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SkyKevin

REMOVE NPC'S ON SWIVELS

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On 11/29/2019 at 4:49 PM, Mike L said:

Skykevin, you sound like you've not had to defend a harbor vs geared players yet. 

It's pretty difficult even with deck swivels and one person not putting deck swivels on their ship, will cause the sinking of everyone's ship in the harbor likely. 

They'll glider suit into the sails of ships and start killing all the npcs on the ships first. Then they'll grenade the puckles. Then they'll either bring out a few cannon tames, tame a cannon tame and use alloy from your ships, or just make tons of flame arrows and start sinking everything.

Ohh and I know your going to ask why they cant be killed and stopped, well that lies in gurilla warfare tactics, they can see where the stuff you care about is, you probably wont always know their position however, so it's not as simple as just shoot them. 

I've done both attacking and defending, attacking is usually as easy as, destroy something watch them all scramble for ya, and in the process they'll usually mess up so bad that they'll even destroy their own stuff trying to kill ya. Eg. They'll drive their ship into a harbor wall because they dont have sail npcs. 

It's a much better solution for players to learn to use bows, crossbows, throwing knives, and grenades as opposed to removing npcs on deck swivels. 

And on the topic of boarding ships with deck swivels on open waters, get up in your ships crows nest, spin up your grapple and have your captain ram their ship, get in their sails and you can board without getting touched by swivels. 

I've been fighting large scale battles against some of the top companies from both NA and China against players geared to the teeth. I think you misunderstand that I'm talking about removing npc manned swivels so boats that are out on the water pvping can be boarded. The difference between boarding a boat thats sitting still in a harbour and out on the water moving is completely different.

However, I'll take the assumption your boat is in the harbour. Tell me how someone is going to sink your boat in a harbour defended with puckles and ballista? you mention they'll bring a few cannon tames or use tons of flame arrows.... well deck swivels don't do anything to stop a cannon bear. Flame? That hasn't done more than 10 dmg to a plank since they super nerfed it in season 1!

killing random griefers is a daily occurrence for my company 5-10 guys with journeyman+ gear and cannon bears. They have never sunk a single ship in our harbour with those "guerilla tactics" because the anchor buff makes responding to a grief incredibly difficult. You would have to have complete control of someones harbour to stop them from popping planks back onto a ship that you're trying to slowly cannon down with a tame. We're talking a single galleon plank taking like 50 cannonball shots from a tame and then a few minutes later you walk up and drop a replacement plank down and hit it with a hammer.

I've done both attacking and defending and defending is 10x easier. The advantage you have to being the one in a harbour with puckles and green anchored boats will be no problem whatsoever. We have deck swivels but we don't rely on them to defend the ships. It doesn't really matter if someone gets on your ship and kills the npc's because players have NO WAY of sinking a green anchored boat without the help of some sort of cannon being shot at the boat. Boarding is and should simply be a meta for disabling a ship from the top deck so that your ship can come by and sink it.

players learning to use bows, crossbows and throwing knives? I don't know anyone in any of the top companies that use any of those things because they are literal garbage against a geared player.

Lastly, to your point about how to board someone... If you grapple from the top of your large speed sail onto the top of their large speed sail there is still a distance that your character will fall before you can move up the grapple to the top mast. If you are any lower than the first platform on a large speed sail you will be shot by a npc swivel and die before you can climb up even with ships being side by side. BUT lets say you do end up on the top mast of an enemy ship. You then have to use grenades to kill the deck swivels if you want to take over the ship. You can't do that if the swivels are hidden/covered. A proper build makes even that already difficult meta completely useless.

 

 

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On 11/29/2019 at 5:35 PM, Mike L said:

Also on that note, I'm an experienced player, and yep all 10 armored npcs would die in less than 10 seconds but if they managed to actually melee me once(they wont) I would grapple to the side of your ship jump off, ohh no there goes all your npcs after me into the water. Then I'd be back on the ship and youd have no npcs to defend with.  Also it's not that unlikely that they all jump ship for a fish or a dolphin as well, because pressing "N" changes them all to aggressive. 

