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Realist

Atlas and steam charts

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1 hour ago, user1 said:

Because if i kept silent about the things they do that i hate, they wouldn't know how pissed i actually am.

And here at the end we see the foundational premise from which everything else you say proceeds. It is very important to you that the devs know how pissed you are. Your personal emotional reaction is the overriding factor in the things you say here. “This game is utter garbage. “ is not a statement made by someone who wants to fix the game or thinks it can be. It is the statement of someone who only wants to hurl as much vitriol as possible.

Is that the way that adults deal with things they don’t like? Your posts are too well constructed to be that of a child but rather than choose to simply leave the game as a lost cause that you have given up on OR stay and offer useful constructive feedback in the hope it may get better, the usefulness of any insight you have to offer gets lost in the noise of your bile. I imagine game developers have pretty thick skin, you would need it to to survive in such a customer feedback intensive industry, but they are also only human. If you do nothing but scream at them that they are awful and incompetent, they WILL tune you out eventually, and then what did your efforts accomplish?

Raising your blood pressure, which only puts you in the ground faster.

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4 hours ago, boomervoncannon said:

This is still just a game. Is it really worth all this angst?

 

I don't do straight up stupidity and gamer entitlement.

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1 hour ago, Whitehawk said:

What I don't understand here is how everyone expects atlas to be bug free after 8 months. Skyrim still has bugs and quest glitches, Fallout 4 is a nightmare of bugs, ESO has plenty and so does WOW, as for royale that has its fair share too.Nearly every game does. Also, just because you don't like a game it doesn't give you the right to hurl insults at the people that do. I paid £11  for atlas and i've played it for 400 hours, I paid £24 for skyrim and played it for 200 hours. And I'm still playing atlas. If you don't like the game then fine that's your choice to make and the same for those of us that do like Atlas it's our choice to make.

you probably should read (and if you have done so re-read) the past posts of this thread, bugs is like 1% of all we are talking about.

51 minutes ago, Gomez Addams said:

Why would anybody be posting here if they didn’t like it?

is called feedback 🙂 kinda morphed into salt sometimes but in the end we all post with hopes of making a change, nothing can improve without criticism.

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20 minutes ago, boomervoncannon said:

And here at the end we see the foundational premise from which everything else you say proceeds. It is very important to you that the devs know how pissed you are. Your personal emotional reaction is the overriding factor in the things you say here. “This game is utter garbage. “ is not a statement made by someone who wants to fix the game or thinks it can be. It is the statement of someone who only wants to hurl as much vitriol as possible.

Is that the way that adults deal with things they don’t like? Your posts are too well constructed to be that of a child but rather than choose to simply leave the game as a lost cause that you have given up on OR stay and offer useful constructive feedback in the hope it may get better, the usefulness of any insight you have to offer gets lost in the noise of your bile. I imagine game developers have pretty thick skin, you would need it to to survive in such a customer feedback intensive industry, but they are also only human. If you do nothing but scream at them that they are awful and incompetent, they WILL tune you out eventually, and then what did your efforts accomplish?

Raising your blood pressure, which only puts you in the ground faster.

to be fair i think his emotions affect more his manners than his arguments, there are some points he pointed out that i can kind of agree with.

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16 hours ago, Sulfurblade said:

So unlike yourself my posts stay on topic, and somehow relate to the game.

Your posts are either attacking the community or swearing or some combination of the two!

How about some of the attacks on the community!

I really don't think I need to say much more as your own word's say plenty!

Yes you are the problem. "Altas is just a cashgrab mod reskin totalconversion jatgrabgrab." Take that dispassionate shit to the toilet, and flush it. I'm here on these forums to see this game improve. Do you want to see the game improve or not?

Also, get over the colorful use of language, seriously, what part of Peglegtheangry can you not comprehend? I mean, there is obviously

plenty you can't comprehend (like finances.) It's a sailing game, I don't know what you expect from me.

