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Pooter

Companies need to die off and factions need to be born

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We have reach a point in this game that is a very important cross roads. We have seen that they think they know what’s best for the game but we can all see the numbers and the frustration of the community. This is an “ark game” and what I mean by that is that it’s a mega alliance game. True the numbers aren’t high enough to truly call anything a mega but they are still there.

 

factions or 2-4 with main cites that are unraidable. Here the pve people will be able to build and craft. The pvp people of that same faction only will be able to come and resupply their war inventory through either gold or trade(most likely gold from the raiding). This is also optimal because they “allege” that they want the game to be more  about sea battles and not inland. Problem solved, you can’t take down the main city so don’t bother trying. Go sail out and take down the pve people when they do have to “risk” going through trade routes or whatever. 
 

don’t get me wrong I am in favor or even the pve people having to worry about pvp sometimes like when sailing but buildings just simply need to be indestructible now. If people just really have to have the risk of owing their base then they can still have an option of living on lawless areas. 
 

not sure why people need to have that risk of losing everything but we can easily accommodate those people by lawless areas all over the map. 
 

factions need to be a thing and main indestructible capitols need to be a thing. If those are implemented then you can actually have a good meld of pve and pvp.

 

i am not worried about if pvp people like the idea or not because they will still always have their pvp regardless. I just want to make sure the pve people can also have what they want without anyone having to sacrifice too much.

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I agree, I think factions make all games like this much better. that's probaly why amazons new world and there upcoming LOTR games both gona be faction games.

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Give it a few weeks and see what the devs say about the upcoming season. I bet something more is to be said about it. 

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Posted (edited)

I'm totally for Factions, the Other way around. 

PVP get 4 Grids with 4 Big Citys where they can have Chaos and Destruction, how they Like IT.

The Rest of the Map is for Farming and PVE-Content, PVP disabled.

PVPers can go there If they want to Farm or Trade with PVEers.

This way everyone can have what He wants without having to sacrifice to much.

Edited by Luck0r
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For the time beeing they could also leave the current PvP and PvE servers as they are and introduce a third PvE/PvP server.

I think factions would benefit any scenario but even without them a PvE/PvP server could basically just be a PvE server with company/clan wars. Where there is only PvP between two companies that are at war.
One needs to buy an item to declare the war then there is a 48h warning for the defenders so they can prepare as well as the attacker and then there are 24h of war.
Those wars should explicitly not be for annihilating a company and make the players stop playing the game but for competition and seeing who is stronger and wins, thus some rules could apply that limit the permanent destruction especially between clans of different strenght. Of course the ususal rules apply like a cooldown phase for the next war and no instant switching of clans or during the war and so on like seen on many other games that got it working.

Of course if they aim higher, there lies a bright future ahead if they do introduce factions and open an RvR (Realm vs Realm) Server as these modes tend to attract high numbers of PvP and PvE players as well as all those that are not limited to one.
You are relatively save when deep within your realms territory and the bordering regions are dangerous war zones. Everyone can play in every way they like but has to contribute to the realm in their function so they dont loose territory against the others. There would be constant PvP as well as PvE and the mode would allow for all possiblities that Atlas can offer to be present and open to any kind of player that exists, that would be the way if they want to achieve something great with this game.

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Posted (edited)

Invulnerable pillar bases pretty much killed off what was left of pvp in season 3, I don't see how unraidable faction bases is gonna make that any better. There is very little besides attacking someone’s base that will actually generate a fight.

Making your own base and fighting for its survival is what makes pvp in this game interesting, if you remove that layer from the game you are just stuck with unbalanced pvp weapons, cheese tactics and crap gameplay.

It’s basically like taking the market and weapon customization out of Escape from Tarkov and what you are left with is just a terrible fps game.

Edited by Pant

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2 hours ago, Pant said:

Invulnerable pillar bases pretty much killed off what was left of pvp in season 3, I don't see how unraidable faction bases is gonna make that any better. There is very little besides attacking someone’s base that will actually generate a fight.

