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Captain Jack Shadow

Wiping is bad.

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At some point, you have to realize that pushing on a door that only opens towards you, just isn't going to work.

 

I have played several survival games, and every one has the ability to totally wipe people...set them back to zero.  What took months to acquire, in some cases, can be wiped out in minutes.  I have been playing those games again, and I'm presently playing Conan.  What I have seen in the past, and I'm seeing again, is that people often quit the game after getting wiped.  For some of those games, I am not sure what can be done to fix that, but I think Atlas is unique, in that a fix that drastically reduces the pain of getting wiped, can also enhance the game play.

I noted before that if there is a central bank on the Freeports, and a Stable for tames, it would provide for more pirating at sea, while also lessening the impact of wipes.

The stables would allow you store 2 of each type of animal.  This would work just like uploading a dino in Atlas, except that there is no timer.  You talk to the stable owner, and pay a fee to store the animals.  Nothing outrageous...like a few credits per week, per animal.  You can also breed on this island.  A new structure should be made.  Just big enough for the tames to breed in, and a baby to be raised in.  It disappears after the baby matures.  Babies left unattended for 48 hours after this happens, after they matured, become claimable.

The Central bank would allow you to store gold, blue prints, and maps.  Maps would not decay while stored there, but could become invalid if somebody builds on that spot.  A limit could be set on how many maps and BPs a company can store at the bank.  Not a small number, but also not an unlimited number.  Gold stored should earn interest, but a safety deposit box for the maps and BPs should cost a small amount of gold.  So storing gold could auto-pay the cost for the safety deposit box.

So, what this does is create pirating opportunities, as people try to store their valuables, but also when they pick them up, to use them.  What most companies would likely do, is try to keep enough gold at their base to pay the NPCs, for about a week, but then they would need to make occasional gold runs from the bank, back to base.  After breeding your animals, you would need to get them home.  To use maps, you would need to go pick them up.  To use BPs, you would need to pick them up and take them back to base.

Having gold stored, would also allow a company that got wiped, to quickly recover, as they can use gold to buy resources.  They could have a few BP ships ready to go, and enough structures, and enough NPCs to get a base set up someplace, very quickly, if they were diligent about creating their safety net in the bank.

Somebody who spent 3 to 6 months creating an awesome breeding line, isn't going to feel like they are now, once again, standing at the foot of Mt Everest, after having made it to the summit, or gotten nearly to the top.

I think this would help stop the bleeding, the people leaving the game, after being wiped.  It would also add more fun and pirating opportunities.  I think it would take some of the focus off of wiping, and put it onto pirating.

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I really like this idea, I liked it so much I included it as an idea in my "Nations" system, but it functions more like the space station from EvE Online.

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Great idea. It helps players who do lose their ships and base get back into the fight much quicker rather than quitting the game entirely by starting from scratch.

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8 hours ago, Captain Jack Shadow said:

Having gold stored, would also allow a company that got wiped, to quickly recover, as they can use gold to buy resources.  They could have a few BP ships ready to go, and enough structures, and enough NPCs to get a base set up someplace, very quickly, if they were diligent about creating their safety net in the bank

Can we have a voice of reason here?

Thanks!

No.

You think your crying now wait till the tribe you wiped wipes you.

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you can store gold and blueprints now underwater in lawless or on claim land not sure what this topic is about.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Nutcutt3r said:

Can we have a voice of reason here?

Thanks!

No.

You think your crying now wait till the tribe you wiped wipes you.

 

It's YOU'RE.  Want to be taken seriously, learn the language.

 

Second, I am not crying.  I am not even playing Atlas right now.  I don't quit because of a wipe.  But I have seen groups lose many members after a wipe.  These survival games always start off with a lot of people, but very quickly, the numbers dwindle.  As groups get wiped, they lose members.  One of the biggest issues is the tames.  You seriously don't think people quit after spending months getting a breeding set of tames that are great, only to lose them and have to start over?  It takes a very long time to breed, and capture the stats you are looking for.  So some guy has a breeding pair that is phenomenal, that took him 3 months to create, and in minutes, somebody destroys his work, and you think he's just going to start all over?  Some might, but many don't.  How many are even playing Atlas right now?  Every survival game I go onto, it is a struggle to find people even playing.  I wonder why?

 

If you were trying to be the voice of reason, you failed...hard.

Edited by Captain Jack Shadow

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Wiping is the problem, yes, we all know that...

