, wolves for protection and so on.

I don't think tames should be nerfed more, they have been nerfed badly enough, making it VERY hard to survive for wolf or lion for example, because most wild animals spawn on u in pairs at minimum, up to 5-6 at a time and wreck you so badly u most likely will lose ur tame now.
As for gathering, I don't think its OP, maybe for bears with fiber, but not for other animals as far as I observed, also lets not forget with their hp/damage nerf, its more likely to get ur tame killed now when jumped by groups of carnivores that can spawn out of nowhere and finish you off in less than 15sec.
It is ALWAYS a big risk now to go outside farming resources with ur tame, unless you bring ur own pack of doggies/kitties/gummibears to escort you.
But I like the idea about monkeys, I think I saw a palm tree with coconut on it the other day and thought to my self "if only there was a way to reach it.." 
I dont know if it was aesthical coconut or real thing, but a monkey with a skill to climb up and knock it down for you would be amazing 😄

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37 minutes ago, Kyojin said:

@Jatheish Would it be possible for aggressive animals to fight each other? They are already hard enough without having to deal with a wolf, a lion, and a giant snake all camping my body together after having absolutely destroyed my lvl 30 something wolf with all points in health and damage.

 

I would feel better about tames if wild animals were also brought more in line. Right now a lvl 5 wolf might as well be a lvl 200 alpha as far as being able to fight it goes most of the time. 

Also some sort of early warning that an aggressive animal is nearby would help as well. The music seems to wait to start until I'm already sitting at half health in the lions jaws. 

Perhaps have the wolf howl now and then and the lions and tigers roar the snakes hiss i mean the rattlers are already very loud when close but they could rattle like a true snake would it might be to much work tho but that would be a cool feature and warn people a little more than a glow you cant always see till you pretty much die.

As for tames i enjoy having creatures i love ark, i know this is atlas and creatures are a skill you choose but atm it does not feel rewarding to chose that skill tree at all your babies die to weather unless you sit for days staring at them and force feeding them or stack a barn full off penguins, your tames constantly get eaten by lesser wild creatures and alphas, well on my island, taming them is a bit to much off a rush for them to instantly die when a lvl 1 wolf decides to make it the first course off dinner, im looking forward to tames being a supplement that is actually useful other than being bags off meat to throw at the world or passive farm animals to use for food and balanced vitamins. 

Perhaps that should be the focus off the tree then to have only farm animals and passive mounts that can outrun predators in a pinch?

dont get me wrong i love having a lion, a tiger and some big beasts off burden to carry things but atm wild life is just way to powerful compared to a tamed one, and when a 61 player gets eaten by a lvl 1 wolf the game starts loosing its shine i have had to take a day or two off to decompress i hardly ever need to do that im a very relaxed and calm person when gaming it is after all just a game, but with this i invest to much time in taming trying to breed a creature to then fail or loose it all to very strong wild life i get it its supposed to be dangerous out there in the wilds but when a wolf runs across an island to eat someone something with that creatures ai is a bit wonky.

Thank you for taking the time to post the essay it was an interesting read.

Edited by Ocellatusa

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Will anything be done about people using countess hacks ?
claim flag and lawless were big issues for sure...

But hacks... I mean, this should be number one priority, you can literally buy hacks online for this game ...

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"Clearly, this had some knock-on effects on how players dealt with creatures (tamed and wild), which we expected but to know the full extent of the changes it is best witnessed in a live environment. The gameplay/balance team are consuming your feedback and will make adjustments when necessary, it’s possible that there may be some potential tweaks too with some multipliers which are being looked at right now. Not going to confirm anything is being changed right this instant, but just acknowledge that we’re aware of the feedback and it is actively being discussed internally."

-------------------

Put mildly, the firearm changes were atrociously bad for PvE-focused players. Please listen to the majority of feedback on this issue and give firearms their original damage values against wild creatures.

I really do appreciate the hard work that goes into developing and patching an EA game, and I think Atlas has generally improved substantially over the last couple of weeks, but I'm a bit miffed and boggled by the firearm changes. Why screw PvE players over so that PvP-focused players can defeat player armor more easily? The flintlock pistol is essentially a potato gun at this point, and the carbine isn't much better if you can't get headshots. The blunderbuss was rendered virtually useless.

