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So I'm reading a thread on Atlas Reddit filled with all the cryin' souls that just watched the live stream.  Blah, Blah, Yada, Yada, you know,  same ol stuff different week.  Regardless, I come across the following post ....


"The stream was basic at best, and the reason again as i stated above is because Dollie and Jat came on to discord voice and gave us the details that should have been in stream not discord voice. Instead of answering questions about cosmetics they should have answered questions like Dollie and Jat did that the majority cared about."


Easily raised my eyebrow and thought to myself "What the F#%k".  Again .... per usual .... per GS historical norm .... there are information channels that seem to get treated substantially differently than others.  If you are not in the right one, you are SOL.  So I'm kinda pissy and my son comes in and says "What's up?"  I explain to him the separation of information and he just nods and doesn't really say much (Usual response is "I can't believe your still playing that game.").  However, on his way out he does say "Forums are for old people, dad."  


What?  What does that even mean?  Apparently the general consensus "IS" discord and twitter for gaming info .... at least in his world.  So I thought about this as I really don't care for either to be honest, it does make sense.  I see the live stream dev panel and I would call all of them young(er).  An argument could be made about all info channels should receive the same information, but, I'm trying to stay away from that for the moment.  I'm sure that is where this will devolve though.  Secondarily, I do not know for certain if Jat and Dollie in discord voice even happened.


Seeing as I am an old(er) person (50), my question is .... if you are reading this, are you an old person?  Is this forum just filled with edgy curmudgeons shaking their walking sticks at the monitors?

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They ignore the old at their peril. They are the curmudgeons that have the disposable income, time, and dedication to make a progression game work. The younglings get distracted by the latest shiny and move like locusts from game to game, stripping content fields bare before dying in a glut of speedrun torpor. 

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37 minutes ago, Elmo said:

Apparently the general consensus "IS" discord and twitter for gaming info .... at least in his world.  So I thought about this as I really don't care for either to be honest, it does make sense.  I see the live stream dev panel and I would call all of them young(er).  An argument could be made about all info channels should receive the same information, but, I'm trying to stay away from that for the moment.  I'm sure that is where this will devolve though.  Secondarily, I do not know for certain if Jat and Dollie in discord voice even happened.


Seeing as I am an old(er) person (50), my question is .... if you are reading this, are you an old person?  Is this forum just filled with edgy curmudgeons shaking their walking sticks at the monitors?

So, first off, yes. Discord and twitter ARE they platforms of choice for this era. They have successfully supplanted forums.

I am 35. I prefer forums. It allows one to thoroughly read through peoples thoughts and take the time to digest and respond in kind. 

However it isn't fast enough or accessible enough for today's world. What discord in particular has done is find a way to merge forums with voice and accessibility. Its super uncomfortable feeling for people like yourself and I. To try to grasp the concept of a lesser voice platform than say, Ventrillo, coupled with a forum lacking abilities compared to what we would prefer. This is however not recognizing how incredibly seamless it is from phone, to tablet, to PC. You can effortlessly read posts, get alerted of them like a text message and even connect with voice with no real upper limit of users. 

Yes, aside from console boy, we are all the older group of gamer's. The ones with the disposable income and free time to consume.

-CS

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Posted (edited)

Just about the same age as you (48) with teen sons laughing at my pirate game’s direction. I really do like the game and will continue to play it almost everyday wipe or not. They listen to me complain about the unrealized potential and threaten that I’ll just LOAD”sidpirates”,8 on my C64 and show them a thing or two. Then they laugh some more. 

Edited by Gomez Addams
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1 hour ago, UnknownSystemError said:

They ignore the old at their peril. They are the curmudgeons that have the disposable income, time, and dedication to make a progression game work. The younglings get distracted by the latest shiny and move like locusts from game to game, stripping content fields bare before dying in a glut of speedrun torpor. 

Best comment I have seen in a while.

The disposable income portion of your statement would be merited if they had any kind of monetization system that could tap into it, but they don't. This is a one-and-done business plan, where their only source of income is through hype and new customers locusts.

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I'm 50. My Atlas friend who plays on our private Blackwood server is 52.

I agree with Chucksteak about reading to digest the posts in forums. The problem I have with Discord is the scrolling text black hole that is happening in real time. With forums, posts are more deliberate. Discord is just a vomit stream of crap with small chunks of useful info that get lost......unless it's verbal/talking info, then it's even LESS useful because you can't scroll up to "hear" the info if you're not on as the talking happens.

