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Winter Thorne

Wipes are mostly unnecessary

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Ah, I see. Again, am not a console player, thank you for clearing that up. Being a PC player hell yeah, 100% wipe. Lets get this battle get started the right way, on a clean, uncluttered and untouched,  battlefield!  .. now back to my SINGLE PLAYER game. lol.. but, ADD those Badges, Grapeshot, let them all know who your "vets" are with a lot of time served behind the helm, in your crazy world, here. 😛

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Liatni said:

Ah, I see. Again, am not a console player, thank you for clearing that up. Being a PC player hell yeah, 100% wipe. Lets get this battle get started the right way, on a clean, uncluttered and untouched,  battlefield!  .. now back to my SINGLE PLAYER game. lol.. but, ADD those Badges, Grapeshot, let them all know who your "vets" are with a lot of time served behind the helm, in your crazy world, here. 😛

Exactly. A wipe would be awesome. I mean can imagine wanting that influx of players and have those players all be level 1 and you are level 100 and just swat them like flies. Not only would they leave quick, but you wouldn’t even feel like you accomplished anything.

it would go back to single player in a week lol.

yeah I know what you mean man. It just needs to happen. The excitement is there with a wipe. Without the wipe the console release would just fail hard, which the servers would be left with this much or less than right now

edit: totally cool with exclusive badges or cosmetics for the “loyal” btw. 👍

Edited by Realist
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*Blunt Truth's Time*

 

Truth 1) OMG news flash people don't like having their stuff wiped!  Shocker!

Truth 2) If you can't deal with wipes DON'T play an Early access game in development!

Truth 3) Major changes to the base game will change the game experience from start to finish and Developers need to know how and if they need to balance things thus a NEED for a wipe from time to time!

 

Disclaimer: I am in know way supporting or not supporting a future or upcoming wipe I am merely pointing out things that should be common sense, apply them to this situation as you see fit.

 

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11 hours ago, Sulfurblade said:

*Blunt Truth's Time*

 

Truth 1) OMG news flash people don't like having their stuff wiped!  Shocker!

Truth 2) If you can't deal with wipes DON'T play an Early access game in development!

Truth 3) Major changes to the base game will change the game experience from start to finish and Developers need to know how and if they need to balance things thus a NEED for a wipe from time to time!

 

Disclaimer: I am in know way supporting or not supporting a future or upcoming wipe I am merely pointing out things that should be common sense, apply them to this situation as you see fit.

 

Surprisingly, I agree with you on some of that.  Truth 1 for sure.  

As far as truth 2 and truth 3 -  sure.  It's EA.  There will be wipes.  There shouldn't be wipes without a good reason for them, and most of the reasons people have been posting here are not good reasons.  What's a good reason?   

Technical reasons cause wipes.  If there's some major change being made to the hardware or OS or networks where it's impossible to overlay the saved data back down after the change you get a complete wipe.  

Nearly all the other (valid) reasons for wiping don't require a full wipe.  If there's a massive change to the geography, you can wipe the geography and leave the character data intact.  With some planning, you could also allow characters to save some possessions - ships, tames, mats, BPs, etc.

If there's a huge new feature coming that changes characters so they must be started over -  a completely different skillpoint/skilltree/leveling system, or something like that, you can preserve claims and possessions and just wipe the char data, leaving only the ID number.  If you wanted to be nice about it, you could pre-load the new chars with the new skillpoints or level points.

If they end up merging some servers, that may require a wipe.  It may not.

Almost all the other reasons people are giving for wipes aren't things you need to wipe for.  Many of them boil down to - "I'm bored.  We should wipe.", or "I want to start playing on a brand new server nobody else is playing on yet."    Both are bad reasons for a wipe.

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12 hours ago, Winter Thorne said:

Surprisingly, I agree with you on some of that.  Truth 1 for sure.  

As far as truth 2 and truth 3 -  sure.  It's EA.  There will be wipes.  There shouldn't be wipes without a good reason for them, and most of the reasons people have been posting here are not good reasons.  What's a good reason?   

Technical reasons cause wipes.  If there's some major change being made to the hardware or OS or networks where it's impossible to overlay the saved data back down after the change you get a complete wipe.  