The firearm changes make it much harder to hunt on power stone islands. Higher-level predators and monsters could survive multiple headshots before dying even before the changes, so I shudder to think how weak they feel now.

If the intention was to make firearms PvP implements and discourage their use in PvE, why not just say that in the patch notes instead of giving PvE players an unexpected and rude awakening? By your own words, the damage changes were "expected," and you have no intention of making any changes "instantly," so it's clear that reduced firearm damage in PvE was intentional to some degree or another -- or, at the very least, it was considered a worthwhile sacrifice for the sake of PvP balance. Nowhere in the patch notes was it stated that firearm base damage would be dramatically reduced.

But here's what really gets me. I don't recall a single thread complaining about the effectiveness of firearms against wild creatures, so why fix what isn't broken and drastically reduce gun damage against wild creatures? Why? I mean, why? Isn't it somehow possible to make firearms more useful against armor without gimping their effectiveness in PvE, which is where almost all of my firearm usage occurs?

I'd bet my house that if a poll were put up right now, the overwhelming majority of people would agree that firearm damage didn't need to be scaled down in PvE. I'd also be willing to bet my house that most firearm usage in this game occurs in PvE against wild creatures. So again, why screw over so many people just to satisfy a segment of the playerbase that routinely engages in PvP with firearms? Really, though. Why? It makes no sense! ☹️

Edited by Ransurias
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Just now, Honey Bear said:

Still no info for console?  We want to help as well!

When we've got something to share, we'll yell about it from atop the crows nest 😛

 

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The PvE game must have a stronger focus on taming. Simple as that. We don't have a large group of players to go protecting us. We don't want a large group of players protecting us. If your direction and balance for Atlas is going to be primarily on PvP then please let us know and we can go play something else. If however you want to keep the PvE market segment, you're going to need to build in a stronger focus on tames.

I would think that it's relatively simple to have two data dictionaries, one for PvE and one for PvP. The game then just pulls the appropriate numbers and bools depending on the server mode. E.g. on PvE tames are stronger and regenerate more quickly; alphas only spawn on high level islands, etc.

Please consider this. My group are really enjoying the exploration and sailing parts of the game but the repeated nerfs to tames, environmental difficulty, etc. are just driving them further and further towards quitting.

---

"Please don't be jerks"  Seriously? That's like asking an alpha to "Kindly not eat my high level elephant in under 20 seconds". Griefers grief. That's their thing. They get sexual pleasure from making people cry.

"I don't want to give details" The details are all over every forum, discord, youtube channel and in-game zone chat. Those who want to grief already know the griefing exploits. Please give a damn. Enact some measures to prevent griefing NOW, even if it's a less than ideal solution. Then, when you've figure out the right way, you can revert the band-aid and put the new system in.

 

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18 minutes ago, Jatheish said:

When we've got something to share, we'll yell about it from atop the crows nest 😛

 

@jatheish Final question and if you don't answer it is obvious that the devs think the claim system works as intended...well at least diasbale the mechanic that claim flags are daisy chained...i'm having this iusse at the moment that in an huge stone gate fort a guy sleeps and flags all around even with nothing in it than sand and water are always get contested...

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9 minutes ago, TrevorJD said:

The PvE game must have a stronger focus on taming. Simple as that. We don't have a large group of players to go protecting us. We don't want a large group of players protecting us. If your direction and balance for Atlas is going to be primarily on PvP then please let us know and we can go play something else. If however you want to keep the PvE market segment, you're going to need to build in a stronger focus on tames.

I would think that it's relatively simple to have two data dictionaries, one for PvE and one for PvP. The game then just pulls the appropriate numbers and bools depending on the server mode. E.g. on PvE tames are stronger and regenerate more quickly; alphas only spawn on high level islands, etc.

Please consider this. My group are really enjoying the exploration and sailing parts of the game but the repeated nerfs to tames, environmental difficulty, etc. are just driving them further and further towards quitting.

