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Ranger1k

Since your still testing the shipping section of trading...

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Advice, things to consider devs...

1. Can Company A initiate a trade, then cancel it and still receive Company B goods?

2. Can Company A initiate a trade, then just go sink/ steal both ships?

3. If Company A initiates a trade and a 3rd party (such as a co-conspirator or 2nd account) sinks/steals the outgoing cargo does Company A still receive their goods from Company B?

4. Will trade vessels be armed? It appeared so in the pictures..

5. Can the control point owner just camp their site and just sink/steal all the cargo flowing through under protection of said control point?

6. What happens if a control point changes hands after a trade has been initiated.. Both when alternative routes are available and, more importantly, when they're not?

7. Will the "trade tax" be paid up front at the market or transformed into gold out of the cargo?

8. Will, or have you considered, making insurance a part of this? Insurance was an actual product utilized back in the day...

9. How will Sotd react to trade ships? What about killer whales? Even mermaids..Consequences for traders?

10. If trade ships ARE armed will they initiate battles w nearby players or only respond to aggression? Will they fight or just fire but stay on course?

11. Have you considered letting transaction participants choose/ pay for higher/ lower levels of shipping vessl armament?

12. What effect will cyclones have on trade vessels?

13. Will the trade ships be labeled in some way so that people know which companies cargo they're plundering?

14. Will there be an announcement/log file when negative events occur?

     Last thing, it was stated, if i remember correctly, that at a certain point the trade vessel will be/ become virtual to reduce server load, correct? It may be wise to begin ALL transactions as virtual until the above mentioned exploits and scenarios have been addressed imo. Have a steady flow of "generic-npc" trade ships for players to plunder for fun at the outset perhaps?

 

Advice to players

Make small/ frequent trades initially to reduce the cost benefit for nefarious trade partners.

 

Anyone have a scenario i missed to help the devs?

 

Have a good day everyone. 😉

Edited by Ranger1k

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sure you missed one

not using this <> at all 😄

 

they should make world chat available and let people trade like now

they should use the trade route to send recources/items to your base that can be ambushed that would be dope

and btw

since laweless is a stupid circle, all the materials are there except ironwood (even if you do laweless on the outer circle it is stupid to just drive a circle, and you still have a new inner circle with propably the same materials but only these islands are claimable wich would be the better choice so people are closer to golden age ruins and the maw, if you make an inner claimable island circle the vast majority of the various recources has to go wich i would do with laweless now, rly just driving a circle and having all the various materials 5/5 it not good, i've never visited claimable islands for anything else than treasure maps)

i think we need the old map again or the current one heavily edited, mats and islands, remove almost all rare mats from the inner laweless circle and give claim islands the rare recources.

they maybe have to work on rarity of recources aswell

Edited by photek

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I definitely agree the old map had a better biome arrangement.

Does lawless have control points?

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11 hours ago, Ranger1k said:

I definitely agree the old map had a better biome arrangement.

Does lawless have control points?

yes. lawless just needs to be removed from the game. 

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1 hour ago, Acemac said:

yes. lawless just needs to be removed from the game. 

huh?

You would force players to only 2 choices. Be big enough to hold an island, or be forced to pay taxes on someone else's island?

I've done both of those and they both suck compared to lawless living.

If anything, get rid of claimed islands, go 100% lawless. Claiming is the dumbest and worst part of this game. Pirates don't become land lords and governors.

Couple that with reducing max ship count to 3 per person in company, and let the green anchors be safe everywhere from taking or receiving dmg. Fix the bugs, slap a box on it and sell the trading ships as a DLC if they ever work out. BOOM, how hard is that GS?

Oh fuck, umm yeah, we should also go ahead and count the barrels a a bug even though the devs don't agree. I take back what I said about them having good ideas.

 

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Thought of more scenarios for players and devs to play through/ test/ consider...

