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Psykonalle

More flags - Decreased contesting timer

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4 hours ago, Psykonalle said:

Because you make it sound like you have the entire island. How many claims do you have, and do you build on all of them?

oh no not at all...we are 7people with 2playing seperate...we have 4flags that are useful....2land 2water....for 2bases

so what we would have to do is to let them build on the flags where our bases are...and i dont think that i want that as long as i cant manage their buildings...what if they stop playing...will i be able to get rid of their base in my territory? 

many open questions....i will wait for people reporting about it...and then i might change my mind

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On 1/8/2019 at 12:31 AM, Psykonalle said:

All your arguments are based on PvP. Keep in mind that this is just for official PvE servers. On PvP you will have safety to some extent when living on a megatribe's territory (and paying taxes). On PvE you don't get anytjing in return, but you just pay taxes to griefers. I don't think you understand the core problem here...

Also, why on earth do you need to claim resource spots? 

This topic is not about setting a strict limit for flags. It's about encouraging people to own less territory, but still allowing people to own more. There must be a downside to have more flags. This is to eliminate griefing.

His arguments are not purely PvP, there are things you get in PvE that are not built into the game by doing this.  Alliances with better trade deals, information, claim flag defense, and even treasure maps are all something that can be accomplished in PvE with this system, acting like it is 100% useless just means you have not bothered trying it at all.  And people claim resource spots because people tend to strip mine those areas, see they are barren and then decide to build there because it's a "nice spot for a base" and thus ruin the resource spot when allowed to do whatever they want.  Not everyone in this game understands those mechanics or even seems to care about them based on a large amount of these posts.  You cannot have every person on an island having their own spot to build, there has to be limitations if you don't want to sail an hour through the ships of the damned just to get some wood to build the next panel on a boat.  The system we currently have is usable, but definitely needs a lot more added to it in order to make this usable for everyone.  Personally I'd scrap the time limitations and simply have the bank maintain upkeep on the claims based on a gold/resource cost, then add in methods to control tax/cost per alliance/company allowed to build on the land.  There could even be a method of negotiating taxes farming on the land for a duration of time where the owner cannot change until the time limit runs out.  

 

I see a ton on this forum requesting limitations be added for these things when we are already in a very limited system, why not try to build it up instead? Instead of tearing it down.  They've given us a mechanic, yes it can be used to grief people(overlapping bug) but it can be used for dramatically more player created content than before with a more robust trade system and alliance system.

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20 hours ago, Vaenix said:

His arguments are not purely PvP, there are things you get in PvE that are not built into the game by doing this.  Alliances with better trade deals, information, claim flag defense, and even treasure maps are all something that can be accomplished in PvE with this system, acting like it is 100% useless just means you have not bothered trying it at all.  And people claim resource spots because people tend to strip mine those areas, see they are barren and then decide to build there because it's a "nice spot for a base" and thus ruin the resource spot when allowed to do whatever they want.  Not everyone in this game understands those mechanics or even seems to care about them based on a large amount of these posts.  You cannot have every person on an island having their own spot to build, there has to be limitations if you don't want to sail an hour through the ships of the damned just to get some wood to build the next panel on a boat.  The system we currently have is usable, but definitely needs a lot more added to it in order to make this usable for everyone.  Personally I'd scrap the time limitations and simply have the bank maintain upkeep on the claims based on a gold/resource cost, then add in methods to control tax/cost per alliance/company allowed to build on the land.  There could even be a method of negotiating taxes farming on the land for a duration of time where the owner cannot change until the time limit runs out.  

 

I see a ton on this forum requesting limitations be added for these things when we are already in a very limited system, why not try to build it up instead? Instead of tearing it down.  They've given us a mechanic, yes it can be used to grief people(overlapping bug) but it can be used for dramatically more player created content than before with a more robust trade system and alliance system.

It's being fixed, not torn down. If one can use a mechanic to grief, one will. You have to consider every possible outcome. This is something you will learn by time when playing games like this.

Your gold/resource cost for territory is also a way to encourage people to only own the land they need/can afford. If you believe it would work, please present it as clear as you can. What happens if you don't have the resources to pay? I don't think the time-limit system for renting areas is a good long-term solution. 

On PvE people will pick spots that are either convenient or nice-looking. On PvP you can switch the nice-looking to easily defendable. I don't see the spawn blocking as a major issue, as people are looking for coast spots, whereas the more valuable resources usually are a bit deeper in on respective island.

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13 minutes ago, Psykonalle said:

It's being fixed, not torn down. If one can use a mechanic to grief, one will. You have to consider every possible outcome. This is something you will learn by time when playing games like this.

Your gold/resource cost for territory is also a way to encourage people to only own the land they need/can afford. If you believe it would work, please present it as clear as you can. What happens if you don't have the resources to pay? I don't think the time-limit system for renting areas is a good long-term solution. 

