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Psykonalle

More flags - Decreased contesting timer

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36 minutes ago, Nomolos said:

In PvE get rid of the flags altogether and have the ARK model where your unable to build within X mount of blocks, as mentioned above its a mechanic that's not really effective in PvE as no combat to enforce, or when you raid a claim your completely reliant on players being unable to login for 3 days, god help you if you need to go away on holiday or hospital.

Flags seem to be a "good idea" as with many things within the Atlas world it makes no real sense but has been added to make it less Ark like and its there for the sake of it, PvE by its nature is a different beast and watching some of the streams where they are actively taking claims and raids are lasting over 24 hours because of a few protectors jumping from bed to bed as the flags seem to chain link so move to one protect them all in that chain its not working very well for PvP either 😛

 

At the end of the day Ark has a lot of good mechanics now after many years of tweaking but the baby seems to have been thrown out with the bath water to make Atlas "different" 😛

Yes, if they removed the claiming system they'd have to restrict people from placing pillars and foundations all over the place. This would be the best. The flag system works on PvP, but not here. 

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2 hours ago, Nomolos said:

In PvE get rid of the flags altogether and have the ARK model where your unable to build within X mount of blocks, as mentioned above its a mechanic that's not really effective in PvE as no combat to enforce, or when you raid a claim your completely reliant on players being unable to login for 3 days, god help you if you need to go away on holiday or hospital.

Flags seem to be a "good idea" as with many things within the Atlas world it makes no real sense but has been added to make it less Ark like and its there for the sake of it, PvE by its nature is a different beast and watching some of the streams where they are actively taking claims and raids are lasting over 24 hours because of a few protectors jumping from bed to bed as the flags seem to chain link so move to one protect them all in that chain its not working very well for PvP either 😛

 

At the end of the day Ark has a lot of good mechanics now after many years of tweaking but the baby seems to have been thrown out with the bath water to make Atlas "different" 😛

why get rid of flags? neutral zones are coming for companies to allow people to build on their lands and reap benefits of tax's even more...people just needed to wait like ive been saying, and then there will be places to build

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Because the flags do not add anything to PvE if they work as intended PvP would benefit but i don't see it being relevant for PvE.

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On 1/4/2019 at 4:01 AM, Psykonalle said:

As I've understood, the contesting timer for flag claims decreases as the total amount of flags increases. Is this accurate, and is there a table showing the rate of the decrease?

My main concern is if the timer decrease is steep enough?

If you only have one claim, the contesting timer will be 3 days. Do we know what the timer is if you have 10 claims? Without knowing what the decreasing rate is, I'd expect something like this:

1 flag: 3 days
2 flags: 2 days
3 flags: 1 day
4 flags: 12 hours
5 flags: 5 hours
...
10 flags: 9 minutes

This would encourage people not to have more claims than they can manage. It would allow bigger tribes to own larger pieces of lands, as well as the  9-5 worker to safely play on PvE with 1-2 claims. That being said, if you have people online around the clock, your territory should be safe. At the same time territory griefing would be eliminated, as you wouldn't want to risk your stuff being taken over in just a few minutes. Also, people wouldn't be directly denied owning more territory.

Comments? Ideas? Flaws?

The dev on Steam is saying 30 minutes for 200 flags 

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the only solution to make everyone happy is to allow claims in lawless servers (erase that lawless and make them to normal usable servers)

 

that would give a huge amount of islands to claim and build on

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Chacytay said:

the only solution to make everyone happy is to allow claims in lawless servers (erase that lawless and make them to normal usable servers)

 

that would give a huge amount of islands to claim and build on

You don't need to claim in the lawless regions...  Why would you want to make the only place in the game where people can build freely corrupted with that crap?

As a lawless dweller let me be the first to say...  **** right off with that noise!

Edited by MindOfMadness
Removed inappropriate language.

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2 hours ago, mizunami said:

why get rid of flags? neutral zones are coming for companies to allow people to build on their lands and reap benefits of tax's even more...people just needed to wait like ive been saying, and then there will be places to build

The flags would make more sense if they were part of a bigger system...like if 5 adjacent flag owners were allowed to place the next tier of flag - village, making them able to build better things, and maybe open a shop.  Maybe when 15 landowners agree to do it, you get a town with more stuff available, and for a whole island full of landowners, you could do a city.  (Assuming land claims were limited per person)

As far as your excitement over neutral zones, I'm not feeling it.  Nobody gets excited over being a second class citizen, and no matter how they implement it, the claim holders will be able to grief the renters or vice versa.  

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The issue with flags in PvE is the contesting timer.  It's made for PvP, as in, oh, the countdown has begun I have X amount of time to prepare for a fight and defend my base.