But your QoL wishlist is not stopping it...

People will still leave after a wipe... why bother taking out your tames and gold out of a bank to start over if you only get wiped again...?

The problem is there is almost no means to protect your stuff against the OP cannon PC vs NPC, so no offline protection you can set up; the OP tames that make no sense but in ARK...

If people would be able to build protection that actually work and not just cost many hours to build to get wasted in one. If attacking someone would cost equal or more than the defender. Than people could work towards a secured base, than people would not so often and easy attack such a base and just wipe it, than people would not “need“ a bank and leave anyway...

If you can build a base that is actually able to be save from attack and you find out you did not a good job designing it, would you leave or try again from what you learned?

If you find out there is no way to build such a base and you have no influence on loosing your base and stuff every time a bear cannon comes by, would you leave?

Most do...

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Atlas players gained and lost.

-36,289......January, February, and March.

+2,707......April

-2,920......May, June and July 

 

So let's ignore the first three months.  People left for many reasons at that time, but of course, the biggest reason, in the first month, was server stability, but after that, it was mostly the offline sinking of ships.  Yeah, it seems people don't actually like losing what they work for.  But they really hated it when there was nothing they could do about it.

 

So in April, we got 2700 back.  But since then, we have lost that, plus 200.

 

I would rather try to find ways to make the game more interesting, and fun, such that we not only don't lose more players, we gain players back.

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12 minutes ago, Sheepshooter said:

Wiping is the problem, yes, we all know that...

But your QoL wishlist is not stopping it...

People will still leave after a wipe... why bother taking out your tames and gold out of a bank to start over if you only get wiped again...?

The problem is there is almost no means to protect your stuff against the OP cannon PC vs NPC, so no offline protection you can set up; the OP tames that make no sense but in ARK...

If people would be able to build protection that actually work and not just cost many hours to build to get wasted in one. If attacking someone would cost equal or more than the defender. Than people could work towards a secured base, than people would not so often and easy attack such a base and just wipe it, than people would not “need“ a bank and leave anyway...

If you can build a base that is actually able to be save from attack and you find out you did not a good job designing it, would you leave or try again from what you learned?

If you find out there is no way to build such a base and you have no influence on loosing your base and stuff every time a bear cannon comes by, would you leave?

Most do...

I think your ideas, combined with mine, would make the game thrive.  Simple fact...people want to fight with their ships, not worry about their bases.  I will never understand why they don't create a footprint, like with the old claim flags, that limit the area that a company can build in.  Then make bases nearly indestructible, and or give very powerful means to protect.  But in some way, get people to have to store a lot of their valuables in the central bank, which creates PvP zones around the freeport grids.  Reduce fighting over bases, and increase fighting from ships.  That is what will make this game thrive.  I remember Jat saying they wanted to get out from under the shadow of ARK, but then they basically recreate the play style of ARK by making everyone worry so much about their bases defense, just like in ARK.

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12 minutes ago, Captain Jack Shadow said:

I think your ideas, combined with mine, would make the game thrive.  Simple fact...people want to fight with their ships, not worry about their bases.  I will never understand why they don't create a footprint, like with the old claim flags, that limit the area that a company can build in.

Like I said in my Nations post; we need a place to store our personal belongings to keep them safe from company wars.

I'd be on PvP instead of PvE if I knew my tames and my trading ships would be okay. I could care less about anything else I have in this game even my land is not that  important.

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2 minutes ago, PeglegTheAngry said:

Like I said in my Nations post; we need a place to store our personal belongings to keep them safe from company wars.

I'd be on PvP instead of PvE if I knew my tames and my trading ships would be okay. I could care less about anything else I have in this game even my land is not that  important.

You have to have some skin in the game.  I am trying to think of ways for that to be, but at the same time, make it such that even when you lose some stuff, it's not the end of the world.  Look at it like this.  You work for 3 months to create a great pair of breeding bears.  You go camping with your family for the weekend, only to come back and find that your base was wiped, and your bears are now gone.  You have to start over.

With my idea, your breeding bears are never at risk, but their babies are.  You have to get them from the freeport, to home.  You WILL lose some of them.  Somebody will attack, and sink you, and you will lose those bears...but it's not the end of the world.  You still have your breeding pair.  You can still make more of those awesome bears.

