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PeglegTheAngry

Reward Seeking Behaviour vs Enjoying the Game. (This means you PvErs)

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Hey dudes and dudettes and those of previously unspecified genders; I need your ears for a moment.


I've noticed a pretty sad trend among some of the player base, especially those who play PvE. I'm putting this thread out there, because some of you don't actually seem to be playing the game for the sake of well, playing. Since the addition of farmhouses I have heard a clatter of "this is the end of PvE, oh woe is me" and "breeding is dead how will I make money!" I just gotta know... where does that all come from?


What stops you from breeding with farm/ware houses? On that note, aren't bears, tigers, and lions still needed for maps/powerstones?

What is stopping you from manually farming? (which is faster than farmhouses!)


I feel like playing a game should be it's own reward; so if you don't enjoy Atlas activities for the sake of them; why do you do it?

 Reward seeking from a videogame like Atlas misses the point. You should be playing for the sake of playing.

 

Edited by PeglegTheAngry
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On that note, aren't bears, tigers, and lions still needed for maps/powerstones?

I guess that's because no one does that. Before farmhouses most of players were building their grand palaces, and without Giraffe, Elephant and Bear - it was really difficult to build their 1 000 000 pieces "base". That's why every1 were taming, breeding, and selling tames to each other, so they would be able to build.

And now - farmhouses do what bear/elephant/giraffe does. So no one wanna buy tames anymore 😆

And... well, you saying some maps, powerstones? Who ever does that!? Like 30 players from whole official PVE? 😆

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People can still use the animals to get resources yes but they are not needed. If you do use animals still it won't be long until until it creeps into your head saying why am I doing this, everyone else isn't.

PvE needs more content more than ever if they are going down this automation route. In PvP it is not so bad as you are hunting other players but PvE it just gives you less to do.

They said they are breaking away PvE into something else, we still haven't heard what that is. It wouldn't surprise me if PvE is merged with PvP next season

I've seen very little content over the years. How hard is it to put quite alot of cosmetics in the game like weapons and clothing. To me it seems like they struggle to understand coding.

If they are struggling on the game engine then I would much prefer them to start on another but they won't do that will they, not when they find it convenient to transfer code from Ark.

When released they wanted 40k players playing, first day was madness lots of players everywhere now lucky to see any. The game could have had more than 40k players had they done things right and not pissed everyone off but that would require good devs which this game doesn't have.

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Wouldnt suprise me for a second if this is the last season. The entire game has changed over 540 degrees in the last year, devteams use these new feats as a prestigeproject and all known bugs since release are not even close by being fixed.

The difference between PvE and PvP is, well, none. 

Balance is completely lost as well and players running away very fast now they know all they worked for will be gone in a few months. 

If the new devteam (or the layers above that paygrade) really wanted to make a difference and stand out above the previous team(s), they shouldve bring weekly patches to show they are fixing all known (or at least TRY!!) bugs.

I'm loving alot of aspects, but it's crazy to work around some bugs and still try to have fun.

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@George Catcher

We are still selling giraffes and eles like hotcakes. Bears have slowed a little but thats bc it seems everyone is doing thier own breeding.

There also seems to be a ton of folks doing maps (where else do people get massive amounts of gold?)

As to my 1000000 peice base... wouldnt need that if I had a some bigger peices (ie 2x2, single tile or a 3x3 single tile..) or a premade dock (slighty bigger than a large shipyard, that can snap ceilings to..).. a dock setup along would remove 300-500 pieces...

 

@Cpt.Yarrr

I dont think weve gone 540 degrees yet... the farmhouse is nice and all, but when you want that galley your either waiting a few days or out there farming up mats... Even from an early game meta, the only thing changed thus far would be a rush to fsrmhouse instead of a rush to tame.

I really dont think thats a bad move... eventually youll still get an ele and giraffe or two, its just a lower priority.

Honestly i think the ship changes (whenever they come) will be the indication if they are going the right or wrong direction.

