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Ralle

15 sec immune after grid change?

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to avoid sotd ripping. there is sometimes horrible lag when new server is loading and Sotd already started figher when i can do anything. 
hit me three times today 😕

15 sec immune after grid change would be ok to load everything and get ready for fight or kit sotd, what do you think?

Edited by Ralle
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39 minutes ago, Ralle said:

to avoid sotd ripping. there is sometimes horrible lag when new server is loading and Sotd already started figher when i can do anything. 
hit me three times today 😕

15 sec immune after grid change would be ok to load everything and get ready for fight or kit sotd, what do you think?

This has become more needed since sotd’s we’re put into squadrons. When it tended to be just one or two, the lag meant you might be down a hit or two by the time you finished crossing. With squadrons there is more risk of coming out of the lag with far more significant damage. Purely for pve I’d say signed.

For pvp I could see how this mechanism could be exploited to create protection from attackers while one engages in damage control while jumping back and forth along zone borders, so not so sure there.

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Completely agree with boomer here, even though i agree that something similar to what you are describing is completely necessary. Maybe  instead of total inmunity, a system where SOTD don't target you during a short period of time when you cross a server.

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6 minutes ago, znasser said:

Completely agree with boomer here, even though i agree that something similar to what you are describing is completely necessary. Maybe  instead of total inmunity, a system where SOTD don't target you during a short period of time when you cross a server.

If technically feasible this sounds like a winner.

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Nope, nope, nope nope, nope.

You guys are all advocating taking sand out of the box because it sounds like it could be a GOOD idea when it's really a BAD idea.

As a dude who has on an unfortunate amount of occasions been at the helm fighting 3-6 TPG/CSTG warships, often solo or in groups, zoning happens, sometimes it's a strategic maneuver baiting enemy ships through a zone where you know your buddies are waiting on the other side, sometimes you can play it to your advantage to escape. An Immunity to protect against a PVE element in a PVP game can and will be abused, it will take away actual strategies and replace them with cheese. 

Ships of the damned are stupid, they have always been bad in all the ways since the game launched, rather than making it worse by putting stupid band aids on the symptom, they should address the actual problem. We gotta take a huge step back and ask ourselves and the Developers, "Why is Gamora?". Because quite frankly they're retarded, how the hell did human critters in this games universe even manage to evolve or invent sailing with these douche bags spawning in random places, why are they even there.

Why are they there, why are they damned, why are there more SoDs than players? And how did human critters learn to successfully travel the seas with these hordes of catch you next tuesdays everywhere.

The Devs didnt think that far, they just needed something to fill the giant bland boring world they created to occupy sailors time in the worst way ever. Buncha green floating sea chihuahuas nipping at ur heels is the worst.

This game needs to take a very serious look at EVE's universe/factions model.

SoDs should be mission/specific zone related encounters not the fucking Pidgy's and Ratatas you encounter every 2-3 steps in Pokeman. The Game needs a Core lawful area that is NPC faction controlled, with light amount of pirates, and the further you get away from the core, the less friendly/neutral NPCs and the more pirates you encounter towards the lawless regions, and beyond those you should have your mythic regions with pirates and Sods.

Instead we have ZERO pirates and ALL OF THE SODS for no reason other than just because.

 

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Okay I'm about 90% in agreement with most of what you said with one exception. The thread exists because someone is having a problem with a specific game mechanic. You're advocating that the mechanic shouldn't exist in it's current form at all, which is a much larger issue than just how to deal with the problem the OP posted about. I'm in agreement with your ideas about changing the game on a fundamental level because I think that would be a better direction for the game to go in. But do you see how that's a much larger thing than just "hey I don't wanna die just because of zoning lag and bad luck?" I say make the suggested change of putting a timer on sotd targeting, which won't affect pvp, and let that relatively simple solution suffice until such time as the major rework of the r'aison d etre of sotd's can be accomplished. Fair enough?

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Right, because putting a band-aid on a symptom of a larger problem, doesnt solve the problem, it just makes new ones.

Is the Core issue the Lag? The Zoning? Or the SotDs presence at the border? It's an amalgamation of all 3, and addressing an symptom of 1 aspect doesnt solve any of the problem by any stretch. It's going to create a whole pile of new ones.

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I think there is a big difference on how some load instantly and some load after a few min or so.

I never had an issue but see how you could if I was on my laptop.

