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Padwah

Warehouse

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1 hour ago, Gomez Addams said:

Here’s an update for lawless PVE. The warehouses and markets are working fine. I am making lots of gold and exotic resources without doing anything. Every few minutes a shipment leaves or arrives. I can now just sit on the beach and enjoy the sun. Someday I might go fight something but in the meantime I will just grow some food and bake a pie.The key was destroying the market and rebuilding it. Make sure you limit your trade routes to 8.

Well, nice to hear, grats! Unfortunatly mine stopped working at this morning, dont know why. But, fortunatly, in the 30 hour(ish) lifetime generated a few thousand gold, thats still better, than nothing.

Still i dont know, how to delete the "sent" or "cancelled" trade routes from the bottom-left panel/list. The limit is 10 trade routes, so i can't add more before i delete or remove a few unusable route. But how?

One more thing: so the magic number is 8, as you said, with 9 or 10 trade routes the system will not work?

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11 hours ago, Ranger1k said:

 First off, love ya bro ....i assure that my intention isn't to insult, i reserve that for eeecee 😁. Most recent patch notes indicate lots of changes and plans evolving ... Sorry to debate ya dood but i think your mistaken, time will tell.

Cringe

10 hours ago, Whitehawk said:

I love dark and light, but 3 years later still ea. Outlaws of the old west still ea.

Yeh same

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@PiszkosFred I said 8 because when I look at the other company trade routes it says 7/8, 3/8, 16/8, etc., so I figured  8 was the limit. I may be incorrect,  Glad to hear about the income, I suppose if we had 8 routes all shipping and receiving, it would make plenty of gold to build ships. 

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13 hours ago, Ranger1k said:

 First off, love ya bro.

However PvP MMOs, especially hardcore ones, suffer from a paradoxical flaw. That being the wolves and sheep dilemma. Unless fresh sheep are constantly brought in somehow, the wolves eat all the sheep then the game dies. Its happened to the VAST majority of hardcore pvpmmos. Unless some type of balancing mechanism is introduced this IS what happens. Period. So content updates ARE required still... Ark DLC anyone?..🙄

Also you cited someone (the devs?) saying no plans for interior furnishings. Which devs? The 40k per server devs? The creators of the old roadmap? Sorry if I'm sounding like a smartass, i assure that my intention isn't to insult, i reserve that for eeecee 😁. Most recent patch notes indicate lots of changes and plans evolving..

Also "easier" is a relative term. If we define easier as less work, sure maybe. However i would take it a step further and say taking the easier route will also make less money AND result in a less enjoyable game. Case and point Conan, it has what, about 10+ dlcs, mostly cosmetic crap. I don't even like the game really but they've milked me for probably over $100 bucks.

Last thing, i don't think you actually refuted a single point i made.

Sorry to debate ya dood but i think your mistaken, time will tell.

This is a great post that shows way more familiarity with PVP design than anything the devs have posted. PVP absolutely relies on an influx of newer players or it stagnates and dies. Griefers and seal clubbers drive newbies away. So do high barriers to content (looking at gold requirements for ships). To get to some sort of equilibrium, you need upward pressure on the bottom (to motivate newer, less skilled players) and downward pressure on the top (to avoid too much consolidation of power/complacency). This is why things like flat costs are generally bad (they are hard on newbies/lowbies) and scaled/ramping costs are better (more expensive for better stuff).

PVE is often much easier to balance as adding new animals, furniture, etc. is fairly easy and uses existing systems. Adding those same things in PVP is tougher if they affect the balance of power.

 

The real issue is that maintaining multiple servers is a constant expense, as are dev salaries and the game relies on pushing waves of discounted purchases. A subscription service for official would be a more stable way to get income, but would drive down active numbers and, right now, the broken systems and frequent wipes probably wouldn't sustain subscriptions. It would also pressure them to listen to players or risk losing income, whereas now the players are basically just unpaid beta testers.

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4 hours ago, Gomez Addams said:

Here’s an update for lawless PVE. The warehouses and markets are working fine. I am making lots of gold and exotic resources without doing anything. Every few minutes a shipment leaves or arrives. I can now just sit on the beach and enjoy the sun. Someday I might go fight something but in the meantime I will just grow some food and bake a pie.The key was destroying the market and rebuilding it. Make sure you limit your trade routes to 8.