 

With the gold, maps, and BPs, it's the same thing.  If they created an incentive for you to keep them stored there, it would serve the same purpose.  You could have several hundred maps in the bank, and they don't decay there, so you can let them build up, and then pull out just the maps for a specific set of grids.  But, you risk losing those maps when you pull them out and put them on your ships.  It will suck to lose some of them, but you don't lose all your maps.  You aren't set back to zero.

Same for gold, and same for BPs.  Maybe the BPs could get a decay timer also, to incentivize putting them in the bank.

Gold, you would get some interest, thus incentive to store it there.  You will lose some, when somebody sinks your ship, but you aren't set back to zero.

 

People cry about being retaliated against.  Well boo hoo..that's what's supposed to happen in games.  So what...if you wipe somebody and a week later, they wipe you, so what.  It's a game.  That's actually healthy for games, because nobody sticks around to be somebody else's punching bag.  The best games have the average player experiencing a 1 to 1 success to failure ratio.  This keeps the majority logging in...coming back for more.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Captain Jack Shadow said:

People cry about being retaliated against.  Well boo hoo..that's what's supposed to happen in games.  So what...if you wipe somebody and a week later, they wipe you, so what.  It's a game.  That's actually healthy for games, because nobody sticks around to be somebody else's punching bag.  The best games have the average player experiencing a 1 to 1 success to failure ratio.  This keeps the majority logging in...coming back for more.

 

Edited by PeglegTheAngry

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Last 30 days.  

Rust...64,323

Atlas...2,815

 

Clearly Rust is doing something right, and Atlas is doing something wrong.

I suspect that Rust has more balance in that while you can wipe somebody, it's not nearly as difficult for them to get back on their feet.  You don't tame and breed creatures, right?  I haven't actually played Rust, but I have watched some of HOD's videos, and I did see huge differences.  For one, single players are able to find success...huge success.  The videos I watched, there weren't huge megas.  Small groups of 3 or 4 max.  I do not know whether there is a clan member limit.

What I did see is that raiding was very easy for a single person to accomplish.  And getting back on their feet seemed a quick process.  No blueprints to farm again.  No tames or NPCs to farm again.  No treasure maps to farm.   No having to travel across a map that can take you several hours to do, with a return trip to your base.

In short, they are two very different games, but what that video highlights, is that there is a huge amount of variation in what happens in Rust, while what happens in Atlas is highly predictable.  Frankly, I think the huge player companies, and the huge bases is partly what causes that.  It is far more complicated to raid in Atlas.  So you don't have those unique 1 v 1 encounters like you do in Rust.  It's predictable.  Huge group will attack, and you won't have nearly enough online to defend.  You lost a crap ton of stuff, and have to rebuild.  Less PvPing and more PvE smashing rocks and trees.

   

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7 minutes ago, Captain Jack Shadow said:
   

Clearly Rust is doing something right, and Atlas is doing something wrong.

I suspect that Rust has more balance in that while you can wipe somebody, it's not nearly as difficult for them to get back on their feet.  You don't tame and breed creatures, right?  I haven't actually played Rust, but I have watched some of HOD's videos, and I did see huge differences.  For one, single players are able to find success...huge success.  The videos I watched, there weren't huge megas.  Small groups of 3 or 4 max.  I do not know whether there is a clan member limit. 

 

   

Nope. Rust is even less balanced to wipe someone than Atlas. Rust is SUPER easy to wipe someone, Atlas actually has some time commitment and a HELL of a lot more risk.

Single players can find big success in Atlas too, there's nothing like piggy backing off a huge company that has no idea you have been stealing their stuff for DAYS.

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27 minutes ago, PeglegTheAngry said:

Nope. Rust is even less balanced to wipe someone than Atlas. Rust is SUPER easy to wipe someone, Atlas actually has some time commitment and a HELL of a lot more risk.
 

That's the point I was making.  Atlas takes a lot more of a commitment to raid, but you have Megas that can do it, pretty much when they want.

Rust, it is easy to wipe somebody.  That's the point I was making.  Easy to get back on your feet too.  You don't have to spend massive amounts of time recreating bears, BP ships, etc...  So you get wiped...that sucks...but you can rebuild in a short period of time.  And you aren't one man going against 50, or 250 because they are:
Company X
Company X Blue
Company X Red
Company X Violet
Company X Gold
Company X Silver
Etc...

 

My problem with the game was that you spent far more time on land, building bases, gathering materials, taming, breeding, etc., and less time pirating.  And then add in that people would just popcorn their good stuff, so you couldn't have it.  Made pirating pretty much pointless.