Im all for adding something but dont bork it for everyone, I can just see waiting to get half way to an island before you can fire at something. Pretty much how every other lopsided "fix" gets implemented.

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8 hours ago, Inigo said:

Right, because putting a band-aid on a symptom of a larger problem, doesnt solve the problem, it just makes new ones.

Is the Core issue the Lag? The Zoning? Or the SotDs presence at the border? It's an amalgamation of all 3, and addressing an symptom of 1 aspect doesnt solve any of the problem by any stretch. It's going to create a whole pile of new ones.

No one is arguing that core game design is fine. It obviously needs a lot of work. But do you really think it's going to take much to put in the little bit of code it would take to limit sotd's from targeting players in the meantime while they zone? Also, if you suffer a huge laceration on your arm or leg, do you not want the medics to do anything about it til they get you to a surgeon? Because you know, just putting a bandage on it won't solve the core problem.

Please note that the title of the thread is not “Being attacked by sotd’s after zoning is a core design problem” or “I have a suggestion for how to solve a core design issue.” You’re acting like putting in this simple straightforward fix will somehow make things worse. Can you suggest some way that would be the case?  Can you also make a case for why players should have to deal with this nuisance until some unspecified point in the future when the core game design is reworked to eliminate the need?

Because based on Atlas's history to date, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it probably won't get done by next weekend.

Edited by boomervoncannon

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Some players jump borders for minute, some in 5 seconds. That should point at first place at hardware. If your PC is loading slowly, maybe you should take a look at this first instead of blaming the devs and asking for mechanics change. E.g. try lower graphic settings, low memory mode - there is a room for tweaking. Another frequently met issue is a computer that needs software maintenance. 

Changing game mechanics because someone is having issues because of obviously non-game design origin I find as absurd.

Apart of this, the inability to escape from SotDs points at game-mechanics ignorance. Since they have max speed of 6 knots and their AI is quite simple, it is a piece of cake to loose them even at same speed. Just wiggle your ship left and right and they will start making wider zig-zags than you as they are programmed to follow your ship. 

Apart from this - receiving some cannonballs IS part of the game. Deal with it. Or go play with Barbies.

Edited by DoubleHelix

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Game mechanics is getting shot before you see anything? Getting shot before anything is rendered in, if it's a minute, even if it's 5 seconds, is not fun. Are you saying your PC takes 5 seconds to render after zoning, and that's fine?

I use a weight gally, and I've nearly lost it many times. Those close calls were fun to me because I was able to avoid sinking, as I have knowledge of in-game mechanics. However, when I zoned into a whale, or group of 3 gally sotd, when there was nothing I could do to prevent it, no amount of knowledge on the game was going to stop me from thinking to myself "this isn't fun, how can this be fixed?". The whale spun the gally around 20 times (that part was fun) sending the animals on deck flying into the polar waters, and it took hours to get the animals safely back. I avoided the polar for about a month after that happened.

edit: seems it's only 'not fun' because they are sotd, so Inigo is possibly somewhat correct. If the sotd (or whales I get stuck in) were other players, it would be less aggravating.

 

Edited by eeeceee

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Ok, tell me please how changing a game mechanic will improve someone's PC performance? If its not the SotDs, it will be something else causing him troubles. So, the game have to be changed to one big freeport cause it does not run smoothly on an antique or badly maintained PC? Really? 

99% of the issues experienced are not dev's or game fault. But its much easier to blame someone instead of checking your actions for mistakes, get extra information, use the best practices etc.

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Zoning times must be greatly influenced by PC performance, when me an my mate go map / treasure hunting, I always hop on the wheel when zoning as they take about 10 secs longer to zone than I do.

Zoning into a pack of SotD on a ship you have no control over as the person on the wheel is still loading in is hair raising to say the least.

also, suggesting changes to current game mechanics are far more likely to be considered, those who suggested (myself included) the targeting delay would probably like a complete overhaul but also have realistic expectations.

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Well, lets make all grids freeports but without the decay 🙂 Even then there are going to be enough people that will manage to lose their ships due to <insert random reason>. I think you all forget that ATLAS is a survival game after all. So... survive or die.