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I'm a few years older and the best thing is I don't rush anything anymore, real life or gaming I take my time. I've got loads more patience now. Oh and I'm officially a grumpy burger, and I like it!

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Posted (edited)

The fact that they provide more information on some private NA stream is terrible - no matter what platform are you using and how old you are. I expect a dev "live" stream in an early-access alpha game to contain all the information they have agreed, as a team, to share with the community. As a backer (that's what you all are - backers, not customers, you are backing up a project enabling it's development) you are entitled (yes I will use that word) to hear whatever the devs feel comfortable to "leak" out.

I should not be forced to go look for some unofficial unannounced private Q&A sessions to gain any meaningful information on the game I have decided to support. That being said - I respect Dolly and Jat for spending their time and participating in such things but the fact that you guys had to do this is simply repulsive, this sheds a terrible light on the company and splits the community even further. You ask us for feedback? You ask us to play on PTR-s and spend our time testing shit for you? You ask us to translate this game for you? Well we ask you to be honest and open, not sending your CM's to some obscure twitch channels to actually talk to people. 

Now I don't know what's worse, that terrible pre-recorded stream or those odd, unofficial Q&A sessions a "select few" knew about. 

Edited by Whisky Bob
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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Elmo said:

So I'm reading a thread on Atlas Reddit filled with all the cryin' souls that just watched the live stream.  Blah, Blah, Yada, Yada, you know,  same ol stuff different week.  Regardless, I come across the following post ....


"The stream was basic at best, and the reason again as i stated above is because Dollie and Jat came on to discord voice and gave us the details that should have been in stream not discord voice. Instead of answering questions about cosmetics they should have answered questions like Dollie and Jat did that the majority cared about."


Easily raised my eyebrow and thought to myself "What the F#%k".  Again .... per usual .... per GS historical norm .... there are information channels that seem to get treated substantially differently than others.  If you are not in the right one, you are SOL.  So I'm kinda pissy and my son comes in and says "What's up?"  I explain to him the separation of information and he just nods and doesn't really say much (Usual response is "I can't believe your still playing that game.").  However, on his way out he does say "Forums are for old people, dad."  


What?  What does that even mean?  Apparently the general consensus "IS" discord and twitter for gaming info .... at least in his world.  So I thought about this as I really don't care for either to be honest, it does make sense.  I see the live stream dev panel and I would call all of them young(er).  An argument could be made about all info channels should receive the same information, but, I'm trying to stay away from that for the moment.  I'm sure that is where this will devolve though.  Secondarily, I do not know for certain if Jat and Dollie in discord voice even happened. 


Seeing as I am an old(er) person (50), my question is .... if you are reading this, are you an old person?  Is this forum just filled with edgy curmudgeons shaking their walking sticks at the monitors?

well i still suck my pacifier here and there but i can guarantee you that the norm is to release all the information at the same time in all the media the game uses, for instance the info released on discor should be avaliable in the forums nonetheles, specially considering ATLAS discord is an unmoderated toxic dump, just reading it makes my eyes bleed.

Edited by The D Legacy

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Does not matter what Jat and Dollie age are  and where they prefer to hang out.    It is their job to communicate on the official communication channels of the company - which includes this forum.   if they are unwilling to do that - then either fire them or close the forums.   

 

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Posted (edited)

40 and 38 here we do not use social networks or mobile phones but I have a Youtube Channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC68xfICHvSEOQAoRrgNgYYQ, we are still waiting for Atlas to be a fun game in all its PvP and PvE aspects, while this is not the case we will continue waiting ...

I just bought elsweyr collector's edition 40% off, and I am with Destiny 2 as MAIN, so my wife and I can wait for Atlas to take a good course and we can play it, meanwhile she in FFXIV and I in Destiny 2 :F

Edited by Whito

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7 hours ago, Sleepinator2000 said:

Best comment I have seen in a while.

The disposable income portion of your statement would be merited if they had any kind of monetization system that could tap into it, but they don't. This is a one-and-done business plan, where their only source of income is through hype and new customers locusts.