Nearly all the other (valid) reasons for wiping don't require a full wipe.  If there's a massive change to the geography, you can wipe the geography and leave the character data intact.  With some planning, you could also allow characters to save some possessions - ships, tames, mats, BPs, etc.

If there's a huge new feature coming that changes characters so they must be started over -  a completely different skillpoint/skilltree/leveling system, or something like that, you can preserve claims and possessions and just wipe the char data, leaving only the ID number.  If you wanted to be nice about it, you could pre-load the new chars with the new skillpoints or level points.

If they end up merging some servers, that may require a wipe.  It may not.

Almost all the other reasons people are giving for wipes aren't things you need to wipe for.  Many of them boil down to - "I'm bored.  We should wipe.", or "I want to start playing on a brand new server nobody else is playing on yet."    Both are bad reasons for a wipe.

I have to completely agree with surfer on reason 2. Too many people have became very entitled as far as EA goes as of late.

it is really bad form. EA should be wiped on a regular basis as to test every aspect of the game “even end game”. It is already very easy to level up. It is the company’s fault for not having higher rates during the EA phase to reach end more quickly.

this company doesn’t do EA. They release their game and then build accordingly as far as the money goes. If you haven’t noticed, when they need money they come up with something new. Sure all businesses do that. Not all businesses do EA. 👍

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Realist, how would you know if its easy to level up if you don't play the game? If its easy to level up, why are you complaining about a non level playing field? You don't want to play because a lvl 100 will beat you up, you speak for all the future console players who say they won't play because a lvl 100 will beat them up, huh? Why don't you just level up. If there is a whole population of players including megas waiting to play on console, they are just like any future players or megas waiting to play on PC.

I'm certain that you also actually agree with the rest of Winter Thorne's post.

It seems only a joke character wants to play only if they are allowed to join the game world after everything is wiped - isn't that kind of like how PVE island owners wanted to grief people and destroy their stuff using the purge button? I think the reason that some people convinced themselves was a good enough reason for the purge button was because they wanted a "nice clean place to live in" when they started playing, so everything before the glorious time we were blessed by their presence is not needed. What happened to that feature?

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13 minutes ago, eeeceee said:

Realist, how would you know if its easy to level up if you don't play the game? If its easy to level up, why are you complaining about a non level playing field? You don't want to play because a lvl 100 will beat you up, you speak for all the future console players who say they won't play because a lvl 100 will beat them up, huh? Why don't you just level up. If there is a whole population of players including megas waiting to play on console, they are just like any future players or megas waiting to play on PC.

I'm certain that you also actually agree with the rest of Winter Thorne's post.

It seems only a joke character wants to play only if they are allowed to join the game world after everything is wiped - isn't that kind of like how PVE island owners wanted to grief people and destroy their stuff using the purge button? I think the reason that some people convinced themselves was a good enough reason for the purge button was because they wanted a "nice clean place to live in" when they started playing, so everything before the glorious time we were blessed by their presence is not needed. What happened to that feature?

I was not a fan of the purge button to begin with. I also think the whole claim system is stupid.

i very rarely agree with anything Thorne says and I have no clue how leveling up easily has anything to do with a level playing field.

i totally get that pc people need the advantage. I never said they didn’t. Everyone here already knows what i think about pc people as actual people not even as gamers. I have never once strayed from my opinions. 

A wipe will happen because it needs to happen. 

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The purge button is an example of trying to relate - any of the reasons that can somehow be imagined by someone who doesn't play the game, to think that a purge button is bad, they are equal to any reasons that a wipe is bad.

A wipe will happen, or not, but it shouldn't be because of forums being spammed by people who are waiting to play the game. It's most likely unnecessary however, as OP and others have pointed out.

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2 hours ago, Realist said:

i totally get that pc people need the advantage. I never said they didn’t. Everyone here already knows what i think about pc people as actual people not even as gamers. I have never once strayed from my opinions.

