In the interest of being constructive, here is a suggestion for what can save this game.

[Captain Jack Shadow 488]

First, let's understand that the Devs have a vision of this game involving heavy trade and mercantilism.  That sounds awesome for a game involving ships, and pirates.  However, this can NEVER exist in a game that promotes mindless PvP and destruction.  If you want the first part, you have to put throttles on the second.  So how to do that?  I believe that several things can be done.

First, we do want PvP.  We do want raiding, and we do want to sink ships.  But how can we do this in a manner that doesn't inhibit fun gameplay?  The basis would be a Reputation System that mimicked a justice system.  This does not have to be hard or complicated.  It simply has to recognize that all PvP and all Destruction are not equal.

First, you have a system of lawful and unlawful points awarded, and and then have a few different player standings related to that system.  At a minimum, they would be:

1. Lawful
2. Outlaw
3. Most Wanted Outlaw
4. (option) Dread Pirate

 

With Lawful, you are unrestricted, you go anywhere and enter any port, freely.

With Outlaw, you are free game for other players to shoot at, and you can't enter lawful ports.  AI would shoot at you and your ship if you enter.

With Most Wanted Outlaw, Lawful players are given a buff when combating you on land and at sea, and an AI Royal Navy hunts you.

But people also want to sink ships, a lot.  So, you put in smugglers, and pirates in all ship classes, with their difficulty ranging by the class of ship they are in, and the rewards for sinking them equal to their class. Sloops easiest, and Galleons hardest.  Sinking them also gives you lawful points.  Lawful points don't build up, they just remove Outlaw points.

Conducting trade with lawful sailors and merchants in other companies, gives lawful points.

Raiding adds Outlaw points, but so long as the destruction is not mindless, this won't add a huge amount of points.  This is determined by what you destroy.  Doors, hatches, and containers won't add a lot of points.  Damaging ship hulls, masts, sails, etc...adds a lot of points.  Sinking them adds a whole lot of points.  Same goes for bases.   Containers would also have an option to just destroy the lock.  This allows for less Outlaw points as you do not destroy the container.  This allows you to take what you want, and the owner comes back to find what you did not take, still in the container.  This will allow for more mercantilism and trade because you don't lose everything and start from scratch.  You have something to trade to get gold to purchase important things you lost.  Presently, the container gets destroyed, the raider may not even take anything, but everything in the container is lost.

The above will actually, also encourage real Pirate game play.  You have somebody outgunned, and no way to run...you offer them the out of letting you board, and take what you want, then leave without a lot of destruction.

Time will also be a modifier on your Outlaw score.  Time lowers your outlaw score by a set rate, if no outlaw activities have been committed within a set number of hours.  This would need to be subject to testing, balancing and tweaking to get it right.

Companies and individuals could accept player placed missions for escort duty.  A player merchant asks for an escort for their merchant ships, and other players accept the mission.  Only upon acceptance do you learn where the origination and destination are.  The original request only tells you within a 3x3 grid where both are.  Once you accept, you are duty bound to do the job.  This will affect your Outlaw score.  If your company or allied company attacks this merchant, you get HUGE Outlaw points awarded.  If a rival company sinks it, you get some, but not a lot.  Getting the merchant to safety removes a good number of points.  This also, would need tweaking to achieve the desired effect.

Doing trade/business with lawful players and companies will add a small amount of lawful points.

Declaring war on another company, would reduce the penalty for attacking ships and bases that are not ORP protected.  You still want to encourage PvP, not PvE disguised as PvP.  Also, a modifier based on your company's Outlaw status, and that of the Company you attack, could come into play.  For instance, if you have no outlaw status, or a very low outlaw status, but you declare war on a company with a much higher outlaw status, you won't suffer gaining outlaw points as much.

Individuals and Companies that reach Most Wanted Outlaw status, cause others to receive an offensive and defensive buff when battling them.

Your status would not be a secret to you or others, and so the leaders would need to manage the activities of themselves and their members, and remove members who don't follow orders regarding this.  Removing a rogue would not immediately remove their affect on your company's outlaw status.  Time would remove it as per normal function.  This prevents exploiting this system by kicking out those with high outlaw status, and bringing them back in when it is low, as a means of managing the company outlaw status.

In short, once balanced and tweaked, this would not punish raiding, and PvP, that is not mindless destruction, and create an environment for a thriving economy.  This system, along with some form of ORP, would prevent one person sinking a Brigantine, or Galleon, from shore or a raft, with some fire arrows.  That is not the kind of game play most people are looking for.  You cannot have mindless destruction and PvP in a game where you want to promote trade and mercantilism.  However, a good system would also not eliminate PvP.  It would instead promote it in a manner that made the game more enjoyable.