Now, but you know the intent to monetize is coming. Either through DLC/expansions costs or through cosmetics store down the line. To much money being left on the table for them not to go for a piece of that pie once they get out of "early access"

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8 hours ago, Elmo said:

So I'm reading a thread on Atlas Reddit filled with all the cryin' souls that just watched the live stream.  Blah, Blah, Yada, Yada, you know,  same ol stuff different week.  Regardless, I come across the following post ....


"The stream was basic at best, and the reason again as i stated above is because Dollie and Jat came on to discord voice and gave us the details that should have been in stream not discord voice. Instead of answering questions about cosmetics they should have answered questions like Dollie and Jat did that the majority cared about."


Easily raised my eyebrow and thought to myself "What the F#%k".  Again .... per usual .... per GS historical norm .... there are information channels that seem to get treated substantially differently than others.  If you are not in the right one, you are SOL.  So I'm kinda pissy and my son comes in and says "What's up?"  I explain to him the separation of information and he just nods and doesn't really say much (Usual response is "I can't believe your still playing that game.").  However, on his way out he does say "Forums are for old people, dad."  


What?  What does that even mean?  Apparently the general consensus "IS" discord and twitter for gaming info .... at least in his world.  So I thought about this as I really don't care for either to be honest, it does make sense.  I see the live stream dev panel and I would call all of them young(er).  An argument could be made about all info channels should receive the same information, but, I'm trying to stay away from that for the moment.  I'm sure that is where this will devolve though.  Secondarily, I do not know for certain if Jat and Dollie in discord voice even happened.


Seeing as I am an old(er) person (50), my question is .... if you are reading this, are you an old person?  Is this forum just filled with edgy curmudgeons shaking their walking sticks at the monitors?

Not to insult your son because he is merely speaking from his point of view and obviously has provided a useful insight, but my response would not be appropriate for his young ears.

Let me be perfectly clear about what I mean here. 

MY AGE IS IRRELEVANT.

YOUR AGE IS IRRELEVANT.

What is relevant is that this is the game’s official forums. The developers and ESPECIALLY the community moderators have an ABSOLUTE and undeniable professional responsibility to provide ALL relevant official information and communication here, regardless of wherever else they may chose to provide it. As a longtime Ark player who has been here since Day One, I feel that I have given this development team every possible benefit of the doubt when it comes to Atlas’s development. I have attempted to provide fair, rational and useful feedback and ideas while being patient with bugs, glitches, design flaws.

What has bothered me personally more than the delays, the lack of direction, the lack of any semblance of ability to meet any stated timeframe is the favoring of certain channels of communication over their own official forums. When the developers say things in other channels of communication but not here, to me it feels like a slap in the face. What their actions say to me is this: “We don’t care that you have taken the Extra time and energy to post here to provide coherent and useful feedback. We can’t be bothered to keep you just as well informed as those in other channels because we can’t be bothered to even make the effort to appear diligent and professional.”

IF YOU CAN BOTHER TO SAY IT ON DISCORD OR TWITTER OR SOME FUCKING INGAME CHAT CHANNEL YOU CREATED TO EXPLICITLY FAVOR CERTAIN COMPANIES OVER THE REST OF US, THEN YOU SURE AS SHIT BETTER SAY IT HERE.

WHY?

ITS

YOUR

FUCKING

JOB.

 

Oh, do I have your attention yet? @Jatheish @DollieAre you noticing that this isn’t the usual even tempered Boomer meditation on the topic of the day? Take it as a given that this topic, hearing that you are going into certain channels and providing answers to questions asked REPEATEDLY here, yet not doing the forums the courtesy of that same time and attention, combined with past shenanigans where twitter, discord and PRIVATE FUCKING CHAT CHANNELS CREATED TO GIVE CERTAIN CLANS DIRECT ACCESS TO THE DEVELOPMENT TEAM (a disgustingly unfair practice that I have nothing but utter contempt for) get the 411 while the forums are left guessing, has left me furious at you and your companies blatant and disrespectful lack of professionalism in your communications with your playerbase.

Im not going to debate this with anyone. I’m not going to shake my fists and demand this that or the other. You can conduct your business as you see fit.

But so can I. The next time I hear of other channels being given special access, announcements, information, clarification etc etc, and that information is not clearly provided here on your own official forums to the players who have been your most useful and committed providers of feedback, I will seek my entertainment elsewhere. Atlas will cease to have my support or input in any form. I have given you my money, my time, my thoughts and my support from the beginning like any number of other folks here. If you cannot be bothered to do us the most basic courtesy to keep us as well informed without having to track down information sources which we don’t prefer, then I don’t see any reason I should continue to waste my time with you or your game.