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17 hours ago, PeglegTheAngry said:

What is stopping you from manually farming? (which is faster than farmhouses!)

This zombie idea needs to die a quick death.  Farmhouses are by definition "automatic farming".  If you don't know the difference between the terms "manually farming" and "automatic farming", you have bigger problems than griping about the griping.

Speaking of griping:

Quote

I'm putting this thread out there, because some of you don't actually seem to be playing the game for the sake of well, playing.

I don't even know what to say to this.  No one gives a damned about YOUR idea of "well, playing", because as usual, it doesn't include the things you don't consider "well, playing".  Many, many other players might have a different idea of what "well, playing" is, within the parameters of any given game.  Take building.  MANY MANY MANY MANY players who buy a game with building, consider building "well, playing", and prefer to do nothing but building.  That doesn't mean they are wrong to consider building "well, playing".

Edited by Bugboy
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@Gindorf, don't get me wrong. I love those.

But dont you agree that fixing "day 1" bugs after almost 2 years has a bit more priority then adding a farmhouse? Or even try to fix bugs on a weekly base? 

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You have to play the game being made.   I tried to single player using one rock harvesting rate. no respawning and not using beasts.   Then reality set in that shipbuilding assumes you are using a beast for harvesting.   Yes you could do it manually even with the full survival tree boost, but it would take weeks to make a ship but only seconds for the red galleon lurking in freeport to destroy you.   Not fun after the Nth time when you realize you emptied your island and you realize that you cannot even make a damn raft to get to another island even if it could sneak past the damned.   The game was balanced for multi-stone fast renewable harvesting.   There is a fun survival game in there, you just cannot reach it - instead you go play the game actually called RAFT that got that balance right.

Yes you could make a ship without the louvre armor cladding, but then the red galleon destroys you in seconds.   This is because SOTD are optimized for the mythical ships that exist only in PVP metacorps.

Yes you could try to fight the damned for their treasure.  But bow was nerfed because of ranged guns on ships kiting them to shore.   And the supersize skellies was optimized for the high level bear so you  get destroyed in seconds if you attempt to go pirate vs. pirate.  And the overburdened treasure chest can only be bear cargoed out.

So why play with windmills and warehouses in PVE?  Because the rest of the damn game will assume you used them and will be balanced accordingly.  To do otherwise is tilting at windmills.  We already know this because they already optimized for beast hauling/farming over manual hauling/farming - they will of course optimize the game assuming you have windmills/warehouse.  

The grind is only fun when there is a reward, if the reward is unattainable with the grind then it is no longer fun.

 

Edited by krazmuze
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4 hours ago, Gindorf said:

@George Catcher

We are still selling giraffes and eles like hotcakes. Bears have slowed a little but thats bc it seems everyone is doing thier own breeding.

There also seems to be a ton of folks doing maps (where else do people get massive amounts of gold?)

As to my 1000000 peice base... wouldnt need that if I had a some bigger peices (ie 2x2, single tile or a 3x3 single tile..) or a premade dock (slighty bigger than a large shipyard, that can snap ceilings to..).. a dock setup along would remove 300-500 pieces...

 

@Cpt.Yarrr

I dont think weve gone 540 degrees yet... the farmhouse is nice and all, but when you want that galley your either waiting a few days or out there farming up mats... Even from an early game meta, the only thing changed thus far would be a rush to fsrmhouse instead of a rush to tame.

I really dont think thats a bad move... eventually youll still get an ele and giraffe or two, its just a lower priority.

Honestly i think the ship changes (whenever they come) will be the indication if they are going the right or wrong direction.

Surprised at you selling alot of elephants and giraffes, I'd be interested to see if this continues with the autocollect through warehouses. Personally I buy any bears I need, there is no way I will sit there for 4 hours hand feeding a bear berries, just not for me I'm afraid.