 

Lmao I never laughed so hard. 90% of the things you post is funny. No no really it is. I will give you credit you definitely don't stray. But doesn't mean you don't talk out one side you your mouth.  I get it though once apond of time I never played PC so I get that you don't understand. But since you want to call PC players PC people and not pin point who it is you are talking about so basically calling everyone that plays PC the same. I have 90% of every console there is right now hooked up in my house. I have a gaming laptop that I use to travel with and a PC. I see more toxic console players when playing online games then I do when playing online PC games. You sir are very toxic. I will just leave it at that.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, crazywildfire said:

 

Lmao I never laughed so hard. 90% of the things you post is funny. No no really it is. I will give you credit you definitely don't stray. But doesn't mean you don't talk out one side you your mouth.  I get it though once apond of time I never played PC so I get that you don't understand. But since you want to call PC players PC people and not pin point who it is you are talking about so basically calling everyone that plays PC the same. I have 90% of every console there is right now hooked up in my house. I have a gaming laptop that I use to travel with and a PC. I see more toxic console players when playing online games then I do when playing online PC games. You sir are very toxic. I will just leave it at that.

How dare you call me toxic. I get insults hurled at me all the time. I have never told anyone to STFU or tried to take away someone’s opinion. I have the right to my opinion and you and some others try to take that away. I am far from toxic.

there is even a couple people on here that I won’t name that literally get on to trash peoples ideas and then insult them. If anything I am one of the more straight forward and transparent people on here.

i get most of my opinion about pc people from this very forum. I see the behavior and the language so i have formed my opinion which I will keep to myself just like I did in my other post.

there are people on here that I tend to agree with and even get along with so they probably don’t fit into my opinion of pc people but I am generalizing. I most definitely know that not every person of one type can fit into a stereotype, but most usually do.

Edited by Realist

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Posted (edited)

I tried to just give hints so that people could figure it out for themselves (that's how it's done..) but what I'm saying is that you are basically a wannabe PVE island owner who doesn't even own the land yet who wants to use the purge button, if you can only think of 'crossplay' making 'money' for the 'devs' as some kind of valid reason to post.

Apparently, there is lots of islands removed and added in the PTR, so a wipe may actually happen based on the past events. Hopefully, and this is important, as grapeshot has stated, there will be some way to prevent a wipe. In ark, if a area was required to be wiped, the devs implemented a visible red ring around the area, and notified people so that they could move their stuff. Basically, a soft wipe. When the legacy servers became legacy, there was an opportunity to move to the new servers.

Honestly, all of this thread is just a rehash of threads from years ago in the ark forums. Realist, if you say you are an ark player, get a clue mate, please.

To contribute - I wish that the game would somehow become viable in a state that is stable. The whole nature of the game is to avoid wipes. It is a persistent world, and the whole point, as Realist has conceded, is to grind and achieve something in a persistent world. Thus, any argument that its good for wipes to occur, or any bs postulation that there is going to be a wipe is detrimental. If however there is a technical or logical reason for a wipe, such as changes that the OP has pointed out, or changes that have caused wipes in the past (for both ark and atlas) then that is ok. You would need to be a dev to talk about this, and until then, please rethink your post.

Edited by eeeceee

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1 hour ago, eeeceee said:

I tried to just give hints so that people could figure it out for themselves (that's how it's done..) but what I'm saying is that you are basically a wannabe PVE island owner who doesn't even own the land yet who wants to use the purge button, if you can only think of 'crossplay' making 'money' for the 'devs' as some kind of valid reason to post.

Apparently, there is lots of islands removed and added in the PTR, so a wipe may actually happen based on the past events. Hopefully, and this is important, as grapeshot has stated, there will be some way to prevent a wipe. In ark, if a area was required to be wiped, the devs implemented a visible red ring around the area, and notified people so that they could move their stuff. Basically, a soft wipe. When the legacy servers became legacy, there was an opportunity to move to the new servers.

Honestly, all of this thread is just a rehash of threads from years ago in the ark forums. Realist, if you say you are an ark player, get a clue mate, please.

To contribute - I wish that the game would somehow become viable in a state that is stable. The whole nature of the game is to avoid wipes. It is a persistent world, and the whole point, as Realist has conceded, is to grind and achieve something in a persistent world. Thus, any argument that its good for wipes to occur, or any bs postulation that there is going to be a wipe is detrimental. If however there is a technical or logical reason for a wipe, such as changes that the OP has pointed out, or changes that have caused wipes in the past (for both ark and atlas) then that is ok. You would need to be a dev to talk about this, and until then, please rethink your post.