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So the arguments here are 'sotd are retarded to begin with, they should do nothing while they decide how to change them' and my personal favourite 'everything is fine, get a good pc' ...🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️

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6 hours ago, DoubleHelix said:

Some players jump borders for minute, some in 5 seconds. That should point at first place at hardware. If your PC is loading slowly, maybe you should take a look at this first instead of blaming the devs and asking for mechanics change. E.g. try lower graphic settings, low memory mode - there is a room for tweaking. Another frequently met issue is a computer that needs software maintenance. 

Changing game mechanics because someone is having issues because of obviously non-game design origin I find as absurd.

Apart of this, the inability to escape from SotDs points at game-mechanics ignorance. Since they have max speed of 6 knots and their AI is quite simple, it is a piece of cake to loose them even at same speed. Just wiggle your ship left and right and they will start making wider zig-zags than you as they are programmed to follow your ship. 

Apart from this - receiving some cannonballs IS part of the game. Deal with it. Or go play with Barbies.

Yes, news flash, different people have different pc's and some are better performing than others. While I agree that people should investigate and make appropriate changes to settings to maximize their machine's performance, you and I both know this only does so much to mitigate these sorts of problems. So, if someone is playing on a machine that is within the game's specs but after setting adjustment is still experiencing this issue, you find their complaint absurd. So glad you're not in charge, and your business accumen would not make your game last very long, since this is a customer service issue and your approach is to blame the customer and tell them to spend more on their pc (several hundreds up to thousands of dollars) in order to play your 30 dollar game better. Right.... This is what I find absurd.

Here's what's ignorance: talking about people's inability to escape from SOTD's as if it's a skill based issue when if you had taken the slightest bit of time to actually read AND comprehend the OP, you'd know it's all about a point in the game where all the skill in the world doesn't matter because you have no control over your ship DUE TO ZONING LAG. You're talking about wiggling your ship is nonsense because this is about a moment when you have no control over your ship. Or maybe you know this but are deliberately conflating irrelevant circumstances in order to diminish the complaint by disingenuously equating it with skill issues.

Either way, get real dude. The problem isn't the OP's skill, it's your lack of reading comprehension (or did you even actually read the OP, doing what many posters do and offering a knee jerk reaction off of reading a thread title?) and/or failure of logic in constructing your argument. No one here is arguing they shouldn't get hit with cannonballs, so your suggestion this is what people are complaining about is a strawman argument. The complaint is about getting hit with cannonballs from multiple sotd's you can't evade or fight back against yet because you're still stuck in the act of zoning. 

Does it make you feel superior to talk down to people and dismiss their complaints as childish even when you misunderstand or willfully distort what those complaints are? Instead of telling others to go play with dolls, maybe you should go talk to a therapist.

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4 hours ago, DoubleHelix said:

99% of the issues experienced are not dev's or game fault. 

*Falls out of his chair laughing at the sheer absurdity of this statement.*

No wait... I can't...I can't breathe...

It's  just so...

so

so freaking WRONG.

Anyone wanna start making a list of issues players have no control over that are directly a function of poor design or coding? And let's just get the counter argument out of the way and say yes, we're all very aware this is an EA game. It's unfinished and their will be issues. But claiming all or nearly all issues experienced are the players fault is patently absurd.

 

 

 

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The difference in the zoning lag duration IS player's problem. Face it. If it was game mechanic issue - we all should have a minute long one, but since some have 5 seconds and others - a minute, well... What are the devs supposed to do - buy the "minute guy" a new PC? Or call a tech to maintain it? People have to take care for their own stuff.

Regarding my "customer" approach - sorry to disappoint you, but the customer is not always right. You as a customer have to move your ass too and that is definitely NOT a customer service issue. The CS is not supposed to wipe your ass. Face it.

You can deny how much you want that the majority of the players are ignorant about core game mechanics, but this is a fact. Players overload their ships, players have no clue how to plan a route considering the wind, players have no clue how wind mechanics work, players have no clue how different types of sails perform etc. and all this is NOT a Customer Service issue too. GrapeShot are selling a game, but providing brain too is NOT among their prerogatives. 

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18 minutes ago, DoubleHelix said:

The difference in the zoning lag duration IS player's problem. Face it. If it was game mechanic issue - we all should have a minute long one, but since some have 5 seconds and others - a minute, well... What are the devs supposed to do - buy the "minute guy" a new PC? Or call a tech to maintain it? People have to take care for their own stuff.

Regarding my "customer" approach - sorry to disappoint you, but the customer is not always right. You as a customer have to move your ass too and that is definitely NOT a customer service issue. The CS is not supposed to wipe your ass. Face it.