Gamers, and especially Meta Gamers, will do what the game allows and rewards.  They will not do, or do less, what the game punishes.

Edited January 5, 2019 by Captain Jack Shadow

[Captain Jack Shadow 488]

By the way, this totally eliminates the need for any sort of turret defense.  Being raided will suck, but not be the end of the world.  And turrets, as shown in ARK, weren't effective at preventing raids anyway.

[Captain Jack Shadow 488]

An insurance system that allowed you to get your ship back, if you are not in Outlaw, or Most wanted Outlaw status, would also help, though this might only cover the hull...as in the ship itself.

Star Citizen has a good system planned for this.

1. Hull Insurance (covers the basic ship)
2. Upgrade insurance (covers what you add to the basic ship)
3. cargo insurance (covers the cargo in the ship)

Something similar could work here.

For balancing, you could get a certain percentage of the resources to build a new ship if you are in Outlaw, but not Most Wanted Outlaw status.  The insurance could be a token that you place in the shipyard that builds the ship, and adds the components to finish it, as in the planks, masts and sails.

Upgrade insurance would require you to declare every added component, and pay accordingly, so doors, ceilings, walls, cannon, etc..  Ammo would be included in cargo insurance.  This would also be charged based on what you are declaring. 

You are not required to insure anything, or everything.

[PillWhore 8]

This is the way forward!

[Nomolos 3]

some good ideas in there

[Hodo 147]

As cheap as ships are to make currently you dont need insurance.  You can salvage half of the ships materials if you dive and demolish the remains.   If you demolish a galleon wreck you could build 2 schooners, or 1 Brig, or 3-4 Sloops.

[PillWhore 8]

I like a lot of the stuff but I think simple is good with this kind of system

[Captain Jack Shadow 488]

2 hours ago, Hodo said:

As cheap as ships are to make currently you dont need insurance.  You can salvage half of the ships materials if you dive and demolish the remains.   If you demolish a galleon wreck you could build 2 schooners, or 1 Brig, or 3-4 Sloops.

Insurance is just a suggestion, and obviously, if it were implemented, it would have to take into consideration the ability to recover materials, but one thing you didn't think of is this...what if you are destroyed well out to sea, and cannot recover that material?  Or, what if your ship is destroyed while you are offline, and it's a few days before you get back?  So, something that could be part of this mechanic is that if you recover anything from the wreck, you can't claim the insurance, and if you claim the insurance, the wreck is no longer recoverable.  I would expect that if somebody sinks you at sea, they will dive the wreck and take anything of value.

Edited January 5, 2019 by Captain Jack Shadow

[Hodo 147]

8 minutes ago, Captain Jack Shadow said:

Insurance is just a suggestion, and obviously, if it were implemented, it would have to take into consideration the ability to recover materials, but one thing you didn't think of is this...what if you are destroyed well out to sea, and cannot recover that material?  Or, what if your ship is destroyed while you are offline, and it's a few days before you get back?  So, something that could be part of this mechanic is that if you recover anything from the wreck, you can't claim the insurance, and if you claim the insurance, the wreck is no longer recoverable.  I would expect that if somebody sinks you at sea, they will dive the wreck and take anything of value.

It is not in the realm of impossible for someone to dive on a wreck at sea.  

[Captain Jack Shadow 488]

16 minutes ago, Hodo said:

It is not in the realm of impossible for someone to dive on a wreck at sea.  

It is if you have no ship left, or do not know where the wreck is.  This is why I stated that it would be more likely for the people that sunk you, to dive the wreck and take everything of value.

[Ashvau 4]

Love this idea would also like to see a full blown bounty system and skill line. Players could place a bounty on a pk'er that would go on the bounty board allowing for player with the BH skill line to hunt the player for rewards.

As well a player justice/jail system akin to Archeage would also be really cool.

Edited January 5, 2019 by Ashvau

[Captain Jack Shadow 488]

I love the idea of a Bounty System.

[Hodo 147]

23 minutes ago, Ashvau said:

Love this idea would also like to see a full blown bounty system and skill line. Players could place a bounty on a pk'er that would go on the bounty board allowing for player with the BH skill line to hunt the player for rewards.

As well a player justice/jail system akin to Archeage would also be really cool.

I am more a fan of this than I am for any insurance system.  When it costs nothing but resources and time I dont see a point in an insurance system.   At least in EVE it costs isk to build the ships or buy the ships.   Here they are completely free except for the time you put into them.