Edited by PeglegTheAngry

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8 minutes ago, PeglegTheAngry said:

I don't do straight up stupidity and gamer entitlement.

You don’t have to.

1. You can ignore it. Not every bit of foolishness requires a reply. This is a lesson I have struggled with at times myself.

2. You can answer without resorting to such obvious profanity laced all caps change my font color so they can see how mad I am tirades. These things only make it easier for those your anger is directed towards to dismiss you as unhinged and unreasonable. It also makes third parties more inclined to view you this way. In short it detracts from your message rather than adding to its impact.

Think of Don Corleone in The Godfather. Not once did he raise his voice or spew profanity, even when face to face with the men who killed his first born son. But everyone listened when he spoke, and no one doubted he was a man to be reckoned with. He let the force of what he said carry its own weight.

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16 minutes ago, boomervoncannon said:

Think of Don Corleone in The Godfather. Not once did he raise his voice or spew profanity, even when face to face with the men who killed his first born son. But everyone listened when he spoke, and no one doubted he was a man to be reckoned with. He let the force of what he said carry its own weight. 

The Don could also kill people and get away with it. As soon as I can figure out how to do both through the internet, I might change my 'tude. Till then, decorum is for the birds as far as I am concerned. If people are going to come to this forum, or Reddit and do nothing but heap myths and hearsay about the game... Im gonna speak up. I'm not going to be nice because that isn't accomplishing anything with these people.

Again the whole "CASH GRRAB" bullshittiery. Comes from a place of both stupidity and entitlement. I have no patience for either.
Neither should you, it's what
's wrong with the world.

Edited by PeglegTheAngry

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16 minutes ago, PeglegTheAngry said:

The Don could also kill people and get away with it. As soon as I can figure out how to do both through the internet, I might change my 'tude. Till then, decorum is for the birds as far as I am concerned. If people are going to come to this forum, or Reddit and do nothing but heap myths and hearsay about the game... Im gonna speak up. I'm not going to be nice because that isn't accomplishing anything with these people.

Again the whole "CASH GRRAB" bullshit. Comes from a place of both stupidity and entitlement. I have no patience for either.
Neither should you, it's what
's wrong with the world.

You have a point about the Don. I didn't mean to suggest you should back up your words with violence, so the example may have been poorly chosen. If you think speaking nice to people won't get anywhere with "these people" I can assure you that yelling profanity at them won't either. In your whole life has anyone treating you this way ever changed your mind about anything? Come on, we both know the answer is that all it did was mentally cause you to tell them to go @#%$ themselves before the words were even out of their mouth. That's what the people you're yelling at are doing to you right now too. Because homo sapiens.

As far as cash grab, it's not entirely from stupidity and entitlement, although I will say that a more reasoned examination of the circumstances ought to cause one to lean away from, rather than into, that hypothesis in Atlas's case. I have laid out my reasoning in other posts, so I won't repeat myself here. I will only add that cash grab has become increasingly a problem within the industry in recent years, so when gamers yell this, it isn't coming out of a vacuum. Not GrapeCard™ per se, but numerous bad actors on the development side of the business have made this something gamers must be more wary of. 

Personally I am of the opinion that if Valve wanted to show leadership on this issue, it would at the very minimum institute some accountability metrics for developers using Early Access, the way Kickstarter has done for games raising funding on their site. The portals are the obvious industry actors to take action on this other than self policing, which is hit or miss. In any event, you should be willing to at least look further into the present atmosphere in the overall industry that leads people to make these claims, even when they might not be fair to a particular development team at the moment.

Edited by boomervoncannon

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Dyu know I pay nearly £400 pounds a year to drink water? that's a cash grab as it's something I can't live without. If the air was fresh i'd probably have to pay for that too. Atlas isn't really a con because you don't have to buy it, my water bill, now that's a con!