Wannabe pve? I don’t have any problem with pve people but you sure seem to. Is calling me a pve wannabe a way of trying to insult me because I wouldn’t take that as an insult. Pretty sure @boomervoncannonis a pve player and he seems like an ok guy. I am a pvp player and that is the main reason I want the wipe. 

I will continue to keep saying to wipe because I will not be buying the game if there is not one. I want to purchase the game but not if it is already filled.

feel free to put me on ignore. It won’t hurt my feelings. 

Crossplay is big enough for a wipe. Disagree all you want, but you aren’t going to shut me up.

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Posted (edited)

It may not be the devs choice if Crossplay is done, if they are being promoted by Microsoft (as Ark was) then it is possible that part of that contract is Crossplay since Microsoft badly wants to merge Windows 10 PC gaming with Console gaming.

There is no mechanical reason for a wipe with crossplay is just comes down to they will surely make more sales if XBOX think they are buying a new game rather than a stale map.  XBOX gains surely will be greater than PC leaving - because PC already left and those that did not - well they already have your damn money.

There absolutely is mechanical reason to wipe characters if islands are replaced - even if a rescue boat of admins shows up to clear the area (as would be expected on unofficial - but is stated policy that they do not have hand holding admins on official)   Discovery points are tagged by ID per char.  Do you give people credit for islands that do not exist giving them more DP than possible?    Do you risk ID database corruption because of dangling  references?  Do you risk complaints that the procedural resource algorithm rearranged where stuff is like happened with last map change which was a good reason to wipe so people could fairly relocate?   On our unofficial when we did it we wiped the characters as it was the only way to make the work and that was with time consuming admins giving everyone their levels and stuff back which is not going to happen on official..   It is much better for everyone if things are wiped for this case and the facts show that players do come back from a wipe, they just will not stay if the new map and rules does not make the game better.

WPE is not a mechanical reason to wipe as it is designed to only appear on empty islands.    However they have already shown in the interest of fairness they will wipe - Colonies was not a reason to wipe as they could have just erased all the flags and made it a free for all (which is what most unofficial did)   They did it out of fairness so that everyone has a chance to claim the islands without fighting someone already being entrenched.  WPE is the exact same argument about fairness - old players did not have to PVE fight to take an island.

So if Crossplay comes and WPE comes and island replacements come?   They are going to wipe.  Or you can believe that PC PTR is testing the WPE and new islands for XBOX servers, and PC servers will not get them so no wipe.

Edited by krazmuze

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6 minutes ago, krazmuze said:

It may not be the devs choice if Crossplay is done, if they are being promoted by Microsoft (as Ark was) then it is possible that part of that contract is Crossplay since Microsoft badly wants to merge Windows 10 PC gaming with Console gaming

I'm not certain of this but I think Ark was promoted by Microsoft only once it was console available and possibly because it is crossplay. I'm not aware of any Microsoft promotion of Atlas however and I've been here since day one.

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Posted (edited)

Of course you have not seen Microsoft promote XBOX Atlas - it is simply not available on console for them to promote.  It would be a huge mistake on M$ part to promote these devs will release something by such and such date.  But surely a contract that once it is available they will promote it if they do crossplay is the reality, why would they promote something that does not do crossplay when that is the WIndows 10 gaming push?

Edited by krazmuze

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26 minutes ago, krazmuze said:

It may not be the devs choice if Crossplay is done, if they are being promoted by Microsoft (as Ark was) then it is possible that part of that contract is Crossplay since Microsoft badly wants to merge Windows 10 PC gaming with Console gaming.

There is no mechanical reason for a wipe with crossplay is just comes down to they will surely make more sales if XBOX think they are buying a new game rather than a stale map.  XBOX gains surely will be greater than PC leaving - because PC already left and those that did not - well they already have your damn money.