People also get the gold just by doing wrecks, that's how I have the gold so far, not done 1 map yet, just not interested enough. Found a few high level wrecks to get me well over 1000 gold. By the time I got to a destination I had about 7000 gold.

As for building on shipyards I know this is possible with the small shipyard because my friend used to put 2 small ones together and build his base on it but not sure if you can snap them to a large shipyard.

Once next Tuesday comes I will be well into Microsoft Flight Sim anyway, so Atlas will see even less of my time now than it has. I think they only way I will enjoy it more is giving it a very long break until dare I say it, they add more content. 

Edited by DannyUK

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We are still selling giraffes and eles like hotcakes. Bears have slowed a little but thats bc it seems everyone is doing thier own breeding.

I've been thinking lately. Are those elies THAT valuable? I mean in past time I had one (he was lvl 19 after tame and got to lvl 49). What I remember:

- He was slow.

- He had lack of stamina and after every 3 trees I had to stop and wait till stamina regens. And it regen slowly. 

- He carried around 1100 kg of stuff.

So I had to slowly go to the forest far away. I had to do a lot of stops. And while I was building my brig I had to go to the forest for like 3-4 times.

Yet right now I have my horse with cargo harness. She extremely fast and get myself to any forest in just no time. With harness she can carry around 6 tons of stuff. With gathering buff I get around 250-300 wood from each tree. So... I really don't know, what will be faster. To go to the far forest and back by elie for 3-4 times. Or just go once by a horse but gather wood by hatchet? 

I will be well into Microsoft Flight Sim anyway

Hobby buddy! 🤝 🛫

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6 hours ago, DannyUK said:

I think they only way I will enjoy it more is giving it a very long break until dare I say it, they add more content. 

The reason I started this season. So sad to see nothing really being fixed, old bugs still arent squashed. 

This game.

So much potential, buried even deeper then the highest map wich is nowhere to be reached.

Sad.

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It's sad that you PVE players have to discuss this all yourself because all PvP Players hide their game knowledge to gain advantages to others. You only learn the game mechanics if you play PvP.

Ships:(for example a brig)

Yes it's nice to watch this PVE brigantine build videos with 10-15 rear canons and turtle design. But you know it... in PvP nobody builds that ship style. Every PvP Player will build a common brig with 3-4 rear canons. Maybe he uses common BPs or adds some blue canons with 140-150% damage as this does not cost much. The ship build meta is based on low weight. You have to reduce every possible weight to stay faster than your enemy. On PVE you skill your ships like +5000kg weight and +15 crew and maybe some resistance. On PvP you just skill as little crew as possible and than you go on damage and resistance. Think about you start a ship with 150% canons and skill it to 200% damage which increases the basic canon damage to total 300%. Now you need less cannonballs for SOTD lvl 60 gally. But remember i said on PvP you start with common BPs. So you invest 2-3 days in leveling your ship to max(52) and then you change it to the PvP fighting build. Maybe on PvE you should try this too. A ship skilled to fight and be fast. If you improve your kite skills you will not lose any planks. Try to figure out how to build a brig with only 4-5000kg weight. It's possible and you have ammunition and repairs on board. Also to lvl 25-30 you can level easy with low level SOTD before going golden age. Also you should think about <<handling>> sails. At least on EU servers it's the meta… only US servers have all this videos with speed sails...

Also on PVE why not build a blue ship with like 8000 HP planks? It costs less but is way enough for SOTD kiting. Guess what? On PvP you will not see any green or blue ship. It's wasted resources compared with legendary or mystical.

Regarding the elephants you should get a lvl 25+ ele to 1200-1300 stamina and ~4000kg. The big issue of the elephant is the slow stamina recovery rate. Maybe you think about 2-3 weight crago bears (3-4k weight) set to follow the elephant. Or you build a ship box where you are farming and when you have like ~120k wood you can drop it and carry it yourself to the base(up to 300 stacks). Make 414 discovery points and you move faster. If you killed yeti you can use harvest boost. Use a crow and skill intelligence and you can reduce the cooldown. If you wonder how teams move encumbered players fast in the first days? One hits the other with spyglass to push him forward with 0 damage. You could also use your attack 3 or 4(mouse wheel scroll down) if you are solo. Only on very long ways to the farming spot you could be faster with tames.

bears still best for fiber harvesting.