Making your own base and fighting for its survival is what makes pvp in this game interesting, if you remove that layer from the game you are just stuck with unbalanced pvp weapons, cheese tactics and crap gameplay.

It’s basically like taking the market and weapon customization out of Escape from Tarkov and what you are left with is just a terrible fps game.

Oh they definitely need to make a lot of changes but leaving it the way it is isn’t going to do any good. I am talking about main city areas being invulnerable. If you build outside of the city or on lawless you will get raided. That way people can decide for themselves. Plenty of risk out there to have if that’s what they want. Not everyone wants that.

4 hours ago, Linea said:

For the time beeing they could also leave the current PvP and PvE servers as they are and introduce a third PvE/PvP server.

I think factions would benefit any scenario but even without them a PvE/PvP server could basically just be a PvE server with company/clan wars. Where there is only PvP between two companies that are at war.
One needs to buy an item to declare the war then there is a 48h warning for the defenders so they can prepare as well as the attacker and then there are 24h of war.
Those wars should explicitly not be for annihilating a company and make the players stop playing the game but for competition and seeing who is stronger and wins, thus some rules could apply that limit the permanent destruction especially between clans of different strenght. Of course the ususal rules apply like a cooldown phase for the next war and no instant switching of clans or during the war and so on like seen on many other games that got it working.

Of course if they aim higher, there lies a bright future ahead if they do introduce factions and open an RvR (Realm vs Realm) Server as these modes tend to attract high numbers of PvP and PvE players as well as all those that are not limited to one.
You are relatively save when deep within your realms territory and the bordering regions are dangerous war zones. Everyone can play in every way they like but has to contribute to the realm in their function so they dont loose territory against the others. There would be constant PvP as well as PvE and the mode would allow for all possiblities that Atlas can offer to be present and open to any kind of player that exists, that would be the way if they want to achieve something great with this game.

A realm vs realm would actually be nice. That would easily keep everyone on the same realm getting along whether or not they are in a big or small company in that realm. I definitely like this idea.

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Companies can exist within  faction! As an individual, you would have your own faction...once you join a company you are absorbed into said company and are of the overall faction the company is. If you leave you take the Faction standing with you and must through action, work to change the faction standing to the way you wish. If you turncoat to the opposite side you can only do so every 100 days, then you would automatically turn your faction to the other side. factions, if sone right can be HUGE. You can have part of the map that are NPC and player controlled at the same time  that can be flipped to another faction through action of combat, defense and questing. Faction standing would be like the old EQ Amiable indifferent, dubiously and Kill on sight.  Defeating the opposite factions would gin you favor as an individual or your company favor as a collective.
Insiding would be a thing. Spying... selling of information and trading of goods. Trading of goods could have positive effects between factions by instituting a trade system that keeps track of whom traded with whom and the value of the trade. 

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Right now, the game has ZERO focus and ZERO long term objectives or goals. That's the true problem with Atlas. There's only so many times I can restart and work up to Mythic quality ships and items before I say been there done that, got the hat. I've played through all the achievements (except for that damned squid and ghost ship which have now eluded me twice!) 3 times now and I'm not interested in doing ANY of that again. There's only so many times I can stand on top of a cliff and solo the hydra using grenades and a high level carbine for a key fragment Grapeshot!

I think factions, implemented correctly, would be fun and give some point and group focus/objective to the game. This would also allow new players a chance to jump into the game without getting steamrolled if the focus is to be PvP.

There's no reason you can't include PvE and PvP in the same game, many games have done this successfully. Create 3-4 factions with neutral areas in between the starting areas that have the high value resources and objectives. Can have trade areas within those zones that can be fought over for control and the faction that owns them gets a port area with trade items and quests. AQuests could include killing the Hydra or Drake. Killing off the AoD creatures or ships, etc. After 24 hours of control, it can become contested and the fight begins again. Huzzah! 