 

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I'm old and I agree.  The issue is not that much about being old or being young, except that younger people seem more attracted to shiny new things that promote some sense of belonging to some group or other.  If you're older you might have learned over time that the important thing is whether a tool suits the purpose.

I remember years ago at work when a bunch of people got very very excited about changing all the systems our company used for internal email, calendars, documents, accounting, marketing and sales...for everything...because the idea of client/server had just come out.  These apps had all been running on a series of mainframes with boring text interfaces and command line interactions.  This group was dazzled by new pc based interfaces with icons you could click on - they were colorful and fun and new.    The old system had maybe 200 huge servers grouped in 5 centers around the world serving over 300,000 people.  These excited people were all set to replace them with an enormous series of locally run lans, running windows, and were really charged up about it idea.    Utterly the wrong tool for the job.

So..if the job is to communicate key aspects of the game to a player base located in timezones around the world, with varying amounts of attention and time to spend looking for info, what's the best way to do that?    Synchronous or asynchronous communication?  Do you put the information in a central place where everyone can come and see it during whatever timeslot they have available?  Or do you float it out onto discord where it remains for an hour or so and then disappears into a massive stream of mostly useless remarks?  

If you have a complex issue to talk about, do you write paragraphs about it or do you chop it up into tiny groups of 280 characters each and tweet them as 1/16, 2/16, 3/16 so that they're nearly unreadable?  

Using discord and twitter and livestreams is arrogant.  It says, "You must all come to me, when and where I say so to get this information."  With something like discord it's even worse, because you're not told when to be there, you must just go and sit and wait in case a developer shows up and feels like saying something.  There are actually people who do that.   Pfffft.  I'm not your fan, I'm your customer.  If there's somethng you want to tell me, put the info somewhere and I'll go see it at my convenience.

I understand why the devs feel they have to participate in social media.  Games are part of the entertainment industry, and you've got to be seen as fresh and hip and up-to-date.  You've got to make contact in the places the players are, and that's where the (younger) players are.    But social media needs to be for socializing.  You don't make product announcements to one table at a cocktail party, you make them in some official way that everyone involved can access.  Websites are good for that.  Social media is good for...socializing.

 

They've made a couple of improvements since the last time we complained about this, but things are backsliding now.    Inside scoops on discord.  Special channels for "special" people.  On again, off again participation in the forums, including asking for lots of feedback and then ignoring it.    Wrong tools, wrong methods, and not much respect being shown for people's time and participation in their project.

Now get off my lawn.

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Let's clear a few things up.

The voice chat occurred on our 50k member Official ATLAS Discord, not in a private Discord or channel. It was within an hour of the stream ending, spontaneous on my behalf (and on my own time outside of work hours) as I was aware of some confusion and lot of questions in relation to the stream. I saw 100 or so people gathered in voice, asked another colleague if he would join with me to moderate whilst I spoke, shouted "I MUST GO TO MY PEOPLE" at him and joined the channel to talk with players. I love talking with our players and wanted to address their concerns and reassure them, and, going on the comments and messages I received, they were very happy also. 

Jat joined later once he was able, to predominantly, listen in and get a read on player's concerns with me. During that time, approximately 300 or so people filtered in and out to ask questions and listen in. I spent about an hour and a half with them. It seems a player joined about half way through and broadcast some of the conversation on his stream unbeknowst to me at the time. I would like to reiterate that this voice conversation was not planned, it was held on our public and Official Discord, and it was done of my own volition and on my own time.

This spontaneous talk led to Jat and I sitting down together yesterday and using information gathered from the voice chat to write up the Recap you can find here in order to address player's concerns and questions on a wider scope and to a broader audience to make sure no one missed out. The voice chat directly facilitated being better able to identify where players wanted clarity on the Stream and, in my humble opinion, improved the quality of the Recap post. 

I apologise if my response here may be a little blunt. It's quite disheartening to see some of the responses in this thread.

Could we communicate more on these forums? I don't think there's such a thing as too much communication across any of our official channels. Now the Roadmap is out to the community and Xbox has been announced we can be more forthcoming and responsive after a month or so of less direct activity in regards to Captain's Logs, posting in threads, posting on Discord etc. I understand some of you don't want to join the Official Discord and I'll remain aware of that and dilligent in cross-posting anything relevant here also. 