On PvE people will pick spots that are either convenient or nice-looking. On PvP you can switch the nice-looking to easily defendable. I don't see the spawn blocking as a major issue, as people are looking for coast spots, whereas the more valuable resources usually are a bit deeper in on respective island.

I know all too well that people will grief if they can grief, 3k+ hrs in Ark alone.  Not to mention any other games like this I've played.  The problem is that the majority of the conversation around here is "limit the flags!!!!!" which we both know will not resolve anything at all.  Apparently your a bit new to this if you don't see spawn blocking as a major issue, just look at what happened in the Lawless area, without claim flags to set boundaries people used foundations to make sure no one could build near them.  Now those same foundations are blocking resources.  In Ark we had plenty of new players just drop a base wherever they could fit in when they were on a populated map, often this meant that the resources in that area are gone.  I've been to plenty of islands that have small groups dropping down bases here and there and the resource issue is definitely a problem when they start dropping their bases inland, thankfully a lot of the people are blocking that with the claim flag system and trying to actively recruit people to their company or give them somewhere to build on the coast line.

 

I'm all for a conversation building it up, but dismissing his comments and others purely because you don't see the PvE benefit when there is one is just childish.

Edited by Vaenix
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6 hours ago, Vaenix said:

I know all too well that people will grief if they can grief, 3k+ hrs in Ark alone.  Not to mention any other games like this I've played.  The problem is that the majority of the conversation around here is "limit the flags!!!!!" which we both know will not resolve anything at all.  Apparently your a bit new to this if you don't see spawn blocking as a major issue, just look at what happened in the Lawless area, without claim flags to set boundaries people used foundations to make sure no one could build near them.  Now those same foundations are blocking resources.  In Ark we had plenty of new players just drop a base wherever they could fit in when they were on a populated map, often this meant that the resources in that area are gone.  I've been to plenty of islands that have small groups dropping down bases here and there and the resource issue is definitely a problem when they start dropping their bases inland, thankfully a lot of the people are blocking that with the claim flag system and trying to actively recruit people to their company or give them somewhere to build on the coast line.

 

I'm all for a conversation building it up, but dismissing his comments and others purely because you don't see the PvE benefit when there is one is just childish.

Well, for one thing starting to boast with ark hours is childish, even if they aren't even impressive. I can tell you have some ideas, but not really thinking them all the way through... Maybe because of lack of experince, I don't know.

For one thing this isn't Ark. If you want to build a base, you might want to do it on the shore, where you can actually have a dock and a ship. Of course there will always be people looking for trouble with blocking resources, but the vast majority will build on the coast. Most of the rare resources are inlands, which means to grief one would have to sacrifice one or more flags just for this. How would you like to comment this?

You can say that people are recruiting others, but based on the islands I visited and talked in global no one wanted to negotiate land or recruit. 

The devs aren't dumb. They discussed this option and already implemented it. Now we'll see how it works.

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56 minutes ago, Psykonalle said:

Well, for one thing starting to boast with ark hours is childish, even if they aren't even impressive. I can tell you have some ideas, but not really thinking them all the way through... Maybe because of lack of experince, I don't know.

For one thing this isn't Ark. If you want to build a base, you might want to do it on the shore, where you can actually have a dock and a ship. Of course there will always be people looking for trouble with blocking resources, but the vast majority will build on the coast. Most of the rare resources are inlands, which means to grief one would have to sacrifice one or more flags just for this. How would you like to comment this?

You can say that people are recruiting others, but based on the islands I visited and talked in global no one wanted to negotiate land or recruit. 

The devs aren't dumb. They discussed this option and already implemented it. Now we'll see how it works.

Plenty of experience, just not going to bother talking them through with many people on here as it isn't what they want to hear so it instantly gets attacked.  And I'm not boasting with ark hours I'm explaining I'm not inexperienced in this, sorry that you automatically resort to trying to insult someone who is trying to explain their experience in something.  Have fun being in your bubble with no opposing viewpoints.

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A fantastic reminder of why Grapeshot takes players suggestions with a grain of salt but never more. 9hrs 😑

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7 hours ago, Vaenix said:

Plenty of experience, just not going to bother talking them through with many people on here as it isn't what they want to hear so it instantly gets attacked.  And I'm not boasting with ark hours I'm explaining I'm not inexperienced in this, sorry that you automatically resort to trying to insult someone who is trying to explain their experience in something.  Have fun being in your bubble with no opposing viewpoints.

No, you were boasting like a besserwisser. Talking whom through? Grapeshot games? They do want to hear about ideas and suggestions for improvements. That's why they have a forum for this, where I posted a similar topic:

I'm open to other suggestions, but you should know all of them have different consequences that need to be taken i to account.