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Rust has "Zerg" clans like DMG that run 30-80 strong... on 275 person servers.

But yeah, I get what you are saying now and I agree.... we really need some sort of stash system. Nothing dumb like cryo or ships in a bottle though.

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Posted (edited)

For me being wiped was not what stopped me playing, what stopped me playing was the sheer amount of time required to do anything. Having a full time job and enjoying atlas in a pvp environment is simply not possible, its not a game you can log into for half and hour to an hour and expect to get anything done of any substance.

Just sailing to the freeport and back for crew can take an hour.

Edited by Badkebab

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Posted (edited)

I can see it now though, War time.. everyone stashes the good stuff so if they lose the winner gets nothing, they don't even have to popcorn.

Having invincible builds, fine until they start using that to block people in all over the place with no way to destroy things.

A lot of safe guards to personal play as well comes with more things the griefers and cheese masters  will use to still make your time spent not worth it 😛

People suck.. unless you don't, then yer all good and fine with me. lol

Edited by Liatni

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Posted (edited)

Then again, I am all for monthly/bi monthly wipes of Atlas. Not a place you are suppose to build and stay forever but, a place you are suppose to build up, go out and conquer. If there was a time limit, people would have goals to "win" by the end time, they would not be building and breeding tons of ships and beast that sit around doing nothing for weeks(months if not attacked or decayed).. they would be focusing on offence and near the end,  you will have people using all they got to wipe others off the playing field..

That being said 🙂 having, some sorta of standing at the end would be nice. 

Hides, because the no wipers are going to start stomping.. lol. Just my opinion all, not saying you are wrong with yours. 🙂

Edit to say, ON the PVP servers.. Pve.. let people build their dream vacation spa. and let it set for months along with the limit cap of tames and ships until they get bored and someone else can swoop into the spot 😛

 

Edited by Liatni

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again, your stuff would be save in your base, if it would be on equal footing as the attacker...
If a group comes by and has to loose many tames and equipment to overpower your defenses, would you be ok if they wipe you, as you had a chance to survive while they have lost more over all than they gained from destroying you...?
would they even attack you if it was not worth it and the predicted cost too high...?

that is a fair game...
that is the point at which your stuff is relatively save...

right now nothing is save...
the cost of wiping you is near zero...
your only real protection is for you to wipe the enemy first and out of the game never to return...
may the last man standing please not forget to switch the server off, thank you! - signed your Devs

you cannot compare Atlas to Rust... Atlas has long term contend for which the progress cannot be lost on a daily, weekly, or monthly basis, because it takes longer than that to get the achievement...
If you get put back on square one too easy all the time, with no solution against it, you loose out on most of the contend in the game... why continue to play? a question all that have left the game answered...

so...
FIX THE DAMN LAND PVP !

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On 8/5/2019 at 9:37 PM, Captain Jack Shadow said:

 

If you were trying to be the voice of reason, you failed...hard.

I know the language just fine, let me know if I spelled derp wrong.

For your effort you just won a Super Bowel Platter, Mavis.

funny-spelling-mistakes-on-signs-Next-St

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I do agree on one thing. Would like to see the game progress and aim for a game where, you would see MORE Naval battles than, land raids 🙂 However they end up doing it.

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Posted (edited)

I actually like your suggestions, a bank and a stable would protect a lot of our stuff in case of a wipe.

Personally, I am not a fan of PVP. One thing I wised existed in this game is actual NPC merchant ships and NPC merchant towns outside of freeports. Give us PVE players some actual stuff we can raid (not ghosts, this is a pirate game after all, not a ghostbusters ship/home construction sim).  We should also be allowed to capture merchant ships once we've wiped out their crew so we can refit them in our bases. Also, I wish we could also have NPC raiders events that pop in once or twice a week so that there would be some logic in building solid base defenses within the PVE game. Right now, we just build huge bases with zero thought of defense (we don't even build beyond wooden structures). At least Ark had the periodical angry dino running into your base. Atlas has zero reason to build any form of defense and the lack of base threats removes a big chunk of the game from being experienced by the PVE players. With the threat of  NPC raiders, bases could get destroyed, defenses are lost (and need improving and upgrading), we would put thought on putting up defenses, locations would be selected for defensiblity and paying taxes so that you can live within the defenses of a larger and more powerful company would actually be worth it.

I know these things would probably never happen but one can wish.

Edited by Nibedicus

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