[Purpleninja 0]

He has some valid points! I also would like to know why if you farm you harvest 1 pepper but when you collect in the wild you get 5 per plant?.... seems fishy but finishing the AI towns and adding places to spend gold like brothel and trade posts for hard to get items would be so rewarding for players. so far the game has come a long way since release but there are the things that should be looked into. and a bounty system would be great for those not so nice PVP players that are just horrible. that could be in those AI towns as well. Keep trying and updating and hopefully in 6 mo this will be a long ago memory

[Sulfurblade 194]

17 hours ago, Captain Jack Shadow said:

I love the idea of a Bounty System.

sadly they don't work never have....

Ultima Online had a bounty system long ago in 1997!  Players quickly figured out it was a great way to make money....  Get a big bounty on your head and have your buddy kill you and split that bounty!  All that money provided bye the people you killed...   Just so you could get richer and then thank them for putting a bounty on your head!

 

The fact this didnt work in 1997 didnt prevent many other games who failed to do there homework from putting in the same short sighted bounty system!!!  That would be abused again and again....  

 

Now I am all for a bounty system if you can figure out how to fix that loop hole!  

Star War galaxies tried to fix it a few years latter....  Bounty hunters would actually be given a contract to kill so and so and only they got said contract...  Of course what happened was, George gets a bounty to kill John, sponsored bye James cause he can't stand John....  Well George gets the contract tracks down John discover's that he is a tough and is having a hard time killing him so, "Hey John if you let me kill you I will split the bounty"  <---- Nope that didn't fix the problem...

You can think up a million ways to try and fix this issue but in the end it always boils down too, bounty hunter tell's prey hey lets split your bounty!  Which really defeats the whole point and rubs salt into the wounds....

[Liatni 35]

Bounty system for rep and not  item/cash reward, is best way to go about it (wont be abused as much but,  I am sure cheesy will find a way they always do)

Yeah, bounty systems = friends collecting from friends in an endless loop of lolz winning this!

Do like the rep up and down depending on your chosen gameplay though.

[Captain Jack Shadow 488]

Make the bounty take years off the life of the person killed.  This means you are going back to lvl 1 that much sooner.

Also, make the pay end up coming from the person killed.  Or at least half of it, if he is successfully killed.

 

If it takes years off, I think there would have to be a substantial cool down on when another bounty could be placed on that person.

[Ban Tier 29]

I like the ideas of the first post a lot. Pirates usually attacked trading ships or raided towns. Ofc there were wars between pirates, but most of the time, they were hunting civilians. The reputation system should be visible on the player and/or ship. The bigger the pirate flag next to his name, the more outlaw points he has or the more players with outlaw points man the ship (alternatively the more outlaw damage the ship has caused).
Combined with an option, that defending NPCs would only shoot on targets with a defined outlaw level, we could see player driven lawful cities as well as pirate hideouts. Give us NPCs vendors to allow trade while ebing offline or at sea and the game will become great.

I do not like the idea of insurances, would limit trade. If insurance, than only gold to rebuy stuff from traders.

 

Edited January 7, 2019 by Ban Tier

[MightySheep 14]

Your post was too long for me to read fully but I do agree with the idea of implementing justice and consequences in some form. Not because I like it (I hate it) but because I dont think me going around and indiscriminately sinking harbored fleets and shittng on people for fun is helpful to the long term health of playerbase.

[Captain Jack Shadow 488]

5 hours ago, Ban Tier said:

I like the ideas of the first post a lot. Pirates usually attacked trading ships or raided towns. Ofc there were wars between pirates, but most of the time, they were hunting civilians. The reputation system should be visible on the player and/or ship. The bigger the pirate flag next to his name, the more outlaw points he has or the more players with outlaw points man the ship (alternatively the more outlaw damage the ship has caused).
Combined with an option, that defending NPCs would only shoot on targets with a defined outlaw level, we could see player driven lawful cities as well as pirate hideouts. Give us NPCs vendors to allow trade while ebing offline or at sea and the game will become great.

I do not like the idea of insurances, would limit trade. If insurance, than only gold to rebuy stuff from traders.

 

Not sure I like the idea of Pirate friendly areas, as that gives cover to the griefers when the idea is to make life harder on them.  I do like the idea of the insurance being paid in gold, so that you buy the items from a vendor.  And, I am assuming that these towns with the ambient crowd noise, will end up being no-build zones, with NPC vendors in them, like the Freeports.  Thus you will not need to return to Freeports to buy everything.

[Captain Jack Shadow 488]

Ah yes, the suggestions forum...where good threads are sent to die.