Golden Age runes in the middle not controlled that is a free for all so you can even fight your own faction if you want. How fun to have a Company day where we go kill eachother and trap one another in cages!  

Possible factions include Pirates, Colonials, Privateers, etc

Pirate faction may have quests to loot merchant ships, find gold, or prized gems. Colonial faction could have factions for defeating pirate factions or building resources. Privateer quests could include shipping or smuggling goods, hunting high profile targets or creatures, etc. 

Look at DaOC. A great longstanding 3 faction PvP game that was very successful and fun as hell. If someone could take that game and modernize it it would smash all the current PvP games to bits. 

There are so many things you can do with factions in a PvP pirate sailing game. Shit, I should just use the basic setup of Atlas and make my own game. 🙂

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Posted (edited)

Oh yeah, they already have a way to control faction strength. It's called the Army of the Damned. The 4th faction that is NPC that comes in and roflstomps the biggest faction so they have to focus on protecting themselves more than going out and going all MEGACLAN on the other factions. The other factions could even then get quests to help extinguish the threat for high value rewards and control of neutral areas.  

AKA British Navy and Pirates against East India trading company and Davy Jones in Pirates of the Caribbean. 

SO MANY THINGS THEY COULD DO IF THEY JUST HAD VISION.

Edited by Sydhart
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best would be a tri faction system with capture points giving the dominant faction a bonus of some sort, this way the 2 weaker factions ally to over throw the dominant faction, then fight among themselves to become the new dominant faction, this is rinse and repeat, because no one faction can stay dominant for a long period of time.

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12 hours ago, Sykotech said:

the games too complicated to get everything right & perfect

this is FAR fom right & perfect, and i mean FAR!!

7 hours ago, Remo said:

best would be a tri faction system with capture points giving the dominant faction a bonus of some sort, this way the 2 weaker factions ally to over throw the dominant faction, then fight among themselves to become the new dominant faction, this is rinse and repeat, because no one faction can stay dominant for a long period of time.

If they are gonna keep megas they certainly have to come up with some idea to incite conflict between them

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Inciting conflict between megas/factions is not enough.

Any group of players MUST WIN some of those conflicts, as well as the same group MUST LOSE some.

If any group of players is allowed to maintain a K/D of above 1.0, there is a problem, because in the long run they would become unstoppable.

There has to be some kind of diminishing returns or cumulative upkeep or a catch up mechanism so the most successful group gets a handicap.

Whoever is 1st at any time should find it harder and harder to maintain that position the longer they can hold it, regardless of player count or ability.

Nobody is going to play the game when they can't avoid being victimized.

I can imagine it would be hard to find a way to incentivize players to fight for the #1 spot, so there must be rewards to make it worthwhile.

The problem here is that this reward must not give any benefit that would help in any way to hold that #1 spot.

Idk if cosmetics and a high score list of some sort would be enough.

But then again, i am (thankfully) not being paid to bring some sense into this mess.

Edited by user1

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10 hours ago, The D Legacy said:

If they are gonna keep megas they certainly have to come up with some idea to incite conflict between them

as someone who was/is in a mega I can tell you that our main enemies were always other megas, everyone else is just too easy

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3 hours ago, Sykotech said:

as someone who was/is in a mega I can tell you that our main enemies were always other megas, everyone else is just too easy

in wich case you probably dont mind the game inciting condlict among megas even further, right?

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4 hours ago, The D Legacy said:

in wich case you probably dont mind the game inciting condlict among megas even further, right?

if it means more action bring it on but I'm saying they dont really have to because megas are the only competition of megas

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Megas fighting megas for "competition" is ok.

Megas bashing small folks for "fun"/being a dick/because they can is not.

There should be a strong incentive for megas to stay the fuck away from smaller groups.