There absolutely is mechanical reason to wipe characters if islands are replaced - even if a rescue boat of admins shows up to clear the area (as would be expected on unofficial - but is stated policy that they do not have hand holding admins on official)   Discovery points are tagged by ID per char.  Do you give people credit for islands that do not exist giving them more DP than possible?    Do you risk ID database corruption because of dangling  references?  Do you risk complaints that the procedural resource algorithm rearranged where stuff is like happened with last map change which was a good reason to wipe so people could fairly relocate?   On our unofficial when we did it we wiped the characters as it was the only way to make the work and that was with time consuming admins giving everyone their levels and stuff back which is not going to happen on official..   It is much better for everyone if things are wiped for this case and the facts show that players do come back from a wipe, they just will not stay if the new map and rules does not make the game better.

WPE is not a mechanical reason to wipe as it is designed to only appear on empty islands.    However they have already shown in the interest of fairness they will wipe - Colonies was not a reason to wipe as they could have just erased all the flags and made it a free for all (which is what most unofficial did)   They did it out of fairness so that everyone has a chance to claim the islands without fighting someone already being entrenched.  WPE is the exact same argument about fairness - old players did not have to PVE fight to take an island.

So if Crossplay comes and WPE comes and island replacements come?   They are going to wipe.  Or you can believe that PC PTR is testing the WPE and new islands for XBOX servers, and PC servers will not get them so no wipe.

Nah man. We are talking about steam crossplay with Xbox. Of course Microsoft wants wants crossplay with the Microsoft store and ark did do that. I would also be completely fine with that.

crossplay with steam is a very different story that most definitely needs a wipe.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, krazmuze said:

 

There absolutely is mechanical reason to wipe characters if islands are replaced - even if a rescue boat of admins shows up to clear the area (as would be expected on unofficial - but is stated policy that they do not have hand holding admins on official)   Discovery points are tagged by ID per char.  Do you give people credit for islands that do not exist giving them more DP than possible?    Do you risk ID database corruption because of dangling  references? 
 

There may be sometimes and there may not be other times.  Regarding discovery points, you can wipe all reference to dp that don't exist anymore.  No "dangling references", no giving more DP than possible.  Nobody expects rescue boats of admins, but allowing people to rescue themselves has been done before, and keeps people happy.

1 hour ago, krazmuze said:

WPE is not a mechanical reason to wipe as it is designed to only appear on empty islands.    However they have already shown in the interest of fairness they will wipe - Colonies was not a reason to wipe as they could have just erased all the flags and made it a free for all (which is what most unofficial did)   They did it out of fairness so that everyone has a chance to claim the islands without fighting someone already being entrenched.  WPE is the exact same argument about fairness - old players did not have to PVE fight to take an island.

So if Crossplay comes and WPE comes and island replacements come?   They are going to wipe.  Or you can believe that PC PTR is testing the WPE and new islands for XBOX servers, and PC servers will not get them so no wipe.

Wipes for fairness?  LOL.  They shut down an entire pve server and gave it to pvp for over a week.   There are no established "rules of fairness" happening here, and it's a bad argument.  You might as well say existing players had to fight griefing players who kept sinking their ships, hacking their pin codes, and killing them with repair hammers, so we have to bring all that back too, because..fairness.

Good arguments have to do with keeping the game moving forward and retaining the player base.  But if you want to talk about fairness, first you have to remember that that means different things in pvp and pve.  Second, WPE isn't a "new player" situation.  Are you trying to say that if someone starts playing the game next November and WPE is on official, it's unfair to them to have to fight WPE, when the existing players didn't, so everyone has to get wiped for "fairness"?    What happens if they have a big steam sale and 2000 people buy the game next Feb.?  Wipe the servers for "fairness" again?

I'm speaking mostly about pve here, and pvp has its own challenges for bringing in new players when the older ones can just flatten them.  But this is something every game has to solve -  how to prevent newbie ganking. So far, none of the other games have decided to wipe the servers when someone new joins to prevent this.  

As much as I'd like to see WPE on official, it's a silly idea anyway, because it's so temporary.  Sure, there's empty islands they could go on right now, or you could wipe the place and it would be empty for them, but at some point, the servers will be fully loaded like they used to be, and all the islands will be claimed.  New people will have to wait to get an island from someone who is leaving on pve or fight for it on pvp.  If you've been playing since December, think back to how that was, and realize it will be like that again some day.  There won't be any place for WPE, so the idea is all done at that point.  It's a concept that needs a rethink.  They need to be put on unbuildable adventure islands or something.