15. Successful trade completion. Where do the trade goods end up? I assumed thats why "docks" were mentioned several months ago?

    a. Do the trade ships have to be manually unloaded?

     b. If auto unloaded to where? Market? Warehouse? Docks? Special "designated" resource box? Tax bank? Option customizable?

     c. Most importantly, if theres a stack cap on the recieving structure what happens to the excess mats?

     d. Don't forget the recipients may wish to place access resrictions on the receptacle (sp?)

16. What happens to trade goods (en route) AND control points when...

     a. A company disbands?

      b. Changes ownership?

     c. Adjusts access restrictions? Makes other adjustments?

     d. Decay timers activate?

 

Again, good luck & best wishes

Edited by Ranger1k

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21 hours ago, Ranger1k said:

Advice, things to consider devs...

1. Can Company A initiate a trade, then cancel it and still receive Company B goods?

2. Can Company A initiate a trade, then just go sink/ steal both ships?

3. If Company A initiates a trade and a 3rd party (such as a co-conspirator or 2nd account) sinks/steals the outgoing cargo does Company A still receive their goods from Company B?

4. Will trade vessels be armed? It appeared so in the pictures..

5. Can the control point owner just camp their site and just sink/steal all the cargo flowing through under protection of said control point?

6. What happens if a control point changes hands after a trade has been initiated.. Both when alternative routes are available and, more importantly, when they're not?

7. Will the "trade tax" be paid up front at the market or transformed into gold out of the cargo?

8. Will, or have you considered, making insurance a part of this? Insurance was an actual product utilized back in the day...

9. How will Sotd react to trade ships? What about killer whales? Even mermaids..Consequences for traders?

10. If trade ships ARE armed will they initiate battles w nearby players or only respond to aggression? Will they fight or just fire but stay on course?

11. Have you considered letting transaction participants choose/ pay for higher/ lower levels of shipping vessl armament?

12. What effect will cyclones have on trade vessels?

13. Will the trade ships be labeled in some way so that people know which companies cargo they're plundering?

14. Will there be an announcement/log file when negative events occur?

     Last thing, it was stated, if i remember correctly, that at a certain point the trade vessel will be/ become virtual to reduce server load, correct? It may be wise to begin ALL transactions as virtual until the above mentioned exploits and scenarios have been addressed imo. Have a steady flow of "generic-npc" trade ships for players to plunder for fun at the outset perhaps?

 

Advice to players

Make small/ frequent trades initially to reduce the cost benefit for nefarious trade partners.

 

Anyone have a scenario i missed to help the devs?

 

Have a good day everyone. 😉

 

I am not a  dev, but these are easy thought experiments if you just go by what they are implying.

1. You can cancel any route until the boat has left. Once the boat has left, your mats are gone from your WH and are now en-route. They either will, or will not make their destination.

2. Under certain conditions. Company A would have to be at both boats to accomplish this. IF both boats took the same route, and both boats made it halfway intact, and you knew the route (likely not shown), and its possible to attack your own boat, then I suppose you could be at the halfway point to ambush them. That would be an incredible amount of effort to steal something that is on its way to you anyways. 

3. Good question. I would imagine the B ship would turn around and go back to port to return its goods to sender. It could also be that B arrives with goods but no gold is generated. It could also be that B just dissolves and all mats are lost at sea.

4. I don't see any reason they shouldn't be armed similar to a SoTD. Code for that is already in place.

5. Yes, they could. Although they will forfeit the gold from taxes they stand to make. Its just a spot on the sea, I would imagine farming the gold to be more desirable than constantly shipping raw mats somewhere else.

6. The route will either be auto generated when the boat departs, or it will evaluate after each checkpoint. I would guess the former based on nothing. If a checkpoint changes hands at any point, then the only difference is who gets the taxes, and possibly what the tax rate is. 