Giraffe still very good for thatch

Elephant still worse for wood(but to much stamina nerf)

Rhino still great for stone

metal always harvest by hand.

 

Or now take it from the farmhouse…. and again 414 disc points is your friend…. more than the tames the more farms you have.

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So you invest 2-3 days in leveling your ship to max(52)

If you have 220% Mythic Shipyard for that... This season I dug around 70 maps. All of them were 12+. Half of them were 15+. Some of them were 20+. And I've got NO SHIPYARD. I mean not a single one. Not even common one. I'm saying about small/large ones. I've got like 20 tiny ones all qualities, and around 10 mythic tiny ones.

Same with the sails, btw. In like 150 damned ships I sunk down this season (most of them were schooners and brigs lvl-50+ and Galleys lvl-30+) I've got a single common large speed sail bp. Just ONE!

Edited by George Catcher

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1 hour ago, Nacona said:

It's sad that you PVE players have to discuss this all yourself because all PvP Players hide their game knowledge to gain advantages to others. You only learn the game mechanics if you play PvP.

Ships:(for example a brig)

Yes it's nice to watch this PVE brigantine build videos with 10-15 rear canons and turtle design. But you know it... in PvP nobody builds that ship style. Every PvP Player will build a common brig with 3-4 rear canons. Maybe he uses common BPs or adds some blue canons with 140-150% damage as this does not cost much. The ship build meta is based on low weight. You have to reduce every possible weight to stay faster than your enemy. On PVE you skill your ships like +5000kg weight and +15 crew and maybe some resistance. On PvP you just skill as little crew as possible and than you go on damage and resistance. Think about you start a ship with 150% canons and skill it to 200% damage which increases the basic canon damage to total 300%. Now you need less cannonballs for SOTD lvl 60 gally. But remember i said on PvP you start with common BPs. So you invest 2-3 days in leveling your ship to max(52) and then you change it to the PvP fighting build. Maybe on PvE you should try this too. A ship skilled to fight and be fast. If you improve your kite skills you will not lose any planks. Try to figure out how to build a brig with only 4-5000kg weight. It's possible and you have ammunition and repairs on board. Also to lvl 25-30 you can level easy with low level SOTD before going golden age. Also you should think about <<handling>> sails. At least on EU servers it's the meta… only US servers have all this videos with speed sails...

Also on PVE why not build a blue ship with like 8000 HP planks? It costs less but is way enough for SOTD kiting. Guess what? On PvP you will not see any green or blue ship. It's wasted resources compared with legendary or mystical.

Regarding the elephants you should get a lvl 25+ ele to 1200-1300 stamina and ~4000kg. The big issue of the elephant is the slow stamina recovery rate. Maybe you think about 2-3 weight crago bears (3-4k weight) set to follow the elephant. Or you build a ship box where you are farming and when you have like ~120k wood you can drop it and carry it yourself to the base(up to 300 stacks). Make 414 discovery points and you move faster. If you killed yeti you can use harvest boost. Use a crow and skill intelligence and you can reduce the cooldown. If you wonder how teams move encumbered players fast in the first days? One hits the other with spyglass to push him forward with 0 damage. You could also use your attack 3 or 4(mouse wheel scroll down) if you are solo. Only on very long ways to the farming spot you could be faster with tames.

bears still best for fiber harvesting.

Giraffe still very good for thatch

Elephant still worse for wood(but to much stamina nerf)

Rhino still great for stone

metal always harvest by hand.

 

Or now take it from the farmhouse…. and again 414 disc points is your friend…. more than the tames the more farms you have.

Thanks god, now we PVE bobs are enlightened, much appreciated.