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9 minutes ago, Whitehawk said:

Dyu know I pay nearly £400 pounds a year to drink water? that's a cash grab as it's something I can't live without. If the air was fresh i'd probably have to pay for that too. Atlas isn't really a con because you don't have to buy it, my water bill, now that's a con!

This is a somewhat valid point because Atlas as a leisure game is a luxury good. Absolutely no one is required to buy it. However, cons can exist when luring people to spend money on things that they want but don't need. When people cry cash grab about games, what they are saying is not "They're forcing me to buy something for more than I should have to pay!" (what's happening with your water)  but "They're selling me something and not making a good faith effort to make it a quality product worthy of my purchase."

Side note:

All US consumers pay a few cents more for virtually all of the prepared food that they eat because almost everything we eat has sugar in it, and wealthy sugar magnates have successfully lobbied Congress to ban importation of foreign sugar to the US. Thus nearly every food US consumers buy costs a few pennies more because the sugar used it in was more expensive than it needs to be in a true free market. Economists have estimated this adds up to the average person in america putting several hundred dollars more per year than they should without the legislation directly into the pocket of a handful of sugar billionaires. Hidden con!

Edited by boomervoncannon

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16 minutes ago, boomervoncannon said:

 If you think speaking nice to people won't get anywhere with "these people" I can assure you that yelling profanity at them won't either.

At this point I am not trying to win them over. I just want them gone from this place. And, boy does being abusive get that done.

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24 minutes ago, PeglegTheAngry said:

At this point I am not trying to win them over. I just want them gone from this place. And, boy does being abusive get that done.

I don't think anyone's leaving because you're being abusive. I think they're leaving because of various complaints with the game. Your approach isn't making things better, it's just adding to a toxic environment, which won't attract the kind of people you do want playing the game because they won't stop to parse the nuance of your motivations in yelling, they'll just see that you're yelling and move along.

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9 minutes ago, boomervoncannon said:

they'll just see that you're yelling and move along.

I think I am coming off the wrong way. I really don't think big red letters and hammers and sickles are "yelling." The colors of the USSR were red and yellow. Or are formatting jokes too out of style now?

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9 minutes ago, PeglegTheAngry said:

I think I am coming off the wrong way. I really don't think big red letters and hammers and sickles are "yelling." The colors of the USSR were red and yellow. Or are formatting jokes too out of style now?

I can't speak for anyone else, but what you're doing is definitely coming off as angry yelling to me. Any joke about political affiliation didn't even come to mind.

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23 hours ago, PeglegTheAngry said:

🌨️   ☃️ You all need to chill the hell out ☃️   🌨️

 🍍🔥👈🌬️   🍺👉👄   🍬☝️👃    💊👉🍑

What about when its a bit more obvious?

 

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Yeh we get sugar tax too, our government would tax intercourse if they could, but they wouldn't know what to do if you if you were owed a rebate!

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4 hours ago, PeglegTheAngry said:

At this point I am not trying to win them over. I just want them gone from this place. And, boy does being abusive get that done.

Lol. Nope

2 hours ago, Whitehawk said:

Yeh we get sugar tax too, our government would tax intercourse if they could, but they wouldn't know what to do if you if you were owed a rebate!

I guess they would call it the masturbation tax, either that or prostitution technically?

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3 hours ago, PeglegTheAngry said:

What about when its a bit more obvious?

 

Cook pineapple in the winter? 🤷‍♂️

Edited by Realist

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9 hours ago, Whitehawk said:

What I don't understand here is how everyone expects atlas to be bug free after 8 months. Skyrim still has bugs and quest glitches, Fallout 4 is a nightmare of bugs, ESO has plenty and so does WOW, as for royale that has its fair share too.Nearly every game does. Also, just because you don't like a game it doesn't give you the right to hurl insults at the people that do. I paid £11  for atlas and i've played it for 400 hours, I paid £24 for skyrim and played it for 200 hours. And I'm still playing atlas. If you don't like the game then fine that's your choice to make and the same for those of us that do like Atlas it's our choice to make.