Megas should obviously win their fights against smaller groups, but they should have ample reason not to engage them in the 1st place.

Fighting against much weaker groups should always come at a hefty cost.

Make them pay upkeep for their logistics if they really need to project their force at some smaller group's home, for example.

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5 minutes ago, user1 said:

Megas fighting megas for "competition" is ok.

Megas bashing small folks for "fun"/being a dick/because they can is not.

There should be a strong incentive for megas to stay the fuck away from smaller groups.

Megas should obviously win their fights against smaller groups, but they should have ample reason not to engage them in the 1st place.

Fighting against much weaker groups should always come at a hefty cost.

Make them pay upkeep for their logistics if they really need to project their force at some smaller group's home, for example.

yeah maybe some sort of system that punishes big groups attacking small groups and rewards them for attacking same size or bigger groups

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I don't know why they force people into joining megas because that's the only way to survive in PvP but they usually get you to farm resources all day, not my idea of fun as I like to do my own thing.

Trouble with being solo on PvP is as people have said they just come and destroy you just because they can, which is why I've always stuck to PvE.

If they changed it to factions or something along those lines I will be happy to play PvP, that way you can do what you want when you want and also help same faction in a fight, not having to be forced into it. 3 or 4 factions fighting for areas of the map would be ideal, you set up in the location and you having to defend that location that way the video they created on launch would become reality as ships would come into shore in their numbers and everyone on island attacks back. Wishful thinking though.

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Well as i said there is a proven solution that can be found in many games especially of the era when pvp mmos dominated the gaming market before developers divided them into either pvp and pve to save money and then were puzzled why noone played.

There should only be pvp active between companies that are at war. You can declare war on any company at any time but you need to buy an item and there is a 48h warning period followed by a 24h war time. This gives both companies time to prepare for the war and bring their players online during the war window. It also does stop griefing completly.
There could also be unrestricted pvp zones in the center of the map mixed with this or the war system could cover the whole map as it is more competitive.

It does solve all the mentioned problems and any player can play under these rules.
There is no griefing and offline raiding.
PvP is forced by fighting for control in bigger battles rather than griefing matches that see little player contact.
Bigger companies would attack other big companies as it would be a waste of time to attack small companies that do them no harm just because they are sailing by someones base.
One Companie cannot get dominant as they cannot subdue an Unlimited amount of other companies.
With different companies controlling the rare ressource spawns trading would really kick off now.

I would go with either
PvP restricted to company wars and unrestricted pvp in the center of the map
Or factions that divide the map into npc founded realms that fight each other under a competitive ruleset

If they stay with unrestricted pvp and megas the game will be unable to aquire new players and only loose players. The game has already lost a massive amount of players that didnt like 100%pvp and 100%pve that was offered.

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5 hours ago, Linea said:

Well as i said there is a proven solution that can be found in many games especially of the era when pvp mmos dominated the gaming market before developers divided them into either pvp and pve to save money and then were puzzled why noone played.

There should only be pvp active between companies that are at war. You can declare war on any company at any time but you need to buy an item and there is a 48h warning period followed by a 24h war time. This gives both companies time to prepare for the war and bring their players online during the war window. It also does stop griefing completly.
There could also be unrestricted pvp zones in the center of the map mixed with this or the war system could cover the whole map as it is more competitive.

It does solve all the mentioned problems and any player can play under these rules.
There is no griefing and offline raiding.
PvP is forced by fighting for control in bigger battles rather than griefing matches that see little player contact.
Bigger companies would attack other big companies as it would be a waste of time to attack small companies that do them no harm just because they are sailing by someones base.
One Companie cannot get dominant as they cannot subdue an Unlimited amount of other companies.
With different companies controlling the rare ressource spawns trading would really kick off now.