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2 hours ago, Nacona said:

It's sad that you PVE players have to discuss this all yourself because all PvP Players hide their game knowledge to gain advantages to others. You only learn the game mechanics if you play PvP.

Ships:(for example a brig)

Yes it's nice to watch this PVE brigantine build videos with 10-15 rear canons and turtle design. But you know it... in PvP nobody builds that ship style. Every PvP Player will build a common brig with 3-4 rear canons. Maybe he uses common BPs or adds some blue canons with 140-150% damage as this does not cost much. The ship build meta is based on low weight. You have to reduce every possible weight to stay faster than your enemy. On PVE you skill your ships like +5000kg weight and +15 crew and maybe some resistance. On PvP you just skill as little crew as possible and than you go on damage and resistance. Think about you start a ship with 150% canons and skill it to 200% damage which increases the basic canon damage to total 300%. Now you need less cannonballs for SOTD lvl 60 gally. But remember i said on PvP you start with common BPs. So you invest 2-3 days in leveling your ship to max(52) and then you change it to the PvP fighting build. Maybe on PvE you should try this too. A ship skilled to fight and be fast. If you improve your kite skills you will not lose any planks. Try to figure out how to build a brig with only 4-5000kg weight. 

Also on PVE why not build a blue ship with like 8000 HP planks? It costs less but is way enough for SOTD kiting. Guess what? On PvP you will not see any green or blue ship. It's wasted resources cohave.

Actually thats exactly how sotd-brigs are built. But Most of us use even less weight, but Most PVErs are Not recording their gameplay to Show how amazing we are. 

But it's allways fun watching Maxlvl 120 PVPers kill naked Lvl 30s and Posting Videos of it to Show the world how amazing they are.

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19 hours ago, Cpt.Yarrr said:

@Gindorf, don't get me wrong. I love those.

But dont you agree that fixing "day 1" bugs after almost 2 years has a bit more priority then adding a farmhouse? Or even try to fix bugs on a weekly base? 

I hate to say this, but other than program breaking bugs, in an alpha you generally are more focused on new features/code base revisions than bugs. Some still get fixed but thats more of a priority in beta once your program is feature complete and the code has mostly stablized.

Dont get me wrong, there are a ton of annoying as fuck bugs that Id love to see squashed, but its not a priority over new features.

18 hours ago, DannyUK said:

there is no way I will sit there for 4 hours hand feeding a bear berries

I dont either. About an hour total until there 4 stacks of potatos and then I move on.

@Nacona

I really hope they kill the assblaster meta in pve. I hate it so much.It is rare to see a armord ship in pve too btw.

With PvE there is more focus on utilities on a ship than with pvp. Its just two different mindsets. Since you really only need 200 resist in pve, it gives us extra lvls to put elsewhere, which lets us not worry so much about weight.

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22 hours ago, Cpt.Yarrr said:

@Gindorf, don't get me wrong. I love those.

But dont you agree that fixing "day 1" bugs after almost 2 years has a bit more priority then adding a farmhouse? Or even try to fix bugs on a weekly base? 

Bugfixing can actually be pretty hard and requires time, talent and a systematic approach.

Useless, stupid features, on the other hand, can be thought up by any blithering idiot.

An imbalance in the mentioned resources that are attainable to your project may result in a bias towards either one or the other being implemented.

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7 hours ago, George Catcher said:

If you have 220% Mythic Shipyard for that... This season I dug around 70 maps. All of them were 12+. Half of them were 15+. Some of them were 20+. And I've got NO SHIPYARD. I mean not a single one. Not even common one. I'm saying about small/large ones. I've got like 20 tiny ones all qualities, and around 10 mythic tiny ones.

Same with the sails, btw. In like 150 damned ships I sunk down this season (most of them were schooners and brigs lvl-50+ and Galleys lvl-30+) I've got a single common large speed sail bp. Just ONE!