In PvE it means, oh, some schmuck wants my land, now I have to camp the base continually for the next three weeks until he gets tired  and goes away. So much for sailing!

A pillar claim system that is modified to prevent spam is a far better system. It should have X number of days decay based on log-in or interacting with the objects, and could even have a resource tax based on size of claim. This way whether your claim is preserved or not is down to you, not your neighbour.

20 years of PvE game design has pretty much shown any interactions between players can be a cause of grief. Some things aren't worth worrying about, but land claims are fundamental in Atlas. It needs a system where other players don't affect you directly.

 

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yeah for a PVE servers theres a lot you cant control in your own territory like give us a option to set 1 flag that cant be claimed at all option that goes away if you havnt logged in for a week , and remove the 3 day protections just have the normal claim timer on other flags .. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Ringo O'Rourke said:

In PvE it means, oh, some schmuck wants my land, now I have to camp the base continually for the next three weeks until he gets tired  and goes away. So much for sailing!

You have a 3 day protection timer in PvE. You don't have to camp it, just make sure you have someone there to reset the timer every now and then.

Unless by "camping" you mean "return to the claim every 3 days". In that case we have a very different definition of the term.

Edited by moriak

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Posted (edited)

I take it you havnt had to deal with overlapping territory try to refresh that flag and you lose the territory or as i lost mine someone placed a flag down right when i removed mine so coudnd place a new one in the same place and had to move it farther . Oh if you want you can go for camping the enemy flag that was placed down while you removed yours but it will just turn into a camp fest considering logging out dosnt remove the flag you placed and it will still try to go up if no one is near it. @moriak

Edited by JackTheWack

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you guys tend towards the single player mentality, this is not being designed with single players and small companies in mind.

One flag per company wouldn't even cover our town let alone the resources to build our ships. At least with the tax system you get something when someone strip mines your area.

Give the new system a try then take up your arguments again.

You will never get this have to have one flags per company or even a flag limit in the double digits, the game is just not aimed at that type of play.

Read the description of the game where it talks about setting up as a governor and making towns and stuff. That isn't a job for a single player, or even 5-10 players, that is a job for a hundred players working together.

Feel free to find a governing company that has a low tax rate and is willing to allocate some coast line to your company to use as long as you don't cause a fuss. If you start to bitch then they will raise your tax rate to 30% and leave everyone else's at 5%.

or

Go fight for the land. Go and find whoever has the most land and take some of theirs, theirs will be easier to take than anyone else's, make use of the system to work in your favour.

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3 hours ago, microphobe said:

you guys tend towards the single player mentality, this is not being designed with single players and small companies in mind.

One flag per company wouldn't even cover our town let alone the resources to build our ships. At least with the tax system you get something when someone strip mines your area.

Give the new system a try then take up your arguments again.

You will never get this have to have one flags per company or even a flag limit in the double digits, the game is just not aimed at that type of play.

Read the description of the game where it talks about setting up as a governor and making towns and stuff. That isn't a job for a single player, or even 5-10 players, that is a job for a hundred players working together.

Feel free to find a governing company that has a low tax rate and is willing to allocate some coast line to your company to use as long as you don't cause a fuss. If you start to bitch then they will raise your tax rate to 30% and leave everyone else's at 5%.

or

Go fight for the land. Go and find whoever has the most land and take some of theirs, theirs will be easier to take than anyone else's, make use of the system to work in your favour.

All your arguments are based on PvP. Keep in mind that this is just for official PvE servers. On PvP you will have safety to some extent when living on a megatribe's territory (and paying taxes). On PvE you don't get anytjing in return, but you just pay taxes to griefers. I don't think you understand the core problem here...

Also, why on earth do you need to claim resource spots? 

This topic is not about setting a strict limit for flags. It's about encouraging people to own less territory, but still allowing people to own more. There must be a downside to have more flags. This is to eliminate griefing.

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8 hours ago, Ringo O'Rourke said:

The issue with flags in PvE is the contesting timer.  It's made for PvP, as in, oh, the countdown has begun I have X amount of time to prepare for a fight and defend my base.

In PvE it means, oh, some schmuck wants my land, now I have to camp the base continually for the next three weeks until he gets tired  and goes away. So much for sailing!

A pillar claim system that is modified to prevent spam is a far better system. It should have X number of days decay based on log-in or interacting with the objects, and could even have a resource tax based on size of claim. This way whether your claim is preserved or not is down to you, not your neighbour.

20 years of PvE game design has pretty much shown any interactions between players can be a cause of grief. Some things aren't worth worrying about, but land claims are fundamental in Atlas. It needs a system where other players don't affect you directly.

 

THEY NEVER MANAGED TO LIMIT IT IN ARK they wont in this game either pillars or flags makes no difference 

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17 hours ago, microphobe said:

you guys tend towards the single player mentality, this is not being designed with single players and small companies in mind.