I would go with either
PvP restricted to company wars and unrestricted pvp in the center of the map
Or factions that divide the map into npc founded realms that fight each other under a competitive ruleset

If they stay with unrestricted pvp and megas the game will be unable to aquire new players and only loose players. The game has already lost a massive amount of players that didnt like 100%pvp and 100%pve that was offered.

i think thats exactly how they plan to do it in "new world" groups have to actually agrre to the encounter and set a date, not sure if i like the idea but considering the lack of engagement coming from players against other megas i guess is better than nothing, once again players would engage more if the game was designed differently.

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1 hour ago, The D Legacy said:

i think thats exactly how they plan to do it in "new world" groups have to actually agrre to the encounter and set a date, not sure if i like the idea but considering the lack of engagement coming from players against other megas i guess is better than nothing, once again players would engage more if the game was designed differently.

Well foundation wiping is the main reason for people not wanting to engage. That is why small to medium companies don’t want to fight large to mega sized companies. 
 

A base shouldn’t be able to be wiped. The pvp should stay on the water where it belongs and then have ships be able to be destroyed in pvp. I will never agree that bases should be raided. That is an ark mechanic, but atlas will definitely fail of base wiping is still a thing. 
 

so ships/tames/crew all destructible. As well as the players themselves and their bodies can be raided.

bases? Nope indestructible.

being able to bounce back by keeping your base will allow you to build another ship without starting at the very beginning again. I mean hell of you lose your tames that is already a set back but if you don’t even have a set of tools or any benches a lot of times people just say screw this game. I really don’t care if people like raiding bases or not, it just shouldn’t be a thing.

if people can build ships again it would keep the pvp going on the water at a much greater frequency. Base raiding just needs to be a forgotten thing.

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5 hours ago, Pooter said:

Well foundation wiping is the main reason for people not wanting to engage. That is why small to medium companies don’t want to fight large to mega sized companies. 
 

A base shouldn’t be able to be wiped. The pvp should stay on the water where it belongs and then have ships be able to be destroyed in pvp. I will never agree that bases should be raided. That is an ark mechanic, but atlas will definitely fail of base wiping is still a thing. 
 

so ships/tames/crew all destructible. As well as the players themselves and their bodies can be raided.

bases? Nope indestructible.

being able to bounce back by keeping your base will allow you to build another ship without starting at the very beginning again. I mean hell of you lose your tames that is already a set back but if you don’t even have a set of tools or any benches a lot of times people just say screw this game. I really don’t care if people like raiding bases or not, it just shouldn’t be a thing.

if people can build ships again it would keep the pvp going on the water at a much greater frequency. Base raiding just needs to be a forgotten thing.

I dont know if that will turn out as intended.
Foundation wiping does happen way less frequent than loosing your ship. Having to rebuild your ship whenever you do something fun in the game is a big problem. If bases are indestructible and ships are not, the sea will be even more empty than it is now. Even on the sea it is the same and it is hard to find an even fight, one side is always outgunned or outnumbered.

I think a combination of rules could make the game open to an increasing playernumber again.
For example, containers cannot be destroyed and you cannot drop stuff to the ground while inside another players base area. So you cannot destroy all their stuff by dropping it to the ground you need to actually move it and transport it. So you are more likely to only take what you would need. Walls cannot be destroyed they are just breached so you can pass tiles with zero health but it is more easy to rebuild.
And ships shouldnt sink so easily, planks only getting damaged and not deleted at zero health and ships are more likely to stay afloat as a wreck that you can repair again. If hit below water line they can sink but you can dive down and lift them to be able to repair.

After all the amount of real pvp is dependend on the cooldown which is the time needed to rebuild and the motivation to do so.

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@Pooter @Linea i think both of you are correct on this, as i see it your base should be indestructible and your boat while destructible should be sent to your port for repairs after being destroyed (ofc w/e you were carrying should be dropped as an incentive for other people to attack, its a pirate game after all, some form of looting should be present) you could pay for the repairs with resources and gold wich would also give gold some value (right now even venezuela's money has more value than this game's gold).

 

 

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