Yeah they left out the part of PVP where you use every dupe possible to make sure everyone has mythic everything, then you level up using every XPloit possible.  In PVE using exploits is just cheating yourself, you are not competing against anyone and if you rush to level there is no endgame you quit playing.

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17 hours ago, user1 said:

Bugfixing can actually be pretty hard and requires time, talent and a systematic approach.

Useless, stupid features, on the other hand, can be thought up by any blithering idiot.

 

These 2 sentences, you dropped the hammer spot on the nail.

How long does a gamingcompany need to get their poo on the road nowadays? 

It took ARK almost 5 years, so perhaps we get lucky in 3. 😂

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"Reward seeking behavior"?  It's a game bruh.  Nearly everything you do in the game is tied to a reward.  If you don't like it go do something else.  Who says you can't enjoy the game and be rewarded by it?  Why do the two have to be separate?

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The Atlas game since the beginning was in: "So many efforts - so little reward" state. It's like that:

- I go to high level treasure map, lvl-82 angry guy with a hammer spawned. He hit me and kill me by just one shot.

- For next month, I was gathering gold and resources, I was searching and buying some mythic armor blueprints, I spent whole week just hunting mythos, to craft and update my armor.

- Fully in cyan, I go to this high level treasure map again. Lvl-82 angry guy with a hammer spawned again. He hit me and kill me by just one shot.

---

So why did I spent month of my life? To enjoy just cyan text on my armor icon instead of grey? Maybe I'm wrong here at least a little bit, but I think that's a bit poor reward, after all hours I spent and dangers if faced...

And most part of the game - like that.

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That makes no sense at all to me.  

 

That's like complaining you took a raft to do the Kraken and lost.  You then decided to build a sloop with a single cannon and still lost and complain you do not get a reward for it.  

 

Logic does not compute.  

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That's like complaining you took a raft to do the Kraken and lost.  You then decided to build a sloop with a single cannon and still lost and complain you do not get a reward for it.  

So you compare common armor with a raft and mythic armor with a single cannon sloop? So... what will be a schooner, brig and galley then?

The point is - you can create so far the best armor in the game. You'll spend like a MONTH to do that. And another month to level it. You played alot of MMOs before and all your experience tells you - best armor help you survive. Then you find - here it doesn't. It doesn't do anything. It the same effective as common one.

It's like you built a raft, go kraken and failed... then you spent 2 month FULL DAY playing and all you got - a single cannon sloop. 

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This sounds like the reverse of the OP.  Crying because you cant reach the reward.  I've never reached the really high levels in this game.  I don't have a single powerstone.  I still enjoy it.  I find ways to make some money.  Interact with the world and EXPLORE all of the corners of it.  I don't just go to a zone near a freeport and gank people and then hide back into the freeport.  As a PvE player that isn't even a concern, and that's how I like it.  

Edited by McDangles

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I think the OP is mixing up farmhouses with breeding,they are a separate worry not together as one.

Breeding was complained about in Ark "by the devs" ,they said it was too much of a strain on servers.

Farmhouses and Warehouses are a form of "automation"that is a direct contradiction to what the OP is claiming as this is making it so you are NOT playing the game,it is playing itself.

So i have to ask,WHERE did the op come up with these ideas and conclusions because they  are not factual.Everything i stated IS factual.

This game was NEVER advertised or sold as a battle Royale on seas.The marketing video gave a vision of what players should expect from this game.The game as released gave gamer's a vision,that vision was Fantasy,WAS PVe and of course also pvp.So don't point fingers at PVE players if they just want to have some FUN with the game and not turn it into a battle Royale on seas.

I am quite sure most know of Dr.D and his sidekick buddy.They were playing SOT and that is also supposed to be a pirate game,they turned it into nothing more than a Battle Royale that ALWAYS ended up as a BR on land.So be careful what you ask for because the writing is on the wall,if you try and diminish this game,turn it into a shallow one dimensional game of BR on seas,you will have RUINED the game.

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