One flag per company wouldn't even cover our town let alone the resources to build our ships. At least with the tax system you get something when someone strip mines your area.

Give the new system a try then take up your arguments again.

You will never get this have to have one flags per company or even a flag limit in the double digits, the game is just not aimed at that type of play.

Read the description of the game where it talks about setting up as a governor and making towns and stuff. That isn't a job for a single player, or even 5-10 players, that is a job for a hundred players working together.

Feel free to find a governing company that has a low tax rate and is willing to allocate some coast line to your company to use as long as you don't cause a fuss. If you start to bitch then they will raise your tax rate to 30% and leave everyone else's at 5%.

or

Go fight for the land. Go and find whoever has the most land and take some of theirs, theirs will be easier to take than anyone else's, make use of the system to work in your favour.

I am also against a mentality of 1 flag per company. I agree with you that bigger companies need more space, are more people and should have the option to expand. If a company with 100 people takes over a whole block with 3 islands then that's fine. More people need more space and it should always be something along the lines that it's for example 1 flag per person. That means small companies have only a few flags available and big companies still have a large territory they can take.

For finding a company who lets you stay there for some taxes, it doesn't sound bad and I want to give it a try. Only risk I see is that you will end up at a company who then turns their backs on you. You hear a lot of people complaining about ships being overloaded by other players or taking agressive steps as much as possible even if it's PvE. Maybe it's not so bad as it sounds as you probably only read about the negative stuff, I mean nobody will come into the forum to tell about the great company they found and who let them take a bit of land. On the other side many people will complain if some bad stuff happened. So yeah, I want to see how it turns out in the end, but there are some risks involved that are not fixed yet.

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Posted (edited)

i´m just a bit confused...will i be able to set every flag individually? or do i allow them automatically to build on all of our land?

and if its only one flag...and they build in that whole area...what am i taxing there? the air they breath? oO

 

Edited by Chacytay

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Pretty sure the tax applies to anywhere you have a flag. So you won't get to tax where they build, only where they harvest resources.

8 minutes ago, Chacytay said:

i´m just a bit confused...will i be able to set every flag individually? or do i allow them automatically to build on all of our land?

and if its only one flag...and they build in that whole area...what am i taxing there? the air they breath? oO

 

 

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hmmm ok....the taxing thing would be nice....if it was for example 1gold/day....but the resourcetaxing i already have for the other companies on the island...no need to let anyone build on my territory...other than beeing nice...what i´m absolutely not xD

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1 hour ago, Chacytay said:

hmmm ok....the taxing thing would be nice....if it was for example 1gold/day....but the resourcetaxing i already have for the other companies on the island...no need to let anyone build on my territory...other than beeing nice...what i´m absolutely not xD

No need to let anyone build on your territory? Is there any need for you to even have that territory?

Do you see the problem here?

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3 hours ago, Chacytay said:

as i´m building on the territory...yes i see the need of having it 

Because you make it sound like you have the entire island. How many claims do you have, and do you build on all of them?

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v10.42 update:

- The time required to steal an enemy claim now decreases the more Claims that enemy team has.

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3 hours ago, Psykonalle said:

Because you make it sound like you have the entire island. How many claims do you have, and do you build on all of them?

I can't be the only one building vertical to save some land for others....

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, MindOfMadness said:

I can't be the only one building vertical to save some land for others....

Well, let us know when someone overlap you claim (and you base) by claiming inactive neighbor 😞 This is the biggest problem why I over claimed more than i need for base.
Also there is a problem of tames/animal pen - you need space for that 😞 , till it's much smaller one and imho one claim would be sufficient in most terrains. Two claims are good imho for practically every terrain. Then come buffer zone for freaking overlapping zone and you have like 4-5 additional claims to be safe from loosing your stuff. This imho is minimum right now to not be worried too much - I mean not have to worry about existing problems and bugs with claims. If they insert anything new, it can wipe you out, but well, there is only so far as you can prepare.

Edited by Elrood

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21 minutes ago, Elrood said:

Well, let us know when someone overlap you claim (and you base) by claiming inactive neighbor 😞 This is the biggest problem why I over claimed more than i need for base.
Also there is a problem of tames/animal pen - you need space for that 😞 , till it's much smaller one and imho one claim would be sufficient in most terrains. Two claims are good imho for practically every terrain. Then come buffer zone for freaking overlapping zone and you have like 4-5 additional claims to be safe from loosing your stuff. This imho is minimum right now to not be worried too much - I mean not have to worry about existing problems and bugs with claims. If they insert anything new, it can wipe you out, but well, there is only so far as you can prepare.

The overlap thing doesn't make sense. That should of been obvious to the devs it was gonna cause problems.

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