7. The gold amount is determined by the distance of the destination. The gold should auto generate at each tax point, and at the arrival of the destination. It is possible it generates on board at set intervals. Depending on if the devs want us to profit gold from sinking these or not. I would assume the gold does not exist on the trade boats but simply populates upon arrival to prevent exploitations. 

8. Insurance was not mentioned. Its for the best not to add more moving parts than necessary. Besides, your shipping something your FHs and WHs did all the work for at no risk to yourself or time. What are you insuring?

9. I would imagine the ships are treated the same as SoTD are across the board. Left alone by all other NPCs and functions.

10. I would guess they have a primary goal of arriving at destination. They will probably respond to protect themselves, but not engage and chase.

11. Nothing of this sort was mentioned.

12. None. See #9.

13. No. 

14. Maybe. That or a log of completed trades, or a full account of both.

15. Virtual trades were stated to generate when the live ones were already deployed and to prevent overcrowding. I would imagine the vast majority of successful trades will be done by pushing out your live ones to force the virtual ones knowing they wont be sank.

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9 minutes ago, Ranger1k said:

Thought of another scenario for players and devs to play through/ test/ consider...

15. Successful trade completion. Where do the trade goods end up? I assumed thats why "docks" were mentioned several months ago?

    a. Do the trade ships have to be manually unloaded?

     b. If auto unloaded to where? Market? Warehouse? Docks? Special "designated" resource box? Tax bank? Option customizable?

     c. Most importantly, if theres a stack cap on the recieving structure what happens to the excess mats?

     d. Don't forget the recipients may wish to place access resrictions on the receptacle (sp?)

 

Again, good look & best wishes

They end up in the WH. 

a. no lol

b. WH, because you know....its a WH.

c. *POOF*....EA, what did you expect? No, probably like a smithy that's full when you craft. It just autogenerates a new spot.

d. I don't remember anything like this mentioned.

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@Chucksteak

     Was editing as you responded. Threw in a few more curveballs to help ensure thorough consideration was given to avoid problems/ exploits and most importantly BUGS

     Sidenote this was more of a "brainstorming" and checklist style thread than prediction oriented.

Thanks for the input though ya salty ol scallywag you 😉

Edited by Ranger1k

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@Chucksteak and others who wish to constructively analyze possibilities.. 😜

     Not such easy thought experiments actually... Possibilities are significant...

     Will material being shipped affect speed? ( guessing probably not) but theres more to it... Picture showed no sail... So i guess like SotD w wind and weather. Ok.

Multiple mats per ship or each mat gets a ship?

Load capacity? Minimums to prevent spam? Maximums - 1 trade ship carry, say 10k metal? 20k? 250k?.. You get the idea.. or standardized amounts per ship depending on weight?

Lets go further down the rabbit hole... Lets say i use my lil schooner to sink a trade ship w 50k metal.. Will there be a private or public marker for leftovers? Will it have a decay timer? How long?

Sidenote i think the taxes should probably be carried on the trade ship, locked rate upon departure, to further incentivise sea battles... However, going further down the rabbit hole, will this result in a double reward for control point owners by letting them collect the tax then destroy the trade ship after it pays its toll? 🤪

    Not trying to be a troll/ negative nancy or a hater..

Seperate rabbit hole. Cant remember if company logs note resource removal (don't think so) but the receiving structure should be one thats convenient to place access restrictions upon so that if JimBob McGee (the newb/ spy/ frenemy) steals it people aren't screaming about bugs etc..

     Comon people lets mentally bend it & break it PRE LAUNCH for these developers so they can have a good rollout and get back to optimization, bug removal, balance decisions and creating new content..

   Last thing, please read previous threads posted before commenting and please, please stay focused on topics that pertain DIRECTLY to trade.

    Also if you think this is important and have opinions BUMP IT UP

Edited by Ranger1k

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Sorry thought of 2 more..

17. Radius - how close will the trade ships need to get to the reception facility to complete the transaction? Problems if its located far inland? What if the facilty is relocated or destroyed during the voyage?