Teach me this, wise one. I crave your know-how to get my market working - - My previous setup had 2 FH connected to my WH, which at the time was connected to my market at a distance of 19 meters. I'm certain I've read that the WH needs to be within 30 meters of the shore. I can guarantee that my warehouse is within the 30 meters of a shore because the market was 19 meters away, and it was at water's edge. I had trade routes in the panel listed as "Accepted"....yet not a single coin... I've recently moved the market so that it is literally directly in front of the warehouse, to the point I think it's actually touching the warehouse, which now says the warehouse is connected at a distance of 10 meters (even though, as I stated, they're close enough to be touching). Once again I have connected routes, or so it says, but still no coin. I know you can't see my setup, but based on that, can you detect anything wrong?

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49 minutes ago, UnderTaker905 said:

Once again I have connected routes, or so it says, but still no coin. I know you can't see my setup, but based on that, can you detect anything wrong?

For me the coins started to come / the system started to work when

1. i changed the market private then back to public (probably it means nothing, but why not?) 🙂

2. Suspended then unsuspended the Market (remember the first rule if something is wrong: reboot - Gomez destroyed then rebuilt the market and that worked for him too)

3. Then i deleted all of my offers and i put back only a few, manageable offer from a same input and output with 1:1 ratio. For example, i had 4 offer: strongwood for strongwood 1:1, Fronds for Fronds 1:1, Granite for Granite 1:1 and Honey for Honey 1:1.

4. I had 5-6 accepted trade routes, 2 canceled and maybe 1-2 sent or received.

I made business only with 1 tribe/company, i sent to them wood and received the exact same ammount. Same with thatch. For 30 hours, in every 5-6 mins a new shipment has been generated beetween us. Sometimes i got 9 gold from it, sometimes only 1 gold, sometimes the ship captain stole my whole cargo, or got different materials or parrot eggs as bonus reward. These random mini events/random stories probably are there only for some fun.

I could trade in the same region only (because of the dev's limitation), and in these 30 hour period i got 3000-3500 gold, so this gave me around a 100-110 gold per hour passive income. I think, later, when the devs will allow trading with different grid, this ammount will be higher, much higher. So, if you have a warehouse+market combo, this system can generate the gold ammount you need for tier 2-3-4 ships in a few a days/weeks.

But, then suddenly this morning it was over, dont ask why, i dont know. After i go home from work i wanna figure out...

Edited by PiszkosFred

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I have set up my trade preferences to reflect what is available in my grid because it is only one grid trading currently. For example, 1:1 strong wood for iridium, fronds for strong wood, iridium for fronds, iridium  for strong wood. I didn’t really care about what I was getting I just wanted it to work. I also talked to the other  folks to make sure they wanted what I had.

I hope this helps.

lol what Fred said

Hey Fred, is it possible that your trading partner ran out of whatever materials you asked for? I noticed last night that I was completely out of wood but had 120000 metal. 

Edited by Gomez Addams
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59 minutes ago, UnderTaker905 said:

Teach me this, wise one. I crave your know-how to get my market working - - My previous setup had 2 FH connected to my WH, which at the time was connected to my market at a distance of 19 meters. I'm certain I've read that the WH needs to be within 30 meters of the shore. I can guarantee that my warehouse is within the 30 meters of a shore because the market was 19 meters away, and it was at water's edge. I had trade routes in the panel listed as "Accepted"....yet not a single coin... I've recently moved the market so that it is literally directly in front of the warehouse, to the point I think it's actually touching the warehouse, which now says the warehouse is connected at a distance of 10 meters (even though, as I stated, they're close enough to be touching). Once again I have connected routes, or so it says, but still no coin. I know you can't see my setup, but based on that, can you detect anything wrong?

I'm having the same ssue. Just rebuilt my market and made 6 trade requests. Also I'm playing on console so i don't know if thats part of the issue. Since wipe I've only had 2 trades for 14 gold go through. Im going to try asking out loud in grid for trade partners next time i log in.

 

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2 hours ago, jmurph said:

This is a great post that shows way more familiarity with PVP design than anything the devs have posted. PVP absolutely relies on an influx of newer players or it stagnates and dies. Griefers and seal clubbers drive newbies away. So do high barriers to content (looking at gold requirements for ships). To get to some sort of equilibrium, you need upward pressure on the bottom (to motivate newer, less skilled players) and downward pressure on the top (to avoid too much consolidation of power/complacency). This is why things like flat costs are generally bad (they are hard on newbies/lowbies) and scaled/ramping costs are better (more expensive for better stuff).

PVE is often much easier to balance as adding new animals, furniture, etc. is fairly easy and uses existing systems. Adding those same things in PVP is tougher if they affect the balance of power.

 

The real issue is that maintaining multiple servers is a constant expense, as are dev salaries and the game relies on pushing waves of discounted purchases. A subscription service for official would be a more stable way to get income, but would drive down active numbers and, right now, the broken systems and frequent wipes probably wouldn't sustain subscriptions. It would also pressure them to listen to players or risk losing income, whereas now the players are basically just unpaid beta testers.