---

"Please don't be jerks"  Seriously? That's like asking an alpha to "Kindly not eat my high level elephant in under 20 seconds". Griefers grief. That's their thing. They get sexual pleasure from making people cry.

"I don't want to give details" The details are all over every forum, discord, youtube channel and in-game zone chat. Those who want to grief already know the griefing exploits. Please give a damn. Enact some measures to prevent griefing NOW, even if it's a less than ideal solution. Then, when you've figure out the right way, you can revert the band-aid and put the new system in.

 

Don't want to be forced to have tames, they should not focus on them, they just should not nerf them. The wildlife is the problem, not tames. The tames would need thousands or tens of thousands of hp to fight all those predators and alphas spawning.

Edited by Nightstrasza
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The patch notes and direction of the communication from @Jatheish tells me this version of the game is a test platform. They are releasing game mechanics in a way that allows them to collect the data that they need to balance specific areas of the game. Similar to how multi-player shooter games will run a beta with a single map. They do it to test different elements of the game in an environment that provides the best insights while giving the testers the impression that they are just there for fun. 

I really hope this is the case which would explain why there has been bugger all communication regarding the significant community out-cry over the current game design issues. Not the individual mechanics, which we are hearing a lot about. The design of the game as a whole. 

The community is not impressed though; the outcry is noisy and killing future sales already; so it would be greatly appreciated if you can give us some long-term insights into the plan and direction of the over-arching game design. Alleviate our fears that you are just making copies of connected Ark servers and give us an idea of how this game will expand into a living, breathing, connected world. 

Atlas Needs Less Ark and More Eve

Edited by Sklex
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Would it be possible to get a non buff giving version of the music that auto plays?

In a certain other pirate game that shall not be named, i really enjoyed relaxing and playing sea shanties for the crew as well sailed along. it makes long voyages much less tedious.

I want to relax with some music while enjoying your beautifully made waves and sky, not play guitar hero.

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33 minutes ago, RogueLdr said:

Would it be possible to get a non buff giving version of the music that auto plays?

In a certain other pirate game that shall not be named, i really enjoyed relaxing and playing sea shanties for the crew as well sailed along. it makes long voyages much less tedious.

I want to relax with some music while enjoying your beautifully made waves and sky, not play guitar hero.

You could always just record it and then blast it through the voip.

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7 hours ago, Kimsey said:

Sleepers should NOT keep your claim safe indefinitely, you need to change that ASAP.

Right now, its a hell to find a place to claim, even when the owners weren't active for a long time.

If people want to be safe "forever" they need to go to a private server.

 

 

7 hours ago, Sklex said:

Mate you seem to be ignoring a significant number of people who are asking a clear question. It's a big question, we get that, but need need to know the direction you are going so we can decide if its worth the wait. 

Game Design...

It has flaws right now. What are you doing to address it? What direction are you taking the game? What mechanics are you investigating for offline raid protection? How do you plan to make the game fun for groups who are tiny compared to the zergs? Trade? Whats the plan here? Economy? How will it be implemented?

There's so much potential here. But there's also a heap of frustrated players who have already left because the game design is encouraging the type of game play that appeals to the bullies of the community. 

Oh and please... Why are there no fresh water sources on perfectly lush islands? We want to raise crops, we want to cook. But it's a complete waste of time right now due to the significant work to keep them going. Let us irrigate!

Right now, its a hell to find a place to claim, even when the owners weren't active for a long time.

Cant say this enough we have sailed for two days and discovered quite a few islands in both lawless and not lawless zones to find not one scrap of land not claimed.  hell most fo the water is claimed way out so the idea of buidling in shallows is shot to Hell right now as well.

 

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38 minutes ago, Latriam said:

 

Right now, its a hell to find a place to claim, even when the owners weren't active for a long time.

Cant say this enough we have sailed for two days and discovered quite a few islands in both lawless and not lawless zones to find not one scrap of land not claimed.  hell most fo the water is claimed way out so the idea of buidling in shallows is shot to Hell right now as well.

 

Nah they just really need to find a way to get people to want to be landlords.  Like clear cut benefits beyond the tax that mega tribes already don't need.  Cause honestly resources are the last of their worries.