As always, we'll continue to share info and respond to players across all of our Official channels: these Forums, ATLAS Discord and Twitter. 

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1 minute ago, Dollie said:

Let's clear a few things up.

The voice chat occurred on our 50k member Official ATLAS Discord, not in a private Discord or channel. It was spontaneous on my behalf (and on my own time outside of work hours) as I was aware of some confusion and lot of questions in relation to the stream. I saw 100 or so people gathered in voice, asked another colleague if he would join with me to moderate whilst I spoke, shouted "I MUST GO TO MY PEOPLE" at him and joined the channel to talk with people. I love talking with our players and wanted to address their concerns and reassure them, and, going on the comments and messages I received, they were very happy also. 

Jat joined from the Seattle office once was able, to predominantly, listen in and get a read on player's concerns with me. During that time, approximately 300 or so people filtered in and out to ask questions and listen in. I spent about an hour and a half with them. It seems a player joined about half way through and broadcast some of the conversation on his stream unbeknowst  to me at the time. I would like to reiterate that this voice conversation was not planned, it was held on our public and Official Discord, and it was done of my own volition and on my own time.

This spontaneous talk led to Jat and I sitting down together yesterday and using information gathered from the voice chat to write up the Recap you can find here in order to address player's concerns and questions on a wider scope. This voice chat directly facilitated being better able to identify where players wanted clarity on the Stream and, in my humble opinion, improved the quality of the Recap post. 

I apologise if my response here may be a little blunt. It's quite disheartening to see some of the responses in this thread.

Could we communicate more on these forums? I don't think there's such a thing as too much communication across any of our official channels. Now the Roadmap is out to the community and Xbox has been announced we can be more forthcoming and responsive after a month or so of less direct activity in regards to Captain's Logs, posting in threads, posting on Discord etc. I understand some of you don't want to join the Official Discord and I'll remain aware of that and dilligent in cross-posting anything relevant here also

As always, we'll continue to share info and respond to players across all of our Official channels: these Forums, ATLAS Discord and Twitter. 

Dollie, I have no grudge against you or Jat as you took your time and reached out to the community. I have a problem with how this was announced (or the fact that it wasn't) and that live stream, compared to an "after-thought" voice chat, contained 0 information. Nobody's dissin' ya but if you, as a company, agree to release certain information it should not be on some "emergency" voice chat. You have an entire website you can post this stuff on so everyone can read about it whenever they are comfortable to do so, do not bottleneck your information in a way that some people will be forced to wait for the stars to align to hear anything meaningful. People here are hungry for solid info not some vague pie charts on pre-recorded dev panel - those who are left simply don't buy into that corporate-level BS. 

Once again - thank you for your dedication, you are breathtaking - but please improve the information distribution and accessibility. 

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Dollie said:

Let's clear a few things up.

The voice chat occurred on our 50k member Official ATLAS Discord, not in a private Discord or channel. It was spontaneous on my behalf (and on my own time outside of work hours) as I was aware of some confusion and lot of questions in relation to the stream. I saw 100 or so people gathered in voice, asked another colleague if he would join with me to moderate whilst I spoke, shouted "I MUST GO TO MY PEOPLE" at him and joined the channel to talk with players. I love talking with our players and wanted to address their concerns and reassure them, and, going on the comments and messages I received, they were very happy also. 

Jat joined from the Seattle office once was able, to predominantly, listen in and get a read on player's concerns with me. During that time, approximately 300 or so people filtered in and out to ask questions and listen in. I spent about an hour and a half with them. It seems a player joined about half way through and broadcast some of the conversation on his stream unbeknowst  to me at the time. I would like to reiterate that this voice conversation was not planned, it was held on our public and Official Discord, and it was done of my own volition and on my own time.

This spontaneous talk led to Jat and I sitting down together yesterday and using information gathered from the voice chat to write up the Recap you can find here in order to address player's concerns and questions on a wider scope and to a broader audience to make sure no one missed out. This voice chat directly facilitated being better able to identify where players wanted clarity on the Stream and, in my humble opinion, improved the quality of the Recap post. 

I apologise if my response here may be a little blunt. It's quite disheartening to see some of the responses in this thread.