      I doubt i have more familiarity w PvP design than a group of people doing it daily. There are several reasons why they don't post as much or as often

           1. Probably busy working

           2. They have NDAs and content announcements probably have an approval process, which takes time

           3. When they DO post they have to be pretty sure of what they say

          4. Their posts generally refer to concrete subject matter (small amounts of subject matter) whereas our posts refer to an endless abundance of subject matter (needs, wants, theories, complaints ,etc)

          5. I believe they are currently working on the equilibrium paradox as we speak. Hence farmhouses, markets, armored docks, trade etc. This shows they're aware of it.

          6. Last thing. Speaking less is a great tactic to get other people speaking and revealing things; telling you whats wrong, what they want, their attitude towards you, their motivation , ideas etc.

 

Other than taking issue with your initial statement regarding me vs devs, i think you put forth some solid points.

PS Thanks for the compliment

Edited by Ranger1k

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@jmurph

I'm still laughing you called them "seal clubbers" 🤣

I remember a pvp game i was in had a guild called "The Seal Cub Clubbing Club"... lol... Sooo wrong that it makes it funny

 

Say that 5 times as fast as ya can

Edited by Ranger1k

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1 hour ago, Gomez Addams said:

Hey Fred, is it possible that your trading partner ran out of whatever materials you asked for? I noticed last night that I was completely out of wood but had 120000 metal. 

Well, thats a possible answer, yes. At least i think we both didnt change anything, because it worked like a charm, there was no reason.

I took your advice, and destroyed then recreated the market, now i have a clear trade route's panel - no more inacitve and undeletable routes. I dont know it will work or not, but at least i tried something new, already sent some request.

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16 hours ago, Ranger1k said:

LoL 😂 Full roof required or they can glide in... LoL

🤣

Sidenote i also successfully soloed PvP, although I'll admit I did it as a settler.

To OP @Padwah , check around in a week or 2, people have short attention spans, there will be some decayed stuff around. Also, worst case scenario join someones company till then, I wouldn't know half the tricks I know if i hadn't joined a company here and there... Just set aside a little hidden PIN CODED box and set aside a reasonable portion of your earnings... 

The goal is for them to not be able to get out, like a wasp trap. 

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26 minutes ago, Chucksteak said:

The goal is for them to not be able to get out, like a wasp trap. 

Renew the decay timer then puch till ya die. Or eat a chicken turd, i did that once on accident and it insta-killed me, guessing it still works

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17 hours ago, Ranger1k said:

 First off, love ya bro.

However PvP MMOs, especially hardcore ones, suffer from a paradoxical flaw. That being the wolves and sheep dilemma. Unless fresh sheep are constantly brought in somehow, the wolves eat all the sheep then the game dies. Its happened to the VAST majority of hardcore pvpmmos. Unless some type of balancing mechanism is introduced this IS what happens. Period. So content updates ARE required still... Ark DLC anyone?..🙄

 

3 hours ago, jmurph said:

This is a great post that shows way more familiarity with PVP design than anything the devs have posted. PVP absolutely relies on an influx of newer players or it stagnates and dies. Griefers and seal clubbers drive newbies away. So do high barriers to content (looking at gold requirements for ships). To get to some sort of equilibrium, you need upward pressure on the bottom (to motivate newer, less skilled players) and downward pressure on the top (to avoid too much consolidation of power/complacency). This is why things like flat costs are generally bad (they are hard on newbies/lowbies) and scaled/ramping costs are better (more expensive for better stuff).

PVE is often much easier to balance as adding new animals, furniture, etc. is fairly easy and uses existing systems. Adding those same things in PVP is tougher if they affect the balance of power.

 

The real issue is that maintaining multiple servers is a constant expense, as are dev salaries and the game relies on pushing waves of discounted purchases. A subscription service for official would be a more stable way to get income, but would drive down active numbers and, right now, the broken systems and frequent wipes probably wouldn't sustain subscriptions. It would also pressure them to listen to players or risk losing income, whereas now the players are basically just unpaid beta testers.

What you refer to as "Wolf and Sheep" dilemma, I call a lack of proper incentive. By default the mechanics will always favor a bigger company, cant be helped. This makes the default incentive to join a bigger company. 

Examples:

1. The wolves go after the sheep because there is no incentive for them to go after another wolf. In fact the incentive is currently reversed. It costs/risks nothing to cruise by lawless and level everything insight. Where as you could loose all your gear and fleet in a more competitive engagement. 

2. There is no incentive to take over someone's island if you already have your own. In fact, its reversed again. There is more benefit/incentive to defending your island than taking someone else's. Even worse, the implied incentive is for a solo/small company to try to get an island with that sweet peace timer. GL 1 or 2 vs 50+.