18. Will sea traps affect trade ships? How will defensive structures on a multi-company island make targeting decisions if the trade ships are labeled?

     I apologize in advance for any ulcers I'm creating, hopefully these postulations are helpful

I have a bunch more but gotta go..

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"These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... ... and then we fucked up the end game"

Quote from the movie Charlie Wilsons War

19. How will the trade vessels respond when transitioning from an overloaded server to a stable server? Will they transform from virtual to physical? Then back again if needed?

20. How will they interact w harbor defensive walls and crowded shorelines? What about simple ships in the way and collisions?

     Just some food for thought. Hope this helps w testing...

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14 hours ago, Chucksteak said:

huh?

You would force players to only 2 choices. Be big enough to hold an island, or be forced to pay taxes on someone else's island?

I've done both of those and they both suck compared to lawless living.

If anything, get rid of claimed islands, go 100% lawless. Claiming is the dumbest and worst part of this game. Pirates don't become land lords and governors.

Couple that with reducing max ship count to 3 per person in company, and let the green anchors be safe everywhere from taking or receiving dmg. Fix the bugs, slap a box on it and sell the trading ships as a DLC if they ever work out. BOOM, how hard is that GS?

Oh fuck, umm yeah, we should also go ahead and count the barrels a a bug even though the devs don't agree. I take back what I said about them having good ideas.

 

Claiming is the dumbest and worst part of the game? Because you aren't able to hold a island or like settling on someones island? You want 24/7 PVP and everybody just keeps their stuff in freeport or in green anchored invincible ship that is parked next to your base?

This thread is interesting, seems to be a bit of overthinking though when you think about what GS is probably doing.

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I think the most valuable exploit will be to trade with your second account in your second company from the island next to you or maybe from the grid next to you. You trade the same resources from one to the other 1:1 and vise versa. Meanwhile you collect the auto generated gold on the trade point. Of course you could also make this trades with your allies.

Speaking about the trade 1:1? Will it be adjustable to trade for example 2:1 or 1:2 and what can you trade? Wood for Wood? Wood for Gold? Wood for everything? Just soem examples.

So one thing is sure. The PvP companys will find every exploit(useable feature) possible to abuse this system.

Considerung the last patch that broke the farm and warehouse with some crazy bugs this trade system will show us what the devs are capable to do. Let's see if they want the help of the comunity and if they can adress this thoughts here to test all this on a test server before going on the live servers. Maybe our wish comes true and they even answer or respond to this.

MAGA

no barrels

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@eeeceee

      If the "overthinking" comment is referring to the 20+ scenarios/ possibilities and additional rabbithole postulations i disagree. Of course much of it depends on the actual implementation methods, however, that is also part of the theme...

    Can we? Could we? Should we? What if? How will it ACTUALLY be used by players... In OP i suggested keep the trade system VERY simple at the initial launch, understand why lol?

     Also I must admit I'm a bit disappointed that nobody has commented on what/how they'd like to see the trade system work...and exploit scenarios..

     Woot got some input @Nacona as i was writing this.. Shout out to ya 🙂PS  Pic shows variable ratios btw if i understand your question correctly. That leads to ANOTHER possible rabbithole - how competitive will the bidding be? Bid vs WHOLE MAP or defined distance etc..

Another example.. Does gold "auto generate" or get paid by users? Perhaps both even... Maybe holding a control point should yield X amount of gold per hour even if theres ZERO trade...

    i know theres alot of other bugs and stuff but keeping this thread bumping could really have a positive impact and also head off disasters. It could give checklists and choices for Generic choice a, b, c and immediate trouble shooting pointers..

    G'night

Edited by Ranger1k

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oh lol i somehow did not read the hole announcement. I got directly navigated to the give aways and wonder about the less amount of information below that. I will read it now.

Edit: Thx @Ranger1k

Ok i see they posted a feedback about some issues with the map. Thumbs up Devs. Keep it going to answer. 🤩

My concern with the changed farm and warhouse which leads to new bugs in my opinion was not mentioned.