Could we communicate more on these forums? I don't think there's such a thing as too much communication across any of our official channels. Now the Roadmap is out to the community and Xbox has been announced we can be more forthcoming and responsive after a month or so of less direct activity in regards to Captain's Logs, posting in threads, posting on Discord etc. I understand some of you don't want to join the Official Discord and I'll remain aware of that and dilligent in cross-posting anything relevant here also. 

As always, we'll continue to share info and respond to players across all of our Official channels: these Forums, ATLAS Discord and Twitter. 

Let me be clear also. I have no issue if spontaneous communications arise on other channels but 

A) My anger is not over just this incident alone. The mere fact GrapeCard saw fit to create an ingame channel to communicate directly with certain companies, giving them direct access to developers and moderators while leaving the rest of us as second class citizens is both a grossly prejudicial and unfair way to proceed with not only game development  but community relationships as well. How can you all not see that such a move completely undermines your standing as impartial arbiters of the game in the eyes of anyone not part of this special members only channel? To do such a thing is grossly unprofessional and I personally find it disgusting.

B) This is not the first time anyone at GrapeCard has favored one channel of communication over another, giving out key information and leaving the forums in the dark. In just 9 short months, this company has developed the habit and the reputation for picking and choosing how and where to disclose important information that should go out on ALL channels of communication, and if it does not, should certainly go on it's own official forums before anywhere else. I am sick and tired of feeling like the red headed step child to discord, twitter and dog knows what else when the people here are the ones putting their time and energy into writing not 240 characters, not jibber jabbering on voice, but whole pages of valuable feedback that devs can actually read at their leisure and go back and reference later. Go on, try to tell me that the feedback in other channels is as useful as what is provided here. I could use a good laugh right now. That being the case, your first obligation to your playerbase should be to make sure the forums are at the very worst, at least as well informed as anywhere else. I shouldn't even have to explain or argue for this, it should be standard practice.

C) If you find yourself needing to have information conversations in other channels with parties to actually answer burning questions the community has just after doing a live stream, then that should speak volumes to you about the quality and usefulness of the livestream you produced and provoke some self examination as a company and professionals. Also anything conveyed there should be promptly summarized and posted here for the communities benefit.

This running around picking and choosing which channel or platform gets what information when and not providing uniform and consistent messaging across ALL platforms is bush league. Cut it out. Failing to do so is part of what has made your game and your company the laughingstock of the industry right now. If that sounds harsh it is because sometimes the truth hurts. My boss has a saying: Any excuse will do. The first step to turning Atlas around as a game is for the development team to accept responsibility for where they are and be accountable.  The way the livestream and this issue have been handled do not convey the impression of people who are being accountable, but rather people continuing to do what they have always done, the same way they've always done it. All that will get you is more of the same.

Edited by boomervoncannon
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Posted (edited)

Thank you for that Dollie, but i'm sitting here for 10 minutes trying to not type that your post doesn't really change much or anything of what I thought I already knew.

Ok, so the voice chat was on the official discord. There was a need to goto discord, and this discord voice chat improved the quality of a post that was addressing the concerns that lead to the voice chat. There was a need for the post.

I can't disagree with anything you're saying, and I think that might be because one of us is missing the point.

 

 

 

Edited by eeeceee

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2 hours ago, boomervoncannon said:

Let me be clear also. I have no issue if spontaneous communications arise on other channels but 

A) My anger is not over just this incident alone. The mere fact GrapeCard saw fit to create an ingame channel to communicate directly with certain companies, giving them direct access to developers and moderators while leaving the rest of us as second class citizens is both a grossly prejudicial and unfair way to proceed with not only game development  but community relationships as well. How can you all not see that such a move completely undermines your standing as impartial arbiters of the game in the eyes of anyone not part of this special members only channel? To do such a thing is grossly unprofessional and I personally find it disgusting.

We haven't created any in-game channels specific to Companies, this isn't possible. You may be thinking of Company Discords, of which I am in about 30. These are created and used by Companies/Alliances for their own communication with each other and myself and Jat are invited as guests. Some create a #dev-chat channel or something of that ilk. As with all other channels, we read everything and respond less so (as it's just impossible to respond to everything). Players there are not privy to VIP info or "special treatment" customer service. If they report something on their Company Discords or require Customer Service, they're directed to the ticketing system (as with the Official ATLAS Discord). If they report bugs, they're directed to official ATLAS Discord #bug-reporting channel or the forums. If they offer lengthy feedback, they're urged to post it on the forums where we have more eyes on it. Worthy to note that these Company Discords most frequently give us info about exploits in the game that would be more critical if shared publicly. 