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Just now, Psykonalle said:

No, you were boasting like a besserwisser. Talking whom through? Grapeshot games? They do want to hear about ideas and suggestions for improvements. That's why they have a forum for this, where I posted a similar topic:



I'm open to other suggestions, but you should know all of them have different consequences that need to be taken i to account.

You are not actually open to anything other than your own viewpoint, you have made that extremely clear by insulting anyone who even makes the attempt to have a different viewpoint.  Either by insinuating that someone is inexperienced because their viewpoint differs or when providing evidence that they have experience in this realm claiming they are now boasting.  Quite frankly with people like you there is absolutely no point in any further discussion, as it just leads to either more insults or a pissing contest.  Have a good time in your bubble.

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35 minutes ago, Vaenix said:

You are not actually open to anything other than your own viewpoint, you have made that extremely clear by insulting anyone who even makes the attempt to have a different viewpoint.  Either by insinuating that someone is inexperienced because their viewpoint differs or when providing evidence that they have experience in this realm claiming they are now boasting.  Quite frankly with people like you there is absolutely no point in any further discussion, as it just leads to either more insults or a pissing contest.  Have a good time in your bubble.

Excuse me? Who is the one insulting here? I haven't had any probelms on this thread except you, who frankly are here just to provoke. Please leave.

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Is there truly enough usable land for 40000 players and resources to co exist. You have a ship, this should be your base. It is a pirate game after all, not a farming game. But the way it's currently designed it's actually just ark with a pirate theme. And unfortunately, without land, you can't build a ship. I'm not saying they should take out land ownership or farming or anything else, I'm saying, its just not a well thought out system with this type of map. I just don't think it's feasible to fit it all in and keep everyone happy. And any successful MMO has to have a certain lvl of balance to afford everyone the same opportunities and let the player decide what to do with them. Often players have to make hard choices early on i.e. Which class to play. I'm not advocating classes either, it just an example

Edited by Huck Finnley
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2 minutes ago, Huck Finnley said:

Is there truly enough usable land for 40000 players and resources to co exist. You have a ship, this should be your base. It is a pirate game after all, not a farming game. But the way it's currently designed it's actually just ark with a pirate theme. And unfortunately, without land, you can't build a ship. I'm not saying they should take out land ownership or farming or anything else, I'm saying, its just not a well thought out system with this type of map. I just don't think it's feasible to fit it all in and keep everyone happy. And any successful MMO has to have a certain lvl of balance to afford everyone the same opportunities and let the player decide what to do with them. Often players have to make hard choices early on i.e. Which class to play

I was hoping there wasn't going to be bases except for our boats, but you're right, it really is just pirate themed Ark.

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Here some thoughts on ships as bases. Increase carry weights of ships, make things like smithy and forges and such as optional modules for ships and redesign them to to use ship space more efficiently. And look at how resources are stored on ships. Are you really gonna store resources like wood in little boxes? No you would stack it in the hold. Give the ship it's own inventory straight out of the box. Don't want you fighting ship cluttered with resources and crafting table. Pull into port drydock your crafting ship (store) and sail off in you pirating ship. That in itself frees up land, forts only for companies of a certain size ( huge) and farming, taming pens restricted to inland parts of the island, coastal regions being a no build zone. Again just some thoughts

Edited by Huck Finnley

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The main problem is there really is no downside in PvE to claim as much area as possible and cranking up the taxes to 30%.

Options I see:

Encourage lower taxes by making the owners pay taxes at same rate as other.   

- Is that the tax rate is paid for ALL players including company members, then the same tax rate is applied to what the bank receives and that is removed from game.  The officers would decide how the taxes are spent.   This would encourge also to recuit people to harvest in you area and provide reason to go to you area vs others.

Encourage players only to claim what the need or can afford

- Taxes must be paid in a Freeport bank once a month at a rate based on total claim area the company controls.   The rate would be on an Arithmetic Progression and based on the amount of land created divided by the number of people in the company.  Large Company would be taking great risks delivering the amount of gold needed to pay the taxes, single player claims and companys with small claims and meny member the effort would be trival.  If this tax is not paid "ALL" the claims are removed.

While the ideas above may not be what is needed, there does need a reason for a PvE Company not to claim everyplace the can and put max taxes.

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So far many have been forced to live on their ships. As mentioned, the weight limit is the biggest problem - especially when growing really big. Even the Galleon has an initial weight limit of 29 000, which can be easily met with e.g. metal. On top of this people are sinking others' ships by overloading them. If this is not going to change, one will be forced to build on land. One PvE, however, I do believe they will do something about this.

Regarding the tax system, I am still concerned about the owner's rights to interfere with the territory that someone else is living and building on. On PvP you can always use brute force when needed, but how will the company paying taxes be sure they can keep living there for a certain amount of time. What if the land owner suddenly decides to revoke the renting rights to make it a non-buildable zone? This is why I don't see renting on PvE as a long-term solution. The whole idea with PvE is that you shouldn't be affected too much of other players' actions.

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