You can deny how much you want that the majority of the players are ignorant about core game mechanics, but this is a fact. Players overload their ships, players have no clue how to plan a route considering the wind, players have no clue how wind mechanics work, players have no clue how different types of sails perform etc. and all this is NOT a Customer Service issue too. GrapeShot are selling a game, but providing brain too is NOT among their prerogatives. 

All of this nothing more than attempting to sidestep the very straightforward reality that players do not have control over the fact there is lag when they zone, they have no control over the fact there may be sotd’s firing on them before they have control over their ship on the other side, and your answer to these facts is to talk shit about anyone who doesn’t have your level of hardware or knowledge of software tweaking.

You know what’s a fact? Knowledge of game mechanics has ZERO to do with this issue, yet you keep bringing it up as an excuse to belittle others in an attempt to move the conversation away from the fact you have no real argument and are just here talking shit.

WTF does knowledge of wind have to do with getting hit by by sotd’s during zoning lag?

ZERO

Explain to me how whether a player is Mensa smart or Homer Simpson dumb will impact whether there are randomly sotd’s on the other side of their crossing. You can’t because it doesn’t. Explain to me how changing software profiles will eliminate zoning lag on a rig that is within game specs but not top of the line. You can’t because it won’t. If that rig is within game specs then yes it is a CS issue because getting blown out of the water when you have no control over your ship isn’t quality game design and this is I said your business acumen is lacking:

No the customer isn’t always right but when your game is already failing then saying to your remaining playerbase “LULZ UR RIG SUX GET GUD NOOB” over something you can fix to limit player frustration would be a dipshit move, but apparently it’s the one you would make.

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2 hours ago, boomervoncannon said:

Explain to me how whether a player is Mensa smart or Homer Simpson dumb will impact whether there are randomly sotd’s on the other side of their crossing.

Angle of border approach. Crossing the border at 90 degrees seriously increases you chance of ramming into SotDs. Especially if you KNOW that you have zoning lag. Here we come to route planning. 

2 hours ago, boomervoncannon said:

WTF does knowledge of wind have to do with getting hit by by sotd’s during zoning lag?

Route planning and accounting wind direction changes when crossing a grid. FYI - 5 degrees upon crossing East-West direction except for O-A crossing where you have a 75 degrees shift plus power change. That again comes with route planning. And again comes to knowledge of game mechanics.

2 hours ago, boomervoncannon said:

Explain to me how changing software profiles will eliminate zoning lag on a rig that is within game specs but not top of the line.

Zoning lag is due to different PC performances. If your PC is weak, you don't choose Ultra settings. You use brain and choose as start Low memory mode, then you lower graphic settings. And as well - you don't run YouTube, PornHub and torrent on background simultaneously.

2 hours ago, boomervoncannon said:

No the customer isn’t always right but when your game is already failing then saying to your remaining playerbase “LULZ UR RIG SUX GET GUD NOOB” over something you can fix to limit player frustration would be a dipshit move, but apparently it’s the one you would make.

Yet again we come to an issue with customer's property (his OWN computer). Sorry to disappoint you, but this is NOT GS responsibility. They do not sell PCs. They sell a game that have certain requirements. If your PC falls in these, but is still unable to run smoothly, its 2+2 to check for possible issues on your end too. Its common sense. But ofc, its quite easier to sit in the shit and yell - "Waaa, come wipe my ass"

 

Any other questions?

Edited by DoubleHelix

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Starting to feel like SotD is not very well implemented. This long of a debate should very easily raise a red flag for the devs.

i mean really. It doesn’t matter if they are really a problem or not. Just look at post count. If you have multiple pages it needs to be looked at plain and simple regardless of any arguments  

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The entire point of the argument of this thread is insane to me!!!

The people arguing against a 15 Second immunity are the people who want to Camp the border hoping to lure a player to there death???

These people should go back to playing eve and camping there low sec gates for the love of god get a life!!!

 

Absolutely there should be a 15 second immunity not just because of SOTD but because of people like this who think its fun to try and camp a server line>????  Really!!!!

 

I don't think people know what good pvp is anymore!  ^^^^ That is not PvP thats griefing....  

PvP Honorable, fun, and fair...  Sinking a person before there computer renders the next server is none of those things!

Edited by Sulfurblade
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