2 hours ago, boomervoncannon said:

B) This is not the first time anyone at GrapeCard has favored one channel of communication over another, giving out key information and leaving the forums in the dark. In just 9 short months, this company has developed the habit and the reputation for picking and choosing how and where to disclose important information that should go out on ALL channels of communication, and if it does not, should certainly go on it's own official forums before anywhere else. I am sick and tired of feeling like the red headed step child to discord, twitter and dog knows what else when the people here are the ones putting their time and energy into writing not 240 characters, not jibber jabbering on voice, but whole pages of valuable feedback that devs can actually read at their leisure and go back and reference later. Go on, try to tell me that the feedback in other channels is as useful as what is provided here. I could use a good laugh right now. That being the case, your first obligation to your playerbase should be to make sure the forums are at the very worst, at least as well informed as anywhere else. I shouldn't even have to explain or argue for this, it should be standard practice.

The forums is the first place we go for our most "official/important" communication. Think of it in tiers. I agree that important info should go out on all platforms, and, in that respect, the forums are the hub for that. Tier 1 Communication goes in Captain's Logs and Announcements here on the forums and on Steam. A link to the post on these forums is shared in the Official ATLAS Discord's Announcement channel and on the ATLAS Twitter. This is the best avenue for that. Casual chit chat occurs on the Discord and scrolls past quickly.

Some of the best feedback can be found on the forums but it isn't limited to here, no. Companies/Players frequently make us 5-10 page Google docs and send it to us via DM on Discord. Reddit posts can offer valuable feedback. Observing players chat and debate with each other on the Official Discord is also useful. If lengthy feedback posts are made on Discord, our Mods are directed to link them to the forums and nudge them to post it here so it doesn't get lost. All of it is valuable to us. All of it is read. 

2 hours ago, boomervoncannon said:

C) If you find yourself needing to have information conversations in other channels with parties to actually answer burning questions the community has just after doing a live stream, then that should speak volumes to you about the quality and usefulness of the livestream you produced and provoke some self examination as a company and professionals. Also anything conveyed there should be promptly summarized and posted here for the communities benefit.

This running around picking and choosing which channel or platform gets what information when and not providing uniform and consistent messaging across ALL platforms is bush league. Cut it out. Failing to do so is part of what has made your game and your company the laughingstock of the industry right now. If that sounds harsh it is because sometimes the truth hurts.

The Stream was limited in time and, it seems, some things that were said slipped under the radar for many players. We recognise that some things we assumed were expressed clearly, weren't. Yes, everything conveyed in the Dev Livestream (or not conveyed as well as we'd hoped in some instances) along with what was shared in my (rare) voice chat with players was summarised and posted here (as linked in my post above). We recognise that the format of the Livestream didn't translate as we'd hoped and we're working on improving that in future Streams.

I think there's a bit of a disconnect in regards to assumptions on what is shared on Discord or Twitter, it seems there's a belief that some important info is shared there exclusively. Tell me how I can remedy that perception, I'm listening. Admittedly I have been of the belief that responding to a lengthy and well thought out post here with a "I hear you, we're looking into it" may be perceived as trite in context whereas I'm more likely to respond as such on Discord (or with a thumbs up emoji if I'm really pressed for time) because Discord is more conducive to a few words in a scrolling chat according to my own perception. Would you guys prefer brief acknowledgement of something being read even if we have nothing substantial to share on it yet? Will forum users welcome a "gotcha"  or a like as a response or find it insulting? I'm open to adapting. 

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My workday has begun so I cannot immediately respond, but I will reread your responses Dollie and offer my thoughts later today when I have free time. Thank you for taking the time to discuss in depth.

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I think rather than information, it's about perception.

As I write this I see both yourself and Jat are in the discord channel and I don't have to scroll up far to see your name, however looking at your and Jat's post history here on the forum, it's been 10 days since Jat commented on someones post and twice that long since you posted on someone else's post other than this one.

For those of us that keep an eye on the game using these forums rather than the social media that is not a topic specific, and you miss things as you are sleeping and working most the day, It gives the impression we are mostly ignored. 