If we had proper incentives for the bigger wolves, they would not eat all of the sheep. We need something to compete for that is tangible, rewarding, and progressive. 

Example:

Lineage 2 had castles that could be contested every other weekend. Some smaller castles that drew tax from their local towns, and some larger castles that drew tax from the region. Bigger clans would go for bigger castles, smaller clans would go for smaller castles. Solos and tiny clans would go for forts. A group of 4 would be happy with a fort, knowing they could never take a castle, because outside of taxes, they functioned similarly, both had stores, buffs and teleporters.

The owning an island and taxing residents was an attempt at this, but the balance is lopsided. The owner has near complete control of residents and structures and gets the tax. The little guy gets nothing from the deal.

The WH and trade markets are a good step towards this. 

Personally (as a rough draft), I would add NPCs with stores and AH in freeports (a working economy basically), then a central island that is claimable once a week that sets/draws tax from the 4 freeport islands and perhaps a portion of the control points. The control points are for solos and small companies to squabble over, while the bigger companies would contend for the central island. This is all after removing claimable islands OFC. Lets open the map back up, make everything lawless outside of freeports.

 

Oh, and not once will I ever care about what a dev spends on servers. Their monetary concerns are theirs, not mine. We didn't fund the game with our $5-15 per person. They are a business and it takes money to make money. They will not make money without a game that can release and sell for $40-60 a copy.

hmmm....unless your Star Citizen. 

Edited by Chucksteak
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30 minutes ago, Ranger1k said:

Renew the decay timer then puch till ya die. Or eat a chicken turd, i did that once on accident and it insta-killed me, guessing it still works

Its just a thought of what I would do if I was a pirate who could not pirate anyone. Still depriving them of using the gathered resources in any useful way. 

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48 minutes ago, Chucksteak said:

 

What you refer to as "Wolf and Sheep" dilemma, I call a lack of proper incentive. By default the mechanics will always favor a bigger company, cant be helped. This makes the default incentive to join a bigger company. 

Examples:

1. The wolves go after the sheep because there is no incentive for them to go after another wolf. In fact the incentive is currently reversed. It costs/risks nothing to cruise by lawless and level everything insight. Where as you could loose all your gear and fleet in a more competitive engagement. 

2. There is no incentive to take over someone's island if you already have your own. In fact, its reversed again. There is more benefit/incentive to defending your island than taking someone else's. Even worse, the implied incentive is for a solo/small company to try to get an island with that sweet peace timer. GL 1 or 2 vs 50+.

If we had proper incentives for the bigger wolves, they would not eat all of the sheep. We need something to compete for that is tangible, rewarding, and progressive. 

Example:

Lineage 2 had castles that could be contested every other weekend. Some smaller castles that drew tax from their local towns, and some larger castles that drew tax from the region. Bigger clans would go for bigger castles, smaller clans would go for smaller castles. Solos and tiny clans would go for forts. A group of 4 would be happy with a fort, knowing they could never take a castle, because outside of taxes, they functioned similarly, both had stores, buffs and teleporters.

The owning an island and taxing residents was an attempt at this, but the balance is lopsided. The owner has near complete control of residents and structures and gets the tax. The little guy gets nothing from the deal.

The WH and trade markets are a good step towards this. 

Personally (as a rough draft), I would add NPCs with stores and AH in freeports (a working economy basically), then a central island that is claimable once a week that sets/draws tax from the 4 freeport islands and perhaps a portion of the control points. The control points are for solos and small companies to squabble over, while the bigger companies would contend for the central island. This is all after removing claimable islands OFC. Lets open the map back up, make everything lawless outside of freeports.

 

Oh, and not once will I ever care about what a dev spends on servers. Their monetary concerns are theirs, not mine. We didn't fund the game with our $5-15 per person. They are a business and it takes money to make money. They will not make money without a game that can release and sell for $40-60 a copy.

hmmm....unless your Star Citizen. 

Well stated. 👍

I have another method, but, when i spoke to a trusted University Professor (teaching in related subject matter), he advised me to speak w a copyright lawyer before I say anything. Still deciding. Kinda a big deal, pretty sure it's a novel approach in the gaming industry. 😏

 

38 minutes ago, Chucksteak said:

Its just a thought of what I would do if I was a pirate who could not pirate anyone. Still depriving them of using the gathered resources in any useful way. 

 

Solid point, IF the devs don't intervene they'll have to perform runs from their farmhouse, unless that gets walled off also. Another thread indicated devs are intervening in clear cases of PvE griefing though.

Edited by Ranger1k

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