But they show pictures that show trade and make my former questions already answered. But there are some type of resources missing. Salt, mythos, sugar for example. Also Gold is not tradeable. Which means Players need to drive it themselfs which is obviuosly good thing as this transport can be interrupted in the standard way. Treasure Maps would be interesting goods to trade as well(but difficult in the first place)

Also I rememer the trailer where is mentioned that Players can not be only pirates. They also could play as the Royal Marine force like a Police if they intended to do(If that ever was like this in history). But this noble Play will not happen on PvP. Maybe on a Roll Play Server. At least you don't have a choosen Faction for that. But i get little off topic. Delic tried the Police Station on Season 3 EU PvP at least... it got destoryed of course... but some nice stuff happened in Roll Play mode as police Officer Delic stopped some ships for control. PvP is just a total war destroy game in best case when enemy is offline.

Edited by Nacona
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My point was that the devs and players can say anything, and it is correct to say much of any situation depends on the 'actual implementation methods'. And then we get barrels or a camelophant etc.

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8 hours ago, eeeceee said:

Claiming is the dumbest and worst part of the game? Because you aren't able to hold a island or like settling on someones island? You want 24/7 PVP and everybody just keeps their stuff in freeport or in green anchored invincible ship that is parked next to your base?

Yes, claiming and taxing settlers is the worst part of the game....easily. it's the reason S1 ended, it's the reason s2 ended, it's why most people leave the game. It could work, but it doesnt.

Lawless works. Do I want 24/7 pvp? I did choose a PvP server afterall. I might get raided, but I've never been wiped on lawless. Also, it's not mongolians attacking every second. That's obtuse thinking. 

You wanna park next to my base? If you can fly sure. It's my fault for leaving my harbor open enough for you to feel safe sailing in there. Do I want your ship immune from taking or dealing dmg when green anchored? Abso-fucking-lutly. Just like mine. Along with a cap so you only have 3 at a time floating.

Just dont get mad if I build cannon towers around your ship if you leave it there too long.

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What exactly are your cannon towers going to do when i leave my ship that is invincible next to you base? Why do you think you would even be able to build cannon towers? ;)

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41 minutes ago, Chucksteak said:

Yes, claiming and taxing settlers is the worst part of the game....easily. it's the reason S1 ended, it's the reason s2 ended, it's why most people leave the game. It could work, but it doesnt.

Lawless works. Do I want 24/7 pvp? I did choose a PvP server afterall. I might get raided, but I've never been wiped on lawless. Also, it's not mongolians attacking every second. That's obtuse thinking. 

You wanna park next to my base? If you can fly sure. It's my fault for leaving my harbor open enough for you to feel safe sailing in there. Do I want your ship immune from taking or dealing dmg when green anchored? Abso-fucking-lutly. Just like mine. Along with a cap so you only have 3 at a time floating.

Just dont get mad if I build cannon towers around your ship if you leave it there too long.

Season 1 ended because of offline raiding and a dupe bug that was addressed 2 months after it was discovered.

Lawless works? Why is every lawless island just a bunch of empty raided houses?

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Ive gotta to be a douche and suggest you start a separate thread regarding complaints w islands/ lawless/ green anchors etc. Sidenote just as many Lawless islands are full of raided stuctures, many Company islands have harbors filled with barely used ships. Get checked weekly and then owners log off..

Please, though, seperate thread

 

Input pertaining to the trade system; break it, exploit it, desired implementation methods, possible unforseen issues, etc

Also i like previous posters ideas such as @Gomez Addams ship parts (building parts?) and @Nacona concerns regarding maps, mythos, gold, sugar etc.

I'd add berries, herbs, cooked food, alcohols, ice,....

Take care. Please skim previous posts before adding content

👍

Edited by Ranger1k

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4 hours ago, Pant said:

Season 1 ended because of offline raiding and a dupe bug that was addressed 2 months after it was discovered.