If the NPC's can push you off of a ship while its moving grappling to the side of anything less than a galleon would simply delay your boarding effort considering you can't medkit or grenade or regain stamina while grappled.

17 hours ago, Dingiva said:

Thats exactly what this thread is about.
"im teh skilled one in here! the only thing that staahps me from being super1337 is swivooools!"

Imagine ship fight and boarding meta, if every player has to steer AND defend his ship on his own, without any help. He didnt even waste a single thought about that. Of course, the guy on the ship could bring other players to help him. But so does the attacker. Bring more players, kill swivels, profit.

Imagine if players had to defend their ships against other players oooo scary thought. There are ways to even the odds against attackers by using things like windows and doorways or even walls as killboxes and choke points to beat players that outnumber you on a ship. These builds just don't exist right now because the meta is simply to keep a nice big open deck with swivels on either side.

 

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Think you missed the point if you grapple to the side of the ship and jump off, the npcs all jump in the ocean, if the ship is moving there gone, but the player is still grappled and can reboard the ship again. 

A side note as I was saying "red alert" usually ends with all your npcs in the water anyways, as theyll aggro onto any fish or shark in the water and jump ship. (Set their targeting range to low to help with that, although it'll still happen)

LOL you get in the top of the sail, and use bow,crossbow,knives, and yes grenades will also kill npcs off swivels but so will projectile weapons. Kill sail npcs first, then swivels, then when they try and come get you up there, hit them with a spyglass and theyll fall off the ship into the ocean. 

Also who is your company? I can come show you what I mean in your harbor.  Cuz the cannon bear/horse kills all the puckles and ballista lol. Flame arrows just keep npcs from repairing the ship planks. 

I said grenades before I know, but smart puckle setups can actually stop grenades, but a cannon tame outrages all defences even on flat ground. 

Edited by Mike L

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17 hours ago, Mike L said:

Think you missed the point if you grapple to the side of the ship and jump off, the npcs all jump in the ocean, if the ship is moving there gone, but the player is still grappled and can reboard the ship again. 

A side note as I was saying "red alert" usually ends with all your npcs in the water anyways, as theyll aggro onto any fish or shark in the water and jump ship. (Set their targeting range to low to help with that, although it'll still happen)

LOL you get in the top of the sail, and use bow,crossbow,knives, and yes grenades will also kill npcs off swivels but so will projectile weapons. Kill sail npcs first, then swivels, then when they try and come get you up there, hit them with a spyglass and theyll fall off the ship into the ocean. 

Also who is your company? I can come show you what I mean in your harbor.  Cuz the cannon bear/horse kills all the puckles and ballista lol. Flame arrows just keep npcs from repairing the ship planks. 

I said grenades before I know, but smart puckle setups can actually stop grenades, but a cannon tame outrages all defences even on flat ground. 

I think the npc's jumping ship like that is likely considered a 'bug' by all means and isn't the intended use for that mechanic.

Once again, you can't kill swivels on a well-built ship from the top of the sails. There are ways to protect the swivels from any type of bow/crossbow/knives and grenades while still having full coverage of your ship deck.

Sure you can use cannon tames to plank ships and take out puckles, I don't think anyone is arguing otherwise. But the conversation is about an actual ship boarding meta that currently barely exists. If you we're to take npc's off swivels on boats it would only lend to the pirating experience and take away the easymode secure feeling of sailing a ship by yourself.

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Yeah, well agree to disagree, like I said they should and probably will remove the exploit swivels. I dont think they should make them unmanable by npc though.  No ship is un-boardable though even currently. You can even ladder trick swivels. Climb the ladder, but stop before you get to the top and barely climb so that the swivel shoots but doesnt kill you, then run and go sword it down real quick, also it's not always an instant kill, take alcohol plus have equilibrium, and take a pudding with 301 hp, theyll take multiple shots to kill ya. 

Just gotta realize the meta is currently be fast but able to sink them, after this the new meta will be schooners with no cannons, there would never be  a reason to use anything else at all with this change, cannons would have no place on a ship. 

Edited by Mike L

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