Edited by Winter Thorne
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I don't care about wipes I'm just waiting for the moment they say "No more wipes".  Then again who knows what I'll be playing then, might not even be worth coming back. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Realist said:

crossplay with steam is a very different story that most definitely needs a wipe.

Actually is that even  possible - wouldn't that require XBOX code to logon to steam server authenticate?   Would (has?) Microsoft ever enabled that?  Is Minecraft like that or is on just all platforms without crossplay?

Yes if it is crossplay that only WIN10 PC players that bought it on the Microsoft XBOX store - then they are a new player playing on the new XBOX server since they are logging on with their XBOX store account.  No wipe just a new server.

 

Edited by krazmuze

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Winter Thorne said:

If you've been playing since December, think back to how that was, and realize it will be like that again some day.  There won't be any place for WPE, so the idea is all done at that point.  It's a concept that needs a rethink.  

But WPE is more for when the population is decaying like it is now in a death spiral - people leaving because people are leaving.   WPE on official makes sense to stem that loss by providing those who remain something to do until people come back instead of leaving themselves.   They surely did not develop it solely for single player to have more fun - the game would need a complete rewrite to not feel like you are soloing an MMO.

It is useful also for the new server that WPE makes sense, it slows down the land rush giving more people a fair chance.

Edited by krazmuze

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22 minutes ago, krazmuze said:

But WPE is more for when the population is decaying like it is now in a death spiral - people leaving because people are leaving.   WPE on official makes sense to stem that loss by providing those who remain something to do until people come back instead of leaving themselves.   They surely did not develop it solely for single player to have more fun - the game would need a complete rewrite to not feel like you are soloing an MMO.

It is useful also for the new server that WPE makes sense, it slows down the land rush giving more people a fair chance.

Well I wouldn't mind if they tossed it as us as a bauble to keep us happy, but still, it makes no sense given your argument that it requires a wipe.

"Here you go, something fun to play with so you'll all stick around - WPE.   But first we're going to destroy all your stuff for it.  Hey, where's everybody going?"

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1 hour ago, krazmuze said:

Actually is that even  possible - wouldn't that require XBOX code to logon to steam server authenticate?   Would (has?) Microsoft ever enabled that?  Is Minecraft like that or is on just all platforms without crossplay?

Yes if it is crossplay that only WIN10 PC players that bought it on the Microsoft XBOX store - then they are a new player playing on the new XBOX server since they are logging on with their XBOX store account.  No wipe just a new server.

 

Only killer instinct and rise of nations have a steam/Xbox crossplay. They have been working making it possible for a while but hopefully not there yet. 

Yeah I totally wouldn’t mind a win 10/Xbox crossplay at all. Fresh servers are the most important thing.

i think that they aren’t ready for steam/Xbox crossplay of a game this size though.

evidently it works by making steam recognize Xbox gamer tags 

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Realist said:

Wannabe pve? I don’t have any problem with pve people but you sure seem to. Is calling me a pve wannabe a way of trying to insult me because I wouldn’t take that as an insult. Pretty sure @boomervoncannonis a pve player and he seems like an ok guy. I am a pvp carebear and that is the main reason I want the wipe. 

I will continue to keep saying to wipe because I will not be buying the game if there is not one. I want to purchase the game but not if it is already filled.

feel free to put me on ignore. It won’t hurt my feelings. 

Crossplay is big enough for a wipe. Disagree all you want, but you aren’t going to shut me up.

Oh, ok, lets just talk about what you wanna talk about then, and lets just ignore most things that've been discussed in the thread up until now, and lets talk about whether or not people are PVE players or not.....

 

I'm not trying to insult you, i'm trying to help you (you need help.)

The word 'crossplay' is not a big enough word that it is just somehow 'big enough' for a wipe.

Nobody needs you to shup up, you just need to show what you have shown so far, and help everyone else to avoid posting such dribble (you've posted it for them.)

 

Edited by eeeceee

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