Lawless works? Why is every lawless island just a bunch of empty raided houses?

Dude they abandon the entirety of the original claim system. Tried a 2nd server with different rules for megas and smalls. Then scrapped that whole claim system and we got the 1st version of the shit bag we have now and it still is the worst part of the game. On top of the dupes. 

Lawless is literally ...lawless.

Lawless works because you only own what you can, use the space you need, and cede what you don't to others. You cant stop me from having some space, and you certainly cant demo my structures or charge me taxes. Because I'm a fucking pirate, I don't pay fucking taxes.

Those raided shells are usually left overs from new people. They leave as fast as they come after realizing there are islands you can own, but that they never will. Some of them are just discovery points for megas, annoying but super easy with barrels to take out a 1 or 2 foundation shack. That's if you cant wait for it to disappear in a few days. 

Regardless, Id rather see a few abandon shacks, than some of these megas hording several islands and spamming them with the shit they do. Its not engaging, its harmful to the server performance, it hampers gameplay and discourages conflict in general. If I owned an island, why would I even bother attacking your island/islands. I would have 1 already and likely spend my time with defense and upkeep of it. NOT ON THE SEA MIND YOU.

The devs talk out one side of their mouth and say they want to drive people to the sea. Then from  the other side they say here, you can OWN an island and defend it. We will even let it be untouchable most of the day, and let you choose when that is. These dumb asses could have just left the original claim flag in place and put hard limits on flags per person/company for all the trouble they've caused trying to make this island ownership work. Better yet, like I said, make every island lawless because lawless actually works. Problem solved.

2 hours ago, eeeceee said:

LOL PLEASE GIVE ME A JOB DEVS!!!!???!??!! hahahahaha

What games have you made or worked on? If your gunna apply in an open forum, at least post your resume.

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@Chucksteak

     Ty for the previous responses, your insight and your candid opinions. I agree w several important things you've said in this thread. I disagree w others..

     Wasn't sure if the @eeeceee quote was directed at him or at me.. and I frankly don't give a shit. Plenty of flashy resumes have been been involved in plenty of flaming shit-shows across ALL industries. Do we want a resume contest winner or a GOAT game? One DOES NOT equal the other. Now to the point of this thread...

Everyone. I repeat everyone. The trade system is looming.. Lets THEORETICALLY..

Use it.

Improve it.

Break it.

Exploit it.

Optimize it.

     Lets run down the myriad of possible rabbitholes pre launch. I'm SURE theres more because I've held some back and haven't got around to responding to others. Basically lets strike while the iron is hot w our "what ifs" & "wish lists" REGARDING TRADE.

Ty

Later y'all

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11 hours ago, Chucksteak said:

Because I'm a fucking pirate, I don't pay fucking taxes.

If I owned an island, why would I even bother attacking your island/islands. I would have 1 already and likely spend my time with defense and upkeep of it. NOT ON THE SEA MIND YOU.

What? You are boring. Sorry, there is so many things I could say to you, but you are just boring.

11 hours ago, Chucksteak said:

The devs talk out one side of their mouth and say they want to drive people to the sea. Then from  the other side they say here, you can OWN an island and defend it. We will even let it be untouchable most of the day, and let you choose when that is. These dumb asses could have just left the original claim flag in place and put hard limits on flags per person/company for all the trouble they've caused trying to make this island ownership work. Better yet, like I said, make every island lawless because lawless actually works. Problem solved.

You probably shouldnt own an island.

11 hours ago, Chucksteak said:

What games have you made or worked on? If your gunna apply in an open forum, at least post your resume.

I dont know where that quote went to, I can't see it in this thread, but I was making fun of some certain person. Did you think I was being serious? If so, that is sad but not surprising.

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Obviously the structure and coding is evolving...

Feedback, bugs, exploits etc not already known?

Sending devs a report..?

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