I certainly don't expect this Early Access game to be BUG free.....

I do expect it to have content and be fun!!!  These are very different things!

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7 hours ago, PeglegTheAngry said:

Yes you are the problem. "Altas is just a cashgrab mod reskin totalconversion jatgrabgrab." Take that dispassionate shit to the toilet, and flush it. I'm here on these forums to see this game improve. Do you want to see the game improve or not?

Also, get over the colorful use of language, seriously, what part of Peglegtheangry can you not comprehend? I mean, there is obviously

plenty you can't comprehend (like finances.) It's a sailing game, I don't know what you expect from me.

I expect you to behave like an adult, and have civilized conversation!

This is a Forum not the game this is not a place for Role Play unless its specifically marked as such this is a place for feedback about the game 

POSITIVE or NEGATIVE

So Developers can take said feedback back to the development of their game and improve on it....

This is Not a place to defend a Game, defending a game in DEVELOPMENT is not doing it any justice!!!

Different Strokes for different folks you need to understand that, some people will like what you don't, in these situations to take a Cue from Bambi's mother.

"If you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all"

Again your post has nothing to do with game features, game mechanics, how to make said game better or worse, it's just another post where you rail against members of the community!

 

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7 hours ago, PeglegTheAngry said:

At this point I am not trying to win them over. I just want them gone from this place. And, boy does being abusive get that done.

No it's pretty much the reverse being abusive will only lead to you being removed from this forum!

If you think your tirades do anything more then make me laugh at you, well your living in a fantasy world.

However once again I have been baited bye you to respond to a post that has nothing to do with this game, its features, or its development so for the love of god get on topic!

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6 minutes ago, Sulfurblade said:

No it's pretty much the reverse being abusive will only lead to you being removed from this forum!

If you think your tirades do anything more then make me laugh at you, well your living in a fantasy world.

However once again I have been baited bye you to respond to a post that has nothing to do with this game, its features, or its development so for the love of god get on topic!

Just try your best not to take the bait. I have made sure to keep my comments very calm. The last thing I need is for me to be removed for a very unjust reason. I have calmed down a lot.

p.s. Come to Twitter lol. I am a totally different A-hole over there 😂 I would actually like some of these guys insulting me to come over there as well so we can have a different conversation.

Edited by Realist

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Quote

1. Doing a cashgrab is a short term, burn your reputation for the sake of the money approach with no long term view. If you're Jeremy and you've made exactly one game with your name on it and that game was a smash hit, would it make a lot of sense to then burn your own reputation by doing a cashgrab, or would it make more sense by trying to build on that reputation by creating another hit? 

So who takes the rep hit Wildcard?  Grapeshot while many know is an arm of Wildcard.

Snail games the developers of Dark and Light are another Arm of Wildcard and why?

Why does Wildcard not put its own name on the arms of development branching off doing new games???

As for Jeremy caring about his personal rep, I doubt he honestly has much say in the matter, as the guy who created the Mod of course he was hired its the simplest way 

for a company to claim rights to the Mod.  They Hire its creator and then have the sign paperwork transferring ownership of the Mod to the company!  We have seen this in DayZ and other Mod inspired game additions.  

Meneth created a Wiki page for Crusader Kings 2, Paradox wanted control of the page so they hired Meneth and took control of it...  Pretty common practice in the industry.

 

Quote

2. The traditional math behind the business model of developing an MMO makes it the least likely vehicle for a cash grab of any type of game. MMO's typically have some of the longest development cycles and biggest budgetary requirements of any type of game before being brought to the market. Once they are, the model calls for them to make money over time through subscriptions or cash shops, not in big bursts of players purchasing a stand alone game at a premium.

The traditional MMORPG is built from the ground up, with Atlas you already had half your development done already thanks to the Ark Mod, this is the point of it being an easy way to make more money for the company!  Aka Cash Grab....   DayZ was expected to be a Cash Grab too, had they known they would have to recreate the engine twice, had they known it would end up in perpetual beta, had they known it would end a stain on there reputation they Bohemia may not have done it.  