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3 hours ago, Dollie said:

.......... Would you guys prefer brief acknowledgement of something being read even if we have nothing substantial to share on it yet? Will forum users welcome a "gotcha"  or a like as a response or find it insulting? I'm open to adapting. 

OMG yes !!!!!  A thousand yesses !!!!

It would be amazing knowing someone from the "team" read my post that I (usually) try to craft with care so that no stone is left unturned and no detail that isn't clear.

If it isn't MY post but one that I'm discussing and a thread that I'm following, I still would feel great knowing that the text we're so passionate about writing and the topic we're trying to address hasn't fallen on "deaf" eyes.

Thank you for your communication here in this thread, and I'm looking forward to more! 👍

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Jack Shandy said:

I think rather than information, it's about perception.

Perception and perspective.

I'm not irate, up in arms, or even more than slightly worked up over all this stuff, and I think Jat and Dollie are trying very hard to do this right, but I also think there are some perspective points that get missed.

Sure, it's part of the job if you see 100 people in discord voice chat getting worked up over something to go in there and try to address it.   But it's easy to get caught up in the moment and lose perspective.    What's the correct answer to 100 people in discord upset about a wipe?   This is just my opinion, but if you understand first that it's NOT just 100 upset players on discord, it's everyone, what needs to be done is to tell those discord players you understand that everybody wants more information on this, and you are going to get with your team, draft a statement, and post it on the forums by the end of the day, and then do that.  The discord group gets shown some respect, they get told an answer is coming and where to find it, and the situation has been de-escalated.   If you let a highly emotional group of people wind you up so that you begin shooting from the hip trying to make them happy, the results won't be great.

Here's where I think the discord respnse fell down and needs improvement:

We've had the same brouhaha about wipes here on the forums for a couple weeks now, with various regular participants posting with great surety and authority that there will , of course, be a wipe with crossplay, even if it's not technically needed, because the servers must be clean for the new players.  It's ridiculous, but even so, it's discouraging new players, and causing existing players to talk about leaving, to put off starting big projects in the game, etc.   It may appear to lack the urgency and emotional level of what happened in discord because the forums work at a slower speed over a greater amount of time.  (Which is where my comments are coming from about letting the emotional level of the players dictate your responses above )

Yet with the forum threads, no one thought "I MUST GO TO MY PEOPLE", and ran in here to correct those opinions.  Apparently the forum people are not "the people".  Even so, you should know this is a universal concern and it should be handled universally and centrally, rather than rushing in specially on a day off to handle the concerns of one group, after ignoring another for weeks.  There may also be other places where this issue has been a big topic, and if so, I'm sure those players would like to see it addressed as well.

It's not easy having many official venues of communication and trying to keep a rambunctious player base happy on all of them without showing favoritism. Again, just my opinion, but I'd use the social media sites for "personality" appearances, light game chat, and the opportunity to point to officially released statements on the website, and I'd use the official website for statements of concern to everyone, and the heavier game issues.  The website crawler that sometimes gets used at the top for breaking news is a great addition.  It's good that the twitter feed is on the main page of the wiki, but that should also be on the main website page, taking the place of the oldest captain's log there or something else that's not really needed.

just my .02

Edited by Winter Thorne
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Posted (edited)

Being off work hours is not an excuse when your job is to communicate.   If you are communicating to your players then you are working, it is irrelevant what time it is.    You was not working so it did not count? Really?

The reason everyone is upset is that a Q&A session interacting with the devs is what twitch chat livestreams are for.   The fact that you think you had to go to discord to talk to people is what is wrong - that is what is supposed to have been done in the livestream.   

We should not have got prerecorded half hour of pitch slides   Next time do it live half hour of slides then take actual questions about the presentation.   

I challenge you to go to the Q&A thread and document how each question was answered on the live stream.    But cat whiskers and side jokes about hats?  Really?

Edited by krazmuze
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The fact is they took the easy way out with the non livestream, and thought it would be the best of the many choices they had. I don't think they did it right but that's all we got. They obviously are going to be spending a huge amount of time with the xbox version, that much was clear. and I may be wrong but the way they talked and the size of the slice of combat pie to come looks like a pvp/pve merge at some point. I only take notice of actions anyway, words are easily spoken and just as easily forgotten.I'll still play for now, they'd have to go very bad I think before I'd stop playing.

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