Like a MASSIVE tax on for each cumulative piece of land owned unless there's a renter on it. 

Or some sort of defensive buff for an area with a renter that scales with how developed the renting company is.

Or a special rental company only station that can be built that can ...do something helpful.

Some sort of Stellaris style "overextended" debuff that makes SotD spawn in their waters if they own too much undeveloped land.

Although this would all be open to the exploit of having a mega tribe splinter off a few bits to rent land instead of letting people that actually need it have it.  

 

Basically just remember the easier it is for you to steal land, the easier it is for another person to come up and steal it from you in return.  Think the current system is a good idea on paper but just won't work in practice due to human nature.

 

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@Jatheish Are there plans for either land wipe, easier contesting, or flag restrictions on PVE? 

I ask simply for the fact that at the moment, you're going to want new players rolling in, and with the unlimited amount of flags able to be placed in areas, no matter how big the map is, space is either non-existent, unable to be taken, or previously placed claims are so awkwardly spread out that flags can't be placed between them.

Example: I managed to find the tiniest placelette of land, however, not only has someone built within my territory nulling my ability to build our house, He's also claimed everything around us (one person). We can neither expand, or move. If we try to contest or take his land the count down timer for claiming specifies in thousand second intervals, and even after the timer has diminished, it falls into the negatives and will not allow placement.
Further example on above point - Flag claim timer "Placing a flag here will contest [insert tribe name here] in 2,945(seconds)". I wait for timer to count down and return after and attempt again "Placing a flag here will contest [insert tribe name here] in -1,246(seconds)".

Unless we are failing to understand how this works, and all guides have failed us, the spamming of these flags will leave no land for anyone to build. (Hence the current issue of people living on Lawless due to no lands available.)

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2 hours ago, Asanna said:

@Jatheish Are there plans for either land wipe, easier contesting, or flag restrictions on PVE? 

I ask simply for the fact that at the moment, you're going to want new players rolling in, and with the unlimited amount of flags able to be placed in areas, no matter how big the map is, space is either non-existent, unable to be taken, or previously placed claims are so awkwardly spread out that flags can't be placed between them.

Example: I managed to find the tiniest placelette of land, however, not only has someone built within my territory nulling my ability to build our house, He's also claimed everything around us (one person). We can neither expand, or move. If we try to contest or take his land the count down timer for claiming specifies in thousand second intervals, and even after the timer has diminished, it falls into the negatives and will not allow placement.
Further example on above point - Flag claim timer "Placing a flag here will contest [insert tribe name here] in 2,945(seconds)". I wait for timer to count down and return after and attempt again "Placing a flag here will contest [insert tribe name here] in -1,246(seconds)".

Unless we are failing to understand how this works, and all guides have failed us, the spamming of these flags will leave no land for anyone to build. (Hence the current issue of people living on Lawless due to no lands available.)

If our 2 flags gonna be wipped bcs thou art being too lazy to go into tundra where are tons of abandoned flags then gonna spend entire time to claim spam every island. There's still even polar. No, just bcs temperate is the easiest doesn't mean everyone gets it, go tundra, those islands have like 0-20 ppl online at the same time, when traveled just 1 grid higher where dessert is, suddenly 60 players, then 1 higher and 90 players with 200 ping, that's not everyones concern that thou art all choosing the easy, warm climates. Personaly spent 24 hours and didn't sleep one night to travel on rafts and find a home land, from what seen no one even bother with polar and tunras are just covered with dead claims.

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@JatheishIs there going to be a more detailed explanation of which crash fixes you roll out? Simply stating that you have fixed 95% of the server crashes doesnt really help us understand what crashes we shouldn't be receiving.

In the bugs section many users are still being affected by the Low level Fatal Errors and D3D hung/lost. These crashes cause more problems for your community than any other because if they are riding anything (ships/tames etc) they will be kicked off. This was an issue you had in ARK where I believe it was whispered that it was an Unreal Engine issue. I believe you are now using a different version of the Unreal Engine so that cant be the cause for the same crashes we are receiving.

Please provide a response and even better look at a fix for this.

This is a great game in waiting but these crashes are a huge issue for the Atlas community.

Thanks

Anarki

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