So regardless of your reputation factor it's pretty clear the corporate bigwigs behind Wildcard thought Atlas would be easy money, the same way they thought Dark and Light would be easy money!

Quote

Also with regards to the suggestion I have seen repeated here many times that this game is just an Ark mod, I have a couple of thoughts. The wave action of Atlas seems like something that requires it's own code and would be pretty extensive in the way that it interacts with land and ships. I don't know for sure but developing this tech as well as the grid system that lets each zone border each other, which was it's own tech that needed to be worked out for the game, seems a bit beyond the scope of just a mod to me. Additionally, I have over 4k hours in Ark, owned my own multi server cluster for over a year that made extensive use of mods. Between me and my admins, we looked at an awful lot of mods for Ark. I don't ever recall seeing a mod that seemed like a candidate for being Atlas's foundation.

So obviously you can't simply cut and paste the code, I have no doubt they were and maybe still are aiming at a viable game.  But what I am sure is the Corporate types considered this easy money, so sure the water animations are brand new but that doesn't change the fact the game is based on an Ark Mod does it?

As for the Server set up, this is nothing revolutionary in fact what atlas was attempting to call revolutionary server structure was nothing more then the same thing Ultima Online did in 1997, infact its nearly identical....  However even this is a bit of a tail because Nitrado are the people who have actually put this in place for them hence the, shoulder and arm partnership where Nitrado servers are the first things spammed to you when your looking to create your own server.

 

Quote

1. GrapeCard™ is by their own admission a small team. Part of Atlas's failure to date could very well be penny pinching on Jeremy's part with the size of the team he chose to hire and devote to this enterprise. Paucity of development resources is certainly a plausible factor to Atlas's inauspicious beginning.

 Penny Pinching on Jeremy's part???  While I think Jeremy's vision is half baked I certainly wouldn't give him this much credit.  As I doubt he has any credible control on the finances as again he was simply hired in order to claim ownership of the Mod, and now that they do own the mod his employment is no longer that important.  In Fact I would not be even remotely surprised to see him either quit or be fired in the near future as he likely doesn't have the control he wants and the company probably feels he is getting in the way.

Quote

2. It has fairly recently come to my attention that although MMO's have some of the biggest development budgets, over 50% of most game's budgets are devoted to marketing and advertising costs, and this is something where Atlas so far has spent almost no money.

Exactly they haven't invested much into marketing, They didn't need to create the concept of the game from the ground up, all these things add up to a simple mathematical point.  The Powers that be who control the purse strings see this game as guaranteed income  and they are not going to splurge on it and cut into that income.  The Dev's pitched that Atlas could be an easy was to make money and possibly a good game to there corporate overlords and they heard:

No server upkeep Nitrado would fit the bill

Small Team with a Scape Goat (Jeremy) Who created the mod the game will be based around.

Half the game already developed because its a mod

Rebranding of the Development team to keep as much possible blow back at bay.

And Limited Development cycle (2 years)

Plus Early access - So immediate sales out the door.

^^^^^  All that adds up to an Investors wet dream, or as some gamers call it, (A Money Grab)

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Beyond me, why the devs never cared to listen to the public. Guess that goes to show you they never really cared now did they?

Too bad too, had so much potential to be a good pirate game, not a tame game like ark is. People already have that game. Is the wild west the same way?

 

Now it is starting to sound like a cash grab company then anything.

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Are not games that are "cash grabs" typically, quick easy set up platforms and or copy paste with little effort into making them, for profit?

Seems Atlas is in no way and easy game for them to make 😛 and a whole lot of effort and time has been spent in development since it's been out, with more content added and bugs to be addressed and all that, that comes from a game in development.

Its not like real "cash grabs" where someone tosses out something and they are done. The only reason people started using that term is its the current "in thing" to be doing in a couple months they will start flinging around another one.

 

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